post-Dawntrail even story dungeons are harder and more punishing to heal than ever

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Originally Posted by Granis

melees have more hp than healers and casters do, and don't melees specifically have role actions or job abilities that help them move around or stay alive that close to a boss?

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No, Melee DPS are not special, the mitigation they have is usually used for raidwides and movement skills are for quick alignment to continue DPS. Also, as a SGE, you have Icarus, the only healer to have a gap closer in EW.

We're really trying to help you here without passing judgement, but your refusal to even remotely try any suggestion is frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Granis

melees have more hp than healers and casters do, and don't melees specifically have role actions or job abilities that help them move around or stay alive that close to a boss?

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Tell me, how much more HP do melees have.

Alright, I have read the whole thing, and I haven't seen anyone offer it so here I go.


I am a tank and I will get you through this dungeon.

Just let me know when you are available, and we can travel to Shadow DC and group up.

I promise that I will not judge your gameplay or the amount of tries it takes.
If anyone complains in the dungeon, with 2 people we are enough to votekick them.

The only thing I want in return, is your promise to follow me during the bossfights.
When I move for mechanics, you follow. Even it means you lose uptime.

How does this sound? You up for it?

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Originally Posted by Solragor

offer

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I wanted to offer too but I don't have a character in EU, so thanks for offering to help.

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Originally Posted by Granis

it exists enough for a stalker to gloat on the comments of that youtube video about stalking me and making fun of my bad performance and how many wipes it took my learning group to help me get what few clears i got...

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OP how about try not to argue with people and reply to the ones that are helping you?

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Alright fair enough. I just watched your video again and here is your recipe for success.

1. Go into Character Configuration -> Control Settings -> Character -> Battle Effect Settings and turn Party/Other to Limited or Off. This is so you can clearly see his arm being raised which I noticed was covered by some spell effects at one point.

2. When the two poison blobs appear stop everything you're doing and focus on dodging the AOEs. Your NPC allies will be fine. Stand toward the center of the room and look directly at his arms. As soon as you see one raise, run to the opposite side. As soon as the AOEs go off, move back to the middle of the room and watch his arms again. Again, do not cast anything while you're learning this part. Do not run in the path of the two original poison puddles, stand either behind or in front of them.

Do not worry about your damage. You're in a trust so nobody is there to judge how much damage you're doing or your uptime. Focus on dodging mechanics. Once you have them down and you're comfortable with them, you can start doing damage again. Don't forget that you have Sprint and Ikarus as well if you're a little slow.

3. This isn't absolutely necessary right now since you shouldn't be casting anything while learning how to move, but I recommend you rebind your keys so you're not clicking everything. I don't have an MMO mouse either. You don't need one to bind everything. You have 1-6 bound, but you can also use SHIFT + 1-6 and CTRL + 1-6. That's another 12 abilities you can have bound. Also, you can rebind the keys around WASD. I use FXR as well as the buttons on my regular G Pro mouse, plus variations with +SHIFT.

Give those things a shot and see if they help.

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They even put it in notes for you but you still manage to ignore them and continue your argument which is not the point you were trying to make.

Something I want to address that's recurring cuz I've also heard it for the spooky expert roulette dungeon and I'm so very happy about it cuz it changes the habits that people have been taking in normal content:

Why is uptime such a big issue in story/normal dungeons? There's no enrage, you don't have to meet a DPS check, why on earth would you focus on uptime in this kind of content

You can do it...but in that case all that Dawntrail MSQ ask for you is to up your observation and reaction skills

and if you can't do that, then detaching yourself from the boss or stopping all your casting is OKAY, just chill, you do not need 100% uptime as a healer to clear the boss

Its okay if you miss a cast of your DPS GCD to move to the correct side

Its okay if you cant autopilot right-left-right-left anymore and have to actually move your camera to look at the boss' feet to decide where its safe that way you don't snooze like in previous expansions

and last but not least, as a healer don't put extra stress on yourself, its okay to use a tetragrammaton, a lustrate, a druo/taurochole or an essential dignity and any other oGCD tool that lets YOU, the healer, be able to move and keep yourself safe. it doesn't matter that the poison tick is potent like a savage one THEY made the mistake of walking into that puddle and are being punished for it, you can do your best to keep them alive but if they die to the tick its ultimately their fault, just rez them when you can

The DPS will learn not to walk into those puddles next time, more than being cruel to healers this is more a learning lesson to the DPS greed I feel like

It's a problem of mastering the controls of the game. This is said without any animosity, but it makes the complaint illegitimate. It's like asking people to remove stair because you suffer from a light limp. If you're having trouble pressing a button while moving, then you need to rethink the way you play (your shortcuts are obviously not optimised enough); it's also abnormal that you're having trouble ‘finding a button’. It should become automatic after a while.

Re-do all your binds buddy, mouseclicking isn't optimized.

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

Why is uptime such a big issue in story/normal dungeons? There's no enrage, you don't have to meet a DPS check, why on earth would you focus on uptime in this kind of content

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If you do it wrong in easy content, you will certainly do it wrong in hard content.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

If you do it wrong in easy content, you will certainly do it wrong in hard content.

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No, because they have different mechanics in hard content.
It's not worth learning to save the uptime in normal dungeons and then learning them again in hard content.
If it was trials then maybe, since they will have similar mechanics invovled, but for MSQ dungeons it's not that important

If you go to the north of the arena behind where the boss is during that mechanic it's far easier. There's only one aoe per side there as far as I can tell.

Yeah, I could see the point of making a good habit of ABC (Always Be Casting) for Healer, even if it's in MSQ dungeons.
But before ABC, a good habit of "Staying Alive" should be a priority.

There's no point of keeping "uptime" if you die. When a healer dies, it could really jeopardize the party in harder content a lot more then when a healer cancelled a cast because they need to move out of AoEs.

I wanna highlight a comment OP made on the youtube video:

https://puu.sh/KbeVk/4169fba154.png

Let me paint you a picture OP:

http://puu.sh/Kbf13/23594fbe92.png

You are convinced that your best course of action is to stay in what I call the poison zone (the zone where you get poisoned). Despite numerous failed attempts of clearing the fight you are not willing to give up the poison zone because of you think there is no other way to get across the arena still be in phlegma range.

However!

You are neglecting the entire rest of the arena which I have neatly categorized as Uptime zone and no uptime zone. In these areas you can cross over without touching the puddles. As a special help i have included what I call The Super Zone. If you restrict your movement to only this zone you will be able to hit your phlegmas and dodge the poison spills with the least amount of movement. I hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

If you do it wrong in easy content, you will certainly do it wrong in hard content.

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Well, at least according to the OP, this can no longer be considered easy content.

That said, the problem here is the mindset, you can try your best to keep uptime in this kind of content with the goal to do it in harder content, but having some awareness of the difficulty spike should make you quickly change your mind into "Ok maybe I should focus on keeping everyone and myself alive" instead of considering it a problem of overtuning, just because you can't do your dummy rotation anymore

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Originally Posted by DKMR

No, because they have different mechanics in hard content.

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i am not talking about mechanics, it is about playing your job properly at all times without thinking about it, "gaining muscle memory", later when it comes to hard fight you can think about optimization.

I give you an example, i see a lot of Ninja players using Doton on Bosses, Doton is an AOE ability that clealy does less damage than Raiton (Raiton = 740 , Doton = 560 potency), Doton takes a second longer to cast than raiton and you also don't get a Raiju from using it, yet people still use Doton on single enemies.

For a while now when ever i see a Ninja use Doton on a Boss, i deliberately Pull the Boss out of it in the hope they learn something from it, i have tried countless of times to tell them in chat to not use Doton on bosses and often get the response "Why do you care, it doesnt matter"

>starts healing strike, because supposedly you don't need healers dt do content
>dt has harsher healing checks than previous pieces of content
>"help, i didn't know my actions had consequences"

yeah, there was that "we don't have attack rotation" argument but that one of the finer points of the strike is that if they don't have that then healing itself should be in demand to compensate, healers should be pressing their heal buttons and actually have their healing be needed even if no one is failing mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Lux0k

>starts healing strike, because supposedly you don't need healers dt do content
>dt has harsher healing checks than previous pieces of content
>"help, i didn't know my actions had consequences"

yeah, there was that "we don't have attack rotation" argument but that one of the finer points of the strike is that if they don't have that then healing itself should be in demand to compensate, healers should be pressing their heal buttons and actually have their healing be needed even if no one is failing mechanics.

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Why would you ever think OP is a striker?

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Originally Posted by Arohk

i am not talking about mechanics, it is about playing your job properly at all times without thinking about it, "gaining muscle memory", later when it comes to hard fight you can think about optimization.

I give you an example, i see a lot of Ninja players using Doton on Bosses, Doton is an AOE ability that clealy does less damage than Raiton (Raiton = 740 , Doton = 560 potency), Doton takes a second longer to cast than raiton and you also don't get a Raiju from using it, yet people still use Doton on single enemies.

For a while now when ever i see a Ninja use Doton on a Boss, i deliberately Pull the Boss out of it in the hope they learn something from it, i have tried countless of times to tell them in chat to not use Doton on bosses and often get the response "Why do you care, it doesnt matter"

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I think at this point maybe you can recommend them before hand and see if they want to accept you to teach them, but if they don't care then they don't care, really no use trying to force someone to learn something that would benefit them.

OP, I know you've had a lot of vitriol hurled at you and I get that this has all been a disheartening experience. After all, I don't know you or what you're going through in your life. I would like to believe that you are sincere and genuine about your struggles, even if much of it perplexes me.

But most of all I don't understand your hangup about having to maximise uptime in a story dungeon - including on runs where you're using NPCs. Who exactly is here to judge and berate you for not optimally squeezing in one last Phlegma with microseconds to spare before an AoE puddle explodes beneath your feet? Who cares if your Phlegma overcaps by like a few seconds? The NPCs will obviously not care, and no reasonable Duty Finder group will be parsing you or get on your back about it unless you're literally just standing there semi-AFK. You're so hung up on your perceived shortcomings based on past harder Endwalker content that you've needlessly brought this mentality over to a story dungeon to the complete detriment of your ability to focus on a boss's telegraphs and to learn how to adapt and respond to what is essentially a recycled mechanic. Walk before you can run. Get familiar with the basics of the fight first, THEN think about optimisation.

You talk about focusing on your SGE "rotation" when all that amounts to is keeping your Eukrasian Dosis DoT up, spam Dosis III and pop buttons like Phlegma and Psyche when they're available, with Toxikon for mobility. You can afford to take your eyes off your hotbars for a moment and just mash Dosis III while you watch out for the boss is about to do next. Your GCD shield casts are not part of your "rotation"; they're things you proactively throw out in anticipation of an incoming mechanic, and even then your first resort should be your oGCDs like Physis and Kerachole. You needlessly spent a second popping Eukrasia in one instance while trying to slowly amble your way out of danger when you could have thrown a quick Taurochole on yourself instead. It may be worth a review of the fundamentals of SGE and your setup, because there's no reason to devote so much time to staring at your hotbars as though you're a complete novice to the job.

You've had a lot of tips about how to handle this particular boss fight, so I don't presently feel any need to regurgitate a lot of what is already said. No matter how you approach it next (get a premade? Take a short break first to clear your mind?) I wish you the best of luck for it and for the future encounters to come.

Healer Main here and Sage.

Psysis + Kerachole will give you some good instant Regen and Miti.

Haima yourself if you're that worried which is another instant cast.

You also have Holos which is another incredibly potent instant cast.

Just stand on the boss, watch the arms and move to the other side of the arena, stop worrying about uptime or overcapping, just watch when he raises his fist and move left and right accordingly. That's it.

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Originally Posted by Linnaete

But most of all I don't understand your hangup about having to maximise uptime in a story dungeon - including on runs where you're using NPCs.

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I'm going to highlight this part of the post again for the OP, it is okay as a healer to not have perfect uptime, it is fine, your main goal when you go to a dungeon is to get through it

Thinking that uptime is mandatory is putting you through additional unnecessary stress, druochole, taurochole, physis and holos as needed, so you can be moving at all times to get to the correct side

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Originally Posted by Linnaete

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thank you for being somewhat mroe reasonable than the people who have been so mean and judgemental... i've only been focusing on optimizing and stuff because i want to be better prepared for when i finish the msq because i don't want to "miss out" on endgame like i did in endwalker due to struggling making grouping for the harder stuff more difficult...I just.... want to be better prepared for the actual endgame this time... and i feel like if i can't even get good results in xivanalysis in a dungeon... what possible hope do i have to not miss out or not be allowed to take part in endgame again?

What good is it to clear a dungeon if I didn't "really" clear it because my uptime was low and i didn't pull my weight? these are the best ways i can describe my fears, especially given that dungeons are a lot harder than they were in the previous expansion.

maybe i just have a skewed sense of priorities and i'll just keep what you said in mind after I.... step away from thes discussion to cool my head... i deleted the unlisted video because the harassment was getting too bad...

The game is too hard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzOLJo8rxq4

(Dude is literally doing nothing and still killing it lmao)

I will very much disagree with healers not standing close to boss. I play this game as healer on savage and ultimate level. I always stick to the boss because that way the aoe heals reach everyone including the tank and meele players. Usually ranged players also stick close to boss because it is understood that healers have range on aoe heals and if you are very far out, you might miss the heals. Only reason to go that far out is for spread mechanics, that's really it.

Healers are being required to heal in normal content for the first time in a couple of years. It's understandable that they're surprised and uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by Granis

thank you for being somewhat mroe reasonable than the people who have been so mean and judgemental... i've only been focusing on optimizing and stuff because i want to be better prepared for when i finish the msq because i don't want to "miss out" on endgame like i did in endwalker due to struggling making grouping for the harder stuff more difficult...I just.... want to be better prepared for the actual endgame this time... and i feel like if i can't even get good results in xivanalysis in a dungeon... what possible hope do i have to not miss out or not be allowed to take part in endgame again?

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I just don't think it's worth being so results-driven in a story dungeon when the objective is simply to clear it and move on & occasionally return to it while levelling another job or on roulette.

If you want to touch endgame content, you need to address how you mentally approach fights and not allow the ghosts of past performance weigh you down. Perhaps this level 99 dungeon and first boss can be a good mental challenge to overcome and that way you slowly claw back some confidence. Go in to an unfamiliar fight with the understanding that no one will ever expect you to be perfect at it. You will make mistakes in an unfamiliar fight. That's just how things naturally are. A boss will catch you off guard and you use that opportunity to learn from it and better anticipate for next time. The more you do it, the more familiar you are with a fight. And the more familiar you are with it, the more proactive you can be in knowing when to throw a shield up first, what the boss is about to do next according to its cast bar, and when to move.

All it requires is that you are willing and able to recognise how to address and amend your mistakes. If you can get into that more reasonable mindset instead of the more accelerationist "I must make maximum use of my uptime now no matter the cost" you will have a much better time.

You can apply that to endgame raids. It's why day 1 Arcadion normal raids were so much fun. Bosses caught people out with new twists on familiar mechanics. I must have been an absolute wreck when it came to optimisation. Goodness knows how much I overhealed just on the safe side instead of using those GCDs and MP on more Fall Malefic casts. I must have taken a dirt nap a good half a dozen times. I wasn't concerned about my uptime and how best I used it; I was concerned about trying to pick up on boss mechanics and keeping myself and people alive, and I loved it.

I don't believe you're a lost cause. I think you can do it. It's just that you're not currently in the right state of mind which adversely impacts your approach and performance. It's causing you to hyper-focus on the wrong things and cause you to make mistakes that most people likely wouldn't make. Take the time you need, and if need be, look over footage of other healers attempting this boss to help illustrate how you could improve and adapt here.

The fundamental issue you're running into is inflexibility. You've created certain rules for yourself that you've decided you must follow at all times, even when it's to your detriment.

The people offering you advice aren't speculating on what *might* work. They're people who have killed the boss with no trouble.

Lots of Sages kill this boss every day. They do it by not running through poison. I would personally start by trying a strategy of not running through the poison. Even if you try it and don't kill the boss right away, I promise this first step will be necessary for you to get this kill.

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Originally Posted by Granis

thank you for being somewhat mroe reasonable than the people who have been so mean and judgemental... i've only been focusing on optimizing and stuff because i want to be better prepared for when i finish the msq because i don't want to "miss out" on endgame like i did in endwalker due to struggling making grouping for the harder stuff more difficult...I just.... want to be better prepared for the actual endgame this time... and i feel like if i can't even get good results in xivanalysis in a dungeon... what possible hope do i have to not miss out or not be allowed to take part in endgame again?

What good is it to clear a dungeon if I didn't "really" clear it because my uptime was low and i didn't pull my weight? these are the best ways i can describe my fears, especially given that dungeons are a lot harder than they were in the previous expansion.

maybe i just have a skewed sense of priorities and i'll just keep what you said in mind after I.... step away from thes discussion to cool my head... i deleted the unlisted video because the harassment was getting too bad...

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I can relate with you due to the fact that I was interested in savage before I started playing this game, along with what people above me have said you also need a good deal of patience.

I started playing this game during Creator, the last raid tier of Heavensward.
At the time I was a DPS so the context might not be exactly the same but when I reached the endgame and finally found a group to do savage with, I was awful at the game.

I was awful at DPSing I was getting hit by mechanics, I was dying, I perpetuated the dragoon floor tank meme from back then, but I still persevered in finding groups, despite my poor performances, because the endgame was really what interested me back then I did not want to miss out.

I can assure you that it's only during the middle of stormblood, almost a year later that I started being comfortable with savage, despite doing my rotations fine in dungeons.

My point is you might be setting up these standards for yourself this high before the endgame to prepare but the best place to get better at savage is in savage. Because even while in savage you will still be a work in progress, you'll still be getting better there despite any preparation you make in dungeons and that is okay, so please please just chill in dungeon content

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Originally Posted by Solragor

Alright, I have read the whole thing, and I haven't seen anyone offer it so here I go.


I am a tank and I will get you through this dungeon.

Just let me know when you are available, and we can travel to Shadow DC and group up.

I promise that I will not judge your gameplay or the amount of tries it takes.
If anyone complains in the dungeon, with 2 people we are enough to votekick them.

The only thing I want in return, is your promise to follow me during the bossfights.
When I move for mechanics, you follow. Even it means you lose uptime.

How does this sound? You up for it?

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bumping because it may have been missed. The offer is very much still on the table

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Originally Posted by Granis

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When healers are looking to optimize, they think of the following things (not an exhaustive list):
- What and when is the next mechanic going to happen so I can start moving towards a position where I can resolve it with minimal movement, thus granting me higher uptime?
- Related to point 1, how much damage is going to happen so what button am I going to press? Can I get away with heal over time?
- Related to point 1, how much movement is needed to successfully resolve the mechanic? I'm not going to move more than I would need to. Maybe I'll need to save a resource for it such as Swiftcast, Lilies, Lightspeed, etc.

Healers do not really heal reactively, they plan the fight out looking into the near-future. Being comfortable leaving people at 10% HP and letting them regen up because they know there's no further damage. That kind of thing.

You are far from the level to begin thinking about optimization, because you simply do not understand the fight, or the game in general to be able to optimize. You don't seem to recognize how poor you position (standing next to the static poison puddles and moving through them..) and how much wasted movement you have.

Optimization is reliant on knowledge of how the fight works, how your class works, where your buttons are, how the classes in your party work, and minimizing movement.

You are not at the level to begin thinking of endgame content or optimization - Try beating the boss first without anyone dying.

No one tries to optimize a fight or section of fight they don't understand fully, and if you're the type of player in prog that lets people die or die themselves trying to "optimize" when you haven't even finished progging that section, you would be someone that no one would want in a group.


Think of it from another perspective: Your goal as a healer is to resolve mechanics successfully with as minimal of movement as possible, that way you are always in a position to HEAL if the need arises when others mess up. If you don't need to heal, then you do damage instead.

This game is not difficult, its your mindset and way you approach the content that is making it difficult.

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Originally Posted by Jinglypockets

The fundamental issue you're running into is inflexibility. You've created certain rules for yourself that you've decided you must follow at all times, even when it's to your detriment.

The people offering you advice aren't speculating on what *might* work. They're people who have killed the boss with no trouble.

Lots of Sages kill this boss every day. They do it by not running through poison. I would personally start by trying a strategy of not running through the poison. Even if you try it and don't kill the boss right away, I promise this first step will be necessary for you to get this kill.

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Very well put. It's that inflexibility that is causing the problems in this dungeon and it's the same inflexibility that has cause OP to get stuck on savage bosses in endwalker. Unless they manage to overcome that I dont see good chances of having fun in harder content.

Here is a video of me beating that boss using only left click and right click: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3tLJj2zKqw

It really is not hard, you just have to look at the boss during Vasoconstrictor, and reset to the middle after every dodge.
Keeping casting uptime during it is hard, but if it's too hard for you, you can simply not do it. Not casting Dosis is less of a DPS loss than wiping.

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Originally Posted by Granis

thank you for being somewhat mroe reasonable than the people who have been so mean and judgemental... i've only been focusing on optimizing and stuff because i want to be better prepared for when i finish the msq because i don't want to "miss out" on endgame like i did in endwalker due to struggling making grouping for the harder stuff more difficult...I just.... want to be better prepared for the actual endgame this time... and i feel like if i can't even get good results in xivanalysis in a dungeon... what possible hope do i have to not miss out or not be allowed to take part in endgame again?

What good is it to clear a dungeon if I didn't "really" clear it because my uptime was low and i didn't pull my weight? these are the best ways i can describe my fears, especially given that dungeons are a lot harder than they were in the previous expansion.

maybe i just have a skewed sense of priorities and i'll just keep what you said in mind after I.... step away from thes discussion to cool my head... i deleted the unlisted video because the harassment was getting too bad...

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I'm not trying to attack you for this and I'm trying to come off as coaching/advice so I apologize if this reads too critical.

You need to better your positioning and mechanic reading habits before you look at full uptime. You're trying to run before you can walk. Surviving is the first goal before you survive while doing respectable damage.

You should start by making it a goal to just get through the fight while trimming down how many times you get hit until that is at 0. Once you're there then you can start looking at how to fit your casts around the required movement. If your positioning and mechanic reaction times are sloppy then your GCD rolling is going to be sloppy.

As you do this for this dungeon and others, you should begin to pick up on tendencies in the mechanics. IE boss winding up his left arm means he's hitting that side of the arena, things on the ground likely explode in circles, etc.

Remember, you can start moving at 0.3x of the cast time remaining (slidecasting) as well.

It's ok to fail, but you need to be willing to look at past mistakes and ask what you did and adjust for the next attempt rather than just trying the same thing over and over. Be thoughtful of everything you stand in, everything that hits you, etc. Be willing to experiment and acknowledge that the experiment went wrong when it ends with you getting hit or dying.

If you can't tell why you're taking too much damage, or getting hit by a mechanic, then going through content where individual mistake communication and correction is stressed even more with ex trials/savage/ultimate is going to be even harder on you. That's the skill I see a lot of end game raid groups across the games I play struggle with a lot and is the cause of friction during progression.

After taking a closer look, I'm now convinced you're sincere. I'm sorry, and I want to help.

I hope this comes through with the constructive spirit it's intended with. You say you want to get into more serious content. This is how.

Encounter-specific advice:
1. A lot of people have told you to stand under the boss. This is good advice. Personally, though, I find healing this fight to be a lot more comfortable at range because I prefer the camera angle as comfort thing (not because melee is more dangerous -- it isn't). Do what works for you. The way you've been doing it is not working for you -- it's getting you killed -- so you need to adapt.
2. Don't rely on the yellow circles. Focus on the boss' arms. Whichever arm he raises is the side that's going to explode.
3. After the AOEs go off, reset back to the middle and watch the boss' arms. When his arm goes up, move immediately. Don't finish your cast. Just move.
5. There's never a reason to run through the poison bubbles.

Mentality:
Shift your mindset away from, "This is too hard," and toward, "I need to adapt to overcome this challenge."

The best players are deliberate about improving. They take whatever advantages they can find. Things like analyzing top players, analyzing their own play, taking advice, and deliberate practice. They work, they adapt, and they have a problem-solving mentality. When they're struggling, they don't complain that it too hard. They find things they can control and work on doing them better.

I am not a great player. I have slow reactions, I can't multitask effectively, and I get overwhelmed by visual noise. I'm still able to clear difficult content because I'm comfortable with failure as a teacher, I take and implement advice, I'm realistic about my weaknesses, and I put in effort toward improving and compensating for them.

Your mentality toward these things is your biggest hurdle by far.


Mechanics first:
Your focus on uptime is hurting your uptime. Your uptime is zero while you're dead. High uptime is a worthy goal, but the way you're doing it is counterproductive.

In a hardcore raid I used to run with, we used to do "Zero-DPS pulls" when we were struggling. These were pulls where nobody did their damage rotation. This was never going to kill the boss, but we did it so everyone could focus exclusively on the mechanics to become more familiar with them. When we went back to normal pulls, everyone handled the mechanics better and did more damage.

When people tell you to prioritize mechanics first, they're not saying your uptime doesn't matter. It does. They're saying it's impossible to have high uptime without good mechanics.

Your priority list should be:
1. Fight mechanics
2. Heal people who need it
3. Deal damage

Every player who is successful in high-end content understands and embraces this. If you're serious about breaking into endgame content, then embracing this is the only way forward.

Yeah, I literally get the good funny numbers without explicitly optimizing with my cohealer every raid tier that I'm able to play seriously. All of this is 100% true. Was when I played SCH, was when I played AST, is when I currently played SGE, presumably holds for WHM. Honestly, to a lesser extent even when I messed around a bit with being mediocre on EW BLM.

Uptime is secondary to understanding, because you can't understand how to get the uptime if you don't understand the mechanic.

You prog a fight 3 times. The first is to live. The second time is to loosely neaten up. The third time is to polish for enrage. In casual content, the latter two don't matter. And it's the latter two where uptime seriously comes into play. Once the party (myself included) starts consistently making it through a mechanic, that is when I start thinking about how to place my instant casts and how to use pre-moves to minimize downtime. That's when I start thinking about how to better shift tools around from prior mechanics in order to reduce (or even eliminate) GCD healing.

You're trying to polish something before you've even made it. The fundamentals, of which not dying is principle #0, will always matter more than the secondary stuff you keep talking about. You need to drop the ego and listen to the people here. We aren't the ones who can't clear the dungeon.

Keybinds are really a second or third-tier concern at this point, but I think you should seriously consider addressing them.

I've known a bunch of people who were able to click their abilities and still be very successful. It's still a disadvantage, but it can be done.

For whatever reason, I think the disadvantage is having a bigger effect on you that it does on others. Finding your abilities to click on them is slowing down your rotation and taking up way too much of your attention, which is making it harder for you to pay attention to fight mechanics.

It's not necessary for beating this fight, but my recommendation for your long-term success is that you keybind every ability you use regularly in a fight. 12345 is great, but QERFGZXCV are also right next to your hand at WASD.

If you're serious about getting into endgame content, just having a mindset of being willing to use keybinds would go a long way in proving (to yourself) that you're willing to do what it takes to get better.

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Originally Posted by Granis

thank you for being somewhat mroe reasonable than the people who have been so mean and judgemental... i've only been focusing on optimizing and stuff because i want to be better prepared for when i finish the msq because i don't want to "miss out" on endgame like i did in endwalker due to struggling making grouping for the harder stuff more difficult...I just.... want to be better prepared for the actual endgame this time... and i feel like if i can't even get good results in xivanalysis in a dungeon... what possible hope do i have to not miss out or not be allowed to take part in endgame again?

What good is it to clear a dungeon if I didn't "really" clear it because my uptime was low and i didn't pull my weight? these are the best ways i can describe my fears, especially given that dungeons are a lot harder than they were in the previous expansion.

maybe i just have a skewed sense of priorities and i'll just keep what you said in mind after I.... step away from thes discussion to cool my head... i deleted the unlisted video because the harassment was getting too bad...

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Unless you're aiming for world first savage raid clear, a clear is a clear, uptime doesn't matter.
As a healer, prioritize staying alive first. If you panicked and got taken down, the DPSes are next on the chopping block unless they play Summoner or Red Mage or the boss is near death. Uptime doesn't matter, and people won't even notice if you did less damage or overheal.
They have better things to do than to check the performance of the other three people in a main scenario dungeon.

And as a healer, don't put too much stock on statistics. A healer's worth isn't measured by the damage they dealt or the amount of healing they did. It will never be constant, since playing a healer will depend a lot on how the party is doing.
If the party is doing well, then your damage will go up since you'll have more chance to deal damage. If the party is not doing so hot, then you will need to forget dealing damage and focus on keeping everyone alive while also making sure you survive.
If a static refused you because you don't have "good result" in xivanalysis as a healer, just leave them, you dodged a toxic bullet.

it's fine, just play with the trusts

This seems to be very much a case of you trying to run before you can walk... or in this case, crawl. You need to learn how mechanics work and how to stay alive before you can even think about optimization.

The biggest DPS loss is being dead.

Well, Good. We needed this kind of struggle. Gives us healers a reason to be more then just being glare mages and press a few more buttons then usual.

if you want, i'll come to phantom and help you with the dungeons, either as tank or healer

Tbh, the dungeons don't feel that much more demanding. We're still outscaling them a week later. Did Alexandria again with IL 696 GNB, properly using mitigations felt completely optional. Even the current two post-story dungeons are getting out scaled rn. I'll probably be sleeping during them in a week. Shame really, the ever rising IL really breaks FF14's content across all expansions.