Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

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Originally Posted by Lyndina

or this game will bleed heavy player numbers.

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Wait for this to be called a "correction" and a "return to the normal", or "post expansion lull" or whatever else

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Why is the tribal lizard man wearing space marine armor square enix explain.
This isn't our vacation, it's Wuk Lamat's and we are her errand boy. Glad people can enjoy that, you'll make a perfect mindless drooling idiot fanboy whale.
Why is there uptown funky jazz in the wooden building tribal era dock town. Sounds like a bustling modern city music. Maybe japanese don't understand the american culture around jazz or the hispanic culture.
The first half of the story is omg food you love food right? Pretend you've never seen a taco before holy shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

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The good thing never stops. Even in the last area they still have that weird obsession with food.

The ending of the MSQ makes no sense if you think about it at all. You have an AI which downloads the memories of people, then it simulates mini AIs each with the memory of a dead person. I don't see how that's meant to preserve anyone, the real person is gone, and their soul energy was used to power the simulation. Then we go ahead and shut down the terminals to delete them, and everyone is getting emotional over these ChatGPTs. I feel like it would have been better if instead of AIs it actually was the souls of the dead there in that artificial afterlife. Then the whole preservation thing would have made sense and it wouldn't have made stopping Sphene's game of the Sims a complete non-debate. We're essentially just turning off a PC in the final area of the game, and I don't see any reason for that to have any kind of emotional weight.

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Originally Posted by dracosludge

Forcing me to play her just rubbed salt in the wound.

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Even as I stood on the sidelines watching that horrible RPG play-as fight, I was thinking, man, I will never get that housecat smell out of my hair now.

https://i.gyazo.com/700f17f619a1ec1b...4552585df8.jpg

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

The good thing never stops. Even in the last area they still have that weird obsession with food.

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Was the writer for the Zero patches the same person as for Dawntrail? I ask because that's when that food obsession started. That and the weird, out of place, Hildibrand comedy inserts. Now this stuff is all over the story. I actually like Hildi quests, but when they are in their own separate bubble. That stuff doesn't belong in the MSQ, it doesn't fit, it's completely unfunny when the right characters aren't present (and Wuk Lamat is NOT the right character for this comedy stuff). Makes me cringe so hard when the stupid sound effects start playing.

Dawntrail has been infuriating. Even when I first saw that the Scions were going to join us, I had an eyeroll moment. For a fresh start after Endwalker, why can't our WoL go on their own adventure (You know, as an Adventurer)? Wouldn't shelving these guys for one expansion give the writers a well-deserved break and avoid character bloat?

I actually enjoyed the first part of the MSQ, the rites, because of how everything was new. But even I have to admit that this 'adventure' has us holding Wuk Lamat's hand and telling her how good and special she is, and that her way is the best way. No lesson sticks because of their nigh immediate resolution that cheapens it significantly. Her ideal for Tural is never really challenged either because we were told at the beginning of the expansion that she was in the right since Peace was the only morally correct outcome.

Zoraal Ja was the one I was rooting for, truth be told, because I thought they would go somewhere I seldom see in stories: the pioneer, the eldest, the gifted child, that gets crushed under the weight of expectations placed on them while their younger siblings "have it easier". I had actual empathy for the guy, especially seeing as his own family held no love towards him. Heck even his own flesh-and-blood father seemed to favor the adopted children to him; how that must sting! But in the end, he's evil and must be put down.

I thought that showing all three Promises as having a valid point for the throne would be more interesting than having a clear Bad Guy. Wuk for Peace, Koana for Innovation and Zoraal for War and Expansionnism. The downsides being "Stagnation/apathy from peaceful times", "loss of traditions from technologies" and "suffering from war". You know, nuances and complexities worthy of a political arc. Plus didn't we learn in one expansion that Freedom is paid for in blood? They could've played with that too by having Zoraal Ja call out the cost of Wuk's Peace.

As for Tural, it feels much too squeaky clean. Tuliyolall especially is peaceful, happy, and there's nothing wrong with it. By contrast, Limsa is a den of pirates where one's freedom is King. Ulda'h is a backstabbing heaven with clear class separations, despite its beautiful exterior. Gridania is...Gridania. Ishgard has a whole expansion dedicated to the grimy underbelly and corruption. A lot of the capitals we've seen have layers to them and feel more 'alive' than Tuliyolall, simply because they're more grounded in realism. In comparison, the new hub feels simply off to me because there is no dark side. It's an actual paradise.

All in all, this story has decent building blocks that flop hard with the execution. I've started skipping almost every cutscene around lv95 because I just didn't care. And that's the worst feeling you can give your players in an RPG.

Am I too harsh on it? Probably. I expect quality writing for 60$, not a DEI sermon disguised as a bad shonen story.

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

Was the writer for the Zero patches the same person as for Dawntrail? I ask because that's when that food obsession started.

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No, it started out with G'hara's burger, and people love it. Wuk has a lot "quirk" from other character the people original love:

- Wuk sea/air-sickness = Alphinaud's hydrophobia
- charing ahead without thinking = Alyse's headstrong
- Wuk's tacos = G'hara's burger.
- Easy to swindle = Esternien's aloofness.
- Wuk's insecure about self-worth = Ryne's identity struggle about living up to Melfilia.
- Wuk's entrance on the last trial = copy and paste of Zenos.

Wuk's character feels like it was constructed by an AI's trained on previous writing, it lift the good bit and smash them together without the organic understanding, and the end result lack a real soul.

You're not being too harsh at all. Dawntrail is Final Fantasy XIV's Poochie moment and a stark reminder that the ability to write does not make you a good writer.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

The good thing never stops. Even in the last area they still have that weird obsession with food.

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I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed it.

Shameless padding because someone on the writing team really likes food. They really need an editor.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed it.

Shameless padding because someone on the writing team really likes food. They really need an editor.

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Doesn't alot of east asia have abit of a thing for food streams etc, maybe it's just a cultural thing that the western playerbase doesn't mesh with?

I want to add as well that I believe there is a distinct lack of asshole or cynical characters within our merry band (Papalymo, bud, please come back...). And it's the main reason why Erenville is the best NPC to me.

Everyone is some shade of "friendly and smart character" with a different backstory and one different attribute. There are no group disagreements, no punches, not one calling out some absurdities (like the Rites - seriously tacos ended a centuries-old blood feud?). The good guys are morally righteous and the villains are not; clear black-and-white or protagonist-centered morality at play. We have no shades of grey within the characters.

How about an asshole character that's actually correct about something where you are wrong?
How about giving the player the option to call out Wuk's failings instead of patting her on the back?
How about allowing the Warrior of Light to be a mentor instead of a cheerleader. We don't even get the pom-poms as a glamour option for this.

It's all too clear-cut. It makes for boring storytelling.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Doesn't alot of east asia have abit of a thing for food streams etc, maybe it's just a cultural thing that the western playerbase doesn't mesh with?

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Food streams are somewhat popular in the West as well. I'll watch some food streams occasionally myself.
Food is a staple part of everyone's' lives so it's totally fine to bring it up even in games without food. Western games do it too occasionally. But it feels like it has been excessive through EW-DT.

I can't think of any other Japanese games I've played that mention food so much.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Food streams are somewhat popular in the West as well. I'll watch some food streams occasionally myself.
Food is a staple part of everyone's' lives so it's totally fine to bring it up even in games without food. Western games do it too occasionally. But it feels like it has been excessive through EW-DT.

I can't think of any other Japanese games I've played that mention food so much.

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Fair enough, I just feel like in anime and Jrpgs food scenes are pretty common but maybe that's just my imagination.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Fair enough, I just feel like in anime and Jrpgs food scenes are pretty common but maybe that's just my imagination.

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No you are right, it is. Especially in shonen stuff, there are almost always characters who are obsessed with food, usually the good / protagonist ones.

I think it's because having a healthy appetite is a positive trait typical of young people (the main audience of those products), and it denotes the ability to appreciate the little, mundane pleasures in life that make those characters relatable, simple and easy to understand - while making them "quirky".

It's definitely a stale trope in 2024.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Fair enough, I just feel like in anime and Jrpgs food scenes are pretty common but maybe that's just my imagination.

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Honestly the whole pacing mostly felt more anime than anything to me I don't think of many games where food scenes cut into the main narritive like 14 now does

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Fair enough, I just feel like in anime and Jrpgs food scenes are pretty common but maybe that's just my imagination.

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I don't watch anime (except Dungeon Meshi but that doesn't count in this convo LOL) so I'm unfamiliar with anime tropes and can't speak on that.

I still can't think of many Japanese games that do food scenes as much though.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Honestly the whole pacing mostly felt more anime than anything to me I don't think of many games where food scenes cut into the main narritive like 14 now does

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Is it? I thought the meme about anime pacing was that it was the fight scenes that get drawn out to last a full episode or more. If anything, DT writing seems to draw out the long shallow cutscenes of between the sparse moments of action.

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Originally Posted by Narnio

Here comes another two years of everyone being upset and bringing themselves down about the MSQ until the next thread titled '8.0 is the most atrocious writing of the series' comes out and everyone can flock there instead.

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So we're just dismissing what about 50% of the playerbase feels now?

I agree with a lot of these points. In regards to the last zone's generic theming its pacing, I feel they had to structure it this way because of the fact that 70% of the expansion was dedicated to Tural, and only 30% was dedicated to Sphene and Alexandria. I liked the overall idea of Living Memory basically being their version of "heaven" with how people are stored as memories, it plays VERY well into their religion and cultural beliefs and has much more concrete fantasy world building than Tural did. I think they just had no budget nor time left to adequately flesh it out and develop it, so it comes across as just Amaurot 2.0 with Alexandrians instead of Ascians. If the expansion was split more 50:50 and an extra map dedicated to Alexandria, we'd have a much better exploration of the themes regarding soul and personal agency and the morality of such system, which is a huge theme in Cyberpunk-related media when stuff like uploading one's consciousness to the cloud is brought into question. There was a lot of potential here, it's a shame that the 2nd half was so barebones and basically a re-hash of the Ancients.

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Originally Posted by Narnio

I highly doubt that there is a proper 50/50 split on this issue, and I imagine a majority of the playerbase still enjoys Dawntrail even with criticisms attached. A vocal majority though, sure.

I understand the purpose and respect the critique, but unfortunately most of these threads just end up in a negativity circlejerk where everybody's brought down and fails to enjoy themselves.

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Honestly I felt better after seeing I wasn't crazy. The game is what brought me down, the story. Walking away from a paralyzed kid I could cure, seeing my warrior of light nod to things that were so incredibly stupid like letting an old man keep his honor in death while his opponent clearly cheated with a reraise spell... gah the list goes on. I understand just wallowing in misery, and sure, to a degree I am - but it wasn't a few angry threads that started that or should hold the blame for it. It's the writing of this game. It's like watching a classic racecar that used to be last, finishing first over and over again then not only just lose the race but crash, roll over and go up in flames.

That's what brought me down. Not other people's opinions. Not other people's experiences. Reading the mess that is the XIV Dawntrail story - and EVEN then I wouldn't so much as stick around these forums after giving my critique if I wasn't honestly terrified that this the new direction of the game.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Honestly I felt better after seeing I wasn't crazy. The game is what brought me down, the story. Walking away from a paralyzed kid I could cure, seeing my warrior of light nod to things that were so incredibly stupid like letting an old man keep his honor in death while his opponent clearly cheated with a reraise spell... gah the list goes on. I understand just wallowing in misery, and sure, to a degree I am - but it wasn't a few angry threads that started that or should hold the blame for it. It's the writing of this game. It's like watching a classic racecar that used to be last, finishing first over and over again then not only just lose the race but crash, roll over and go up in flames.

That's what brought me down. Not other people's opinions. Not other people's experiences. Reading the mess that is the XIV Dawntrail story - and EVEN then I wouldn't so much as stick around these forums after giving my critique if I wasn't honestly terrified that this the new direction of the game.

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Yeah if anything, ranting and making jokes about it on the forums and other places is cathartic and keeps me from being too sad about this fiasko. It is also the only thing that gives me any hope for the future. If we can provide honest feedback, share our feelings (ugh) and not take ourselves too seriously while doing it, there might still be hope.

But you guys, the "no it's perfect don't change a thing" people? You make me so sad. You should try to be better.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

That's what brought me down. Not other people's opinions. Not other people's experiences. Reading the mess that is the XIV Dawntrail story - and EVEN then I wouldn't so much as stick around these forums after giving my critique if I wasn't honestly terrified that this the new direction of the game.

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This is so true and what keeps me coming back here despite my desire to move on and just forget that whole mess.

CBU3 has proven that they are able and willing to listen to critique. When people complained about 1.0 they nuked the whole world with ARR. When people complained about the StB-MSQ they listened and we got ShB and EW after that.
So I feel it's important to voice my complaints together with other people, in the hopes that the devs listen and do better in the future.

That said, the expansion isn't all doom and gloom. There are a lot of good things. The dungeons are fun and enjoyable, the music is top notch, the zones looks amazing, even though I dislike the mood in the last two, but that's tied to the MSQ problems. The graphics update may has some hiccups for some people, but it's going in the right direction.

Or maybe I'm just high on hopium/copium, but I'm willing to give CBU3 a chance to fix that mess.

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Originally Posted by Sephi_Ravour

This is so true and what keeps me coming back here despite my desire to move on and just forget that whole mess.

CBU3 has proven that they are able and willing to listen to critique. When people complained about 1.0 they nuked the whole world with ARR. When people complained about the StB-MSQ they listened and we got ShB and EW after that.
So I feel it's important to voice my complaints together with other people, in the hopes that the devs listen and do better in the future.

That said, the expansion isn't all doom and gloom. There are a lot of good things. The dungeons are fun and enjoyable, the music is top notch, the zones looks amazing, even though I dislike the mood in the last two, but that's tied to the MSQ problems. The graphics update may has some hiccups for some people, but it's going in the right direction.

Or maybe I'm just high on hopium/copium, but I'm willing to give CBU3 a chance to fix that mess.

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I know it's too late to course correct. It was stated in another thread, and I agree with the assumptions there, that there are just too many hands the story has to go through; scheduled VA sessions, writers, editors, localizations, etc. I'm positive they're 2-3 patches ahead and I know they already have the major beats / outline for the next 10yrs. Still, seeing how they handle the patches, even before criticism, will do a lot in my judgement with expansion as a whole.

Personally, my character did not come out well with the graphics update. She looks like she's having an allergic reaction and nothing like the character I had become so fondly attached to for years and years. However, I can't change that so I just accepted it, despite my intense negative reaction to it. You're totally right in many positives. I've really been enjoying the dungeon content, and it seems the sidequests still have some gems in them.

There are definitely positives to the expansion, but the MSQ is what drives and defines a lot of how I feel and enjoy about the rest of the game. If the story is stupid and it's not a huge deal / optional I don't really give it too much care. However, this was the MSQ - the defining thing about XIV. When I see people selling this game or players coming from other MMO's it's not the combat or raids that get people to come over. Time and time again I've read and heard players on both sides saying how much better combat / tab-targeting / raid encounters are in WoW compared to XIV - and I agree having played wow until WotLK.

The story is the foundation for many many players that take pride in this game. Yes, Xenos and probably 100,000s of players don't care about the msq, but I do.

I really hope the Devs are listening, to both sides. For those that enjoy a more laid back story or not being the main spotlight - we've done that before in other expansions and side quests. I know XIV can provide a great story that makes those that love this story even better. They can do better than this.. leagues better. XIV didn't become the MMO it is just because they accepted when their job was labelled "good." They've always reached for better each time even when trying new things. I hope they take this, fix the problems and improve on the positives.

Something something love, hate, indifference. The fact that we discuss and complain means we still care. DT wasn't so bad as to flip most people over right to indifference, but it does set a worrying course for the story, both in theme and writing quality.

Course correcting is still probably possible with some heavy handed patches, but we'll see how it'll pan out. It's possible that they already saw some of the plot holes before release just couldn't fix them in time.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Something something love, hate, indifference. The fact that we discuss and complain means we still care. DT wasn't so bad as to flip most people over right to indifference, but it does set a worrying course for the story, both in theme and writing quality.

Course correcting is still probably possible with some heavy handed patches, but we'll see how it'll pan out. It's possible that they already saw some of the plot holes before release just couldn't fix them in time.

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"The silent always leave first. If citizens are complaining, then it means they still care."

"Learn to listen and adapt. A complaint is worth twice a compliment."

- Naoki Yoshida, GDC2014

Terrible story, Wuk Lamat was an awful character. The English v/a was atrocious, had the emotional range of a spoon.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Honestly I felt better after seeing I wasn't crazy. The game is what brought me down, the story. Walking away from a paralyzed kid I could cure, seeing my warrior of light nod to things that were so incredibly stupid like letting an old man keep his honor in death while his opponent clearly cheated with a reraise spell... gah the list goes on. I understand just wallowing in misery, and sure, to a degree I am - but it wasn't a few angry threads that started that or should hold the blame for it. It's the writing of this game. It's like watching a classic racecar that used to be last, finishing first over and over again then not only just lose the race but crash, roll over and go up in flames.

That's what brought me down. Not other people's opinions. Not other people's experiences. Reading the mess that is the XIV Dawntrail story - and EVEN then I wouldn't so much as stick around these forums after giving my critique if I wasn't honestly terrified that this the new direction of the game.

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Seconded, yeah, this is catharsis and sanity preservation. Before this situation, I didn't think I'd take to the forums with complaints, and I went into this expansion rather positive at first.
But I need to voice these thoughts, and preferably where the feedback is actually heard by someone who can course-correct if those someones still care to do so.
I love this game, I wanted to continue loving it, and the presentation and gameplay are good. But storywise (and that is my focus in 14) I feel like an Ascian that just watched their favourite world get sundered, picking through the pieces and going "What is this?"
I'm currently right on the tipping point between still caring and indifference, and I have to wait myself where it'll end up once the dust has settled. But if there's a chance this game story can be salvaged again, I don't want to not have said anything.

I was surprised at how much they shafted Krile. They made her into a pictomancer and gave her the motivation of finding what happened to grandad, and then I just feel like she was completely overshadowed by everything else. I legitimately don't remember anything Krile did during the first half of the expansion, and then it gets revealed that she came from another reflection through the city of gold's portal and you don't even go back there, you just get told to go explore while they handle it. Then 3/4ths in, they're like "Your earring is actually a USB filled with data!" and that gets immediately shoved to the side until the very end.

And the big kicker is, even when Krile goes to use the earring it doesn't even work because she doesn't have enough clearance. The baby has to open the door. I felt like Krile's only signficant moment was in Living Memory and it felt super rushed. "Here's your parents, they're from another reflection, look here's a room with some minimal lore and weird masks, okay time to say goodbye to them."

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Originally Posted by PaleYonder

I'm currently right on the tipping point between still caring and indifference, and I have to wait myself where it'll end up once the dust has settled. But if there's a chance this game story can be salvaged again, I don't want to not have said anything.

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This was me after the conclusion of EW. I had come to despise the 6.0 story and the ability of the writers to ignore the established lore to push their ideals and morals. After a year-long and going through DT, I just enjoy looking at the burning house from the battle content bar.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Honestly I felt better after seeing I wasn't crazy. The game is what brought me down, the story. Walking away from a paralyzed kid I could cure, seeing my warrior of light nod to things that were so incredibly stupid like letting an old man keep his honor in death while his opponent clearly cheated with a reraise spell... gah the list goes on. I understand just wallowing in misery, and sure, to a degree I am - but it wasn't a few angry threads that started that or should hold the blame for it. It's the writing of this game. It's like watching a classic racecar that used to be last, finishing first over and over again then not only just lose the race but crash, roll over and go up in flames.

That's what brought me down. Not other people's opinions. Not other people's experiences. Reading the mess that is the XIV Dawntrail story - and EVEN then I wouldn't so much as stick around these forums after giving my critique if I wasn't honestly terrified that this the new direction of the game.

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I was sure they introduced that kid so we could explain that we've found a way to treat temperal imbalances and maybe make peace between our peoples, but instead we did nothing. But then I deleted a bunch of kids and realized the WoL must just really hate kids.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

I was sure they introduced that kid so we could explain that we've found a way to treat temperal imbalances and maybe make peace between our peoples, but instead we did nothing. But then I deleted a bunch of kids and realized the WoL must just really hate kids.

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That section in the last zone I completely skipped. Once I saw what they were doing, how absolutely horrible they handled other parts of the story (paralyzed kid included), I refused to watch my WoL take part in any of that mess - especially with an absolute waste of a character that is Wuk Lamat (doesn't matter which VA voiced her, she was only going to make that entire section worse). I have never in this entire games history skipped an entire swath of story section, but I will not sit and watch my WoL delete an entire section of children or "child like" whatever stupid explanation they put in there.

I did want to mention this looks like it's starting a pattern with the horrible handling of that subject, child death. XIV has handled plenty of adult theming - prostitution, sacrifice, shoot even genocide and plenty more. However, killing children in the final days (the little elephant kids and the hyur one) made me sick to my stomach. I don't care if its at place, I don't care if it serves the story, I don't even care if it's handled well - you don't kill dogs or children that's the rule. There will never be an ok way to approach that subject in any video game imo - I know that's an opinion many people disagree with me on, but that's my opinion.

Yet, as bad as that subject is, imo, my goodness was that the one area this horrible story writing should have not gone with how awful they handled many other aspects of the story.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

That section in the last zone I completely skipped. Once I saw what they were doing, how absolutely horrible they handled other parts of the story (paralyzed kid included), I refused to watch my WoL take part in any of that mess - especially with an absolute waste of a character that is Wuk Lamat (doesn't matter which VA voiced her, she was only going to make that entire section worse). I have never in this entire games history skipped an entire swath of story section, but I will not sit and watch my WoL delete an entire section of children or "child like" whatever stupid explanation they put in there.

I did want to mention this looks like it's starting a pattern with the horrible handling of that subject, child death. XIV has handled plenty of adult theming - prostitution, sacrifice, shoot even genocide and plenty more. However, killing children in the final days (the little elephant kids and the hyur one) made me sick to my stomach. I don't care if its at place, I don't care if it serves the story, I don't even care if it's handled well - you don't kill dogs or children that's the rule. There will never be an ok way to approach that subject in any video game imo - I know that's an opinion many people disagree with me on, but that's my opinion.

Yet, as bad as that subject is, imo, my goodness was that the one area this horrible story writing should have not gone with how awful they handled many other aspects of the story.

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I disagree with you there, killing kids and dogs etc can be done incredibly well in a story. Look at FMA with the chimera, as soon as that happens the audience wants to rip the bad guy to pieces. If there's no bad guy it can still be incredibly it's still a very effective emotional tool in writing, take I am legend as an example. It just needs to be done well.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

I disagree with you there, killing kids and dogs etc can be done incredibly well in a story. Look at FMA with the chimera, as soon as that happens the audience wants to rip the bad guy to pieces it's a very effective emotional tool in writing. It just needs to be done well.

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Like I said, it's a hill I stand on with very few, if any, willing to stand with me. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but it's one I hold dearly. Of course, killing children / dogs is an effective writing tool just as much as sledgehammer is an effecting pounding tool. Just b/c that method draws anger / disgust out doesn't mean it should it be used. There are PLENTY of other writing methods just as effective or more effective at gaining the same results. I know everyone and their mother loves Last of Us, but after that first section I shut off the game and had nothing else to do with it.

Life can be cruel and absolutely heartbreaking. I have no need to add to it with such depressing media. As soon as the death/harm of children / pets are involved, I'm out.

However, I digress.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Like I said, it's a hill I stand on with very few, if any, willing to stand with me. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but it's one I hold dearly. Of course, killing children / dogs is an effective writing tool just as much as sledgehammer is an effecting pounding tool. Just b/c that method draws anger / disgust out doesn't mean it should it be used. There are PLENTY of other writing methods just as effective or more effective ways to do so. I know everyone and their mother loves Last of Us, but after that first section I shut off the game and had nothing else to do with it.

Life can be cruel and absolutely heartbreaking. I have no need to add to it with such depressing media. As soon as the death/harm of children / pets are involved, I'm out.

However, I digress.

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Fair enough, to each their own.

I think I remember Zoraal Ja mentioning at some point that people want to expand without knowing the consequences of war.

I actually thought he would be an interesting character. He gave mysterious and introverted vibes in the beginning, but not "antagonist" vibes. He gave me the impression that he was going to be that brooding character on a show that's hiding something, and not something bad per se. A secret, a sadness, a tragedy. Something interesting that makes him so quiet and serious in his indeavour.

But no.

I didn't hate what he became, but still was a little bit disappointed.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Like I said, it's a hill I stand on with very few, if any, willing to stand with me. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but it's one I hold dearly. Of course, killing children / dogs is an effective writing tool just as much as sledgehammer is an effecting pounding tool. Just b/c that method draws anger / disgust out doesn't mean it should it be used. There are PLENTY of other writing methods just as effective or more effective at gaining the same results. I know everyone and their mother loves Last of Us, but after that first section I shut off the game and had nothing else to do with it.

Life can be cruel and absolutely heartbreaking. I have no need to add to it with such depressing media. As soon as the death/harm of children / pets are involved, I'm out.

However, I digress.

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Yes and no.
If handled well it can be a very powerful method to show how messed up a world can be, how a character gained the conviction to better themselves, or how someone got consumed by anger and wants to see everyone pay who let their kid die.

In most media however this topic is handled poorly and amounts to emotional baiting / manipulation if anything.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

That section in the last zone I completely skipped. Once I saw what they were doing, how absolutely horrible they handled other parts of the story (paralyzed kid included), I refused to watch my WoL take part in any of that mess - especially with an absolute waste of a character that is Wuk Lamat (doesn't matter which VA voiced her, she was only going to make that entire section worse). I have never in this entire games history skipped an entire swath of story section, but I will not sit and watch my WoL delete an entire section of children or "child like" whatever stupid explanation they put in there.

I did want to mention this looks like it's starting a pattern with the horrible handling of that subject, child death. XIV has handled plenty of adult theming - prostitution, sacrifice, shoot even genocide and plenty more. However, killing children in the final days (the little elephant kids and the hyur one) made me sick to my stomach. I don't care if its at place, I don't care if it serves the story, I don't even care if it's handled well - you don't kill dogs or children that's the rule. There will never be an ok way to approach that subject in any video game imo - I know that's an opinion many people disagree with me on, but that's my opinion.

Yet, as bad as that subject is, imo, my goodness was that the one area this horrible story writing should have not gone with how awful they handled many other aspects of the story.

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I had to take a 24 hour break from the story after deleting the kids. I only wanted two things from DT, no genocides and no colonizations. I decided I didn't care how boring it was, how lame it was, as long as I didn't wipe out any more entire peoples or do the most obvious "wrong thing" a person can do in an expansion about faux America, I'd be like A+, great job guys. Yay, power of friendship! Why did they decide to make genocide a zone? That is now forever a burnt husk, so whenever I am forced to go back there to gather or fish I can reminisce about the way I killed all those kids that time to demoralize their monarch. Then we come back like "Yeah, we killed your queen, destroyed your afterlife, and this kid you've never seen before is your new ruler, but don't worry, the lady who beat your queen to death with her axe is his guardian. Welcome to Tural."

But hey, at least we didn't kill their gods, so there is that...

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

But hey, at least we didn't kill their gods, so there is that...

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Uuuhh... I think Sphene was referred to here and there as a "Goddess" or "God Queen"? Though I think those were explicitly external sources like the giants vision. I guess we can technically still cross it out on our bingo card?

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Uuuhh... I think Sphene was referred to here and there as a "Goddess" or "God Queen"? Though I think those we're explicitly external sources like the giants vision. I guess we can technically still cross it out on our bingo card?

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So we hit the unholy trifecta. Elidibus was right. We are Death.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

I was sure they introduced that kid so we could explain that we've found a way to treat temperal imbalances and maybe make peace between our peoples, but instead we did nothing. But then I deleted a bunch of kids and realized the WoL must just really hate kids.

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We didn't delete any kid or anyone at the end. The Endless does not even have a soul which has already be tripped from the memory. The memory is not even authentic but already heavily modified to suit the agenda of the creators. Even Sphene wasn't real, it was implied several time the real Sphene wouldn't go to the extreme, her current self is basically just a brainwashed version that's programmed to protect the Endless at any cost. She's just an agent to execute the will of the AI core. The Endless zone was just a simulation, nothing more, nothing that can even remotely imply any sort of moral implication whatsoever. The system is basically just a self-serving AI trying to stay in existence while using real human as fuel.

S9 and the ourskirt are real people. Some argument can be made if the Endless still retain their soul, but as it is they're just data.