Revelations from Dawntrail (7.0)

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Originally Posted by moshev

Oh I agree, seeing that name got my jaw to drop. I really hope that

Zeus is e.g. the name of the ascian that worked on the 9th to prepare it for rejoining, because otherwise it just makes no sense in-game. The expansion might have some writing problems, but so far the team have been really good in sticking to in-game lore when designing things.

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Would certainly make sense..

for an ascian originally known as '' Zeus '' to be involved with a lightning aspected calamity.

Also, reading some reddit threads about Arcadion

Metem could be short for Metempsychosis. You can google the origins of that word and what it means, and come to your own conclusion of it's implications. :^)

Job Role quests.....

The Job role quest side story been my favorite this expansion for current side stories.

It has some Super Sentai/Kamen Rider Villain plot going on so yes they are all dumb in their own way but they are also dangerous so they have to be dealt with to prevent serious damages caused by them.

Each Job role quests also give us a bit of knowledge about other tribes located in regions of Tural we cannot go to because conditions in those places are too extreme for normal people to visit.

Each tribe surviving because of their Treasure's magical powers either because it is still used in current times or help establish a safe zone for them which allowed their people to adapt to the conditions for those regions.

It also allows us to see how certain old regions are doing in current events though it is a shame not many people returned for this Job story this time. Only the Melee DPS Role Storyline had us see returning characters.

Shame the Last Role Quest will not be released until a future update which currently we do not know which one yet.

Arcadion

First fight Metem yells "My ring!". So yeah he's the president.

10charmanders

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

There could be a effect of both connection and gag.

Another aspect they added this expansion adds a bit more to people's connection to their Shard counterpart in the Source from the Pictomancer story quest.

If players chosen the Dialogue option to mention the Grand Cosmos in the finale of the Pictomancer story quest, the topic about how people on the Source can have Dreams about the life of their Shard counterpart is discussed.

This may have a effect on people as they may take those dreams as a way to inspire them to create behaviors, cultures, and etc on the Source.

This may also apply to people on other Shards having dreams about their other Shard counterparts as well.

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We also see that in the EW relics that our favorite ale sodded smith has dreams of the source and 1st both have had dreams of the other. Which could be an explanation of how the Amdapori mages saw sin eaters.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

About that point

I asked myself the same thing. But I think the souls remain, otherwise the reaction would probably have been even more extreme.

Also, Alexandria would need a huge amount of growth to remain stable for so many decades/centuries. It is currently a problem that the birth rate is declining (although this is more of a problem for the endless), but nothing is being done to counter the waste of souls. I suppose the distribution of souls would be more limited if every soul was destroyed when consumed.

On the other hand, the explanations always mentioned that when a person dies, their soul is stored in the regulator until they are collected. There was never any mention of other souls...

And then there's Zoraal Ja and his actions...why doesn't he take the Regulators from the living population without slaughtering them if he's after souls...with his actions he only made sure that all the souls that people received as a “salary” were used up...

At the same time, souls really do seem to leak out when he dies...it's really strange.

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10 characters

It's also not explained if new regulators already have a soul inside or if they don't. Either way it's not a sustainable thing as you would need to have to start one soul per regulator. Then you would also need to double that number as everyone would need to be able to bank one extra soul. This of course is assuming that they come preloaded as I tried to figure out in my thread about this. Heck how do you even start this system? Did the Alexandrians do their own 1/2 population sacrifice? Or did they have a way to dip into the aetherial sea and took souls from there at the start? I think most Alexandrians have lived this way for so long that they just don't really think about it. I feel the few Turali that do wear them also aren't really thinking about what all goes down with such a system. The low births could also be due to how there seems to be an uptick in people being born with their aether leaning more towards lightning. Who would want to have a kid when said child could be paralyzed for their whole life?

Well even tho I've only done three out of three 5 role quests I am glad that at least the caster and phys ranged one took til the 98 quest to make me roll my eyes. I'm also glad that in the phys ranged one from the start explained why you wouldn't want to attack the thief and their cronies up close. Unlike the phys ranged one in EW made me wonder why did they really need a ranged dps. I just feel about these the same way I felt about the msq. That they don't acknowledge things they should or at least give us a reason not as to why we shouldn't make people in higher authority positions aware of delusional idiots who have a misguided ideas about how things work. I haven't finished the phys ranged one but I doubt I need to do so in order to wonder why a person who hates richer Ul'dahan merchants mean that they should screw over Ala Mhigo's market. Or why attacking the place would somehow fix anything.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

That they don't acknowledge things they should or at least give us a reason not as to why we shouldn't make people in higher authority positions aware of delusional idiots who have a misguided ideas about how things work.

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Ironic that you seem to have leveled this at the caster role quest, because the whole point there is that the authorities do know this guy's terrible, they just can't do that much about it. Tank's also about someone with a very specific contempt for the authorities of the region and a desire to stick it to them specifically at every opportunity, and said authorities being unable to do much about it.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Ironic that you seem to have leveled this at the caster role quest, because the whole point there is that the authorities do know this guy's terrible, they just can't do that much about it. Tank's also about someone with a very specific contempt for the authorities of the region and a desire to stick it to them specifically at every opportunity, and said authorities being unable to do much about it.

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I do so because at the start the bad guy says they want to change the social structure from the top down. That even with the few changes we help implement during the 6.x story there's still too much injustice in the lower parts of Thavnirian society. So, to me the reason why I wanted to go poke Varshahn is knowing what kind of person and leader they are. Even if the Raident Host knows the bad guy is a complete clown who actually comes from a wealthy merchant family up to their stunt in town is saying things need improvement. Only to then reveal that so far seems to be the theme of each story is that they want to be the one getting all the praise for the things they do

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I do so because at the start the bad guy says they want to change the social structure from the top down. That even with the few changes we help implement during the 6.x story there's still too much injustice in the lower parts of Thavnirian society. So, to me the reason why I wanted to go poke Varshahn is knowing what kind of person and leader they are. Even if the Raident Host knows the bad guy is a complete clown who actually comes from a wealthy merchant family up to their stunt in town is saying things need improvement. Only to then reveal that so far seems to be the theme of each story is that they want to be the one getting all the praise for the things they do

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I think you made the mistake of believing the villain that's obviously lying. He's claiming to be a hero solely because he wants to be a hero, and pretty much everything else is backfilled from that. He doesn't actually have any ideals, he doesn't even have any specific beef with the Radiant Host except that they're the people with the thunder he wants to steal. He wants to be a revolutionary because he thinks revolutionaries are cool.

And yeah, the overarching theme of the role quests so far definitely does seem to be that the Passage of the Unbound don't actually have any collective goals or plans, it's just an excuse for a bunch of jerks and bullies to claim and abuse power. The caster villain wants to be a hero, but everyone else seems very content with just bullying people, for often very thin reasons; tank's villain is basically the only one with an actual beef, but even there it's about something that was unambiguously her fault. The entire story series is pretty clearly evoking tokusatsu stuff (caster maybe more than anything, that guy's so 'Green Ranger' that it has to be deliberate), and yeah, these guys are about as legit as any given villain of the week.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I think you made the mistake of believing the villain that's obviously lying. He's claiming to be a hero solely because he wants to be a hero, and pretty much everything else is backfilled from that. He doesn't actually have any ideals, he doesn't even have any specific beef with the Radiant Host except that they're the people with the thunder he wants to steal. He wants to be a revolutionary because he thinks revolutionaries are cool.

And yeah, the overarching theme of the role quests so far definitely does seem to be that the Passage of the Unbound don't actually have any collective goals or plans, it's just an excuse for a bunch of jerks and bullies to claim and abuse power. The caster villain wants to be a hero, but everyone else seems very content with just bullying people, for often very thin reasons; tank's villain is basically the only one with an actual beef, but even there it's about something that was unambiguously her fault. The entire story series is pretty clearly evoking tokusatsu stuff (caster maybe more than anything, that guy's so 'Green Ranger' that it has to be deliberate), and yeah, these guys are about as legit as any given villain of the week.

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Right, because I should have correctly deduced from doing the healer role quest 1st and the caster one second that all of these would be clown shows from the 1st time I'm introduced to the villan(s). Or that later on they would become one and not instead hope that it was just the one role quest that made me wish I had just waited until I was lv 100 so I could knock them all out in one go and that the others wouldn't follow suit and be Hildibrand light. I just hope the phys ranged one in 8.0 will improve on 7.0 as again it ended up with me going ok so I could have done this fight on any other role. After giving the idea that the reason why one might want to attack from afar was due to the totem's quirk having a knock back.

Perhaps you don't need to be an Ascian to know what shard Living Memory is on. Sometimes, the simplest answer is the correct one.

It's on the ninth.

I don't know if I'd call it the simplest answer, but it's an answer lol.

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

I don't know if I'd call it the simplest answer, but it's an answer lol.

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It's themed on FF9, of course it's the 9th.

Also Yoshi-P said it was.

Simple enough?

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

I don't know if I'd call it the simplest answer, but it's an answer lol.

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It's also literally (one of) the simplest answers, because the Ninth is still there, meaning that time travel was not involved like some people randomly asserted it must have been.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

It's also literally (one of) the simplest answers, because the Ninth is still there, meaning that time travel was not involved like some people randomly asserted it must have been.

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I agree that it's one of, certainly. This isn't to say that I think the other candidates were simpler, just that I think they were all on equal standing lol.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

It's themed on FF9, of course it's the 9th.

Also Yoshi-P said it was.

Simple enough?

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I can appreciate the boring symmetry.

That interview is such a fail. I don't want to go back to and become a Shogun. I want to move on to better reflections or other hidden places on the source.

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Originally Posted by Astronema

That interview is such a fail. I don't want to go back to and become a Shogun. I want to move on to better reflections or other hidden places on the source.

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Yeah, I'm really not keen (like, actively against) both the prospects he's touting as big and exciting possibilities.

Fighting to claim control of a country sounds incredibly un-WoL-ish (and yes we kind of did it already with the Xaela and I didn't like it there either) and I'm additionally not really interested in a second fantasy Japan expansion when we've rushed through an entire double-continent in four zones.

And "cross into an alternate timeline where the events in Ancient times played out differently" sounds like they're disrupting everything for pure shock value and failing to grasp that certain characters get less interesting the more they are used.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yeah, I'm really not keen (like, actively against) both the prospects he's touting as big and exciting possibilities.

Fighting to claim control of a country sounds incredibly un-WoL-ish (and yes we kind of did it already with the Xaela and I didn't like it there either) and I'm additionally not really interested in a second fantasy Japan expansion when we've rushed through an entire double-continent in four zones.

And "cross into an alternate timeline where the events in Ancient times played out differently" sounds like they're disrupting everything for pure shock value and failing to grasp that certain characters get less interesting the more they are used.

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Very much agree.

I'm not a fan of alternate timeline stories. The entertainment value in these stories comes from the fact that they're set in an alternate universe or alternate timeline where the writers can do anything they want to create excitement and suspense, and create the illusion that big stuff is really happening (like killing off a main character for example). Sadly, these stories pretty much have to involve a "Reset Button" of some sort in the end. When it comes to alt-universes the writers have no obligation to keep everything the same and don't have any long-term consequences to deal with if they blow everything up. So they do. And therefore it's more exciting. Even though in the end nothing really happened to the main characters at all and you just end up back to where you started.

I don't get the idea that those suggestions were actually things on the agenda, and were more 'here's an idea of the sorts of things we could do in the future given how open the field is now'. Out of all of them, 'WoL going shogun in Hingashi' sounds the most plausible just because it's really specific; the others I could imagine him just rattling off from the top of his head, but that one sounds like an idea that's actually been kicked around to some degree.

I could see that one working, but I think that's mostly because I'm picturing the original Nioh but with a more charismatic protagonist; like yeah, we've turned up to this civil war and we're probably gonna be in those history books, but we're mostly there dealing with a 'Scion-scale problem' that happens to intersect. It doesn't feel like enough story for a FFXIV expansion, but it's not a story pitch I'd reject on principle like 'guess what it's More Ancient Time'. (And yes, I am calling the literally silent WoL more charismatic than William Adams in Nioh; they set that bar stunningly low.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And "cross into an alternate timeline where the events in Ancient times played out differently" sounds like they're disrupting everything for pure shock value and failing to grasp that certain characters get less interesting the more they are used.

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This actually happened in FFXI, though in-context it was treated more like a shard (Abyssea) rather than full-blown multiverse shenanigans. I wonder if the team kicked around the possibility of using the 8UE timeline for an Abyssea-type story at some point. That could work as a relic zone like Eureka or Bozja, I guess. The layouts of Ul'dah and Limsa would make for fun Dynamis (not that one) zones.

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Originally Posted by Astronema

That interview is such a fail. I don't want to go back to and become a Shogun. I want to move on to better reflections or other hidden places on the source.

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"Right now in the game, in Hingashi, there is a war taking place between different Shoguns and the Shogunate of Hingashi."

guy doesn't even know his own game's world state if he's spouting off stuff like this lol. zero indication or lead up to the supposed fact that Hingashi's in the middle of a civil war right now in game. you'd think someone would have mentioned "hey, we need to be careful and not get shot down on our way to Mount Rokkon since we're crossing the entirety of Shishu and Lord so and so's forces might take potshots at us" in Endwalker. or heck, with that melee dps dt role quest, Hingashi would be a hotbed for the antagonist to stir up easy chaos, so why go to Doma or the Azim Steppe?

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

or heck, with that melee dps dt role quest, Hingashi would be a hotbed for the antagonist to stir up easy chaos, so why go to Doma or the Azim Steppe?

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Why set fire to a building that's already burning? That guy's whole thing was to try to get innocent people and friends to pull the knives out on each other, there's no fun in doing that with people who are already waiting for a chance to stab each other.

I think you might be defaulting to a specific image of war that's not necessarily true here, too. You seem to be picturing total war, where all notion of unacceptable targets and weapons, or any result other than complete victory, are on the table. And I don't think that really applies here; I think we're looking more at longer-term tensions that occasionally flare up into open conflict, which isn't the typical image of war these days, but it's how a lot of wars generally did work in history.

Considering we are most likely going to use the Gate to enter the world of FF11 for the FF11 raid, I wonder if we may see Iroha again in the FF11 raid storyline. Last time we saw her, she went off on her own to find a way back to the world of FF11 and now right here in this expansion, we have the means for her to return back to the world of FF11.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Considering we are most likely going to use the Gate to enter the world of FF11 for the FF11 raid, I wonder if we may see Iroha again in the FF11 raid storyline. Last time we saw her, she went off on her own to find a way back to the world of FF11 and now right here in this expansion, we have the means for her to return back to the world of FF11.

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I wouldn't call that presumption of how the FFXI raids happen 'most likely' at all, but I would say that even if we do actually travel to Actual-Factual FFXI Vana'diel for the raids, Iroha's unlikely to turn up until the end if at all, just because she was a very late-game character, and what little we currently have on the first raid seems to suggest it's focused on the basegame and early expansions; we've seen the Shadowlord's throne room (basegame), Fafnir as a boss (first expansion), and the poster shows Prishe (second expansion).

For clarification, Iroha is from after they stopped even doing expansions, but if we call her update one as a 'close-enough' term it's the twelfth. Including Iroha in the raids as they currently appear would be like another game doing a big FFXIV crossover focused on ARR and Heavensward, but also putting Wuk Lamat in there.

Plus, c'mon, we've gotta say hi to Shantotto first.

(EDIT: Miscounted just how many updates in Iroha was!)

I haven't played FFXI for context, but I feel like it's more likely that Iroha would just get a passing mention if you've done the relevant quests, rather than playing an active part that has to slot together whether you've done her quests or not.

Is she important enough in FFXI that she should be brought into the raid story, or could it just be left open that maybe she'll find her way home through whatever route you open for the raids?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Is she important enough in FFXI that she should be brought into the raid story, or could it just be left open that maybe she'll find her way home through whatever route you open for the raids?

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She's basically the focus character of Rhapsody of Vana'diel, in a similar way to Wuk Lamat in Dawntrail or Lyse in Stormblood, so if the raid story does get to that point then she actually is a natural inclusion, but if and how is reliant on how the story is actually framed.

Prishe is a similar focus character, so Iroha could conceivably be the third raid focus. And given that, the second actually would make sense to be Shantotto; she got her focus story at about that period.

I see Koana gets to use the Sniper Rifle in 7.1

I still think the Sniper Rifle should have become part of MCH normal skill by now instead of keeping it as a PvP limit break exclusive as a Very High damage skill at this point that players have to choose to risk using it or not.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

She's basically the focus character of Rhapsody of Vana'diel, in a similar way to Wuk Lamat in Dawntrail or Lyse in Stormblood, so if the raid story does get to that point then she actually is a natural inclusion, but if and how is reliant on how the story is actually framed.

Prishe is a similar focus character, so Iroha could conceivably be the third raid focus. And given that, the second actually would make sense to be Shantotto; she got her focus story at about that period.

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It looks like alliance raid 1 maybe a speedrun of the entire Rhapsody of Vana'diel arc from what the trailer shows so far. I wonder if each Raid may focus on one specific story arc in a single raid since we got 2 more.

Something that I keep wondering about is Zoraal Ja's "boss form" – it reminds me a lot of the blue-glowing "spectre" enemies (more like oversized zombies) we find in places like Sirensong and the Gyr Abanian tombs. I wonder if that is deliberate? If the spectres come from humans – and their presence in tombs suggests they are transformed bodies rather than detached souls – then has Zoraal Ja somehow become the same thing from a Mamool Ja rather than human base shape?

Today's Windows login screen background is Iguazú Falls, Brazil, and it looks like Kozama'uka.

If Alexandria was part of the 9th shard was Terra an entirely different shard?

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Originally Posted by innis31

If Alexandria was part of the 9th shard was Terra an entirely different shard?

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Probably not. Neither the First nor the Thirteenth are actually the worlds from FF1 or FF13. Alexandria being from the Ninth Reflection is just a reference to FF9 having "Nine" in the title—it doesn't mean Gaia (the world of FF9) is actually a reflection of Hydaelyn/Etheirys. Nor does it mean one of the remaining reflections is actually FF9's Terra.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Probably not. Neither the First nor the Thirteenth are actually the worlds from FF1 or FF13. Alexandria being from the Ninth Reflection is just a reference to FF9 having "Nine" in the title—it doesn't mean Gaia (the world of FF9) is actually a reflection of Hydaelyn/Etheirys. Nor does it mean one of the remaining reflections is actually FF9's Terra.

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Too bad that would've been another great "We did everything we were supposed to do." moment.

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Originally Posted by innis31

Too bad that would've been another great "We did everything we were supposed to do." moment.

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We didn't need another one.

Bakool, Zoraal, and to a more ambiguous level Sphene all had that struggle, they just didn't say the words; they followed the road put in front of them by others, that they were told would lead to success, only to get stopped by cold, hard reality.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

We didn't need another one.

Bakool, Zoraal, and to a more ambiguous level Sphene all had that struggle, they just didn't say the words; they followed the road put in front of them by others, that they were told would lead to success, only to get stopped by cold, hard reality.

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Not what I meant but your not wrong. I meant it in a Zidane former hero type showing up and dropping 9th shard exposition.

Alexandria, despite its appearance, is already a stand-in for IX's Terra (its MO is virtually the same), and we already had two of those sorts of characters (Ardbert and Durante).

I get they're pretty much the same... But we have had no one tell us a good story of failure and loss in DT and this would be a great place for it. Ardbert and Durante were different though. Ardbert was another shard of us as the WoL and some people had some connection with the character beforehand. Durante on the other hand wasn't the hero he was just some dude from a world that was 98% fallen.

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Originally Posted by innis31

I get they're pretty much the same... But we have had no one tell us a good story of failure and loss in DT and this would be a great place for it. Ardbert and Durante were different though. Ardbert was another shard of us as the WoL and some people had some connection with the character beforehand. Durante on the other hand wasn't the hero he was just some dude from a world that was 98% fallen.

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If you want failure and loss, Mamook's veneration for the blessed siblings is a condemnation of dogma and the hero worship of a select group of people. The Mamool Ja willingly condemned hundreds of children to stillbirth in hopes of creating the next Gulool Ja Ja, one aligned to their interests alone, as they believed it was their only means of rising on the totem pole without compromising their beliefs. But they only found another way once people from the outside that they condemned not only defeated a simulacrum of Gulool Ja Ja in his prime, but was able to offer an alternate solution they could not have acquired on their own because of how cloistered their society is. They're then forced to confront their failures, choices, and loss and let go of their hero worship and bigoted behavior to continue moving forward.

Or you could look at Sphene. On the surface, she's more or less a perfect queen. But we see from her living memories that she is haunted by the people she tried and failed to save during the Storm Surge (the war section is "The Dreams She Lost" and she remarks "To the painful memories of war... I lay to rest"). When a man begs her for spare soul cells and she's unable to provide them, she does not castigate him for his outburst but smiles sweetly and forgives him because she knows she's too impotent to help him. Her worst nightmare is repeated when Zoraal Ja turns the military on her people and she once again feels powerless to help them. Her fear of losing her own people is so extreme that she willingly perpetuates Alexandria's inherently unsustainable soul cell system and is willing to pillage entire worlds for their souls to keep Living Memory running even though many of the Endless are perfectly okay with letting go.

And Durante was THE hero on the Thirteenth next to Golbez. His and Golbez's arrival provides the same surge of hope that the WoL provides and it's repeatedly stated that the Thirteenth could have been saved had he and Golbez found more likeminded people willing to fight alongside them. The tragedy of it is seeing this idealist become a cold, manipulative monster in his misguided pursuit to give his departed friend the legendary reputation he deserves.

Those are good examples of could've been tragic but avoidable with a good king or queen. And Sphene was always from the get-go evil she always only wanted one thing the tasty tasty souls. Sure she put on a good act but everything she showed us was all so we would bend the knee.
And we ran into hero of the 13th and he was just a kid who was rescued by that one ascian guy. While Durante wasn't THE hero he was still A hero just not a hero backed by fate itself.

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Originally Posted by innis31

Those are good examples of could've been tragic but avoidable with a good king or queen. And Sphene was always from the get-go evil she always only wanted one thing the tasty tasty souls. Sure she put on a good act but everything she showed us was all so we would bend the knee.
And we ran into hero of the 13th and he was just a kid who was rescued by that one ascian guy. While Durante wasn't THE hero he was still A hero just not a hero backed by fate itself.

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Okay, you're just... straight-up not paying attention to Dawntrail's story then. We can't do anything more for you, if you think Mamook's problems were 'avoidable with a good king' or that Sphene was ontologically evil, you're starting from a broken knowledge base.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Okay, you're just... straight-up not paying attention to Dawntrail's story then. We can't do anything more for you, if you think Mamook's problems were 'avoidable with a good king' or that Sphene was ontologically evil, you're starting from a broken knowledge base.

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I mean if thats what you took from it. I will say the Mamook's problem could have been stopped by Gulool Ja Ja but he didn't and they suffered. I only base Sphene on how she behaved sometimes in cut scenes cause she has some sus moments. Then again I could just hate her non-human nature.