Moon Miqo'te Face 4 feedback

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

I never said that the pictures were misleading at all, nor did I say that your observations were incorrect on the changes made.

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Why do you keep replying to me to refute things I didn’t say? This is the second time you’ve put words in my mouth to argue against. Like you keep adding words to what I’ve said that aren’t there. You keep saying “I never said ______” and both times I’m squinting at my own post trying to see where I accused you of those things? My words are quoted right in your posts so anyone can see what I’m actually saying. I’ve been very direct. Are you just misreading/misunderstanding or is this purposeful? I’ve been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but it really feels purposeful at this point.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

When you say “I’m not here in good faith” what you really mean is “I hope people think you are a troll and won’t listen to you anymore”. Right?

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No, it’s because of stuff like this:

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

Yes, let’s see how many pages 4 people can get to.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

I’m also watching this thread to see if anything meaningful happens. I’m sure the few people keeping this thread alive are going to keep me informed on every tiny detail/change that happens to face 4. :)

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And absolutely anyone who reads these can tell they’re passive aggressive and rude. If you’re trying to claim they weren’t now, I don’t know who would buy that. I absolutely do not understand why you couldn’t share your opinion without all of this? Why all the unnecessary stuff about the number of people in the thread or the number of “likes”, and the rudeness?

The way you engaged in here just feels so so unnecessary. Your opinion of liking the new features better is perfectly valid and I would have happily engaged with you on that, like I have with others in this thread and other threads. I just don’t understand why you went about things like this.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

Snip+
Besides the lashes, most of these things are not noticeable to most people, even the people who play face 4. I’m not a mean girl for saying it nor am I bad for replying in a thread about feedback. When you say “I’m not here in good faith” what you really mean is “I hope people think you are a troll and won’t listen to you anymore”. Right?

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You initiated hostility out of literally nowhere, unprovoked, people called you out on your attitude then you cry wolf? You're not the victim here, conversely I don't think anyone is. You're just someone who started acting up for no reason, got called out, got really defensive about it. I don't think you can convince anyone that your behavior wasn't passive aggressive.

I imagine someone like OP to be a good/nice person, who is respectful, mindful, kind and willing to engage with others with curtsey and grace. That's why I love engaging with them, I find them really inspiring, they can express their thoughts well with paintovers and I do tend to paint spontaneously so I lack that kind of structure. I'm inspired both by them and the JP thread, I love engaging with people here because it's about something I love, it's not like you think that I'm raging and malding and pulling my hair out.

You seem to have assigned malice to us? But you also seem to have an issue with probably me and OP which is very weird. The thing is, I really love engaging with people here. My knowledge is limited to art and even then it's not much, Cheapshot has been informative and I feel like I learn something new through my interactions with people in this thread, and if I can provide closure with some of the knowledge that I have, then I'm happy to do so.

I won't allow anyone to try and make me feel bad for posting often about something I enjoy just because in your head you think we're misleading (you? the entire thread has been on topic until you initiated hostilities, devs? even though someone already told you that those who collect feedback are thorough)

I don't think you've been very nice in your last few posts- not for stating an 'opinion' or 'posting' but because you had a bad attitude while stating that opinion, sorry, that's just how it looks on the outside. Being snide and dismissive of someone's opinion isn't exactly a good look for trying to 'express your opinion'.

I'm sure there's people who like the changes like yourself, and people like us who dislike the changes and I'm sure both parties can express their opinions in a respectful and mindful manner, not with unwarranted sarcastic and passive aggressive backhanded remarks. For someone who says that they don't care how many pages this thread gets, you seem to care alot.

Cheers and farewell. Hope this gave you some measure of closure.

Walks in several days later with coffee like ????? lmao

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

Clan marks moved slightly on the face under eye- is this really an issue? It’s not to me

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Love how this gamer has no reading comprehension, I was talking about the positioning of facepaint on the face not clan marks, and had only mentioned clan marks in relation to where the facepaint now stood on the face??? Of course it's not gonna be relevant to you if you don't use face paint that is being warped around the eyes by how the eyelids are being pulled down.... which was the point of my post in response to Cheapshot's post about the eyelid warping. shakes my head tbh

Anyways kudos to y'all for handling this conversation so gracefully when someone is obviously trying to stir the pot. Not sure why people don't understand the concept of "feedback is necessary so EVERYONE can be happy".

This thread has a few things that share complaints common across many races such as lips in general being scuffed. Shapes and textures have changed. It's unclear how much of this is driven by the lighting or texture load issues, as sometimes lips appear better in the benchmark footage itself. Things like gloss vs matte and lip shape should be toggles ,not an either / or situation. Same with eyelashes and otherwise forced makeup appearance. If a player doesn't want to look like they're wearing eyeliner or fake lashes, there should just be a simple toggle for this. I just think all around, the new update should've implemented some toggle features as opposed to just deciding to take way fangs, change eyebrows completely, change character expressions, etc. The character creator itself is outdated and doing another round of finalized faces imo wasn't the move for this update if player satisfaction was the goal.

Like for example regarding expressions, I think it's a little dumb we have to pick a face for that in the first place. Wouldn't it be ideal if picked a face and decided your individual character's expression separately?I wonder if something like that is possible to implement reasonably.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

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The complaints here are also present in other faces across the board, and the entire complaints about this boils down to 'options related to shape changes', the additions weren't optional or new, they were replacements to already limited options. I doubt anyone would be unhappy with additions being 'optional', after all I think it's something that'd satisfy everyone. I find it odd that adding more options to CC isn't somehow earlier on their list..But maybe technical limitations?

I'm not experienced enough to speak of these technical limitations, I'm sure there's other people who have interesting things to say....

Slightly unrelated tangent since we're speaking of options, but I've been wondering if maybe the lack of options is linked to either of these things, a perspective? on upstream bandwidth?, hardware limitation and another on the code limitation.

They always come up that they're limited by this or that that's why it's hard to get new additions, I can only think of the belt removal when EW was released to make space for other things? I also wonder why they added an entirely new face for male midlander that looks abit like the EW WoL (y'know with the stuble) rather than adding that option to the existing face.

I honestly find the subject really curious, but I don't know much. It seems rather simple to 'just upgrade' the hardware, but I think the thing about downtime is actually a valid concern.

Someone mentioned that the new way they've redesigned the meshes maaaaaybe might unlock the potential for sliders down the line but this is a huge cope in my unprofessional opinion though I'd love it honestly. (I can't seem to find that post though sorry)

yoship says thanks for all the screenshots illustrating the problems, everyone :3

I don't expect them to make bigs changes to the faces in general, but probably those weird textures and dead eyes will be fixed, i think we will get something similar to the benchmark test itself but in character creator and finally true high res textures.
Anyway, all of the effort you people put in find the problems here is not in vain, this is really good to see.

I read the new update letter. It was again quite vague with the language but I'm glad for the communication at all, and saw some good stuff in there. Nice to see the nod to the people putting in the effort to make images. Sounds like they found those helpful after-all. I don't know if we're going to see the changes we want necessarily but I'll be cautiously optimistic. I regret not adding the stuff about the problems with the lash texture and the bad eyelid geometry to the OP but I just haven't had as much time to check in here recently. We'll have to wait and see what all gets done.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Someone mentioned that the new way they've redesigned the meshes maaaaaybe might unlock the potential for sliders down the line but this is a huge cope in my unprofessional opinion though I'd love it honestly. (I can't seem to find that post though sorry)

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That was me. Using shapekeys for facial features could in theory allow that. I was realistic though and said we shouldn't expect it. Maybe some day. Unless their animation system prevents it for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

As for the lashes, I don’t think its an accident or anything. I think they were trying to cover the area between the eyeball and the top of the eye.

https://i.imgur.com/9GlCJLr.jpeg

And to be fair to them, I’m not fully sure why that was the way it was either. You dont normally see that much, uh, flesh? Between the eyeball and the upper eyelid. So they likely viewed it as a mistake, but how do you fix it without changing the shape of the eye? I expect changing the curve of the lash to hug the eyeball way too close was their solution since they couldn’t spend the polys to create a lid edge. Then they made them really long and uniform and went heavy on the mascara to just hide the area.

I don't necessarily know what the proper solution to that is, although I would prefer the eye to continue to look a bit unusual than have these huge false lashes that massively change the feel of the face. I got used to the way the eyes look.

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I've been looking at all of the character faces in the character creator trying to piece together what's going on with this, and came to the same conclusion.

Additionally, when you look at all of the different characters you can see that the weird "eyelid gap" is a darkened version of the individual skin tone in the current game but for the benchmark appearance it has in most cases either been covered with relocated eyelashes or been filled in with black makeup – even for characters who have minimal gap and no makeup previously, like male Midlanders.

My best guess at the intention for the gap is that it may do some visual trickery with making the eye visible from more angles or something, or perhaps just a weird stylistic choice.

I suspect that in at least some situations the answer might be to adjust the shape of the eye itself to better match the space marked out by the eyelash line and just leave a thinner rim for the eyelids. I'm not sure if it would work for faces like this where the eye is so fully exposed, but I think it is a solution for some other faces with deep-set eyes like male Miqo'te.

I've been trying to put feedback into the Japanese forum thread (with an online translator and a bit of trial and error when the web browser translates the result back to English and I can see where the phrases got mangled) and I actually borrowed your eye picture the other day to explain my thoughts on the eye changes there, because I was intending to make a similar demonstration but then yours was exactly what I needed.

A couple of posts below that you can also see my illustrated thoughts on the potential for altering the eye shape of male Miqo'te to match the illusion they've had all along.

(I have clearly been wrangling with too much Japanese lately when I'm now defaulting to writing "Mikotte" instead of Miqo'te...)

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

Thanks! That’s super valuable information. I hadn’t thought of comparing a before and after with facepaint. It’s really feeling like our face didn’t get the same level of care as others. I don’t know how I always get so lucky. Y-Y

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It seems there have been issues all around with face paint on the new faces. They've warped a bit and some have ended up higher on the face. I've seen a few people comment on the "painted eyebrows" facepaint and a few of the larger patterns.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It seems there have been issues all around with face paint on the new faces. They've warped a bit and some have ended up higher on the face. I've seen a few people comment on the "painted eyebrows" facepaint and a few of the larger patterns.

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It’s not too surprising tbh considering the topology of the new heads varies more than it initially appeared to. Lots of features are subtly moved so nothing is going to line up exactly as before. Eyes being a few millimetres deeper set, or a tiny bit further apart isn’t very noticeable until you have a bunch of solid colour graphics on your face providing a much more visually obvious point of reference. This’ll probably remain the same going forward since asking them to make sure everything lines up exactly as before is just way way too unreasonable an expectation. It’s why I focused my comparisons on the shape differences of individual facial features instead of the face as a whole.

Also good luck on the JP forums! Sounds like a lot of work!

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Originally Posted by Rueby

You initiated hostility out of literally nowhere, unprovoked, people called you out on your attitude then you cry wolf? You're not the victim here, conversely I don't think anyone is. You're just someone who started acting up for no reason, got called out, got really defensive about it. I don't think you can convince anyone that your behavior wasn't passive aggressive.

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I was not having an Attitude. I was stating an actual fact. At the time of my posing on the subject on the length of the thread, the same four people were making half page long posts with enormous pictures. The fact is each one of these threads in its own way is a petition to the developers or anyone who will listen on some type of change or need they would like to be implemented. In order to decide the need for change a certain number of posts/likes is noted. Imagine getting a petition with 100 signatures and 90 of those signatures belong to the same 4 people. This doesn't mean the OP is wrong about how they feel or the changes they noticed, it is about whether or not the petition to revert those changes is felt by the majority. It does not appear to be the case.

I never targeted the OP in this thread in any way. I never invalidated or belittled their opinion or anyone else's. I gave my own opinion and stated the fact that it didn't seem that many people were upset with the changes. This, in turn, made people start attacking my character with saying things like "my intentions are ill, I'm here to make trouble, I have malicious intents, Inferring that I am a troll, I have a chip on my shoulder, my words are passive aggressive, I am disregarding other's opinions, that I am a lurker, and now I was attacking the OP, etc." These statements were and are directed at me. Why is it that me defending the attacks against my personal character are regarded as me playing a victim? Me standing up for myself and my opinion isn't me causing trouble or playing a victim, it's the opposite. I only stated a fact, that so far has not been disputed. I have not even once personally attacked anyone in this very short thread.

I disagree that my remarks are snide or dismissive. I was offering my opinion on the things that were mentioned in the thread and defending my character. Reread your own post as you are attacking my personal character because I defended myself and pointed out something that was true? How would you react if someone was saying all the things I mentioned above without provocation? Please reread my actual posts. They aren't passive aggressive or backhanded. I said "Let us see how many posts 4 people can get to" and I meant it directly. When I said the posts were half page long texts and enormous pictures, it was pretty direct. I did not, however, attack any one person directly, nor did I attack their opinions. I simply stated facts and had disagreeing opinions.

What I can gather from the very little activity in this thread, since I have been gone over a week or so, that (1) nothing new happened, (2) it's still the same few people petitioning, (3) the majority seem to either not care about the changes or actually like them, or (4) people are waiting to see what changes are made in the benchmark.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

Apart from feeling you having a chip on your shoulder I’ve said none of those things. I think what I said was pretty clear and straight forward. No one, including me, have said you aren’t allowed to like the changes. That’s part of the discussion and I even replied to you earlier in this same thread without invalidating your preference or telling you to leave or anything of the like. I’ve only critiqued your recent post where you’ve been calling the thread “misleading”, speculating that the information and images shared in here are without worth, and making passive aggressive and rude comments like this.



I don’t know how you can speak so undeniably rudely and passive aggressively like this and then pretend my response to it was about shutting down your opinion on the face changes. It’s pretty clear you’re not here in good faith any longer.

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How is that statement rude in any way? I have over 2400 days subscribed to this game so I have a vested interest in what happens to my character. The fact is the people in this thread will keep replying and you will keep me and everyone else updated on the changes. How is bad on my part to say so? I even put a smiley at the end for good intentions.

Also to the person who said it was face paint issues and not clan marks, I apologize I misremembered your post. It wasn't intentional. I honestly tried to include all the feedback people gave in my list.

I finally found time to add the texture and topology issues found in the course of this thread to the OP. I may clean that up later but for now I simply quoted the relevant posts there. I also moved my personal opinion to the second post to let the OP stand on its own and just show what's changed. The developers can decide for themselves what needs to change, and my personal opinion on the matter is now an optional read. Let me know if I missed adding anything to the OP.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

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Please stop. You were rude and everyone pointed it out and everyone said their peace. I also don't understand why you're replying a second time to a post of mine you already replied to! I already responded! I thought things had moved on but you're back and continuing to derail the thread with drama. We've covered pretty much all there is to cover about the face changes, and we all would just like to move on and focus on waiting to see what changes happen. Please don't bump this thread for something like this.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

That was me. Using shapekeys for facial features could in theory allow that. I was realistic though and said we shouldn't expect it. Maybe some day. Unless their animation system prevents it for some reason.

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Oh yeah I remember talking about this with you but I think I saw a post prior to that on another thread, that was what I was referring to which was the first time I saw it!

I've been inhaling copium for alot of things since EW's end, here's another thing to the list. I'm kinda curious about the new benchmark that we'll get by the end of the month, abit apprehensive, but yeah guess we'll wait and see. I think we've compiled everything and your first post is rather thorough so I appreciate that alot!

Resurrecting this thread since we got the new benchmark today and now we can discuss what they've changed and what they haven't. Remember, we're excluding discussions of lighting in here, but I will say that the improvements to the lighting are fantastic.Well done!

First off, I'd like to say I'm happy to see so much addressed in such a short time. I want to express my endless appreciation for the developers. They work very hard and it's nice that a lot of our feedback was considered and acted upon. Now, lets take a look at what changed in relation to what has been discussed in this thread.

Things that have changed:

-Significant reworking of the eyes. The eyelashes have been given a higher resolution and finer, more natural texture. They've been scaled back down to a more realistic thickness. Some may miss the last benchmarks thick mascara look, but this is now much more in line with the original feel. It's now a balance between the original look and the look of the previous benchmarks version
https://i.imgur.com/2lUoOJB.png

-The lid area has been cleaned up significantly and no longer has the strange vertical lines/edges. Lash texture bleed is cleaned up as well, with only a minor and honestly un-bothersome amount still present at either outer corner. S tier work. Zero complaints here
https://i.imgur.com/15y7ZPN.png

-Brows have been darkened. This is a welcome correction that matches the original looks better

-Chompers restored. I'm sure this will be a highly celebrated change. Fangs are now better shaped and longer. They look fantastic in my opinion
https://i.imgur.com/Ae2A04s.png

-I no longer see the faint line on the tip of the nose which the sharp eyed Neviklink caught previously
https://i.imgur.com/pOlqYap.png

-Ear fur texture resolution now matches the quality of the rest of the hair

-Face details now have proper resolution

-Subtle improvements to lip detail depth

-Eyes have a slight grey haze to them now in the updated benchmark I'm assuming this was unintentional.

(Let me know what other changes I've missed for Miqo'te faces)

Splitting this post into two

Things that have not yet changed:

-I don't see any corrections to nose or lip shape yet
https://i.imgur.com/9Znj4rQ.png
I'm surprised to see no changes to the mouth since I swore there was some reference to their scaling or somesuch in the previous statements ahead of the updated benchmark. I didn't notice any shape change in the CC and I didn't notice any difference in facial expression and mouth scaling in the benchmark footage either. Perhaps those changes are due later?

-Lip gap still missing from face 4. I personally very very desperately want this feature re-added
https://i.imgur.com/b5xL1GI.gif

-The facepaint misalignment pointed out by Celestiyall doesn't seem to be corrected, but I'll have to wait and see if they can confirm that

-Unsure if this is a final texture? I've noticed some have a lot of horizontal banding, almost looking like retro scan-lines.
https://i.imgur.com/K5bSJgg.png

Edit: I have just been informed that the below issue is currently in the live game, not just the benchmark. Miqo'te hair has wide gaps between the hair and the scalp, and it might be more noticeable with the head mesh slimmer/smaller now
https://i.imgur.com/l7jffhi.png
https://i.imgur.com/M50oL6s.gif

That's a summary of my observations so far! Sorry if I missed anything or wasn't detailed enough. I've been pretty tired. Overall I'm very optimistic about whats been improved so far! I hope we see more adjustments later on, and I'll keep an eye out for them. Great work devs!

Made a thread about this already but please for the love of Hydaelyn let face 4 keep the lip gap. I feel like the miqo'te faces in general resemble eachother a little too much in the updated version of the benchmark? It's like they took all the unique features of each face and watered them down so much.
https://i.imgur.com/24pjKV9.png https://i.imgur.com/kFAqZvU.png
https://i.imgur.com/PyhSyym.png https://i.imgur.com/KPgdJKZ.png

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Originally Posted by Fenefab

Made a thread about this already but please for the love of Hydaelyn let face 4 keep the lip gap in mouth option 2. I feel like the miqo'te faces in general resemble eachother a little too much in the updated version of the benchmark? It's like they took all the unique features of each face and watered them down so much.
https://i.imgur.com/24pjKV9.png https://i.imgur.com/kFAqZvU.png
https://i.imgur.com/PyhSyym.png https://i.imgur.com/KPgdJKZ.png

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For the record, ALL mouths in female miqo face 4 used to have that gap, not just mouth 2. So it needs to be restored to ALL of them.

I, too, am gutted how they've been removing/toning down unique defining features left and right and made characters samey and boring in the process.

Agree 100% with you, OP!

Looking at your pictures, I think we use the same eyes, nose & mouth, only I play as a sunseeker, and you hit the nail on the head with all your points. This especially for me:

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

The reason I like this face is because it allows for a less "dolled up" or conventionally pretty character. This face has been the refuge of tomboys or feisty heroes. There are plenty of pretty faces to choose from, and this one I picked because I preferred less makeup, less feminine. I don't think we should be moving toward making every Miqo'te have the same look and feel. Overall I feel the changes have made the face look less interesting. More feminine for no reason, as well as less natural. There's less personality, or at least not the same personality. I don't feel like these changes are an improvement. Many of them seem to be in the service of making the features more feminine or more generic instead of just higher quality. The little gap between the lips, the wispy darker brows, the button nose and the thin more natural eyelashes really make her whole appearance shine. Without those, I just don't feel like she's the same character.

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I know a lot of people think we're all crazy for obsessing over small details, but the smallest of details can make a big difference when it comes to a face.


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adding some pictures, visuals are fun!

Endwalker:
https://i.imgur.com/jusx17Y.jpg

Benchmark 1.1:
https://i.imgur.com/g8WJcVd.jpg

Give Miqo faces their lip gap back!

And pls fix lalafell lips as well- give them back their fullness :(

I miss her
https://i.imgur.com/86RyIeN.png

Returning to this thread to share my updates o/
Firstly, big thanks to the dev team for even doing this updated benchmark to begin with. I'm sure they are all working to the bone right now. Hopefully they get a good chance to rest once the expac launches!

https://i.imgur.com/XGVLYtp.png

I would say she looks a lot more like herself! Her jaw seems less puffy and the reduced eyelashes have done wonders! It's a little sad that the corner of the eye has remained lowered, I will always love how angular the original eye 6 option was. However, if the rounder shape gives way to better animation on the eyes I'll take what we're getting. I must not be the only eye 6 player who has noticed the eyelashes clipping through the bottom eyelid during some blinks, right? At the very least it looks like the tear ducts are angled to give it a more cat like shape.

Something a little more concerning is the skin patterning:
https://i.imgur.com/38IFL1o.png
Based on the original texture and the first benchmark, the white stripes of face 4 aren't supposed to fade into the face. Or at the very least, the one right below the eye doesn't. I know they fade out away from the face towards the hairline. Not sure why this was changed. I'm hoping it was an error. I did like how sharp it was initially in the previous benchmark.

And of course, so disappointment to see that the mouth gap has not been restored. I am beyond happy for the fang restoration but I will greatly miss seeing the little flash of white between her lips :(
https://i.imgur.com/wRHWRg0.png
The saddest part of this is that you can clearly see an example face 4 with the mouth gap in the UI of the facial features menu... Just rubs in the fact that we lost it a little more :')

I don't necessarily hate most of the changes. I do want the mouth gap back because I found it really cute and I'd like the darkened nose to be more like it is currently.

Another things I did notice on the first few skin tones for Keeper of the Moon is the color around the mouth is lacking in saturation. The color difference between the forehead and area around the mouth increased significantly. You can see it in the ears as well. While this is in the more grey area of the skin options, this skin color never really had this issue before. It was just very pale.

I checked the other skin options and none of them really match the tone I currently use when I fantasia to a Keeper of the Moon. I was really hoping it was just on my end, but after looking at some other screenshots I see it there too. I could always choose another skin tone, but I used this one specifically because of how close it was to the hair color.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...49c3ee0894eff&

Does anyone know if they've said they're going to keep making changes to the faces? Or is this updated benchmark it? I'm happy they made adjustments to the lash thickness and eyebrow shade, but there's still so much that hasn't been addressed at all.

Video of front on face comparison: https://i.imgur.com/f2crDvz.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/AciqjmB.gifhttps://i.imgur.com/b5xL1GI.gif
I made a video and some gif's to show the current state of my characters face in the updated benchmark vs live game.

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Originally Posted by Roda

I miss her
https://i.imgur.com/86RyIeN.png

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I laughed at this more than I should have :D.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

Does anyone know if they've said they're going to keep making changes to the faces? Or is this updated benchmark it?

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IIRC they said in a follow-up post on Lodestone that they will keep looking at feedback from all regions and refining things up until launch. So there's still hope for our signature lip gap :P

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Originally Posted by Fenefab

IIRC they said in a follow-up post on Lodestone that they will keep looking at feedback from all regions and refining things up until launch. So there's still hope for our signature lip gap :P

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I hope so. Every time I load up the benchmark I just feel so bummed out. My character just looks like a different person now.
To me, the profile gif I made of the side of my characters face and the one of the mouth really shows a pretty stark change in the lines of the face. At least it looks pretty stark to me. I’m really curious if it’s as apparent to others?

I hope they bring back some of the options that are currently in-game as many have already mentioned.
As well as some of the skin colours that were available back in 1.0 as I really liked my charcoal kitty back when she was still as dark as charcoal (in 2012).
https://i.imgur.com/9BnD2QM.jpeg

While now she's dark gray with no options to darken her skin colour further (screen from 2022):
https://i.imgur.com/Qzv3yEf.png
And in the latest benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/46w23Ed.png

I know the lighting is different in the last two images but I feel like she became another shade lighter when I checked with similar lighting with the aesthetician in-game :crying:.

So my final thoughts before Dawntrail. I am VERY unhappy with how I look in the new update. VERY. That might be it for me monthly sub wise. I was invested because of my strong attachment to my character, so now I don't see myself having any reason to play/pay monthly or buy mogstation outfits and emotes. And if anyone thinks I'm overreacting then I don't know what to tell you. Different things are important to different people so come to terms with that. The feedback I've provided here has all been as honest and sincere as possible so I hope no one mistakes me for someone speaking in bad faith.

Overall I'm disappointed in the character update portion of the graphical update. It should have gotten the most time and care out of anything to preserve peoples connection to their characters. I'm very against face homogenization and the removal of charm and unique features. A fantasia isn't the solution to this with such a limited CC still. Now some other character gets to go on the vacation that my WoL earned.

This much change to the face structure is a huge change to the whole feel of the character and that's not ok.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

https://i.imgur.com/AciqjmB.gifhttps://i.imgur.com/b5xL1GI.gif

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My character has been a sassy and spunky warrior, but changes were made that repaint her more toward being a delicate subdued doll. It feels like such a insult to a character who saves planets and stomps gods. I'm tired of this stereotypical brush being applied to female characters in games.

If we aren't getting an updated CC with 7.0 then the character appearance update needed to be nailed and it wasn't.

I agree with you, OP. I have a character with this face, and I was a big fan of their pre-graphics-update appearance. I intentionally gave this character a tomboyish, carefree look. In the benchmark, this character has become too plain and feminine.

The eyes look especially different to me. It looks like they were given huge false eyelashes, which is a look that I generally dislike. The eyes themselves seem bigger, too, while the nose, mouth, and chin all look slightly smaller and feminized. Most of these changes would be minor on their own, but together, they create a look that I would describe as "generically cute", which isn't what I intended for this character. They even yassified the character's eyebrows, for some reason. The eyebrow color has been changed to an unnatural dark grey that looks penciled-in, instead of matching the hair color.

https://i.imgur.com/qoCJdmx.jpg

I'm aware that most people would say the character is more attractive now, but I liked the rougher look of the original. It matched better with the personality I imagined for the character. Of course, the graphics themselves are a good deal better, especially the lighting, but I wish character appearances hadn't been homogenized like this. It seems like characters who didn't fit the stereotype or most popular look for their race were given a few extra whacks with the plastic surgery stick.

What the heck did they do to my face 4 nose miqo?!

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc...0jnO/giphy.gif

https://i.imgur.com/8Ybvzfu.png

SHE'S BACK!

I personally would rather the gap have stayed gone, it results in weirdness for the lips in cut scenes. A white line where there should be none.

Edit: I feel the gap exists her and with some others simply because the overbite is big.

an example of such
https://i.imgur.com/hO0Qb1J.png

I'm SO SO glad they brought it back! My Wol's adorable smile is preserved! She looks like an angel.
I was so scared they were going to listen to the people that wanted it changed, despite saying they wanted to preserve the feel of our characters as best as possible. Changing it wouldn't be preservation, and there are other lip options without the gap.
https://i.imgur.com/5ofkM49.jpeg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roda

https://i.imgur.com/8Ybvzfu.png

SHE'S BACK!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by smitten_miquitten

there are other lip options without the gap.

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Only if you want to use a completely different face.

It would've been better if they added the lips without a gap as new options for face 4, while keeping the lips with gaps as the default.

To me, it looks like they shrunk the lips (compared to the benchmark) to bring the gap back, instead of actually parting the lips, which worsened the change to the size of the lips (lips were already smaller in the benchmark compared to Endwalker, at least on some face 4 mouths). For the sake of those who liked the lip gap, I'm glad it wasn't removed, but I would've preferred a solution that also works for those who don't like the gap, or who found their overall lip size more important to their character's appearance than the gap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ConantSivrha

Only if you want to use a completely different face.

It would've been better if they added the lips without a gap as new options for face 4, while keeping the lips with gaps as the default.

To me, it looks like they shrunk the lips (compared to the benchmark) to bring the gap back, instead of actually parting the lips, which worsened the change to the size of the lips (lips were already smaller in the benchmark compared to Endwalker, at least on some face 4 mouths). For the sake of those who liked the lip gap, I'm glad it wasn't removed, but I would've preferred a solution that also works for those who don't like the gap, or who found their overall lip size more important to their character's appearance than the gap.

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Yes. I appreciate that they're listening and willing to respond to our feedback, but it wasn't the solution I was hoping for. If they had shaped the lip more like the original the lip gap would have come with it. They did in fact just add a gap to the new mouth by reforming the inside of the lips to create one. The new mouth I find looks bad overall and has a lot of problems with shading and lighting. I'm trying to find the energy to maybe submit a bug report about it.

Having passed on the benchmark, I waited and saw my character for the first time when early access started. Aside from the slightly different eye shape that I can live with, my biggest issue is the horrible shading around the lips - namely the edges of the lips.

https://i.imgur.com/euuxR6X.png
https://i.imgur.com/usqbNrf.png

This makes my character look like a grandma or an automaton. I haven't seen anyone post anything about this, so I figured I'd share it here in hopes that the smoothing groups around the lips get fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roda

https://i.imgur.com/8Ybvzfu.png

SHE'S BACK!

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It was so much better when this was gone, now it makes her looks weird in cutscenes

Reposting this from the Dawntrail character graphics update megathread, just to follow up in here.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6513666

This took me a few days to put together. I want to be super super super clear, this isn't some big long post saying that I demand all this stuff be restored. That would be absurd. I don't expect that. I probably don't even want that. I'll make an effort at the end to detail a small wish list of suggestions that I think would help restore the original feel of the face.

This is just me doing my best to document everything that changed with my characters face in a useful and organized manner. My hope is it can be used as a general reference for people who don't fully know what changed about their Miqo'te Face 4 characters. With any luck maybe by the developers as well. I was a professional illustrator for years and I also have a 30 gig FFXIV screenshot folder of my character so obviously my eye is going to notice changes that others wont. Please understand that I KNOW this is a lot. Just try not to jump down my throat about it without reading my intentions.

https://i.imgur.com/OJkiloO.gif https://i.imgur.com/DxLXVqY.gif

https://i.imgur.com/dTKpFee.png

https://i.imgur.com/4A5Lx2h.png

https://i.imgur.com/ChgUy5F.png
Hopefully these images scale.

So with all that documented and out of the way, I'll make a shortlist of suggestions down below. I feel much less attachment to the game now that my character of years looks so uncanny to me. I don't like how doll-like and unfocused she looks now, or how my tomboy look was made more delicate.

https://i.imgur.com/7ExSUOj.png

A few things I think seem like problems that need to be fixed rather than intentional design:
- Solve the current "cloudy" greyness issue of the eyes, and make sure eye shine isn't dulled by shadows
- Remove the gloss from the lips when "none" is selected under lip colour as it was before and remove or reduce the incorrectly shaped drawn on lip shadow
- Tone down the shadows cast by the upper eyelids

And here is the list of what I would love to be changed specific to my characters features that might bring back her original feel better:
-Raise the corners of the eyes back up and switch back to the old lashes
-Restore all curves the nose used to have
-Rework the mouth shape and texture to be more similar to the original. Remove mouth corner indents.
-Reduce the shine on the nose to just the nose tip instead of the whole bridge

I would also love if things like eyelashes could be made a selection because I much prefer the look of the older lashes, but I know many like the new ones better. I don't like all the changes that made my character look more feminine, since when I chose this face it was my intention to have a character that was more of a tom-boy. The character creator could use substantial improvements in general.

Anyways, thanks for your time. Sorry this is so much. I just wanted to take my negative feelings about the update and be constructive with them instead.