Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

In fact, the second half of the trailer is extremely boring and basic when you don't let hype dictate what you're observing. Once Picto gets revealed especially it feels like they literally ran out of ideas. It scares me tbh

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The areas they have shown us (actual pictures, videos and footage of all the areas and its concept art) look like they have not ran out of ideas.

They just did not include all that in the trailer hardly. They deliberately made the trailer look like a holiday which is in complete contrast to all the dark, mountain, technological and desert areas we are getting.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

This isn't even the only example. There are plenty of stories out there where the main character moves on from one group of companions to another.

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True. And there are plenty of Japanese anime shows where the cast remained relatively stable for literally decades. Detective Conan, One Piece, and Naruto come immediately to mind. There were new people introduced constantly, but the core cast remained pretty much the same.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

https://i.imgur.com/Tn3tkCU.png

This isn't even the only example. There are plenty of stories out there where the main character moves on from one group of companions to another.

Think you and a lot of the FFXIV playerbase needs to touch grass.

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That would require having an actual main character. WoL does not have a real personality that would allow for that transition. In ff14 Alphinaud is closer to being well defined main character then WoL.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

It's rather strange to me that people equate asking that the Scions take a backseat for a bit to attacking their close family and friends. From what we can see, only Krile and Thancred have any direct stake in Dawntrail, was it necessary to bring everyone else too? All the Scions being in Dawntrail is made even weirder by them stating after the "official disbanding" of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn that they should avoid all coming together for anything to keep up the pretense of the disbanding to the rest of the world, but suddenly it's fine for everyone to meet up and travel?

No one is asking for any of the Scions to die, just for some of them to take a backseat to make room for new characters, like how Y'shtola took a backseat for most of Stormblood.

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Wait until 6.55 before assuming you know how everyone gets to the New World. They've told us so far only the twins are with us. Recent MSQ gave Krile a reason to be there. We don't know what brings everyone else along yet. Urianger did mention someone was looking for Archons so that could be a possible hook. Which means it could be less traveling together and everyone finding their way there through different means and realizing they've all been contacted for the same purpose. That would also strengthen the idea that the Scions are going to be divided.

Thankfully it looks like they might be testing waters with the idea of gradually phasing out older characters, if the promotional art of Dawntrail is any indication.

Not like any stable adult feels the need to be glued to the exact same group of colleagues everywhere they go.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

That would require having an actual main character. WoL does not have a real personality that would allow for that transition. In ff14 Alphinaud is closer to being well defined main character then WoL.

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This stopped being true since Shadowbringers and the ARR praetorium changes.

According to the forced reactions the writers impose on the player character the WoL:

-Tends to avoid drinking alcohol
-Gets emotional fairly easily
-Enjoys fame
-Is oblivious to stalking behavior
-Doesn't know much about politics
-Not particularly interested in any type of science except for very specific subjects they need to solve a minute mystery
-Enjoys the thrill of battle
-Forgives most bad guys they meet

The above are imposed and the player doesn't have any agency to change it except for headcanon that can't actually be applied to any quest or MSQ.

It's possible that the Turali succession will not be resolved in the course of a single expansion. If there are rough plans through to 9.x, then the map itself provides a degree of insight into how this team 'split' might be structured.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's possible that the Turali succession will not be resolved in the course of a single expansion. If there are rough plans through to 9.x, then the map itself provides a degree of insight into how this team 'split' might be structured.

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I trust SE won't drag out a boring succession over more than one expansion. In fact, I doubt they will drag it out longer than the very start of the expansion. I think they are trying to mislead the majority of people (who will only see the trailer and nothing else) when the expansion has much more interesting stuff going on than that.

Remember the Stormblood trailer has us fight Lyse (which happens at level 69)?

Remember the Shadowbringers trailer had the Warrior of "Darkness" facing a boss from the first dungeon?

Remember the Endwalker trailer had the Warrior of Light facing a boss from a solo duty that happens at level 88?

What these have in common is they were all resolved within the expansion, so I think the fight in the new trailer will be resolved too.

What they all have in common as well is they weren't the last boss. In fact, they were all pretty minor fights that could have been excluded from the story. The last boss is usually hidden and only shown in the Launch Trailer (of MSQ game-rendered cutscenes) which typically contains some spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I like the scions personally, I hope to see them have many more character arcs while also introducing more characters slowly. I don't see any reason to phase them out completely, they're basically the main cast of XIV and I've enjoyed seeing how they have developed over the last 10+ years.

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I think that's the thing, they haven't really been front and center for 10+ Years if you look back on the expansions, The only a consistent scion throughout the story is alphinaud and even then theirs been lots of time spent away from him.

ARR: Featured them somewhat, they certainly had some appearances, none of them really played a massive role (outside certain instances like post patch). But they were more side characters who would sometimes help.
HW: Yeah the only Important scion was alphinaud for the main story, banding the scions back together was a side story.
SB: Featured some scions, a lot of them didn't even play major roles, it focused a lot on new characters, some of which are fan favourites, the story again had them as more Side characters but some with major roles.
Shb: This was the first expansion to focus Heavily on growing the scions as people, you know what? it was good it worked, because we had development, a lot of them were in the story but were ones we didn't know a lot about, This allowed them to stay interesting & grow.
EW: This was the second expansion to focus on them, which again was fine, I think certain growth arcs were showing that it's hard to take them into directions that are Interesting, but it was decent, I think what's funny is one of the most liked areas didn't even have them, almost like we had room to learn about other interesting characters. I think we also knew that they were fine and have massive amounts of plot Armor

Do I think the Scions should be removed? No, they should play a smaller role then SHB/EW though, have some pop up and help, but focus on new cast, I think one of the Issues that newer expansions have is that they're afraid of showing us that characters are at risk, it feels like because the scions are the scions theirs no risk of losing them which is a issue in itself, HW had a lot of raw emotion to it because you knew that beloved characters weren't invincible, it was a great story, it's also fine for these characters to grow and there not to be anything to happen, but in reality the scions don't have much room to grow anymore, nor is there any semblance of risk epically after endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Urianger is literally not doing anything in the trailer. Don't get your hopes up.

In fact, the second half of the trailer is extremely boring and basic when you don't let hype dictate what you're observing. Once Picto gets revealed especially it feels like they literally ran out of ideas. It scares me tbh

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Yeah lets just base off the entirety of DT's story on the pacing of a trailer.


What are you, 14?

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

the Issues that newer expansions have is that they're afraid of showing us that characters are at risk, it feels like because the scions are the scions theirs no risk of losing them which is a issue in itself, HW had a lot of raw emotion to it because you knew that beloved characters weren't invincible

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While true, this fear of losing them was something we created in our minds because we didn't know the developers were protecting them this whole time. So we assumed the worst.

In reality, did we lose anyone that was added prior to an expansion? Let's review history.

• We lost lots of irrelevant, minor scions that were added in ARR, so that they could die in ARR.
• We lost Louisoix, added in 1.0 yes, but only really introduced to the majority of players in ARR so that he could die in ARR.
• We lost Moenbryda, added in 1.0 yes, but only really introduced to the majority of players in an ARR patch so that she could die shortly after.
• We lost Haurchefant, added shortly before Heavensward so that he could die in Heavensward.
• We lost Lady Iceheart, added shortly before Heavensward so that she could die in Heavensward.
• We lost Papalymo, perhaps the only one so far who genuinely survived multiple expansions prior to their death, but arguably they had been absent since ARR anyway and unlike the other Scions, SE couldn't find a way to make him unique from Urianger. They made Thancred unique by making him unable to use magic, they made Y'shtola unique by seeing aether instead of with her eyes, they made Lyse have this backstory that led into an expansion, they made Alisaie unique by making her an impulsive fighter that aspires to be a hero like you. But Papalymo was just another Urianger they couldn't salvage.
• We lost Minfilia, but it felt like we lost her once before back in ARR and she had been mostly absent since. So it was really just completing a death that sorta started in ARR. Despite being a 1.0 character, most people met her in 2.0 and then stopped seeing her after 2.0 beside the crystal cutscene.

So in hindsight, did we really lose anyone outside of the expansion they were create in/for? Not really, beside cutting ties with 1.0 characters they couldn't salvage.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

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Remember those fabled 'cities of gold' that Emet mentioned?

Dawntrail is likely a reference to that. Aurum (Au on the periodic table, Latin for gold) is a reference to the Roman goddess of the Dawn. Also probably the reason why we were told that the theme color is gold, and why the story is supposed to be a 'journey of discovery'. I wouldn't be surprised if the succession ties in to finding this fabled place. The fact that we haven't seen anything resembling such a place yet makes me wonder if this is more of a long term goal than an expansion-specific one.

I doubt that the fight against Gulool Ja Ja is overly important, as he's the current ruler. As far as I'm aware, we don't know who the potential candidates are yet.

The Scions are bland ... and behave more like Chat GPT than any person. Thats the problem.

The scion dont need to go, they need a personality. None of them is believable and our WoL is greatest offender of "limited intelligence". Example: The trust for Zero from beinning to end is not only weird, it is plain old stupid.

I want Graha to be a cool character and not only the comedy relief aka funny cute catboi but here we are and the best i will see from him will be ShB.

Yshtola should be our Gandalf but she is Cpt. Marvel..... and thats annoying.

The twins are Thor from "Thor Love and Thunder", funny on the wrong places and almost ALWAYS out of place. As if you watch Cowboy Bepop and in the next scene Velma from the old cartoons series appears.

Friendship is a deep and complex topic but what EW showcased a twisted non-human way of friendship. EW was about friendship but only on the surface, as if somebody tries to explain to me how the law works but only heard of it and read about it on acticles on some weird websites and has nothing to do with it.

The scions should stay but please give them personality, goals, dreams, happiness and sadness. Make them relatable.
Maybe change the writers for them or let them write. I am not sure if the writers are bad or they are not allowed to write in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

According to the forced reactions the writers impose on the player character the WoL:

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The above are imposed and the player doesn't have any agency to change it except for headcanon that can't actually be applied to any quest or MSQ.

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Such is the wonderful world of video games, where the writers always impose certain character traits or limits on the player character.

Video game protagonists (generally, but not always, the player) fall into a number of character types. A good search using the term "common video game protagonist characteristics" will pull up articles on this topic. The ones from unity.com and starloopstudios.com were pretty enlightening, but then again, they make software and offer services to video game creators.

The poster's list is not necessarily the only one. Their view of the Warrior of Light is fairly negative at the moment, which is about the time I would start looking for another game to play in addition to this one. Somewhere that the writers provided a hero that better meets their expectations.

My own point of view of the Warrior of Light I've come to know (a much shorter list here):

-Drinks alcohol both onscreen and offscreen, generally in moderation, and always with an eye to poison when I do not know the alcohol's source.

-Is driven by a sense of truth and justice rather than emotion, although emotion definitely played a part in the direction of that sense.

-Tolerates fame, but does not revel in it.

Perhaps an example, from nearly 7 years ago, pulled from my tumblr blog:

On my first trip to Gridania, I shared a coach with a lovely man with the palest green eyes I've ever seen.

As we talked, he asked me "What was it that first attracted you to the life of an adventurer?". I did not know how to respond. The typical answers of "Fame, Fortune, Power" do not ring true for me.

It is desire, I think, to grant aid to those who cannot afford it; to protect those without power to protect themselves; to acknowledge every life in a world where fame so often overshadows all else.

Nothing in the storyline since then has forced me to ignore that text.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

The Scions are bland ... and behave more like Chat GPT than any person. Thats the problem.

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Come on now, ChatGPT isn't that bland. :D It could write a novel with more personality in a single second.

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Example: The trust for Zero from beinning to end is not only weird, it is plain old stupid.

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That's where fantasy comes in though. It's not grounded in reality. It's the sort of theme where your belief and emotion can mean something and be right. Where believing in someone, or something, can meet you on the other end and allow you to save the world. Hence why we got dynamis, but I would have said this before Endwalker even.

Whereas if this were not fantasy and was just a real, reality-based, science-based crime drama, our belief in Zero would probably be stupid and naive.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Such is the wonderful world of video games, where the writers always impose certain character traits or limits on the player character.

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I stopped reading here, because this isn't true at all unless your experience with video games is completely deprived of real RPGs, as opposed to Square-Enix's overrated offerings. The most recent example being Baldur's Gate 3.

Regardless of how XIV's team like to market it, WoL is a silent protagonist, not a real player avatar. At best you can change the superficial aspects of the character and make your headcanon.

In actual RPGs your choices change future events, locations in the setting, how the NPCs perceive you and what your relationship with support characters is. In XIV your choice does fuck all. WoL in the MSQ is very much a defined but quiet character that the player can choose the appearance for.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I stopped reading here, because this isn't true at all unless your experience with video games is completely deprived of real RPGs, as opposed to Square-Enix's overrated offerings. The most recent example being Baldur's Gate 3.

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The fact that you stopped reading is disappointing yet expected.

Oh great and wise player of Baldur's Gate 3, please enlighten me to exactly how your player character has no limits and how you can decide to play outside of those limits?

As a first measure of enlightenment, please let me know how you subvert the 'Pick one response' when it is presented.

At the point of selection, the game is as "on the rails" as any Visual Novel I've played in the last decade, good and bad endings included.

You may perceive "choice", but it has all been programmed for you ahead of time.

Since we were talking about an MMORPG, where players may engage outside of the story in any manner they please, your in-story character and your in-game character are free to develop differently. I am not limited to being a protagonist playing with only three friends or NPCs for eternity.

As an aside, you pretty much had to mention Baldur's Gate 3, since most other real RPGs (of the single-player variety) pale in comparison at the number of choices you have to develop your character and the game.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Remember those fabled 'cities of gold' that Emet mentioned?

Dawntrail is likely a reference to that. Aurum (Au on the periodic table, Latin for gold) is a reference to the Roman goddess of the Dawn. Also probably the reason why we were told that the theme color is gold, and why the story is supposed to be a 'journey of discovery'. I wouldn't be surprised if the succession ties in to finding this fabled place. The fact that we haven't seen anything resembling such a place yet makes me wonder if this is more of a long term goal than an expansion-specific one.

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In Japanese the expansion is called "golden legacy". To say gold they are saying "yellow money".

The dawn part is interesting because that could relate to the Azim Steppe lore. They believe that is how they were created. The dawn father and dusk mother.

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I doubt that the fight against Gulool Ja Ja is overly important, as he's the current ruler. As far as I'm aware, we don't know who the potential candidates are yet.

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Probably the scions. So we can contest against G'raha, Alphinaud, Alisaie and Y'shtola, wipe the floor with them with them and defeat Gulool Ja Ja blindfolded. That's probably what the hood was for until it got ruined.

Same I'm so done with the Scions (especially the twins)
Please give the new companion more screen time.

I'm not sure why it took so long to occur to me that this "conflict that divides the Scions" may simply be another Stormblood scenario where circumstances demand that they split up and we'll just end up staying in southern Tural with one portion of them while the rest head north to look into whatever business is going on over there.

As several others have pointed out above me, the Scions friendship with us is only surface lvl, I think the only one of them to ever really go beyond that was Alisae, specifically when were going to deal with Emet alone, she calls them out for how they all treat us. I frankly would love to keep the Scions along if we actually go into detail with just this point exactly and talk about how we as the WoL feel weaponized by them a lot, we need something, anything to deepen our bond with them all because so far only 2 of them see us as people, Estinien and Alisae.

And this is also why Zero felt lack luster, they followed this exact kind of writing approach, bland lifeless aceeptance. It's old and boring.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm not sure why it took so long to occur to me that this "conflict that divides the Scions" may simply be another Stormblood scenario where circumstances demand that they split up and we'll just end up staying in southern Tural with one portion of them while the rest head north to look into whatever business is going on over there.

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I'm fairly certain that I've remembered a presentation that announced that the Scions would be on both sides of what happens in Yok Tural (the southern part of the landmass we're going to, from what I can see of the maps). There may be a split after that, but I get the feeling that the conflict surrounding the throne (one of our reasons for going there in the first place) is the first major storyline with all of the Scions involved in one way or another.

There is the new main city (Tuliyollal) which is in the northern reaches of Yok Tural. There is a new zone (Urqopacha) where the giants live. There is a second new zone (Yak T'el) in Yok Tural, and a tropical zone (Kozama'uka) south of Tuliyolla. There is apparently also a desert (Shaaloani) in the northern section of Tural as a whole..

It was hinted that the two areas of the New World we encounter feel like they might belong to two different games, and that very long bridge appears to be north of Tuliyollal.

Which, if any, of the Scions we encounter after the first storyline finishes is open to wild conjecture at this point. Not enough data, at least until we get a Live Letter or two.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm not sure why it took so long to occur to me that this "conflict that divides the Scions" may simply be another Stormblood scenario where circumstances demand that they split up and we'll just end up staying in southern Tural with one portion of them while the rest head north to look into whatever business is going on over there.

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That would make sense. In the trailer, Estinien is in the south and he also does not appear on the poster. The people on the poster are most likely the ones coming with us to the north, where we are definitely going.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

There is apparently also a desert (Shaaloani) in the northern section of Tural as a whole..

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Beyond that is Heritage Found, which is also a desert, but this time it has a bit of technology and a giant structure which leads us to Solution Nine.

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It was hinted that the two areas of the New World we encounter feel like they might belong to two different games, and that very long bridge appears to be north of Tuliyollal.

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I don't think I'd go as far as saying they are from different games. I think the north is in the same theme except it is deprived of vegetation and aether and that is what makes it look so different. The second desert zone gradually transitions it into technology, so it makes a lot of sense.

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Which, if any, of the Scions we encounter after the first storyline finishes is open to wild conjecture at this point.

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I think that the poster gives it away. The scions most likely coming with us are Urianger, Thancred and Krile.

I can't stand the Scions anymore. Everytime Y'shtola, Alisaie or Krile shows up on the screen I feel an urge to skip cutscene. However they're the main characters (effectively) of the whole narrative and given XIV is pretty much a shounen anime I don't think popular characters like Y'shtola and crew would ever go away or die, these characters are kept in by how much people like them it looks like.

I'll all up for new guys to take their place but I don't expect them to actually disband just like Y'shtola will never die even though Matoya said her condition would speed up her death. Sometimes I think the devs forgot about that.

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Originally Posted by Lexiel

Y'shtola will never die even though Matoya said her condition would speed up her death. Sometimes I think the devs forgot about that.

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No. It was a localization/translation error. That has spiraled into...excessive amounts of misinformation. Someone else explained it in more detail, but effectively in every other translation, Matoya doesn't say anything about it shortening her life span or speeding up her death, and more that it is a strain on her aether. Not life force! Aether. So while the WoL or Urianger is going into the fight at 100% 'charge', Y'shtola is going in at 80%. She's already spending aether to see, so adding casting on top of that shortens her active time.

Even if it did shorten her life, unless they bring it up as a plot point, it is relative (in the sense we are unlikely to ever see it) because characters don't age hardly.

English players need to make up their damn mind about what script they want to follow. They only bring up the japanese original script when it's convenient for their argument.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

English players need to make up their damn mind about what script they want to follow. They only bring up the japanese original script when it's convenient for their argument.

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And yet, in this instance, it concerns what many would consider a Major Plot Point.

So, do you declare yourself disappointed if Y'shtola never dies in the 20 year run of the game because "Matoya Said", but only in the English translation?

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Originally Posted by Lexiel

I can't stand the Scions anymore. Everytime Y'shtola, Alisaie or Krile shows up on the screen I feel an urge to skip cutscene. However they're the main characters (effectively) of the whole narrative and given XIV is pretty much a shounen anime I don't think popular characters like Y'shtola and crew would ever go away or die, these characters are kept in by how much people like them it looks like.

I'll all up for new guys to take their place but I don't expect them to actually disband just like Y'shtola will never die even though Matoya said her condition would speed up her death. Sometimes I think the devs forgot about that.

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I took it to mean that it's bad for your health, like smoking. I wouldn't expect someone to die within five years of their first cigarette.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm not sure why it took so long to occur to me that this "conflict that divides the Scions" may simply be another Stormblood scenario where circumstances demand that they split up and we'll just end up staying in southern Tural with one portion of them while the rest head north to look into whatever business is going on over there.

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Every expansion since HW has had a split quest segment at the start of the MSQ where you had 2 different routes to follow. This was supposedly to help server loads, but that's likely what's going to happen here.

Thancred and Krile will be team captains, each having a different take on the succession(they told us both characters would have interesting roles within the msq). We'll have 9-12ish quests with each group, but won't really be able to pick a side. Then we'll eventually go down the rabbit hole of realizing that there's more to the succession than what we first thought, and probably find a new world ending threat.

I think for my part, I don’t particularly mind any one Scion or dislike them as a group, but I think we have to many “main characters.” Thinking about the trust system for a moment, we have been running with the notion of having an established group of 7 characters. When the system began, we were familiar with 5 of these characters, Ryne was there as our 6th member for Shadowbringers, and G’raha was added as a permanent member partway through and fills an important slot as the one member who can flex to any role.

Now, Estinien has replaced Ryne since we’ve left the First and seems to have stayed a member of the group while we add Krile to the roster. While there’s no hard rule that we can’t have a larger trust selection, having more and more characters to focus on creates more competition for screen time, and that may have an adverse effect on Erenville and Wuk Lamat. It’s not definitively an issue, but I think things would be a lot smoother if we had only 4 or 5 main characters following our WOL through each expansion, and gave the other spots to a rotating cast of characters unique to each future expansion. “Guest” party members if you will. I feel that would generally feel easier to manage. But we’ll ultimately need to see how DT turns out in that regard.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

English players need to make up their damn mind about what script they want to follow. They only bring up the japanese original script when it's convenient for their argument.

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Except this isn't JUST the Japanese script. It is every script OTHER then the English one. So when you have we'll say, 10 different scripts, and only 1 mentions a thing the other 9 don't...which is the wrong script here? Follow the English script if you like, I do, but overall if there is a pretty egregious discrepancy between the English script and every other one? I ignore that discrepancy.

I don't have any real love for Y'shtola, but I don't think it really matters if they said her life force or aether. Either way, you know she's not going anywhere. Sure, they could make it clearer, but people that hate Y'shtola will still hate her and want her to die regardless of what the game says.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I don't have any real love for Y'shtola, but I don't think it really matters if they said her life force or aether. Either way, you know she's not going anywhere. Sure, they could make it clearer, but people that hate Y'shtola will still hate her and want her to die regardless of what the game says.

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It's kind of funny. It's like they think if they can prove Y'shtola is supposed to die that Square Enix will have no choice but to kill her.

Honestly they should send the damn twins on a journey for the duration of a expansion or two and let them come back as adults.
Everytime i see Alphinaud i feel like Kratos from GoW and be like "Shut up BOY!".

I also wish we could move on a little, or at least, focus more on the newer Scions and let the ones who have been major players for 10 years now have a bit of a rest.

But I know it won't happen simply because of how popular they are.

Hate Yshtola ? How, for that she needs a personality or character or anything. In short Yshtola is a marketing "thing" and has nothing else going on at the moment.
She is a Mary Sue and can be switched out. Kill Captain Catgirl and make Graha the next in line.. and look at that almost no changes in the story are needed besides the gender language on certain points. If you now argue but the little familiar then sorry do we play diffrent games ? That story is so stupid and a bore without any point that Grahas Burger moment has more to offer than this and has more personality (i want that burger).
Thats it: Make Grahas Burger eating moment the reason we can beat gods/demons/whatever... atleast it would be funny. The Burger LB

On a more serious note. The scions have nothing ghoing on. Graha is now the fanboi but in certain moments incredible powerfull for no reason and in the next he is not. Than we have Yshtola that regresses in mental age the moment the writers cant come up with something. Krile is a teacher, researcher regarding the lore but instead most of the time the helpless Princesis MCGuffin. The twins are here to humor us on the wrong places to take out the pacing. Thancred is.... a story hook when needed otherwise a ghost. Urianger was extremly interesting, a figure shred, sly, cunning and very secretiv but now he is nothing and only there to give us a information or a hook. He has no involvment. No scion has something going on everything feels disconnected. As if the scions are in reallity evil and we are constantly deceived. (Btw that would be cool - SE you can use that for an xpac)

All this is a sign of failure in direction and keeping the story together. HW to SHB never happened ,atleast for the scions, mentally. Everybody regressed to ARR level. As if nothing happend after ARR.

Tropes are fine but can we have scions with personality?
If all that is not a problem, then i am old and yelling at a cloud.

I think what they should do with Y'shtola is obvious:

-find a way to cross dimensions
-return to the First
-it turns out Runar got a girlfriend in the mean time
-Y'shtola realizes that she might actually either a) have had feelings for Runar all along or b) have a part that wants to eventually settle down herself and start a family
-she has to decide how she wants to proceed given her ability and perhaps perceived duty to the star
-involve Matoya somehow, maybe Matoya dies of natural causes, cause she's old
-realize that Urianger and her would actually be a match made in heaven

one of the coolest things Final Fantasy does is make boring, bland and one-dimensional characters with superpowers relatable and grounds them in normal human stuff. This is why Terra from FFVI is such a great character, in the second half she really becomes an actual person when she finds something in the world to protect and care about. And it just so happens to be an orphanage full of children who lost their parents in the apocalypse, which is about as normal and grounded as you can go in FF.

It's also obvious that the game needs more romance, there is barely any. You can say that it's because of the player who should be able to you know pretend that they romance any of the cast, but let's be honest that's just fanfiction at the end of the day anyway. Also just because you want to roleplay your char being in love with Y'shtola doesn't mean that Y'shtola has to therefore become some sort of extension of your wish in terms of writing. In FFX I wanted to romance Lulu rather than Yuna, did I get the option? No and it's better that way. You can still flirt with Lulu tho, which is nice! Still she decides for Wakka in the end, cause she's her own person.

I love the Scions BUT I would like an expansion that separates us from them for it's entirety so we could see their growth when we get back. Maybe have us be abducted so they spend the time in the background trying to find us.

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Originally Posted by Hausti

Honestly they should send the damn twins on a journey for the duration of a expansion or two and let them come back as adults.
Everytime i see Alphinaud i feel like Kratos from GoW and be like "Shut up BOY!".

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This made me laugh. I don't even hate the twins, but I was disappointed to see them show up. I mean, I knew they would. It just feels like EW really concluded a lot of Alphi's character arc. We could afford to let them do something else. Let Alisaie find something she can truly do besides making jokes at Alphinaud's expense too.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

This made me laugh. I don't even hate the twins, but I was disappointed to see them show up. I mean, I knew they would. It just feels like EW really concluded a lot of Alphi's character arc. We could afford to let them do something else. Let Alisaie find something she can truly do besides making jokes at Alphinaud's expense too.

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omg.... after playing this latest patch there they are... like gum stuck to a shoe. It's not like Alphinaud would ever be able to resist meddling in the politics of governments that don't concern him. Like at this point they're just clinging on for entertainment to us. I wish they'd stay in Garlemald.