7.0 copium has got to stop

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Hard evidence given for people not liking the absolute state of healers

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INB4 "B-b-but the people who took that 5.0 poll are just a group of malcontents in a negative echo chamber!"

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

3 years old? Got any more recent data?

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Reread this:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Now I’ll attach the stipulation that most of this data is old, however that is only because newer data doesn’t exist, however no event has occurred in the intervening time that seems likely to have strongly affected these results (the census seems to show that SGE just pulled from the existing pool of shrinking healers, not bringing people to healer)

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Super: you are missing one key element.

The split between pure heals and barrier heal classes is quite distinct, so what you may be seeing here may have little to do with the class , but the kind of healing they enjoy.

Given a choice between SCH or SGE and then WHM / AST, Id take WHM each and every time since it suits my playstyle better. My point is that a lot of people may not LIKE the barrier heals mechanics, preferring a more reactive approach to healing.

I prefer WHM / AST because it feels smoother, more fluid.

SCH has ALWAYS felt clunky, sort of a cut down SMN from ShB to now. AST I enjoy, SGE well I levelled it but I did not like the feel of its mechanics.

This is a more personal preference and has little to do with the actual class.

So, factor that in?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Super: you are missing one key element.

The split between pure heals and barrier heal classes is quite distinct, so what you may be seeing here may have little to do with the class , but the kind of healing they enjoy.

Given a choice between SCH or SGE and then WHM / AST, Id take WHM each and every time since it suits my playstyle better. My point is that a lot of people may not LIKE the barrier heals mechanics, preferring a more reactive approach to healing.

I prefer WHM / AST because it feels smoother, more fluid.

SCH has ALWAYS felt clunky, sort of a cut down SMN from ShB to now. AST I enjoy, SGE well I levelled it but I did not like the feel of its mechanics.

This is a more personal preference and has little to do with the actual class.

So, factor that in?

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I’m not sure how the healer split changes anything considering all the healers are experiencing a deficit, if people liked regen healers and didn’t respond strongly to SGE because they don’t like shield healers then AST wouldn’t be as much of a deficit as the shield healers as well

Wait:

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5.25 Job Satisfaction Survey

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"JP poll on Job Satisfaction in 5.0

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3 years old? Got any more recent data?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Wait:





3 years old? Got any more recent data?

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Did you even read my post or did you just see I posted something then immediately jumped to a random defence you think I didn’t cover

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

INB4 "B-b-but the people who took that 5.0 poll are just a group of malcontents in a negative echo chamber!"

Edit:



Reread this:

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Even when I put in a stipulation I get ignored

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Personally, I don't think SE can make any real progress on healer design until they strip back many of the healing and mitigation tools they've given other roles, and better balance the importance of each role in content in general. Every role should need both of the other roles doing their jobs to clear content synced.

If SE's concern is "if we balance role importance and a healer dies there's no recovery while a party can recover if a tank or DPS dies because a healer can Raise them", giving other roles more healing and mitigation utility isn't the answer. The answer is to give the other roles an instant cast Raise with a 10 minute recharge timer or something similar - an "oh crap button" to get the healer up if needed without being so convenient it can be used for any death. That takes nothing away from the healer role as it's only useful after death occurs, not in helping to prevent death.

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The dev team tends to avoid announcing direct nerfs whenever possible. Jobs and roles typically get stealth nerfed between expansions, when there are so many other changes happening at the same time that it's often hard for players to pinpoint that a nerf has actually happened. I think that if at all the amount of self-healing and non-healer mitigation available were to be scaled back, the 7.0 transition is the most likely time for it to happen (unannounced, of course). I would be very surprised if this will get reverted entirely, however (WAR nerfs always have major backlash).

The reason why I think that a focus on 'role importance' is less likely is because pass-fail checks tend to be reserved for more challenging fights, where there is a mandatory attendance check at the start and end of a mechanic. Easier content is designed with a greater degree of cross-compensation in mind so that you don't arbitrarily get held back by one or two players who are struggling.

Improving the damage-dealing rotation of healers would be useful, as would the addition of more actions that serve both an offensive and defensive function at the same time. Healers will always at best be second-class DPS players, though, if that's all they have on offer. And some people want to keep it like that. Why swap to Caster when you can be compared against a Healer community that isn't even trying to do damage? Big fish, small pond.

I think what hasn't been explored is the role of support actions that indirectly bolster raid and party performance. Expedient was probably the first step in the right direction with this, and I wouldn't be surprised if at least one other healer ends up with a similar tool. There are probably other ways that a healer could improve teammates uptime through support actions as well, and I think that this is the best way to improve the role (short of introducing new healer jobs that break away from the the traditional WHM/SCH archetypes). You have so many different competing interests from the community though, so I don't envy the position of anyone invested in bringing a change.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Wait:





3 years old? Got any more recent data?

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Not a lot has changed for healers since 5.0, and certainly not enough to pull SCH and AST out of the abyss.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Not a lot has changed for healers since 5.0, and certainly not enough to pull SCH and AST out of the abyss.

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Maybe, Kazhar, but a more recent survey would be more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m not sure how the healer split changes anything considering all the healers are experiencing a deficit, if people liked regen healers and didn’t respond strongly to SGE because they don’t like shield healers then AST wouldn’t be as much of a deficit as the shield healers as well

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They did at least acknowledge early in the expansion that AST is a mess and needs a major rework but they wouldn't have it done until 7.0.

It also would explain why AST numbers are so low. I know several players who have leveled AST in the past but skipped it this expansion specifically because SE said early on that it was going to get the major rework. They decided it wasn't worth their time to level it until just before 7.0 gets released if they weren't going to be playing it.

I wish FFXIVCensus hadn't lost most of their older database. It would have been interesting to compare Feb 2021 chart (patch 5.45) with the current chart to see if there was a major variance in endgame job distribution.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

3 years old? Got any more recent data?

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There had been an interruption in the running of the FFXIVCensus website and they lost of most of their old data. It didn't start back up again until last year. Comparing now to Jan 2022 wouldn't tell us anything useful.

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There had been an interruption in the running of the FFXIVCensus website and they lost of most of their old data. It didn't start back up again until last year. Comparing now to Jan 2022 wouldn't tell us anything useful.

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Fair point, Jojoya. In which case , @ Supersnow, I concede the 5.4 data is the best metric for the moment.

Still in that scenario with all factors pointing in WHM’s favour (assuming that healers aren’t unpopular) it would be so far above every other job it wouldn’t be funny because it would be the only healer anyone uses (because we are assuming AST is dead till 7.0 and SGE didn’t move the needle because people don’t like shield healers)

But it’s not, it’s upper middle at best

If 3 out of 4 of the jobs in an entire role have critical reception problems and the other one is both the only healer available at 1 and probably the series most iconic job (aerith anyone) and by far the easiest to play and it’s still not decimating every other class then there is a problem with the role as a collective

If tanks or DPS had one job that had everything point in its favour like WHM does it would be up in the range of 1.2-1.3 million, not barely cracking a million

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

The split between pure heals and barrier heal classes is quite distinct

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how to spot a trash healer 101

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

It’s not just the forums but go off champ

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It literally is just the forums that complains like this.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

It literally is just the forums that complains like this.

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r/ffxivdiscussion would like to know your location.

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Originally Posted by TheOperator3712

r/ffxivdiscussion would like to know your location.

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People in the game would also like to know their location tbh, literally everyone is complaining about healer being terrible and boring

But hey they can continue to not fix the healers just to COR and PIC can’t get any queues when they launch, I’m sure the playerbase will like that

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Originally Posted by Ransu

It literally is just the forums that complains like this.

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Sometimes I wonder if people are joking when they say this, if they're just lying, or if they're really this out of touch.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Sometimes I wonder if people are joking when they say this, if they're just lying, or if they're really this out of touch.

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At this point even if it’s anecdotal I’d take screenshots of people in game praising healers as evidence they have even a single toe to stand on considering they don’t argue in good faith anyway considering whenever I post hard evidence they just ignore it and continue like I never posted in the first place

Their absolute belief that they are the majority despite having never presented a shred of evidence to support themselves is definitely an achievement

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

People in the game would also like to know their location tbh, literally everyone is complaining about healer being terrible and boring

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Someone needs to learn what "literally" means. Personally, I haven't heard any complaints about it game, and I myself enjoy healing.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Someone needs to learn what "literally" means. Personally, I haven't heard any complaints about it game, and I myself enjoy healing.

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Does the links to population wide studies I did 2 pages ago mean nothing to you considering how big sample sizes they have and how wide reaching their questions are

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Does the links to population wide studies I did 2 pages ago mean nothing to you considering how big sample sizes they have and how wide reaching their questions are

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Surveys only represent a vocal minority unless it suits him.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Someone needs to learn what "literally" means. Personally, I haven't heard any complaints about it game, and I myself enjoy healing.

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What are you on about?

People complain about the state of healers on a daily basis in-game, to the degree that people get annoyed with it being brought up almost every day in places like the Novice Network.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Every game will fail eventually. Although seeing the way game has absolutely boomed with success in both ShB and EW, I see 0 reason why 7.0 will not follow same footsteps in terms of core design philosophy. Which will keep it successful for at least some time, even if the 'harcore mmo players' of the forum negativity squad will quit for real and not to return the moment next patch drops. Plainly put, its not a game for that kind of player anymore, because that kind of player is scarce and not profitable, while MMO is a very expensive genre, especially with modern booming game costs, and this game has only exploded in both popularity and profitability by replacing things that appeal to hardcore players with things that appeal to casual players.. Over next decade, you will see more games try to repeat ff14's formula, and not ARR/HW FF14, but Shadowbringers FF14, which over time will become the new standard of MMOs, just like WoW set its own with WotLK

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Which is why we need a new MMO. I need something with better fulfilling content

And this is why we need WoW to do a bit better, not good only a bit better, so we can have relaxing times where we are just an adventurer and nothing more like in ARR that we gave food after killing "gods" to the doma refugees because that is another act of what a hero does, but suddenly "oh we killed gods and now we are giving food to people" like bro, you are a person too you can die if you get shoot on the head at that point in the story, you have 0 power besides the gift.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Oh, Blue Protocol.

Blue Protocol's chasing the Genshin market but with an approach more akin to PSO2 NGS, so a) nobody with the sort of brain damage that leads one to post in this thread is likely to be into it and b) it's going to fail on its own merits long before AGS' effect matters. It's been in development for nine years and the final product suggests they were about as conceptually behind the curve for most of those years as they were when Gundam Evolution missed the boat and was then promptly driven into the sea. The day Bandai Namco figures out online games is the day I rejoice, and at this rate I expect that energy will manifest in the form of me rolling in my grave.

Anyway.

Show me some content that the ~Entire Playerbase~ approves of that isn't just literally free stuff being handed to them and I can all but guarantee I can find someone who most certainly disapproves of it on my friends list, much less anywhere else in the FF14 internet sphere. MMOs not only basically never produce content that the Entire Playerbase loves, but should be deeply skeptical on the off-chance they come up with something that appears to be universally loved because it often signals that there's probably something deeply cursed about it that hasn't manifested yet.

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Or Yoshi and his team really and I mean really need to start taking risks and chances. They become so complacent they don't dare try anymore. All it takes is for some company to make a new MMO take what is good in each one implement their own and once FFXIV has some competition again, can they afford to keep the same outlook they have been doing?

Yes, I know man. I just...things are kind of rough in real life right now, having a bad bout of severe depression mixed with every day issues. So I was just...hoping. I want to see this game return to a time when I loved it, I want that connection back, I want my summoner back....but I know it ain't going to happen. This isn't my first MMO, it's not even the first one I have seen go down this route.

Endwalker was XIVs version of Cataclysm, straight down to removing the godlike protectors so that the world's heroes had to go it alone and thus turning the player characters into the strongest in existence. We saw even more homogenization, straight up changing of jobs, and the reworking of a lot of old world content. We're now going into Panderia, complete with new continent of an exotic locale.

So I know very well where this is going but I want to have hope.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

No, it doesn't. This is your caricature you trot out to attack disagreement.

Which, btw, only contributes to a lack of ability to develop consensus.

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Sure, it's a "caricature". The unchanging line in the sand for every single one of your arguments is that you absolutely, positively, *must* have a healer that cannot develop a skill ceiling above what it has right now. Non-healing utility? "You just want to be a support". Damage rotation? "You just want to play a DPS". "Some people don't like damage rotations". On and on and on.

I'm sorry, what part of that isn't "no skill ceilings allowed"?

At least be honest about what you want. You call it a caricature because it makes Sylphies look like disingenuous liars. Which they are, but they at least understand that's not a good look.

Playing for years, love the game, happy to see it continue.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Sure, it's a "caricature". The unchanging line in the sand for every single one of your arguments is that you absolutely, positively, *must* have a healer that cannot develop a skill ceiling above what it has right now. Non-healing utility? "You just want to be a support". Damage rotation? "You just want to play a DPS". "Some people don't like damage rotations". On and on and on.

I'm sorry, what part of that isn't "no skill ceilings allowed"?

At least be honest about what you want. You call it a caricature because it makes Sylphies look like disingenuous liars. Which they are, but they at least understand that's not a good look.

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I’ve yet to see renathras or striker even present an argument for why all 4 healers need to be 4 versions of watered down 4.0 WHM (including having useless gauges)

Let’s be super generous and say they actually are the majority and the playerbase is satisfied with healers on the whole (I’ve presented evidence to the contrary but let’s go hypothetical) there is still a strong undercurrent of being annoyed at modern healers (especially from the older playerbase), what’s stopping them from making 1 or 2 of the 4 healers something that we want

If current WHM is a 1 and HW SCH is a 100 on the scale of difficulty then current AST is about a 15 and current SCH is about a 7, why is it impossible to conceive one of them could be a 75, not every healer needs to accomodate people who spam diagnosis and call it a playstyle

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’ve yet to see renathras or striker even present an argument for why all 4 healers need to be 4 versions of watered down 4.0 WHM (including having useless gauges)

Let’s be super generous and say they actually are the majority and the playerbase is satisfied with healers on the whole (I’ve presented evidence to the contrary but let’s go hypothetical) there is still a strong undercurrent of being annoyed at modern healers (especially from the older playerbase), what’s stopping them from making 1 or 2 of the 4 healers something that we want

If current WHM is a 1 and HW SCH is a 100 on the scale of difficulty then current AST is about a 15 and current SCH is about a 7, why is it impossible to conceive one of them could be a 75, not every healer needs to accomodate people who spam diagnosis and call it a playstyle

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Because they will feel bad if the game makes them feel that they suck. So sadly we are now in a state where everyone must be made to feel competent despite their incompetence.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Sure, it's a "caricature". The unchanging line in the sand for every single one of your arguments is that you absolutely, positively, *must* have a healer that cannot develop a skill ceiling above what it has right now. Non-healing utility? "You just want to be a support". Damage rotation? "You just want to play a DPS". "Some people don't like damage rotations". On and on and on.

I'm sorry, what part of that isn't "no skill ceilings allowed"?

At least be honest about what you want. You call it a caricature because it makes Sylphies look like disingenuous liars. Which they are, but they at least understand that's not a good look.

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Sadly it isn't quite just skill ceilings that he's against. It seems that he's against anyone that is more knowledgeable than him at all.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’ve yet to see renathras or striker even present an argument for why all 4 healers need to be 4 versions of watered down 4.0 WHM (including having useless gauges)

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I've actually commented on this in several threads over time, though I believe most frequently about tanks rather than healers. I generally enjoy the way they structure the classes within a role. For someone like me with relatively limited time to play (at least compared to years ago), knowing that every tank, for example, is going to have the same baseline set of abilities (e.g. an attack combo-sequence, a Bulwark, a larger 20% dmg reduction, an immunity, etc.) and then augment it with some unique specific skills - it makes it much more feasible to try out the different classes and see what I enjoy most. I'm confident I'll have the basic idea of what to do, and can focus my limited time on learning those specific abilities that make the class distinct.

Healers are even more varied in that regard, with the separation between "pure" healers and "shield" healers. And DPS even more so with the mix of melee, ranged, physical, magical, etc.. Heck, even within magical DPS a BLM plays very different than an RDM.

As to your question regarding perceived difficulty (we'll ignore the wild inaccuracies of your personal take on "rating" them), what developer wants to spend time creating a class that very few people will play? FFXIV of today is the WoW of 2005 (while the WoW of today has become the EQ of 2005). It's the MMO targeted most directly at casual gamers who are looking for a relaxed, fun experience playing a game. It's part of what helped WoW become the first mega-blockbuster MMO, and part of what is driving FFXIV to thrive today and continue growing with each expansion. (And heck, some of WoW's big changes like introducing different raid difficulties, LFR, etc., was in large part because such a minuscule % of the playerbase was actually engaging in the raids. It was demoralizing to put so much work into making something that so few people were actually doing.)

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Because they will feel bad if the game makes them feel that they suck. So sadly we are now in a state where everyone must be made to feel competent despite their incompetence.

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Sadly it isn't quite just skill ceilings that he's against. It seems that he's against anyone that is more knowledgeable than him at all.

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Are you okay, Titan? I almost feel sorry for you.

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Originally Posted by Koros

Seriously, I don't even know where people get the idea that 7.0 is going to fix or even partially fix the problems with this game, it's not just one or two people, it's like the majority of the playerbase.

If you don't like the game at all, unironically save yourself the money and quit now because at this point this game is irredeemable. There's literally no point in waiting for 7.0 to fix anything. Spoiler: they won't. Only reason to stick to this game is for secondary, non-game purposes.

Let me just spoil the ending for all of you: FF14 is going to start failing, slowly, Square Enix is going to put this on maintenance mode in like 8.0 or 9.0 or something, maybe they'll try to revitalize it but fail.

CBU3 has like literally no idea how to make interesting progression systems, there is not a single exploratory content or horizontal content that succeeded with the entire playerbase. They just don't know how. They also fired some devs and leads who disagreed with the vision of the game (rumor), clearly they're not open to feedback either. So don't huff the copium really, no need to wait for 7.0. It's already over.

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Nty i am enjoying the game its enough to keep me subbed and if a new game comes out i feel like i want to grind for a bit (like remnant 2 just did recently) i can stop playing as much and grind that out without feeling like i have lost everything due to not playing for a few weeks.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I've actually commented on this in several threads over time, though I believe most frequently about tanks rather than healers. I generally enjoy the way they structure the classes within a role. For someone like me with relatively limited time to play (at least compared to years ago), knowing that every tank, for example, is going to have the same baseline set of abilities (e.g. an attack combo-sequence, a Bulwark, a larger 20% dmg reduction, an immunity, etc.) and then augment it with some unique specific skills - it makes it much more feasible to try out the different classes and see what I enjoy most. I'm confident I'll have the basic idea of what to do, and can focus my limited time on learning those specific abilities that make the class distinct.

Healers are even more varied in that regard, with the separation between "pure" healers and "shield" healers. And DPS even more so with the mix of melee, ranged, physical, magical, etc.. Heck, even within magical DPS a BLM plays very different than an RDM.

As to your question regarding perceived difficulty (we'll ignore the wild inaccuracies of your personal take on "rating" them), what developer wants to spend time creating a class that very few people will play? FFXIV of today is the WoW of 2005 (while the WoW of today has become the EQ of 2005). It's the MMO targeted most directly at casual gamers who are looking for a relaxed, fun experience playing a game. It's part of what helped WoW become the first mega-blockbuster MMO, and part of what is driving FFXIV to thrive today and continue growing with each expansion. (And heck, some of WoW's big changes like introducing different raid difficulties, LFR, etc., was in large part because such a minuscule % of the playerbase was actually engaging in the raids. It was demoralizing to put so much work into making something that so few people were actually doing.)





Are you okay, Titan? I almost feel sorry for you.

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If you have limited time why not just be happy with one class you know how to play, why force the rest of us to play watered down copy cat classes because you want to feel “comfortable” on every class you play

And as for your second point about why should square make classes like that well it’s because if you actually read the data on this I sent a few pages ago that type of class already existed and people liked it more than they like current healers so…….

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Originally Posted by Striker44

For someone like me with relatively limited time to play

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Ah, I see. Your job demands much of your time. After all, no one else is going to defend Square Enix on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Someone needs to learn what "literally" means. Personally, I haven't heard any complaints about it game, and I myself enjoy healing.

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Will you address Theodric's expose of your litany of claims made with absolutely no data? Or are you content to mass report everyone on the forums?

op seems like the type of person who gets personal fulfillment by making contrary claims and hoovering up the fall out

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Originally Posted by Koros

Seriously, I don't even know where people get the idea that 7.0 is going to fix or even partially fix the problems with this game, it's not just one or two people, it's like the majority of the playerbase.

If you don't like the game at all, unironically save yourself the money and quit now because at this point this game is irredeemable. There's literally no point in waiting for 7.0 to fix anything. Spoiler: they won't. Only reason to stick to this game is for secondary, non-game purposes.

Let me just spoil the ending for all of you: FF14 is going to start failing, slowly, Square Enix is going to put this on maintenance mode in like 8.0 or 9.0 or something, maybe they'll try to revitalize it but fail.

CBU3 has like literally no idea how to make interesting progression systems, there is not a single exploratory content or horizontal content that succeeded with the entire playerbase. They just don't know how. They also fired some devs and leads who disagreed with the vision of the game (rumor), clearly they're not open to feedback either. So don't huff the copium really, no need to wait for 7.0. It's already over.

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Doom and gloom, in other news lunch was awesome today!

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Originally Posted by Griss

op seems like the type of person who gets personal fulfillment by making contrary claims and hoovering up the fall out

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If it's that contrary why did it get 40 likes

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’ve yet to see renathras or striker even present an argument for why all 4 healers need to be 4 versions of watered down 4.0 WHM (including having useless gauges)

Let’s be super generous and say they actually are the majority and the playerbase is satisfied with healers on the whole (I’ve presented evidence to the contrary but let’s go hypothetical) there is still a strong undercurrent of being annoyed at modern healers (especially from the older playerbase), what’s stopping them from making 1 or 2 of the 4 healers something that we want

If current WHM is a 1 and HW SCH is a 100 on the scale of difficulty then current AST is about a 15 and current SCH is about a 7, why is it impossible to conceive one of them could be a 75, not every healer needs to accomodate people who spam diagnosis and call it a playstyle

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To be fair to the guy (great another part of the forums he's antagonizing), he does say he wants 3/4 of the healers to be 'more than they are', ie AST gets more support effects from cards, SGE gets more Disc-Priest-like, and SCH gets it's DOTs back. The issue I have with his take (and probably others), is that he insists one of the healers must stay 'as is' because some players like the current playstyle. Now, I went to university for this kinda stuff, so I had a crack at making a redesign for WHM. Since then I've actually managed to come up with 'something' for each of the healers, but let's take WHM since it's the one Ren really wants to keep the same.

My redesign, from a 'damage rotation' perspective, reduces the duration on Dia to 12s (refresh it 5x per min instead of 2x), and adds a new instantcast GCD called Water/Banish (Stone/Glare upgrade style), with a separate 15s CD so you'd use it 4 times a minute. I have done the maths, to balance the current rotation as we know it now, and the hypothetical rotation from playing this new design optimally, such that the difference between playing that new design 'as we do now' (that is to say, refresh Dia on CD, Glare spam, ignore Banish) and the 'full optimization' of that new design, as 160 potency per minute. That difference is comically small, crit variance would play a bigger role.

Alongside that one extra GCD damage skill, I also had listed:
Blessing of the Elementals, a GCD AOE heal that costs a new Gauge built by doing damage or healing with non Lily heals, and empowers Glare, Dia and Banish into...
3 Elemental Capstone skills, Quake Tornado and Flood, which would replace Glare/Dia/Banish on your bars for one GCD (their potency gains over their basic forms makes BOTE damage neutral)
Stoneskin > Afflatus Bastion and Sanctuary, ST and AOE Shield generating Lily spenders to reduce your wasted healing thanks to 'have to prep Misery for raidbuffs'. Weaker than SCH/SGE shields to keep them relevant
Protect > Plenary, actually one of Ren's ideas ironically, giving WHM a 60s mit to compete with AST's bubble
Divine Seal back as a lower level Temperance (without the mit), upgrading to Temperance at 80
Cleric Stance as a simple 10% damage increase for 10s, on a 60s CD, to give WHM a burst window cadence similar to NIN's Trick/Mug
Afflatus Tragedy, a lower version of Misery that deals 800p (would be comparing to 4 Stone IVs which is 880, so still a loss but not as bad as current pre-Misery where it's 100% lost potency)
A trait that has Cure1 upgrade to Cure2, keeping it's MP cost at 500 for both
A trait that has Medica 1 upgrade to Medica 2, keeping it's MP cost at 1000 for both
A trait that has Cure 3's MP cost halve from 1500 to 750 if the WHM is under the effect of Medica 2's HOT

Oh yeh, and some niche wants: Lilybell is reduced to 3 charges, but 90s CD (gives it a niche of 'it's up twice as often' as an answer to the sheer power of Macrocosmos), Tetra finally getting 2 charges, and swapping Rapture/PI's learn levels so Rapture's at 70 and can be used in UCOB

And since it's in HB tags to save space/make the message less long, I can do this: here's a video of me using the current rotation, and here's a video of me simulating my proposed design's rotation. With just one added button, and one shortened DOT duration, we can see from this that the impact on the rotation would be surprisingly large. It'd take time to relearn, sure, but we have to relearn DPS rotations each time an expansion comes out, and I see this as being no different.

Also because I love to repost them and illustrate the current situation/what we could have if SE just stole my ideas (please, I'm begging them to), here are two graphs, one is our current 'GCDs used in 1 min as WHM' and the other is 'GCDs used in 1 min on Samantha's redesigned WHM':

https://i.gyazo.com/f2668a932c11a85c...0eabf84c89.png https://i.gyazo.com/613e394c07733c89...f021fadf76.png

So yeh, all in all, the majority by far of my changes to WHM would be healing/mit/support stuff, not damage. Yet Ren objects. He has told me that I'd be causing groups the world over to wipe, because the healers would not be able to handle the complexity bump, lose DPS and hit enrage timers. All because of a 160p per minute difference (just over half a Glare). See, the issue isn't that 'it'd be too hard for casuals', me and others who make these kind of ideas make sure to consider that. That's what we have to deal with when Ren gets involved, basically every time. The kind of mentality we (and I guess by extension the devs) have to work around whenever it comes to considering 'what can we do to salvage this dying role'. I think he yearns for the good old days of 'cast Rejuvenation on each raid member, one at a time', but I don't exactly see 'put Regen on every raid member one at a time to conserve MP' as particularly thrilling gameplay. After all, it just swaps us from using one button (Glare) constantly, to a different button (Regen), used at the same rate. Same issue, but now at least the number's green, woo!

It'd be fine if it was just 'yeh let's make all the healers more interesting, but keep WHM as the relatively simple/easy to get into one' (as I aimed for with above suggestion). Again, the issue is that he wants to have one left exactly as it currently is re: how it does damage, which would likely become ostracized by the community for being 'the trash one' or 'the one noobs play', we saw SB WHM get dunked on for 2 years and we don't need it to happen again. Funny enough, my SGE design leaves the SGE damage kit almost entirely untouched, instead focusing more on improving how it converts damage to healing (and making Toxicon a bit more interesting than just being 'scuffed Ruin 2'), but I guess Ren didn't bother reading that one. Must have seen 'Samantha is adding an extra damage GCD to WHM' and mentally tuned the rest of the thread out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheNight

If it's that contrary why did it get 40 likes

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People respect the Drakon Grind (tm), nobody else is able to create as many inflammatory threads in General as fast as he, his fingers are so fast they're probably classed as lethal weapons in multiple states