why the crystal tower raids are still part of the roulette?

Because if they weren't, they probably wouldn't be done. Helps new players get through it quicker.

Personally, I think they should increase the rewards, to like 100 tomes of the current tier. Maybe then if actually bother doing them...

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Because if they weren't, they probably wouldn't be done. Helps new players get through it quicker.

Personally, I think they should increase the rewards, to like 100 tomes of the current tier. Maybe then if actually bother doing them...

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Tbf, it is also one of the two roulettes where running it as the "in need" class will bag you some cracked clusters for buying materia.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Tbf, it is also one of the two roulettes where running it as the "in need" class will bag you some cracked clusters for buying materia.

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I would not exactly consider Antho and Dendro cluster a rare resource...

https://i.imgur.com/lnJtd43.png

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

People have proposed numerous potential solutions in this thread and others like it across the internet, but so far I've seen no compelling solution that does not cause problems elsewhere.
I would say that their decision making is not poor, but merely not to your liking.

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I would wager many of the proposed solutions do wind up with a far better one than the one we're being subjected to here, e.g., there's very little downside to splitting alliance according to, say, Level 50/60, 70/80/90. Equally, there's very little reason not to buff the Loathsome memories, or to award them from completion of Alliance roulette itself, rather than just for Crystal Tower. Unless, you can of course tell me a downside to this?

No, I would still call it poor decision-making when their decisions have left certain duties in the roulette oversaturated, especially to the extent that it has become a common point of complaint. I neither like it nor do I find it a good decision on their part. Initially, the MSQ for Shadowbringers was designed so that Crystal Tower wasn't a requirement - Something they added later on in a patch - Arguably anything pertinent to the Shadowbringers story, that was also relevant to the Crystal Tower could have, nay, should have been included within the MSQ as a summary of sorts. - This way, people could do Crystal Tower of their own volition if they wanted to do so.

Furthermore, there is no universe where relic item attainment should have been attached to a very specific raid series (Knowing full well they've saturated it enough with story requirement) - When the easier and much more realistic viable alternative is to just attach it to the roulette rather than specific duties itself, and I am referring to the Law's Order relic step here. This was an extremely poor decision regardless of how you look at it, with arguably even smaller foresight.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I wouldn't say make them required for MSQ, but make them required for the roulette. As long as your character has a class at level 60, you must have Mhach unlocked, 70 must have Ivalice, and so on until they stop adding alliance raids. Since leveling roulette works on the same principle as what I'm saying(only those duties you are of a sufficient level to access are relevant for the class currently queued as). They would, of course, need to remove the ability to ilvl cheese it.

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This would hurt people on Road to 80 servers. I have multiple level 70 characters on my Marilith alt and *just* hit SB. I was well into 60 still in the middle of HW. So people should just be locked out of their daily because SE makes them level too fast?

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Tbf, it is also one of the two roulettes where running it as the "in need" class will bag you some cracked clusters for buying materia.

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Easier and faster to get materia with hunts to be honest contrary to wiping in world of darkness because people love to stare at giant threatening red eyes

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

With all due respect, players shouldn't be disproportionately placed in a particular series of raids in the roulette either, purely because they elected to take, what is quite possibly the most poorly executed decision-making that they've done in a long, long time. Let me posit the other question to you -- Why should people be consistently nigh on placed in the same instance, or a subset of instances time, and time again, and all because SE thought it was a glorious decision to overextend the amount of content tied to the Crystal Tower? Yes, it takes 1 person to force 23 other people into a particular instance, and this becomes a problem when said instances have too much content tied to them.

Your first two opening statements already highlight why it is a very clear issue, and why said decisions were abysmal. One is designed so that it is a requisite for the MSQ, and well the latter part of your statement infers that people do not want to do them, and have only done so on the basis that it is a requirement for the story. [Edit: When it comes to something such as the alliance raids, players should be encouraged to participate across them all, equally.]

There is no universe where their current situation is good wrt alliance raids.

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It’s what the devs decided to do; when you join a roulette, you agree by the rules of how the roulette functions and agree to take whatever comes. If you specifically want to do something else/specific, you have the option to queue for that.

The point of the roulette is to help people who need bodies getting through the content they have unlocked and are geared to do. An unfortunate subset of players will purposefully game the system, but I would wager it is by far less than people are complaining about.

To change it is to waste time on very niche coding, or to force people to do content they don’t want to (HW and later raids), or force people to buy/find gear to do a thing they were already allowed to do. Your boredom or dissatisfaction at getting the same ol same ol is irrelevant.

So, even though you don’t like it, in the 8 or so years the system has been in place, the Devs have been satisfied and not interested in making major changes. People getting bored is not the priority- there is other content you can engage in. See Castrum for situation where major changes WERE made, forcing people who were “bored of waiting for cutscenes” to wait for the newbie.

The priority is the hyper-casuals/first time MMOers who would just as soon quit and go play candy crush, not the “oh man I gotta do this again…” crowd.

Or, TL;DR: Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I would wager many of the proposed solutions do wind up with a far better one than the one we're being subjected to here, e.g., there's very little downside to splitting alliance according to, say, Level 50/60, 70/80/90.

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I don’t think you understand how many of the people running roulettes are on free trial accounts or statistically leveling low jobs. Or there are people like me who would never run the 70+ on purpose. Or there are people who wouldn’t iLVL cheese because morals, but with this system they can essentially have the same result by guaranteeing they don’t get a 70+ raid.

You would only make the 70+ roulettes take longer to pop….

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I would not exactly consider Antho and Dendro cluster a rare resource...

https://i.imgur.com/lnJtd43.png

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I didn't say that they were, sorry if that's the impression you got.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Easier and faster to get materia with hunts to be honest contrary to wiping in world of darkness because people love to stare at giant threatening red eyes

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This is just a me thing, but I kinda prefer wiping in WoD.
IMO duties are more fun when they're going badly. Means I have to actually try.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I would wager many of the proposed solutions do wind up with a far better one than the one we're being subjected to here, e.g., there's very little downside to splitting alliance according to, say, Level 50/60, 70/80/90. Equally, there's very little reason not to buff the Loathsome memories, or to award them from completion of Alliance roulette itself, rather than just for Crystal Tower. Unless, you can of course tell me a downside to this?

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One of the reasons roulette exist in the first place is to get people populating older content. It makes it so that newer players don't struggle to get groups as they're moving through the story. It's not perfect, but for the most part it fulfills that purpose.
If you put one of the more hated Araids in it's own separate roulette, then you're only going to make it harder for new players to get a group together for it.

The only reason people still do the MSQ roulette is because of the bonkers rewards you get for it, but there's no reason for them to provide the same for a CT roulette when they can just slot it into an existing roulette. Something that previously couldn't be done (and probably still can't) for the MSQ instances due to how different they are from other duties.

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No, I would still call it poor decision-making when their decisions have left certain duties in the roulette oversaturated, especially to the extent that it has become a common point of complaint. I neither like it nor do I find it a good decision on their part. Initially, the MSQ for Shadowbringers was designed so that Crystal Tower wasn't a requirement - Something they added later on in a patch - Arguably anything pertinent to the Shadowbringers story, that was also relevant to the Crystal Tower could have, nay, should have been included within the MSQ as a summary of sorts. - This way, people could do Crystal Tower of their own volition if they wanted to do so.

Furthermore, there is no universe where relic item attainment should have been attached to a very specific raid series (Knowing full well they've saturated it enough with story requirement) - When the easier and much more realistic viable alternative is to just attach it to the roulette rather than specific duties itself, and I am referring to the Law's Order relic step here. This was an extremely poor decision regardless of how you look at it, with arguably even smaller foresight.

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I don't think there's much more to discuss here, cause it seems we just fundamentally disagree

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Because if they weren't, they probably wouldn't be done. Helps new players get through it quicker.

Personally, I think they should increase the rewards, to like 100 tomes of the current tier. Maybe then if actually bother doing them...

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how moving them to a different place hurts the new players. why WE OLDER players must all the time pay in the fun we can gave for the new players? why cant they get its good as well as we are?

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Originally Posted by kaynide

It’s what the devs decided to do; when you join a roulette, you agree by the rules of how the roulette functions and agree to take whatever comes. If you specifically want to do something else/specific, you have the option to queue for that.

The point of the roulette is to help people who need bodies getting through the content they have unlocked and are geared to do. An unfortunate subset of players will purposefully game the system, but I would wager it is by far less than people are complaining about.

To change it is to waste time on very niche coding, or to force people to do content they don’t want to (HW and later raids), or force people to buy/find gear to do a thing they were already allowed to do. Your boredom or dissatisfaction at getting the same ol same ol is irrelevant.

So, even though you don’t like it, in the 8 or so years the system has been in place, the Devs have been satisfied and not interested in making major changes. People getting bored is not the priority- there is other content you can engage in. See Castrum for situation where major changes WERE made, forcing people who were “bored of waiting for cutscenes” to wait for the newbie.

The priority is the hyper-casuals/first time MMOers who would just as soon quit and go play candy crush, not the “oh man I gotta do this again…” crowd.

Or, TL;DR: Working as intended.



I don’t think you understand how many of the people running roulettes are on free trial accounts or statistically leveling low jobs. Or there are people like me who would never run the 70+ on purpose. Or there are people who wouldn’t iLVL cheese because morals, but with this system they can essentially have the same result by guaranteeing they don’t get a 70+ raid.

You would only make the 70+ roulettes take longer to pop….

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yes the devs and "god yoshi" made a really stupide easy to see mistake. one that easy to fix as well. the problem is yoshi and his ego. he really not willing to admit he made a F mistake. how much of the cornet problems are because yoshi wanted something to be a certain way even if its was a clear mistake ?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

This would hurt people on Road to 80 servers. I have multiple level 70 characters on my Marilith alt and *just* hit SB. I was well into 60 still in the middle of HW. So people should just be locked out of their daily because SE makes them level too fast?

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It's fine to hurt those leveling up as opposed to stab at veterans, it's a choice I always will make.

New players don't pay my sub

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Originally Posted by raelgun

It's fine to hurt those leveling up as opposed to stab at veterans, it's a choice I always will make.

New players don't pay my sub

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or just do not hurt any one. there some easy ways to make so all get it good. now no one do. i personally know lots of people that DO WANT TO DO OTHERE ALLIANCE RAIDS but cant as they wait times are longer that the time they have to play. all of them are people that plays a year or less so new players. the current stat of things not exactly help new players that much as well. to do msq maybe but what after it?

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Originally Posted by raelgun

It's fine to hurt those leveling up as opposed to stab at veterans, it's a choice I always will make.

New players don't pay my sub

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No but they keep the lights on.
An MMO without new players is a stagnant one, and a far less profitable one.

The only way an MMO can sustain itself off veterans alone is if those veterans are absolute whales.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

No but they keep the lights on.
An MMO without new players is a stagnant one, and a far less profitable one.

The only way an MMO can sustain itself off veterans alone is if those veterans are absolute whales.

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sad but you are correct to a point. a game like ff14 can live on the veterans just fine but new players bring in the big cash bursts

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

sad but you are correct to a point. a game like ff14 can live on the veterans just fine but new players bring in the big cash bursts

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I don't think that's true. New players aren't more likely to bring in cash "bursts", but they replenish the sub fees lost by those older players leaving for one reason or another.
I'm also not convinced it would survive for long with only vets. Might stumble along for an expansion or two, but without new blood, the game will feel a lot more dead, especially with how much of it is geared towards new and leveling players. That's my opinion, anyhow.

but they are as they BUY the game when older players d not. they can buy some extra cash shop things when older players did it by now. now to survive of the vets mostly yoshi will need to humble the F. he will need to stop pretend as if he is THE PLAYERS and start hearing what players really want. we all know he socks at this. so there a big 50/50 if ff14 can live off veterans or not.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

but they are as they BUY the game when older players d not. they can buy some extra cash shop things when older players did it by now. now to survive of the vets mostly yoshi will need to humble the F. he will need to stop pretend as if he is THE PLAYERS and start hearing what players really want. we all know he socks at this. so there a big 50/50 if ff14 can live off veterans or not.

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That's not really a cash "burst" though is it? It's just steady income as new players come in, buy the game and a sub.

I think anyone claiming to know what the "players" want, is 9 times out of 10 talking bollocks, even players.
A lot of the time players don't even themselves know what they want, and most of the time it's going to be determined by what echo chambers they choose to reside in.

I think Yoshi and the team do a good job. They have a clear vision for the game, even if that's not for everyone, and they are willing to take into account player feedback on the little details like balance and QoL.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

That's not really a cash "burst" though is it? It's just steady income as new players come in, buy the game and a sub.

I think anyone claiming to know what the "players" want, is 9 times out of 10 talking bollocks, even players.
A lot of the time players don't even themselves know what they want, and most of the time it's going to be determined by what echo chambers they choose to reside in.

I think Yoshi and the team do a good job. They have a clear vision for the game, even if that's not for everyone, and they are willing to take into account player feedback on the little details like balance and QoL.

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I think anyone claiming to know what the "players" want, is 9 times out of 10 talking bollocks, even players.?? well clearly i can say what i want may be some people i know. if you as a dev give half a fuck you ask the players and see what most want. then start to do what the most want and go on as long as its not contradict one one another . clearly yoshi never cared.
A lot of the time players don't even themselves know what they want?? i mostly know what i want. think is each player can want different things that not necessarily work at the same time.
I think Yoshi and the team did good in 2.0, really great in 3.0. dropped the ball in 4.0. got unbelievably well made expansion in 5.0 but then the ball was dropped even more in the later patches. they got lucky in the same time people was feed on WOW and ff14 was the only big mmo at the time that was not dead. then the fails of new world bring them even more players. by now the game bleed players. most of the wow players returned to wow. new world is some wat ok now so some people returned there as well.
lots of older players that are the most important to make happy are not happy as we get more pf the same and problems being ignored. new content fails to last for even a weak by now. at this point the game lives on a BIG part of the players that play this as an online sims over an mmorpg. so i cant say yoshi doing good job, the devs are. to bad yoshi calls all the shots and devs need to work for free out of work hours to add things they want to the game.
as to take into account player feedback, show ne when was the last time they did so? go ask the healers.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

No but they keep the lights on.
An MMO without new players is a stagnant one, and a far less profitable one.

The only way an MMO can sustain itself off veterans alone is if those veterans are absolute whales.

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Haha, please tell me how the game has more content per patch, how the patch cycle is shorter oh wait. Get back to me on that one.
Game did fine in the past with a smaller base then now, you need to focus on vets to keep the light on and push devs to push out more and timely good content

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

yes the devs and "god yoshi" made a really stupide easy to see mistake. one that easy to fix as well. the problem is yoshi and his ego. he really not willing to admit he made a F mistake. how much of the cornet problems are because yoshi wanted something to be a certain way even if its was a clear mistake ?

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Weird how you fast you go to “ah mer gerd YoshiP!” / You must hate this game!

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

easy its because its something yoshi made. what ever he do and say is god ward to this people.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

the yoshi worshipers don't like or hate any thing. what yoshi do is the gods work and they expecting it.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

ye ye game is perfect Yoshi is your god. ye ye no problems just stfu and don't talk.
that's how people like you sounds like

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

so what you say is you hate to play the game so much you don't want more things just go in and out as fast as humanly possible?

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You might not understand this, and that is ok:

Some people like how the game works, as is. Just because they disagree with you on this thing doesn’t mean they suddenly find the game in its entirety to be flawless.

If you read/remembered what regular posters say here you find a lot of us (myself included) are highly critical of the game. But here? Nah. It’s fine.

That or you do get it but you are stirring up trouble for the sake of your internet lols, in which case, i would say there are better uses of time but you do you.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Weird how you fast you go to “ah mer gerd YoshiP!” / You must hate this game!









You might not understand this, and that is ok:

Some people like how the game works, as is. Just because they disagree with you on this thing doesn’t mean they suddenly find the game in its entirety to be flawless.

If you read/remembered what regular posters say here you find a lot of us (myself included) are highly critical of the game. But here? Nah. It’s fine.

That or you do get it but you are stirring up trouble for the sake of your internet lols, in which case, i would say there are better uses of time but you do you.

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"they disagree with you on this thing doesn’t mean they suddenly find the game in its entirety to be flawless" clearly not. even i do not find it so.
i do see people don't want to play the game longer if they can play it less, that the way i read it. now the problem can be fixed in an easy way that do not hurt the new players and not the old ones. move this raids to the msq roulette as they are for what ever reason part of the msq. or make it a new roulette over all. that way people that don't want this raids be happy and the people that want this raids be as well.
how can you say its a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

YoshiP has brought up bringing Gaia back into the story before, which would make the Eden raids hyper-relevant to even know who Gaia is, which is a similar case to what happened to CT, so I wonder how they will handle that if that happens.

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You seem to be assuming she would be brought into MSQ. I think it's more likely that Eden will be rolled into a continuation of the Void Quests at the Crystarium, in which case the next chapter of those raids would be locked behind Eden completion but it wouldn't be mandatory for anything else.

for the original thing of this thread...who cares. queue or don't. theres what 14 alliance raids. if you happen to get one only might be time to give the roulette a break for a few days and go back.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You seem to be assuming she would be brought into MSQ. I think it's more likely that Eden will be rolled into a continuation of the Void Quests at the Crystarium, in which case the next chapter of those raids would be locked behind Eden completion but it wouldn't be mandatory for anything else.

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i get it as if she be part of the msq

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

for the original thing of this thread...who cares. queue or don't. theres what 14 alliance raids. if you happen to get one only might be time to give the roulette a break for a few days and go back.

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problem is its the 2.x raids onlly there, i did not get any thing but them for 99% of the time. last day i did a test, out of 15 runs of the roulette only on the 15 time i got a different one, was fun finally. to bad i was need to take 30 min 14 time to het there.

I can see why Crystal Tower is in the roulette after today run. Alliance A was all new players and caused the whole alliance to wipe 2 times during the crystal tower raid. Twice because their tank kept pulling the end boss to their spot from the main tank that was tanking it in the right spot. Then when he went to the middle to cast the wide area AOE, they kept attacking him only one on their team went to their spot.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You seem to be assuming she would be brought into MSQ. I think it's more likely that Eden will be rolled into a continuation of the Void Quests at the Crystarium, in which case the next chapter of those raids would be locked behind Eden completion but it wouldn't be mandatory for anything else.

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For what's worth, I'd consider to be natural to bring her into the MSQ next due to the current focus on the Void and darkness in general, and she has a very strong connection to darkness, so it felt natural to assume that YoshiP meant in the MSQ, she also has a unique trait among sidestory characters in that she has a voice actress, due to her having voiced lines during the raids, which ends up giving her the vibes of a MSQ character.

Remodel Crystal Tower raids into 8 man tutorial raids for the baby sprouts and put it in MSQ roulettes for double or triple the tome stones and EXP.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Remodel Crystal Tower raids into 8 man tutorial raids for the baby sprouts and put it in MSQ roulettes for double or triple the tome stones and EXP.

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They should stay that way, just make the bosses beefier and hit harder in response.

Both the CT and Coil raids are in dire need of a rework due to the significance of their stories, along with receiving an update of their rewards.

I completely agree with the point of Coils, as it stands, Alisaie doesn't make sense as a character when the game reintroduces her in post-HW, because she has a great deal of attachment to the WoL out of nowhere, it's just less of an issue because people are willing to accept that the MC is instantly loved, but if you have taken the time to play through Coils, you have helped her to find closure about her grandfather's death and briefly reunite with him, as well as find the resolve to keep moving forward with his legacy, it makes perfect sense then for her to have developed an attachment to you, it also explains how you can summon Phoenix as a SMN, because you have fought Phoenix and bathed in his Aether much like what happened to the 3 elemental Primals and Bahamut, as well as Louis becoming Phoenix as a counterpart to Bahamut adds a lot of context to why both of them are your Demi-Summons as SMN.

And a lot of people fail to understand any of that because Coils is a total bitch to get through, it's reasonably unsync-able at level 90(even tier 1 and 2 Savage is doable unsync solo at 90), it's how I did it when I ran through it for the story, but it also makes it very hard to get through it if you want to do it immediately after ARR, and then they are liable to never go back and do it, meaning they never get that part of the story.