Please stop putting the Crystalline Conflict Glamour Coffer at Rank 25

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Just to clarify, Frontlines matches do not go into overtime. They will stop at 20 mins and the GC with the highest score will win, even if noone has hit the goal.

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I know, that's why I said "without overtime rather than "discounting overtime" in the case of CC.

Frontlines is just not a feasible option if you are trying to really grind series levels efficiently. The glam coffer tier requires 7.5k exp per series level. I clocked it yesterday when I was finishing my last levels, and it took me roughly 1 hour to earn one level on that tier in CC. Frontlines in no way can reach the same amount of exp in the same amount of time. Even the most perfect scenario of instant queues, hard stomping and winning each game, would fall short (most likely).

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

Well I grinded the last 15 series levels I needed for the coffer yesterday, just so I can nag a bit lmao. And yes, the best advice that was posted few pages back about learning to enjoy/not care about losing is the most effective advice if you are looking to grind the thing in a short amount of time.

I think they should ultimately let you buy the coffer, or individual pieces of the glam, with trophy crystals. This would mean that if you just happen to accumulate enough trophy crystals during several series but never manage to hit 25 for whatever reason, you can still obtain the glam. You get 19k trophy crystals in the series rewards before level 25, so I think 20k trophy crystals for the glam coffer would be just fine (so max amount of trophy cystals you can hold at one time), and still a considerable grind that would force you to partake in PvP nonetheless. Alternatively they could sell each individual piece for 5k or so trophy crystals, so if you are only interested in one or two pieces, you don't have to do the whole grind just for a few pieces, but instead go for 5-6 levels instead.

Considering there are also several other options to spend your trophy crystals for, I don't think this would be a completely bad alternative.

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Obviously values of the sets would be up for debate, but i think this is a really good idea. They could do it where once the series "ends", they put the previous series rewards into a trophy crystal shop. This removes the silly fomo and provides an additional use for the trophy crystals :]

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

Obviously values of the sets would be up for debate, but i think this is a really good idea. They could do it where once the series "ends", they put the previous series rewards into a trophy crystal shop. This removes the silly fomo and provides an additional use for the trophy crystals :]

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Basically this.

Can even make the full set the equivalent in Trophy Crystals to farming out the 25 levels, too, if you really want people to earn it.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

That is... staggeringly low, almost insulting. In Crystalline Conflict, on average the match lasts 5min discounting overtime, prep time and queue time, giving you 900 S-EXP for winning and 700 S-EXP for losing.

If I read the descriptions on Frontlines right, they can last up to 20min without overtime. For even the 1st Place to be worth the input regarding Series EXP, it would need to net like 3600-4000 S-EXP for 1st place, going down to like 3200-3500 for 2nd Place and about 3000 for 3rd Place, assuming a match went for 18-20min.

1500 for first place is paltry.

Ill await your results, but honestly this is just brutal. It should not need to take an avid Frontline player this much longer than a Crystalline Conflict player to reach Rank 25, the input:output ratio is completely messed up.

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I mean, yeah. You're not wrong. I actually forgot how much CC gave, so I thought FL was a higher return but turns out it's not. ANYWHO! Results are basically as I listed. I enlisted a couple friends to help out. We queued individually for 3 matches each. Just the basic queue, no roulette queue. I would do more but I am currently sick, so I put in the amount I had the energy for. Might try more later because...there's something I need to investigate. BUT! Yeah, image below has each post match 'reward' of wolf marks and S-EXP.

I just got a 1st, 2nd, 3rd. One friend got a 1st and two 2nd places. And the other got a 1st and two 3rd places. 1st is 1.5k, 2nd is 1,250, and 3rd is just 1k. WEIRDLY friend A got a 2nd place that gave double rewards and he has no idea how. That's what I want to look into. But overall, yeah, FL could give more for how much longer it is. I will say, out of the three of us, I had the 'longest' match at 12 minutes and 15 seconds. Every other match was around 10 to 11 minutes for all 3 of us. But, match times CAN drag out or shorten depending on the map.

https://i.imgur.com/cwaDT6o.png

Hope that helps. Hope yall have a great day. Cheers.

Frontline giving more series experience would also be fine as opposed to the other things I mentioned.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

I mean, yeah. You're not wrong. I actually forgot how much CC gave, so I thought FL was a higher return but turns out it's not. ANYWHO! Results are basically as I listed. I enlisted a couple friends to help out. We queued individually for 3 matches each. Just the basic queue, no roulette queue. I would do more but I am currently sick, so I put in the amount I had the energy for. Might try more later because...there's something I need to investigate. BUT! Yeah, image below has each post match 'reward' of wolf marks and S-EXP.

I just got a 1st, 2nd, 3rd. One friend got a 1st and two 2nd places. And the other got a 1st and two 3rd places. 1st is 1.5k, 2nd is 1,250, and 3rd is just 1k. WEIRDLY friend A got a 2nd place that gave double rewards and he has no idea how. That's what I want to look into. But overall, yeah, FL could give more for how much longer it is. I will say, out of the three of us, I had the 'longest' match at 12 minutes and 15 seconds. Every other match was around 10 to 11 minutes for all 3 of us. But, match times CAN drag out or shorten depending on the map.

https://i.imgur.com/cwaDT6o.png

Hope that helps. Hope yall have a great day. Cheers.

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the 2,2k one is 2nd + i think daily frontline roulette gives 1k series exp

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Frontline giving more series experience would also be fine as opposed to the other things I mentioned.

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i am absolutely on board with this idea. I haven't had the faintest that the EXP payout was so bad in FL (and probably in RW too by any stretch) and I know a lot of ppl play FL who complained similar how you did.

So yeah, FL Series EXP needs a serious boost.

Frontline roulette daily should at least give a bigger bonus. You barely get anything from frontline for the amount of time you have to put in. I stopped at rank 15 as I just couldn't be bothered grinding to 25 again. It's simply far too much for a game mode that has died a death. Either that or add the mech walker pvp mode to it, I actually liked that one but it never pops.

If you need a FOMO pass to make people play PVP, it has already failed.

Your PVP is on life support and given in 10 years it has never had any major appeal, it's probably time to let it go.

"bUt aLl tHe hArD wOrK aNd dEvElOpMeNt tImE! dOn'T sAy tHaT iT mAkEs uS sAd tO hEaR!"

Sunken cost fallacy. Fact of the matter is that PVP is a buggy, janky, unpleasant mess AT BEST, and unplayable at worst if your ping is even slightly sub-optimal. Constantly coercing players to play a certain amount of PVP per patch cycle to avoid missing out on FOMO pass rewards is gross and disrespectful of the player's time, something people usually say FFXIV DOESN'T do.

Stop accepting poor design decisions and properly complain about how if PVP can't survive without a heavy handed bribe in the form of the Series Malmstone system, it probably shouldn't survive at all.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

If you need a FOMO pass to make people play PVP, it has already failed.

Your PVP is on life support and given in 10 years it has never had any major appeal, it's probably time to let it go.

"bUt aLl tHe hArD wOrK aNd dEvElOpMeNt tImE! dOn'T sAy tHaT iT mAkEs uS sAd tO hEaR!"

Sunken cost fallacy. Fact of the matter is that PVP is a buggy, janky, unpleasant mess AT BEST, and unplayable at worst if your ping is even slightly sub-optimal. Constantly coercing players to play a certain amount of PVP per patch cycle to avoid missing out on FOMO pass rewards is gross and disrespectful of the player's time, something people usually say FFXIV DOESN'T do.

Stop accepting poor design decisions and properly complain about how if PVP can't survive without a heavy handed bribe in the form of the Series Malmstone system, it probably shouldn't survive at all.

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I don't know why PvP is the only thing in the is game that people are seemingly okay with FOMO rewards. When even seasonal event rewards at least eventually go to the Cash shop. Even Fan fest items end up there. But PvP? Naw people draw the line with it there.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

If you need a FOMO pass to make people play PVP, it has already failed.

Your PVP is on life support and given in 10 years it has never had any major appeal, it's probably time to let it go.

"bUt aLl tHe hArD wOrK aNd dEvElOpMeNt tImE! dOn'T sAy tHaT iT mAkEs uS sAd tO hEaR!"

Sunken cost fallacy. Fact of the matter is that PVP is a buggy, janky, unpleasant mess AT BEST, and unplayable at worst if your ping is even slightly sub-optimal. Constantly coercing players to play a certain amount of PVP per patch cycle to avoid missing out on FOMO pass rewards is gross and disrespectful of the player's time, something people usually say FFXIV DOESN'T do.

Stop accepting poor design decisions and properly complain about how if PVP can't survive without a heavy handed bribe in the form of the Series Malmstone system, it probably shouldn't survive at all.

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Your opinion on this is quite a lot more severe than mine, but I do agree with the sentiment that "If you need to lure people into a system with FOMO, then you've failed at developing a system that can stand on its own merits."

I don't mind the malmstone system. Incentives aren't to do content aren't bad on principle, but making them hard-vault locked after an arbitrary amount of time and just torn out of the game for any and all people to get after that is weak and a crutch. So if they intend the bring the rewards back later, then I'm fine with it. At least on the rewards basis.

Can somebody tell my why we are mad?

Because the glam is gone after one season or because the glam is on lvl 25?

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

Your opinion on this is quite a lot more severe than mine, but I do agree with the sentiment that "If you need to lure people into a system with FOMO, then you've failed at developing a system that can stand on its own merits."

I don't mind the malmstone system. Incentives aren't to do content aren't bad on principle, but making them hard-vault locked after an arbitrary amount of time and just torn out of the game for any and all people to get after that is weak and a crutch. So if they intend the bring the rewards back later, then I'm fine with it. At least on the rewards basis.

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The thing is unlike with say, an ARR relic, or completing a series of tribal quests, there's no sense of accomplishment, that my dedication left me with a sense of satisfaction. It leaves me with a sense of "good, now I can just not play the game now that I'm done" which is a REALLY bad thing.

It's actually causing burnout and I hate it. I wanted to do more Orthos, I wanted to try some extremes.

NOPE! PVP IS ON A FOMO PASS, FINISH THAT FIRST OR YOU MISS OUT!

I played consistently through ShB and early EW, but this is just... exhausting in the worst ways.

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

Can somebody tell my why we are mad?

Because the glam is gone after one season or because the glam is on lvl 25?

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I'd say it's the former. Something taking time and dedication to get is fine. Making it time-limited is what makes it feel genuinely awful.

That and that PVP will just never feel good on FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

The thing is unlike with say, an ARR relic, or completing a series of tribal quests, there's no sense of accomplishment, that my dedication left me with a sense of satisfaction. It leaves me with a sense of "good, now I can just not play the game now that I'm done" which is a REALLY bad thing.

It's actually causing burnout and I hate it. I wanted to do more Orthos, I wanted to try some extremes.

NOPE! PVP IS ON A FOMO PASS, FINISH THAT FIRST OR YOU MISS OUT!

I played consistently through ShB and early EW, but this is just... exhausting in the worst ways.

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If you cant do a few games from time to time to get the reward which is the glam, perhaps you dont need it.

Especially now that CC exists, you have a choice between frontlines and crystalline conflict, up to you, if you dont like both of them, then you dont get the glam.

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That and that PVP will just never feel good on FFXIV.

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Then dont do it, you arent forced to.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

If you cant do a few games from time to time to get the reward which is the glam, perhaps you dont need it.

Especially now that CC exists, you have a choice between frontlines and crystalline conflict, up to you, if you dont like both of them, then you dont get the glam.

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Thoughtless drivel that doesn't actually address the core elements of my argument. Please re-read my posts and respond to what I said, rather than the made up argument you thought I said.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

I'd say it's the former. Something taking time and dedication to get is fine. Making it time-limited is what makes it feel genuinely awful.

That and that PVP will just never feel good on FFXIV.

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A Season last a real long time to be honest and reaching lvl 25 is not that hard....its only my opinion but i like playing cc like a mad man and farming for a set that shows the effort. If you can buy it easy on the mogglestation after a few months it would rob ME of my experince and my pride to got it!

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

The thing is unlike with say, an ARR relic, or completing a series of tribal quests, there's no sense of accomplishment, that my dedication left me with a sense of satisfaction. It leaves me with a sense of "good, now I can just not play the game now that I'm done" which is a REALLY bad thing.

It's actually causing burnout and I hate it. I wanted to do more Orthos, I wanted to try some extremes.

NOPE! PVP IS ON A FOMO PASS, FINISH THAT FIRST OR YOU MISS OUT!

I played consistently through ShB and early EW, but this is just... exhausting in the worst ways.

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Hence why I'm in favor of (which they've hinted) bringing old rewards back later in some way. Not sure how, but I assume for Crystal Trophies.

They can easily tie a huge Crystal Trophy amount to the Archfiend attire. Maybe capped or near-capped. That way you still need to do PvP for it, but it's not "hahaha you didn't do it this season go kick rocks"

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

A Season last a real long time to be honest and reaching lvl 25 is not that hard....its only my opinion but i like playing cc like a mad man and farming for a set that shows the effort. If you can buy it easy on the mogglestation after a few months it would rob ME of my experince and my pride to got it!

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What pride? CC is a roulette of how well your teammates play compared to your opponents. Even if you play exceptionally well, which I'm sure you do, you CANNOT win a game by yourself. Considering there is NO WAY to play CC with your friends or a premade group, you have little to no control to how your games go, only your personal performance which is not weighed in your rewards or recognition.

That aside, it's not even the issue. I'm actually at series 19 right now. I could easily do one rank every 2-3 days and probably easily make it to 25 well before 6.4 drops. That's not the problem. I feel burnt out. I had already wanted to take more of a break from FFXIV, but the PVP has forced me to "play a bit here and there" despite not wanting to because I want the rewards from it.

I wouldn't care if it costed 100,000 wolf marks, or required a set number of games like it already does, but that I have to do it on the game's time, not mine, is frustrating. NOTHING else in the game requires THIS much time investment in a limited time frame, and it's all because they know PVP will die without it, so there is their solution.

I would rather see PVP go than keep having to do this, at this rate it may be the reason I leave the game more frequently or even permanently.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

Hence why I'm in favor of (which they've hinted) bringing old rewards back later in some way. Not sure how, but I assume for Crystal Trophies.

They can easily tie a huge Crystal Trophy amount to the Archfiend attire. Maybe capped or near-capped. That way you still need to do PvP for it, but it's not "hahaha you didn't do it this season go kick rocks"

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This would INSTANTLY make me feel better about it. If they just brought it back later as something to spend crystal trophies on I would shut up and just not play PVP except for when I felt like it.

But it hasn't happened yet and we're 3 seasons in.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I don't know why PvP is the only thing in the is game that people are seemingly okay with FOMO rewards. When even seasonal event rewards at least eventually go to the Cash shop. Even Fan fest items end up there. But PvP? Naw people draw the line with it there.

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I don't necessarily like FOMO in any setting, but as far as that goes, CC and its totally-not-a-battle-pass is pretty tame by most standards, especially since the grind is easy and people have plenty of time to complete it if they choose, or they can knock it out in a couple of days if they want it done quickly.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

Hence why I'm in favor of (which they've hinted) bringing old rewards back later in some way. Not sure how, but I assume for Crystal Trophies.

They can easily tie a huge Crystal Trophy amount to the Archfiend attire. Maybe capped or near-capped. That way you still need to do PvP for it, but it's not "hahaha you didn't do it this season go kick rocks"

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Nope, that removes the point of doing it when its current content, also its very easy to get both trophies and also wolf marks, so it just renders the original grind useless.

Leave PVP alone if you dont like it, and let those that like it enjoy it. If you want the glam, you grind it when current, the seasons are very long, if you dont want it, or you dont want to do the grind, then you will miss out, too bad.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

What pride? CC is a roulette of how well your teammates play compared to your opponents. Even if you play exceptionally well, which I'm sure you do, you CANNOT win a game by yourself. Considering there is NO WAY to play CC with your friends or a premade group, you have little to no control to how your games go, only your personal performance which is not weighed in your rewards or recognition.

That aside, it's not even the issue. I'm actually at series 19 right now. I could easily do one rank every 2-3 days and probably easily make it to 25 well before 6.4 drops. That's not the problem. I feel burnt out. I had already wanted to take more of a break from FFXIV, but the PVP has forced me to "play a bit here and there" despite not wanting to because I want the rewards from it.

I wouldn't care if it costed 100,000 wolf marks, or required a set number of games like it already does, but that I have to do it on the game's time, not mine, is frustrating. NOTHING else in the game requires THIS much time investment in a limited time frame, and it's all because they know PVP will die without it, so there is their solution.

I would rather see PVP go than keep having to do this, at this rate it may be the reason I leave the game more frequently or even permanently.



This would INSTANTLY make me feel better about it. If they just brought it back later as something to spend crystal trophies on I would shut up and just not play PVP except for when I felt like it.

But it hasn't happened yet and we're 3 seasons in.

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1. PvP is and was always a team effort, only if you play 1v1 you alone can blame your lose. Thats why i find it funny, because even with randoms and the few things SE gave me to communicat, we scored a win and even if its by pure luck.. well then i'm a lucky little lalafell! After i read your answer, it sounds like you only play for the glam, so you dont even play ranked game, so why is a lose that bad?

2. You CAN play with your friends. Kinda atleast. Most of the times you end in the enemy team but even that CAN be fun, atleast if you troll your mate by targeting him as dragoon ;) But yea, the thing that you cannot form teams sucks a little bit.

3. If you dont want to play, then dont play. I have the mog and its not THAT great. Only you are forcing yourself to play, not FFIV

4. Like i said, a Season lasts long. You could play every day one or two matches and should reach lvl 25 if ya start at beginn of the season.. i think. Can somebody do the math? I suck at math.

5. For me its really.... a entiteld position to say you WANT that everybody can get the set, even after the season because you fear to lose out at something. I invest the time and sweat for the glam and you will get it for little to non effort a few month later? Thats not really fair for me, or is it?

6. On the Note of Nr 5: If they make the pvp glam availebal at a later date for little to non effort. I petition that ultima-weapons will be mogglestation items after a year. So i dont have to get good at raiding.

One thing I wish they would go back and update their wolf mark wares to sell leveling gear beyond lv.60.

The gear afterwards are all lv.1 cosmetics, which yeah its all good, but it would be nice to have an alternate source for lv.70 and lv.80 gear at least when you're out-leveling other jobs while still in previous expansions. Otherwise you'd have to rely on MB to buy upgrades.

Speaking from experience leveling alt characters in Dynamis server where the server exp bonus has you overleveled before you even finish ARR.

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

1. PvP is and was always a team effort, only if you play 1v1 you alone can blame your lose. Thats why i find it funny, because even with randoms and the few things SE gave me to communicat, we scored a win and even if its by pure luck.. well then i'm a lucky little lalafell! After i read your answer, it sounds like you only play for the glam, so you dont even play ranked game, so why is a lose that bad?

2. You CAN play with your friends. Kinda atleast. Most of the times you end in the enemy team but even that CAN be fun, atleast if you troll your mate by targeting him as dragoon ;) But yea, the thing that you cannot form teams sucks a little bit.

3. If you dont want to play, then dont play. I have the mog and its not THAT great. Only you are forcing yourself to play, not FFIV

4. Like i said, a Season lasts long. You could play every day one or two matches and should reach lvl 25 if ya start at beginn of the season.. i think. Can somebody do the math? I suck at math.

5. For me its really.... a entiteld position to say you WANT that everybody can get the set, even after the season because you fear to lose out at something. I invest the time and sweat for the glam and you will get it for little to non effort a few month later? Thats not really fair for me, or is it?

6. On the Note of Nr 5: If they make the pvp glam availebal at a later date for little to non effort. I petition that ultima-weapons will be mogglestation items after a year. So i dont have to get good at raiding.

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I agree with that, I'm okay with this as long as I can get ultimate weapons with tomestones of causality or astronomy, I dont want to do the content, I dont like it, but I want the weapon.

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

1. PvP is and was always a team effort, only if you play 1v1 you alone can blame your lose. Thats why i find it funny, because even with randoms and the few things SE gave me to communicat, we scored a win and even if its by pure luck.. well then i'm a lucky little lalafell! After i read your answer, it sounds like you only play for the glam, so you dont even play ranked game, so why is a lose that bad?

2. You CAN play with your friends. Kinda atleast. Most of the times you end in the enemy team but even that CAN be fun, atleast if you troll your mate by targeting him as dragoon ;) But yea, the thing that you cannot form teams sucks a little bit.

3. If you dont want to play, then dont play. I have the mog and its not THAT great. Only you are forcing yourself to play, not FFIV

4. Like i said, a Season lasts long. You could play every day one or two matches and should reach lvl 25 if ya start at beginn of the season.. i think. Can somebody do the math? I suck at math.

5. For me its really.... a entiteld position to say you WANT that everybody can get the set, even after the season because you fear to lose out at something. I invest the time and sweat for the glam and you will get it for little to non effort a few month later? Thats not really fair for me, or is it?

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1. Then you admit that there's no real reason to take pride in anything except that you put time into a game mode you have little to no control over the result of. Thank you.

2. No, you can't. Your attempt at saying you "technically' can by queuing up at the same time doesn't change that you straight up can't and are more likely going to be wait for one or the other to exit their game for several minutes each time attempting to do so, and as you said, you will most likely be on opposing sides, and this ONLY has a SLIGHT chance of working on low pop data-centers. Barely even worth mentioning.

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

3. If you dont want to play, then dont play. I have the mog and its not THAT great. Only you are forcing yourself to play, not FFIV

4. Like i said, a Season lasts long. You could play every day one or two matches and should reach lvl 25 if ya start at beginn of the season.. i think. Can somebody do the math? I suck at math.

5. For me its really.... a entiteld position to say you WANT that everybody can get the set, even after the season because you fear to lose out at something. I invest the time and sweat for the glam and you will get it for little to non effort a few month later? Thats not really fair for me, or is it?

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3. This is a non-argument of the same caliber of "if you don't like your job, just quit!" and is incredibly shallow in thought. The argument I'm giving assumes you want people to play your game and enjoy it. The proper response is "ok, let's see how we can make this better and enjoyable" not "You don't like what we're doing? Well then just quit and play something else!" This is what led to Blizzard collapsing. So sure, I can quit, but SE losing money should not be their end goal when they can easily make this less bitter for everyone who shares my contentions with the current FOMO pass.

4. and like I said, as someone who has been playing intermittently along the length of the season as you suggested, I'm still burnt out because it's looming in the back of my mind, it's exhausting and it carries through from patch to patch. It genuinely causes me stress to know another patch is coming out because not only is a deadline, it elicits the "great, I have to do PVP again" reaction for when it drops.

5. If you are willing to put in the work, but just want to do it at your own pace, how is that entitled? Are people who take months to complete an ARR or HW relic entitled? Are players who go at their own pace at LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME entitled when they still put in the work?

Do you think playing enough PVP to say, rack up 100,000 Wolf Marks is REALLY "non-effort" as you claim it is? How do you figure that? From the sound of it, EFFORT doesn't actually matter to you, only the time in which it is done. If that's the case, kindly screw off with YOUR entitled position.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

1. Then you admit that there's no real reason to take pride in anything except that you put time into a game mode you have little to no control over the result of. Thank you.

2. No, you can't. Your attempt at saying you "technically' can by queuing up at the same time doesn't change that you straight up can't and are more likely going to be wait for one or the other to exit their game for several minutes each time attempting to do so, and as you said, you will most likely be on opposing sides, and this ONLY has a SLIGHT chance of working on low pop data-centers. Barely even worth mentioning.

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You still put time into it, and you work for it, through the countless hours to get it done, and you get rewarded with the glam, sounds good to me.

Also you can easily queue up with friends, there are times you'll be put agaisnt them, sure, but most of the time you'll end up on the same time, I do this with casual games when I feel like playing with a friend or two and it works 99% of the time.

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3. This is a non-argument of the same caliber of "if you don't like your job, just quit!" and is incredibly shallow in thought. The argument I'm giving assumes you want people to play your game and enjoy it. The proper response is "ok, let's see how we can make this better and enjoyable" not "You don't like what we're doing? Well then just quit and play something else!" This is what led to Blizzard collapsing. So sure, I can quit, but SE losing money should not be their end goal when they can easily make this less bitter for everyone who shares my contentions with the current FOMO pass.

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Or just dont do the PVP ? Since you dont like it, easy fix.

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4. and like I said, as someone who has been playing intermittently along the length of the season as you suggested, I'm still burnt out because it's looming in the back of my mind, it's exhausting and it carries through from patch to patch. It genuinely causes me stress to know another patch is coming out because not only is a deadline, it elicits the "great, I have to do PVP again" reaction for when it drops.

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This is literally a you problem.

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5. If you are willing to put in the work, but just want to do it at your own pace, how is that entitled? Are people who take months to complete an ARR or HW relic entitled? Are players who go at their own pace at LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME entitled when they still put in the work?

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You have an entire season to get the glam, you can do it at your own pace.

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Do you think playing enough PVP to say, rack up 100,000 Wolf Marks is REALLY "non-effort" as you claim it is? How do you figure that? From the sound of it, EFFORT doesn't actually matter to you, only the time in which it is done. If that's the case, kindly screw off with YOUR entitled position.

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You do the content when its current, you get the glam, if you dont, you dont get the glam, very simple.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

3. This is a non-argument of the same caliber of "if you don't like your job, just quit!" and is incredibly shallow in thought. The argument I'm giving assumes you want people to play your game and enjoy it. The proper response is "ok, let's see how we can make this better and enjoyable" not "You don't like what we're doing? Well then just quit and play something else!" This is what led to Blizzard collapsing. So sure, I can quit, but SE losing money should not be their end goal when they can easily make this less bitter for everyone who shares my contentions with the current FOMO pass.

4. and like I said, as someone who has been playing intermittently along the length of the season as you suggested, I'm still burnt out because it's looming in the back of my mind, it's exhausting and it carries through from patch to patch. It genuinely causes me stress to know another patch is coming out because not only is a deadline, it elicits the "great, I have to do PVP again" reaction for when it drops.

5. If you are willing to put in the work, but just want to do it at your own pace, how is that entitled? Are people who take months to complete an ARR or HW relic entitled? Are players who go at their own pace at LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME entitled when they still put in the work?

Do you think playing enough PVP to say, rack up 100,000 Wolf Marks is REALLY "non-effort" as you claim it is? How do you figure that? From the sound of it, EFFORT doesn't actually matter to you, only the time in which it is done. If that's the case, kindly screw off with YOUR entitled position.

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Me personally, the low-end effort of farming pvp wolf marks for a prestige glam (Im saying this loosely considering the designs for Ultimate weapons being...not that good imo lol) compared to the effort of getting a good group together, learn and coordinate to do the hardest battle content in this game is NOT the same level of work and effort here. Im not gonna ultimately care anyway for them; if they like...make a different recolor or look based off of those ultimate weapons then thats totally fine for me, but putting the actual same reward into a content system thats brain dead easy to obtain is kinda slapping the face of all those players whom worked very hard to get those weapons. Again just to reiterate, Im pretty sure not many hardcore raiders care for the actual weapons but it is a tangible achievement reward to let other players know that they've completed that hard content.

So thats how I see it honestly, I prefer having rewards that incentivize me to do that content for it rather than the game having to adapt to my wants.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

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Given the entirety of your "answers" to my deconstruction of an argument have been just restating the original argument with inflammatory remarks rather than offering anything substantial, and this is the second time you have done nothing but mutter banal ramblings, I have concluded you are not someone to be conversed with. Have a nice life, stay in school.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

Given the entirety of your "answers" to my deconstruction of an argument have been just restating the original argument with inflammatory remarks rather than offering anything substantial, and this is the second time you have done nothing but mutter banal ramblings, I have concluded you are not someone to be conversed with. Have a nice life, stay in school.

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You too, I'll enjoy doing PVP and getting rewarded for it, while you'll keep asking to get rewards for doing absolutely nothing because you dont like it. I dont like ultimates, I dont ask for ultimate weapons. I dont need the game and its direction to be shaped around me, unlike you.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Nope, that removes the point of doing it when its current content, also its very easy to get both trophies and also wolf marks, so it just renders the original grind useless.

Leave PVP alone if you dont like it, and let those that like it enjoy it. If you want the glam, you grind it when current, the seasons are very long, if you dont want it, or you dont want to do the grind, then you will miss out, too bad.

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We'll just agree to disagree, then. FOMO is shit and if pretending to be special for grinding out a glam in arbitrary swath of time is your only reason for doing a certain content, that should be your problem, not anyone else's. Shrug, what can you do?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Me personally, the low-end effort of farming pvp wolf marks for a prestige glam (Im saying this loosely considering the designs for Ultimate weapons being...not that good imo lol) compared to the effort of getting a good group together, learn and coordinate to do the hardest battle content in this game is NOT the same level of work and effort here. Im not gonna ultimately care anyway for them; if they like...make a different recolor or look based off of those ultimate weapons then thats totally fine for me, but putting the actual same reward into a content system thats brain dead easy to obtain is kinda slapping the face of all those players whom worked very hard to get those weapons. Again just to reiterate, Im pretty sure not many hardcore raiders care for the actual weapons but it is a tangible achievement reward to let other players know that they've completed that hard content.

So thats how I see it honestly, I prefer having rewards that incentivize me to do that content for it rather than the game having to adapt to my wants.

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Okay... what does this have to do with what I'm saying? I didn't argue about anything related to ultimate weapons. If your argument is "Because PVP is much easier compared to organized PVE, therefore the time limit is justified to get the rewards." then my counterpoint would be "should relics be time-limited as well?" and the answer of course is no and that argument doesn't hold up.

As I've had to repeatedly restate for the people here. I don't mind that the rewards take time and effort to obtain, I welcome that. My contention is that unlike nearly everything else in the game, they are time limited and afterwards gone forever. What time you do or accomplish something should have no bearing on the fact that you put in the effort itself.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

Okay... what does this have to do with what I'm saying? I didn't argue about anything related to ultimate weapons. If your argument is "Because PVP is much easier compared to organized PVE, therefore the time limit is justified to get the rewards." then my counterpoint would be "should relics be time-limited as well?" and the answer of course is no and that argument doesn't hold up.

As I've had to repeatedly restate for the people here. I don't mind that the rewards take time and effort to obtain, I welcome that. My contention is that unlike nearly everything else in the game, they are time limited and afterwards gone forever. What time you do or accomplish something should have no bearing on the fact that you put in the effort itself.

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ah no my bad, I actually wasnt paying attention to what you were debating about. I thought we were talking about putting ultimate weapon glams obtainable in pvp.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

1. Then you admit that there's no real reason to take pride in anything except that you put time into a game mode you have little to no control over the result of. Thank you.

2. No, you can't. Your attempt at saying you "technically' can by queuing up at the same time doesn't change that you straight up can't and are more likely going to be wait for one or the other to exit their game for several minutes each time attempting to do so, and as you said, you will most likely be on opposing sides, and this ONLY has a SLIGHT chance of working on low pop data-centers. Barely even worth mentioning.

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To use your own words:

1. Why did you not answer my point? You do not care for ranked so you could lose 10000 games and would still get the glam.

2. It worked like a charm for me, we sit in vc, join at the same time and got into the same match, but often in diffrent teams. Because my friend and i LIKE PVP we had fun playing in the same and opposit teams. You clearly only care for the glam.

3. My argument is, you have the SAME time as anyone for lvl 25 to get the glam. Even if you win ALL matches till lvl 25 you only be a little bit faster then every other player. You dont critic the mechanics, or give a example what SE could do to make pvp better you only say: "I want the glam, which all other player had to work for, because i dont like playing pvp."

4. ....you got burned out, becaus of a game, that you play as a hobby? Everything okey? You know the glam is not worth the stress. You dont get one real satisfaction from it, if you have it or not. You will not die. Please dont play if it causes you so much stess.

5. Its entiteld to demand something your not entitelt for. You dont play pvp because you like it. You play it becaus you want the glam. If you dont put enough effort in it, you will not get it. Simple as that. I would like the ultima weapons but i have not the time to raid to this extend, or the time for grinding gear and consumebals. So i dont get the ultima-weapons and i dont get the bragging rigths.

The cap are 20.000 Wolf Marks. I get them after 3h over 3 days. So yeah, getting 100.000 Wolfmarks is no effort because you get them thrown at you like no other currencie.

And can you please mind your language? I'm civil and treat you with respect, so pleas return the favor.

You can't compare this to Ultimate weapons because those are always obtainable.

As these glams should be. (with enough effort)

Why should they be obtainable after a season?

There are other items that are no longer obtainable in game. Thats why they are worth something. Why people work to get them. If the glam would be nothing then a cheap reward thrown at you for wolfmarks or real money, everybody that worked for them would feel betrayed.

If you want them so much, work for them. Or atleast give people that dont grinded for them a version that not dyeable.

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

Why should they be obtainable after a season?

There are other items that are no longer obtainable in game. Thats why they are worth something. Why people work to get them. If the glam would be nothing then a cheap reward thrown at you for wolfmarks or real money, everybody that worked for them would feel betrayed.

If you want them so much, work for them. Or atleast give people that dont grinded for them a version that not dyeable.

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If you derive value from having something others don't (for no other reason than arbitrary timelocking) then I don't think it's in any developer's best interest to humor or validate you.

There is no 'working for it'. Malmstone rewards don't fundamentally change in difficulty. It's still the same farm and still the same % of winning/losing, if it's 6.1 or 6.5. At best, some jobs might perform slightly better or less than before, but the difference is minuscule and not worth taking into account.

If someone got the Archfiend attire, they didn't necessarily put in more work than someone who got the False Monarchy attire, or someone who gets the next Malmstone glam coffer. There is no distinguishing factor, so there is literally no reason to make it FOMO.

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

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And can you please mind your language? I'm civil and treat you with respect, so pleas return the favor.

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1. I did, but allow me to be clear. You cannot take personal pride in winning a game you had no control over from the start because as you said, whether you win or lose is up to luck.

2. Cool, doesn't change that people asked for premade groups and were told no.

3. Your attempt at a strawman is pathetic given my post DIRECTLY above yours contradicts this. For... fourth time now-

I have no problem with rewards taking time and effort to acquire, my problem is with the fact that you have to spend several days grinding PVP or miss out on it forever.

4. I got burned out because the game coerces players to play a very specific game mode repeatedly in order to get rewards that will otherwise be lost to me forever if I don't. I don't mind PVP here and there, being told I have to play a lot of it in a relatively short amount of time is exhausting and unpleasant.

5. How many times do I have to-

I don't mind playing a certain amount of PVP to get the rewards from it, I don't like being held at gunpoint to do it within a short time-frame on threat of losing access to it forever.

Allow me to word this differently for you:

Do you consider playing 100 PVP games over a year, and 100 pvp games over a month to have the same amount of effort put in by the player?

As for my language, no you are not being civil, you are accusing me of being entitled on baseless assertions and fallacious claims which I have REPEATEDLY rebutted and you have chosen to ignore. If being told to "screw off" in response to that is offensive to you, perhaps don't be so asinine in your recollection and assumptions of my argument.

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I have no problem with rewards taking time and effort to acquire, my problem is with the fact that you have to spend several days grinding PVP or miss out on it forever.

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Oh no, that's the end of the world, having to do PVP for a few days to get a glam, the drama !

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I don't mind playing a certain amount of PVP to get the rewards from it, I don't like being held at gunpoint to do it within a short time-frame on threat of losing access to it forever.

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Yeah you are not being held at gunpoint, you seem to have bigger issues than this game if this is how you feel.

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4. I got burned out because the game coerces players to play a very specific game mode repeatedly in order to get rewards that will otherwise be lost to me forever if I don't. I don't mind PVP here and there, being told I have to play a lot of it in a relatively short amount of time is exhausting and unpleasant.

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Relatively short amount of time ? You have an entire season.

Competition is something people like. Having something unique like a title or set that not everybody gets is a commen reward in mmos.

In WoW there are Mounts you only get if you rank in the current season to a certaint place and when the season is gone, you have no other way to achive that mount.

But nice that you implie that i'm a bad person because i take a little bit of pride when i achive something not everybody gets.