Just like FFXI, make all Artifact armor wearable by all classes

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Now, can that system actually be coded into XIV? Who knows.

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My only question at that point is less "can it be coded into XIV" and more "what would it break".

Because theoretically you can add this into the game, it's really not rocket science. At least, not in comparison to several other things people want. But several features also looked simple enough, but then they broke something along the line.

Maybe the lock in FF14 is in how gear is designed? Like, originally it was all designed with a lock as a property and now changing it might cause awkward issues that the dev team doesn't want to deal with?

Square had to duplicate items just to make them available for everyone. Not just gear, even, actual customization options needed a whole new body part to fit (Hyurs with their SHB beard). So maybe something about how the game is designed is being an obstacle. And I know what people can say: "Third party tools do this", but they bypass certain things that Square likely knows they themselves can't bypass without causing issues? So... maybe that's why?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

My only question at that point is less "can it be coded into XIV" and more "what would it break".

Because theoretically you can add this into the game, it's really not rocket science. At least, not in comparison to several other things people want. But several features also looked simple enough, but then they broke something along the line.

Maybe the lock in FF14 is in how gear is designed? Like, originally it was all designed with a lock as a property and now changing it might cause awkward issues that the dev team doesn't want to deal with?

Square had to duplicate items just to make them available for everyone. Not just gear, even, actual customization options needed a whole new body part to fit (Hyurs with their SHB beard). So maybe something about how the game is designed is being an obstacle. And I know what people can say: "Third party tools do this", but they bypass certain things that Square likely knows they themselves can't bypass without causing issues? So... maybe that's why?

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True dat. To be honest, I have rather low expectations when it comes to XIV and how things are implemented in this game. It seems like they have good ideas, but then the actual implementation quite often turns into some convoluted mess. Whether that's due to the game's coding, time/money/skill restraints, or maybe just even poor judgement, that's anyone's guess...but yeah..years of that has just left me not expecting much. :X Still have certain things I would love to see in game, but I'm not holding my breath over here.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

All-class gear is simply referring to the replicas that get added as a level one glam piece. I don't think I've seen anyone, across all these threads, suggest that the gear itself become functional stat-gear for all classes. We're talking glams.

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I know we're talking glams, but I don't think people realize what it is they're asking for. The way they carry on about it, it makes it sound like they want the functional stat gear to have the job restrictions removed. Just look at the title of this thread: "Make all artifact armor wearable by all classes" Gear and glams are one and the same in this game. Our system clearly works by pulling the whole item for appearance. The existence of replica gear suggests that this is the only way to allow all jobs to use other appearances in this game. People keep insisting that something can be done and this is the only logical conclusion I can come to that they want to just have gear be unrestricted. Maybe I've been reading it wrong, but again, I feel like people don't know enough to really speak properly on what it is they want.

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With XI, all the gear becomes usable as glamour only once you can equip it normally. So as mentioned earlier, in order to use a level 90 PLD body piece as glamour for any job, you have to have your PLD at level 90 first. The gear itself isn't changing. It still retains the stats and role restrictions if you want to equip it as gear, but it's now usuable as a glam piece.

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This is all well and good, but the problem is that just because something works on one system, it doesn't mean it'll work in another.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

. And I know what people can say: "Third party tools do this", but they bypass certain things that Square likely knows they themselves can't bypass without causing issues? So... maybe that's why?

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My understanding with this is an item gets replaced (likely a low level all class item with a shabby look), so you have Ash Pattens being reskinned as Air Jordans.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

the only logical conclusion I can come to that they want to just have gear be unrestricted. Maybe I've been reading it wrong, but again, I feel like people don't know enough to really speak properly on what it is they want.

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This and the general glamour discussion are only talking about glamour, itself. Nobody is wanting classes to be able to wear other classes' gear, just that they allow us to glamour any other classes' gear.

Just to clarify, since you aren't sure.

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

This and the general glamour discussion are only talking about glamour, itself. Nobody is wanting classes to be able to wear other classes' gear, just that they allow us to glamour any other classes' gear.

Just to clarify, since you aren't sure.

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And I'm saying there's no distinction for this in the game. It's unlikely that there could be, otherwise they would've done it, rather than make all those replicas / all job items.

That's why I keep bringing up the Fitting Room, given that it's a system that exists within the game that allows for equipment to be worn by a character model regardless of its restrictions

Another thing that gets brought up and has merit is the fact that NPCs can wear any equipment despite class restrictions.

The existence of these systems in the game means that it is, indeed, possible.

Unfortunately, the Replica item route is a dead end, since they never made any more.

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

That's why I keep bringing up the Fitting Room, given that it's a system that exists within the game that allows for equipment to be worn by a character model regardless of its restrictions

Another thing that gets brought up and has merit is the fact that NPCs can wear any equipment despite class restrictions.

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That tells us that they don't check for class compatibility in contexts where gear stats don't matter. Imagine what a pain the fitting room would be if you could only try on gear that you can currently equip! It's necessary to ignore compatibility there, but then you never get to fight anything while dressed in what you saved to that window, so it's not an issue there.

As for NPCs, I'm not certain but I remember reading somewhere that they are handled in an entirely different way, so that if they are used in battle, their visible gear has no bearing on their actual stats.

So those situations aren't proof that they can disconnect equippability from glamourability for players, let alone do so selectively if they want to keep some things restricted.

Really, I feel like they could rejigger the glamour system to use either of those two systems instead of their current one, as even the way you described them sounds like a free-form system.

More likely, they just don't want to use development time to do the work since they already have a system that works "well enough". Which is fair, sure, but also the reason why a lot of us are pushing for it.

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

Really, I feel like they could rejigger the glamour system to use either of those two systems instead of their current one, as even the way you described them sounds like a free-form system.

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I'm only guessing from what I can see as a player, but I don't get that impression. They're just independent systems accessing gear appearances in totally different ways. The fitting room isn't the same thing as a live character dealing with stats and equippability. It's just saving individual pieces of gear, which are evidently set up with generic rules about how the pieces interact with other pieces of particular shapes, so it displays them together in a coherent way even if you could never actually equip them on your character at the same time.

Whatever the case may be, I really doubt it's a truly insurmountable technical hurdle...

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

Whatever the case may be, I really doubt it's a truly insurmountable technical hurdle...

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Nothing is truly insurmountable. The question becomes:

How long do you want to wait for the next patch or expansion? Because making major changes to one of the primary systems for gearing is not necessarily going to be simple or cheap.

They could, for example, completely replace the underlying game engine. Would it be a wise business decision? No. Would it attract enough new players to justify the immediate costs? No way to determine that. We'll count that as a maybe. They could replace the entire game. Would that be reasonable? No - but it is definitely doable.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Nothing is truly insurmountable. The question becomes:

How long do you want to wait for the next patch or expansion? Because making major changes to one of the primary systems for gearing is not necessarily going to be simple or cheap.

They could, for example, completely replace the underlying game engine. Would it be a wise business decision? No. Would it attract enough new players to justify the immediate costs? No way to determine that. We'll count that as a maybe. They could replace the entire game. Would that be reasonable? No - but it is definitely doable.

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Exactly. It's more of a question of value. They already tried to mimic other systems and it didn't work out. They moved on. They're now focused on improving the game and setting up the next 10 years. Playing around with a system that isn't broken for the sake of a niche group of people who want to dress different isn't worth it right now and it probably never will be.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Nothing is truly insurmountable. The question becomes:

How long do you want to wait for the next patch or expansion? Because making major changes to one of the primary systems for gearing is not necessarily going to be simple or cheap.

They could, for example, completely replace the underlying game engine. Would it be a wise business decision? No. Would it attract enough new players to justify the immediate costs? No way to determine that. We'll count that as a maybe. They could replace the entire game. Would that be reasonable? No - but it is definitely doable.

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We are already waiting 4 months for no content at all, so it doesnt matter. I dont really think that replacing "can equip only by bard" to "can be equiped by phys ranged" should by massive change you all are trying to make.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Playing around with a system that isn't broken

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Its broken and stupid. Just sain.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Its broken and stupid. Just sain.

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You're projecting. Just sayin'

In terms of FF, Matsui > All

I believe he worked on XIV ARR combat system.

Other than lock style, Monstrosity was another interesting system.

Being a MNK in shiny Knight gear in XI is an amazing feeling.....

If you can't tell the guy punching is a MNK, or the dude with the big axe is a WAR.....maybe you have bigger issues than what people are wearing.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

You are right. Its 14th entering of the series. That means they should finally learn to not make stupid restrictions. I dont know whats so horryfing about idea, that I could use fisher gloves glam on my other DoL, or even on DoW/M jobs. Or MCH boots on my bard. Everybody is crying "BuT mY fANtasy reeeeee". No, nobody cares. Its mostly dead glam that is limiting, only few people use them and it would make it only better to unlock it.

I seriously want the source of this, because if it from some interview that I missed, it would be interesting to read. But I dont believe it was this. If you seriously think that YoshiP, producer of the game needs to ask about every stupid little thing to higher managment, he would be fired. He is literally managing the biggest profiting project SE now have. No, he is not some puppet. He is DIRECTOR of the game.

Male Viera is cannon, so this is pure bullshit. You didnt played FF12 so what are you so mad about? You dont even know what you are talking about holy shit. They didnt wanted to do them, because it was a big load of work to bring Viera/Hrothgar into the game and they just dont want to bother fixing stuff for new races. Not because of IP.

Yes

They should do that

YoshiP said no to many things and they did it. You are not some representative of Yoshida. Stop screaming like somebody hurted you. You are seriously acting like a crybaby and know nothing about this game.

Nobody have respect about your opinion same, as you do to ours. So stop acting like being a better person. You bring nothing.

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My dude, who pissed in your cereal, lawl. I like all these assumptions you made against me without knowing a thing. Just because you have no respect for why AF gear isn't shared doesn't mean the team shouldn't either. Calm yourself down and stop getting so upset over a ribbon and some damn gloves. Children these days can't take no for an answer.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Playing around with a system that isn't broken for the sake of a niche group of people who want to dress different isn't worth it right now and it probably never will be.

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I'd thank you to not attack your fellow players.

If this subject isn't of interest to you, just ignore the threads- it sounds like you're starting to take all of this personally.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm only guessing from what I can see as a player, but I don't get that impression. They're just independent systems accessing gear appearances in totally different ways. The fitting room isn't the same thing as a live character dealing with stats and equippability. It's just saving individual pieces of gear, which are evidently set up with generic rules about how the pieces interact with other pieces of particular shapes, so it displays them together in a coherent way even if you could never actually equip them on your character at the same time.

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Right, but it's also a fully-functioning system within the game- one that is able to grab an item's appearance and dye data and apply it on a character model without heeding that item's requirements.

Theoretically, the only thing they would need to do is use Glamour Plate data to grab the item's model[1][2], and then retarget where that model gets applied, from the Fitting Room character model to the Field character model.


[1] like the Fitting Room does via Player Characters' loadouts, the Chat system, or the Glamour Dresser
[2] To add, the Glamour Dresser being able to mix and match freely like the Fitting Room means they've already duplicated that system

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

I'd thank you to not attack your fellow players.

If this subject isn't of interest to you, just ignore the threads- it sounds like you're starting to take all of this personally.




Right, but it's also a fully-functioning system within the game- one that is able to grab an item's appearance and dye data and apply it on a character model without heeding that item's requirements.

Theoretically, the only thing they would need to do is use Glamour Plate data to grab the item's model[1][2], and then retarget where that model gets applied, from the Fitting Room character model to the Field character model.


[1] like the Fitting Room does via Player Characters' loadouts, the Chat system, or the Glamour Dresser
[2] To add, the Glamour Dresser being able to mix and match freely like the Fitting Room means they've already duplicated that system

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Excuse me? How is Deveryn "attacking" you? I often take issue with stuff he says, but in this case he's both right and didn't "attack" anyone. For once I agree with him, this unrestricting AF gear for the few people probably isn't currently worth it to the dev team. If the subject was about unlocking all gear for glam then maybe it'd be worth it, but that's not what this thread is about.

Good lord...

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

Egads, a Marauder... wearing robes?? My brain cannot comprehend what I'm seeing...!

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...he_Fargone.png

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Let me tell you about tanks wearing robes...

Still blows me away that the all/all robe sold for 400 usd!

Edit: link's language is a bit salty, you've been warned!

...ok so all in all we unanimously agree that all gear should be free game for glam without restriction yes, yes

I'm glad we could come to a full consensus

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

...ok so all in all we unanimously agree that all gear should be free game for glam without restriction yes, yes

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Why yes I do agree that all non-AF gear should be free for glam. :P

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Why yes I do agree that all non-AF gear should be free for glam. :P

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haha thats a funny way to say "all gear"

The more this thread goes on, the more it sounds like a cheesy Disney Channel sitcom where the antagonist girl has some kind of party, but only she's allowed to wear blue, and if anyone else wants to wear blue, she throws punch on their dress.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Why yes I do agree that all non-AF gear should be free for glam. :P

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I think people are forgetting the part where PvP re-released artifact gear for people at level 1 as a glamour. It's the Virtu Gear. It's still job-locked despite only having the models on them. Would those count as AF or not anymore?

They only have the models, none of the stats nor the ilv. They're not obtained by normal means, you have to buy them with a currency obtained in PvP and not PvE...

All this to say... no it's not "all gear", Zebra's singling out AF gear. Because now we have the Virtu gearsets which do bring this argument into question. When released outside of normal PvE as glamour options and nothing more, do they still count as Artifact gear?

You'll find some people who say it's still considered an Artifact Gear, just for lower level people to wear. Others will say the label shouldn't apply anymore, and thus be unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I think people are forgetting the part where PvP re-released artifact gear for people at level 1 as a glamour. It's the Virtu Gear. It's still job-locked despite only having the models on them. Would those count as AF or not anymore?

They only have the models, none of the stats nor the ilv. They're not obtained by normal means, you have to buy them with a currency obtained in PvP and not PvE...

All this to say... no it's not "all gear", Zebra's singling out AF gear. Because now we have the Virtu gearsets which do bring this argument into question. When released outside of normal PvE as glamour options and nothing more, do they still count as Artifact gear?

You'll find some people who say it's still considered an Artifact Gear, just for lower level people to wear. Others will say the label shouldn't apply anymore, and thus be unlocked.

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Sounds like the perfect solution to me. AF gear can stay locked, but we get level 1 gearsets that looks the same as every AF set that anyone can wear. Everyone wins.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Sounds like the perfect solution to me. AF gear can stay locked, but we get level 1 gearsets that looks the same as every AF set that anyone can wear. Everyone wins.

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The fun part about the Virtu sets is that they're dyeable. Meaning that for some, such as the GNB set, you don't need to do Memoria Misera for the dyeable glamour upgrade. Which uhh . w .;; alright then, Square.

I agree that they can stay locked but have Lv 1 gearsets so people can glamour. AF gear is glamour gear for ±97% of its lifetime anyway. I just find it really funny that it makes the EX fight with the emperor feel even less important.

You know what? I actually wasn't aware of those sets. If they exist, are usable by all jobs, and look exactly like AF gear, then yeah remove the restriction as Square has already done that.

I just honestly wasn't aware those sets existed to begin with (I've said it before, been playing since 2.1 and I learn things about this game all the time). I have no way to verify they exist outside of very tediously looking up vendor inventories on my phone (currently moving across the country so no 14 access), so I'll take Mide's word they exist.

Edit: I was just informed I misunderstood, these sets are still job-locked. So I revert to my previous stance lol

Say it with me like one of those Nickelodeon Jr. shows by clapping your hands together like big dumpy babies (ahem)

"All gear glamour unlock"

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I think people are forgetting the part where PvP re-released artifact gear for people at level 1 as a glamour. It's the Virtu Gear. It's still job-locked despite only having the models on them. Would those count as AF or not anymore?

They only have the models, none of the stats nor the ilv. They're not obtained by normal means, you have to buy them with a currency obtained in PvP and not PvE...

All this to say... no it's not "all gear", Zebra's singling out AF gear. Because now we have the Virtu gearsets which do bring this argument into question. When released outside of normal PvE as glamour options and nothing more, do they still count as Artifact gear?

You'll find some people who say it's still considered an Artifact Gear, just for lower level people to wear. Others will say the label shouldn't apply anymore, and thus be unlocked.

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I'm not exactly sure what your point is here. The virtue gear is still locked to the job the AF sets belong to. The self-entitled pushers in this thread very much want the AF gear to be a glamour option regardless of what job they choose to paste that image unto.

The true AF sets aren't glamour locked, you can still glamour them onto any set of sufficient ilv so long as it is the corresponding job. The only issue with that is it can't be used as glamour for sets of gear that are lower than the stat based artifact gear. If your point is there is not much reason for these sets to be locked due to the existence of the virtue gear, this is redundant because by the time you obtain the AF gear, you shouldn't be wearing lower level armor on that job in the first place. This rule doesn't apply to just AF gear, it applies to all gear in the game, which is why when the devs decide to not have job/role restrictions on a set of gear, they typically release them as lv1 glamour gear. However, even with these options, they will still place restrictions on them. Could be race, sex, and even job/role.

If anything, the virtue gear is the dev team doubling down on them not wanting the AF gear to be used by anyone other than the job it belongs to.

I just want a lot of the flexibility and honestly better design that FF11 has towards glamours than FF14 does. Can change glamour sets anywhere, doesn't cost anything to glamour your armor, have effectively 200 glamour plates to use (a bit disingenuous as you will be using a lot of the plates to setup gearswap sets), and you can move things in and out of your mog wardrobes wherever and whenever you want instead of having to go to an inn to do it. That being said there is no dye system there which is a benefit of FF14.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here.

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Ummm... I suggest you read the few posts there again. I specifically say what the point is at the start, even if it's not clear.

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I think people are forgetting the part where PvP re-released artifact gear for people at level 1 as a glamour. It's the Virtu Gear. It's still job-locked despite only having the models on them. Would those count as AF or not anymore?

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Here's the logic I went with:
- As you say, there are people who want the AF gear to be glamoured onto any piece.
- So are there people who want the AF gear to not be glamourable onto just any job.
- One reason people want the AF gear to remain locked, among others, is that the gear is considered special
- Virtu gear is a re-release of the AF gear without any of the stuff that ties those gears to the job (item level, having to do the quests to unlock them...)
- But it's still locked to the job. It's clearly just there for glamour. So why not unlock the Virtu gear? Would that not be categorized as "just a glamour option"?
- If not, why so? After all, at least AF gear has stats and are useful for even if just barely a week. They're the best immediate gear one has once they're done levelling up, as they likely don't have the tomestones to get better. Virtu Gear is not obtained in PvE at all, and it's a lv 1 glamour. Its one and only purpose is to glamour. And you don't need to do any quest related to the job at all to obtain it, just unlock the job and there you go. It doesn't have any special connection past the lock. Would you change your mind based on that?

The rest is as you say. It's the dev team doubling down on not wanting AF gear to be used on any other job, even if it's just a lv 1 glamourable piece. Clearly what SE and people who support keeping the lock feel is that the model itself is inherently tied to that job, hence the lock. The model is what's special.

What I wanted to ask with that post was for the people pushing for either end how they felt about the Virtu gear. Such as the people who want the lock to remain for AF gear: would they change their mind on that one piece? And I got my answer/confirmation.

You came to the same conclusion I did, even if you had a different starting point xD
TLDR: ...yes xD