Elaborate, i fear you have completely missed the point, but without understanding the thread i guess that's obvious. You should really read the thread before posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
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06-13-2012, 04:07 AMviion
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06-13-2012, 04:12 AMKowenHigh level content should require a group.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTaru
Instead, there should be more of an incentive for people to re-do quests like "United We Stand," because right now there's no reason to do them again (other than to just be nice) and people get left behind. It hasn't even been out a week and I've already been having trouble trying to help a friend of mine get through it.
MMO's should definitely focus on multiplayer content, but things that only you benefit from shouldn't require 8 people to complete. -
06-13-2012, 04:15 AMAndrien
A lot of console gamers don't play MMO. To attract that large player-base you need to appeal to that crowd. If there is any hope for a successful relaunch on PC, and keeping that promise for the PS3, then they have to appeal to everyone needs.
What FFXIV need is lots of progressing side quest, and storylines with freedom. That is something an offline Final Fantasy is best known for. If they keep that aspect in the Final Fantasy franchise together along with hardcore activities for large group content, then I see no reason to alienate that larger fanbase that is playing on consoles. -
06-13-2012, 04:17 AMAndrienIs is not about what you said. It is what about what you mean... Get a clueQuote:
Originally Posted by Reaujien
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06-13-2012, 04:17 AMKowen
Here's a suggestion:
Have the battlefields give a small Company Seal reward to everyone in the party, as long as it contains at least one person who's beating it for the first time (to make it so a group can't farm the fights for seals over and over again). Have the reward increase proportionately to the number of people in the party who haven't completed it. -
06-13-2012, 04:22 AMGoufunakiAnd the award for best dramatic performance goes to~Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTaru
Seriously, lighten up. lol
This isn't a request/petition thread, it's just me sharing how I feel. Everyone's free to not agree with me. No need to take it so seriously. -
06-13-2012, 04:25 AMReaujienWow... just... I- I mean, wow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrien
So what do I mean then? Clearly you know something that I apparently don't - which is what I meant by my opinion. I guess I speak in cryptic terms that even I don't understand...
Darn, another forum cop here - didn't mean to state an opinion that didn't "jive" with you.
Man... let me get out of this ~20% of players who post on forums mess ---___--- -
06-13-2012, 04:33 AMKowen
It's a shame that more people don't help with things, but I honestly can't blame them with some of these quests.
I loved the battlefield for "United We Stand," it was probably the most fun I've had in this game so far, but getting through the stronghold first is horrible.
Whichever QA person okay'd putting THAT many hostile mobs in THAT small of an area, on our current god-awful server infrastructure, should be fired.
Edit: Also, we really need to be given reraise or something if we die and get kicked out. There's no way to run away from the instance if you're losing, so if you didn't bring a 9th person to stand outside and raise everyone you're ****ed. -
06-13-2012, 04:38 AMAndrienNo disrespects but;Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaujien
It is a damn shame that I have to break down your own words so you can understand your own statement.
Look, I understand that you like party-based content, I like that kind of stuff too, but there is many other MMORPG's that does not incorporate force grouping for everything.
I could attempt to educate you on the finer points of this subject, but it would require monetary recompense on your part. -
06-13-2012, 05:15 AMC56
I have to agree with the op, I'm coming back to the game after about a year of not playing, with a fresh character, so it's getting to be a pain to find people to do stuff with. The thing is most people who play seem to be stuck up jerks who don't give a damn if it's your first time doing something and need help.
Sorry I've met a few nice people, but most were jerks, idk what community you people are posting about that wants to make friends and give linkpeals out to everyone, but from my experience most people keep to themselves and look down on new players for being new or trying to be friendly.
The new graphics are gonna draw people in, but the clicky rotten community is gonna drive them away in the long run -_-
Just let us solo so we can just rush threw stuff while we wait for the LFG thing so we can just pug are way threw like in WoW -
06-13-2012, 05:17 AMRyans
Isn't this entire thread moot with the confirmation of content finder, not just recently but something we've known about for a year, and how it will be used for more than just raids to find groups? Don't complain about something that is being fixed.
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06-13-2012, 05:21 AMAlokin1988
Party content is a good thing but not when its left to stand on its own. If Yoshi wants to keep a good bit of the content in FFXIV for parties instead of players he needs to provide two things.
1. A search function similar to the one found in Rift or WoW. Try and keep it on the same server though.
2. An incentive for higher level players to rerun that content. Rare mounts with small drop rates can be all the incentive ever needed. Earning some kind of experience, renown, legacy, nation points, etc... -
06-13-2012, 05:21 AMKowenYou're correct, but the problem is that the content finder isn't coming until version 2.0, so the one-time-only story quests that people are having trouble completing now won't exist anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans
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06-13-2012, 05:22 AMSenuska
To every one who is unsure why solo players play MMOs I direct you to this article in Massively
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06-13-2012, 05:27 AMAndrienNice find. I agree with the journalist too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senuska
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06-13-2012, 06:01 AMKoroma_tanukiI could not possibily Dissagree any Harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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06-13-2012, 06:19 AMZezlar
They need to find a decent balance of half and half. Either way whether solo or party only it's going to kill the fun for the opposite group.
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06-13-2012, 06:42 AMDarthTaru
In FFXI a time came when I decided I needed to unlock sea access. To do this I had to get through the CoP expansion. It was an incredible expansion, both for content and for game lore. I had to go above and beyond to accomplish this and the highs were highs and the lows were lows. Some nights I would have to build a party for longer than I would have wanted to and travel across the world (without instant teleports), overcome difficult situations and all just to fail in the end and have to try again another day. Defeats were sometimes crushing but victories were sometimes some of the great thrills of all my experiences in an MMO.
If FFXI had a forum with whiny casuals wanting instant gratification they would have all been crying to nerf and `make solo` the greatest expansion in the history of MMO's. This is why XI veterans react with a certain hostility to the WoW crowd always asking for easier while at the same time claiming "they don't mind difficult content."
I could solo FFXIV's main storyline quest. I couldn't even come close to soloing CoP. One was memorable, one was completely forgettable.
What the OP is asking for is a content nerf, pure and simple. And why? Because on one night he couldn't find other people who needed it or strangers who didn't sign up to be his personal quest-minions for no reason other than that's what he wanted to do. It didn't work out, that one night, and now he, she, and they, want a game change because of it.
This is probably never going to end. These threads pop up regularly. It's the `casuals` (or just people not that great at the game) who are quick to say "they want content for everyone" but the reality is they don't. They just want everything nerfed. They think they are the bar from which all standards are set.
I imagine once Odin and other open world HNMs are released they'll cry for a nerf. It won't matter that they can do some things by themselves. The moment they see something they can't do, like always, they'll take to the forums and start crying foul, claiming all of these mobs need to be gimped and thrown in an instance that scaled to how many people they have in their party, if any, because "not everyone can have a good linkshell" etc.
In XI the community realized and accepted the fact that it was their responsibility to RISE to the difficulty level of the content. Since the WoW influx, people have decided it's the content that needs to be scaled down to them.
It boggles the mind that after the disaster that was FFXIV 2010 there are people essentially asking to go back to it.
Pro tip: If you can't get people to help you in Ul'dah, go to the dungeon entrance and either follow a full party inside or look for a group of 6 or 7 heading in that you can get an invite from. You know, show some initiative. That or do something else for the night until another opportunity presents itself -
06-13-2012, 07:01 AMKujinRen
MMO stands for Massive Multi-player Online. I don't understand why so many of the overly-casual players complain about grouping up in a "multi-player" game.
If I wanted to solo, I would go play a console Final Fantasy. Just saying... -
06-13-2012, 07:06 AMgiolli
The problem is that any content that requires a full party should be isolated from any progress based elements. That isn't really the case here.
Its understandable that some content and rewards are exclusive to such content. However, things like ranking up in your chosen company shouldn't require you to do a raid or full party instance. Some people would rather be playing the game then sitting lfg for significant lengths of time.
I would argue there are some design flaws in 1.0 that do hurt casuals extremely. I would also argue the community needs to learn how to use the search feature. When people use it as intended its a very helpful feature. But alas, most stick to ls or shouting in uldah. -
06-13-2012, 07:10 AMC56
@DarthTaru The problem is the lack of people willing to do the content rather then it being too hard. In reality most of the content is super easy with a party. But the problem is finding player who would want to do the content with others. Show some initiative my arse, if no one wants to do it, the content itself is flawed.
The fact that this thread is here show the communities lack of care towards others and poorly designed content that offers no incentives to be repeated. CoP was done because people needed it completed to do end game. So no matter what, it had to be done and people were willing to help get it done because they needed people for end game. Here it's not really necessary and with people and their clicks and lack of end game things to do, people wouldn't bother to help others.
Sorry it's more of a crappy community problem with people who scream "casual" at anyone who offers an opinion that would benefit most new players. If you have beaten the content already you shouldn't have a say, sorry your time is past now and the incoming players are pretty much at the mercy of older players because of this flawed nonsense. -
06-13-2012, 07:14 AMPunainen
I agree. I don't mind needing a party for other stuff, but when it comes to the main plot, I hate NEEDING a party. Especially when usually no one wants to help me. And I feel like a burden asking strangers (I'm too casual a player to keep people around who like to help eachother) to travel out into the middle of nowhere just for one short fight where they will get no reward.
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06-13-2012, 07:26 AMKowenYou're being very dramatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthTaru
I had a really similar experience with getting sea access. I couldn't find anybody to do the missions with me, so I took the initiative and used FFXIAH's player browser and asked tons of people who were at the same point if they wanted to form a static. Eventually I got a group together and we got it all done, and had a blast in the process.
We don't have anything like that with XIV though. There really isn't a whole lot of "taking initiative" someone can do besides standing around in Ul'dah shouting. Not only that, but there are just far fewer players in general.
I think the majority of the content in an MMO should be group-based, and the content finder will definitely solve a lot of the problems people are having. But it's not being "casual" to ask that the few quests we're getting before then be a little more convenient to do, or for them to have more incentive to help others. -
06-13-2012, 08:07 AMFiosha_Maureiba
Kinda back tracing a bit to this thread, I do agree that the main plot shouldn't be group based. To be able to read and re-read a dialogue, speak to all the NPCs in an instance, and then view the cutscene without having to see party member chat interspersed. At the inn, you can replay the cutscene, but not necessarily relive the conversations nearby, breathe in the moment, take a few screen shots, etc.
I imagine you won't always find a party of like-minded individuals, so sometimes you may have the party member that could put the pressure of the unloving sponge upon you Camate-change-your-avatar-to-a-chimera-please and other stuff that may impact, dare I use the I word! Yes, I dare to. It impacts my ixperience. -
06-13-2012, 08:15 AMLeonesaurusI used to feel the same exact way, and in most parts I still do, to a degree. For instance, when the game first came out I was dreadful that if I had to be in a full party to do main storyline or eventually the grand company storyline quests, that people would rush me through cutscenes and plot to just beat some boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goufunaki
After playing nearly two years of this game, I've been very lucky to get in there day 1 of patches and group up with my long time buddies in the linkshell and have fun experiencing it together, at our own pace.
But for players without a LS and without people to cope with their pacing and personal enjoyment for the storyline, I can see the issue. Especially since people are forgetting that this game, as with all other Final Fantasy games, are about the story and characters, not about the best loot.
I'm probably one of the very few that actually loves the story and characters and creatures in this game, and its overall lore. I think it's probably one of the best in the series I've played so far.
I doubt they can design the game's future around one player being able to breeze through the entire storyline by themselves, at their own pace, but maybe there are some corners they can cut, or things they can adjust to make it possible, ex: single-player mode with an NPC assistant(s).
But anyway, I hope the OP finds some closure on the matter and can enjoy it! -
06-13-2012, 09:25 AMLefeauge
I definitely agree with the OP. For me personally, finding a party to do content in this game has always been a struggle. When I read this thread I see many people saying that the OP wishes to make content easier. I see this as an opportunity for more people to experience content at their own pace.
A problem with this game is that we have almost zero new players joining us in Eorzea. Which means that outdated content like the Artifact gear quests, GC Quests (Not really discussing Divided We Stand, that quest is not really great for argument because the quest was just released, everyone is doing it.) and class quests are barely be done. All the players are at max level, why would they go back and help someone else do it? Not to mention a new player that is having trouble finding a linkshell, or getting help from the newly acquired linkshell. I have spent hours shouting for Artifact Gear quests, for me to not even get enough players, and since people have time restraints while playing, not everyone can wait around for several hours. It's a flawed system.
Making content have a solo mode, for a low reward and advancement of storyline would be an excellent addition to this game. The current version of this tends to be solo only and poorly executed (Running through areas with level 83 monsters isn't intense or 'hard', it's a poor design choice.) For their to be a version of a storyline quest that allows players to progress the story on their own, while giving the option to experience it as a group for added intensity, experience and possible loot, allows for people to progress while not being held back by the game's community. It gives the player choice, which is always an excellent thing to add in an MMORPG.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this addition. -
06-13-2012, 11:05 AMZezlar
There is no coherent sense in having a storyline that usually revolves around saving the world and being able to do it alone.
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06-13-2012, 01:09 PMDano
I think the real issue here, which has been mentioned repeatedly, is finding groups/help for old content vs new content.
If the content is new, people will flock to it, doesn't matter if it's solo or grouped. ie: "United we Stand", Hamlet. People do it because most still need it.
If the content is old, most would have done it already and there's no incentive to go back to do it again, now the difference becomes apparent whether it's soloable or party based.
A great example would be the GC quest "It Kills with Fire", I'm sure by now any level 50 can solo that ifrit easily, but the content requires at least 4 person to enter the instance, most of the population is already on "Ifrit Bleeds", i can bet it's very difficult to find pick up groups for this now, even within the LS people has to beg for it.
In the end this creates a gap between new and existing players and it'll inevitably alienate new players, which is bad for the longevity of the game as well. -
06-13-2012, 02:47 PMindirathing is the main story is all about you and what you seen and what your going to have to do. things like GC should be large scale.Quote:
If you want a Solo focused story go play a solo player game. Not saying keep things large scale partys but the story SHOULD force you to play with others.
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06-13-2012, 03:05 PMAndrien
Since we're on that subject. I like it when a game gives you a choice to make. For example your actions and answers can change how a story unfolds. I've seen it practiced in both offline and MMO main campaign missions. I'd like something like that here.
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06-13-2012, 04:51 PMSeif
Difficulty scaling on the pt size from 1 to however many they can support please?
Monster Hunter 3 does this really well so why can't XIV?
I don't think a storyline mission should be a cakewalk no matter what kind of party you're doing it with but at the same time begging other people to do storyline quests with you is not only humiliating but also boring to participate in.
I hate the idea that thousands of players won't finish the storyline not because of their skill level but because of the arbitrary limits placed on it by bad game design.
Scaling is not that hard because in instances SE controls the amount of enemies and participants without any random elements.
Instances take away a lot of emergent gameplay possibilities but the upside of instances should be utilized too. -
06-13-2012, 05:58 PMEard
star wars: the old republic anyone?
game starts off with a very big bang and you(and tom and dick and harry) rambo all the way to the end saving the galaxy single-handedly.
but what's happening to it now? nobody complain about not being able to do the story, they just quietly leave the game.
what went wrong?
its just a game, not a mmorpg -
06-13-2012, 07:09 PMEsk
The Job quests make little sense in regards to group quests.
They are about you being the hero, so they should let you be the hero alone, their aren't a handful of people who help the BRD guy overcome his issues, its you..
IMO they should have a lot of story content and quests for you, if they are going your the hero style story, over the your one of the hero's style.
Both solo and group are needed in a mmo, so why can't they have both types running alone side each other?
Why do people seem so focused on applying the failed logic of have one or the other to it.
We Can And Should Have Both! ;)
I've not got around to SWToR yet, but I'll agree my interest was the story as the game appeared to be hugely lacking in some areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eard
But lets see.. What a mmo can do that is group focused:
- Group story content.
- Actually having enough end game objectives/instances.
- Group Dungeons.
- Group Crafting.
- Guild/LS/Company based quests/content.
- Group Achievements.
- Chocobo Racing.
- Group Mini Games.
And solo we could have:
- Multiple Storyline's.
- Solo challenges.
- Area style quests/challenge.
- Achievements.
- Chocobo Racing.
- Mini Games.
- LS/Company based quests/content.
Some of the content should cross from solo to group and group to solo but not heavy story related content, but the more challenge based content..
But a lot or even most shouldn't, you should be able to chose to play solo or in a group.
Having great and lots of solo content isn't a bad thing, as long as you have the same and more Group.
Ok at least 50% of the games End content should be group focused imo, it is an mmo.
But what reason is their not to have a lot of good solo content along side the great group content? -
06-13-2012, 07:56 PMYellow
I have to agree to some extent.
I'm completely for group involvement... but not at the expense of sitting in Ul'dah for 4 hours and to not get a group.
I don't want to do a leve. I want to freaking progress in my story.
See group content is only successful as long as there are people who are willing to help others who haven't done it, or enough people who haven't done it to make a group.
It's easy for most of you guys to find groups because you're usually all on in US (assuming most of you are American) time.
How people in different timezones generally log on when there's hardly anyone else on.. so how is it fair for us to miss out?
I don't want content to be easier -- so don't mistake me for some 'solo play casual' that I see happening a lot.
I'm just getting sick of waiting hours in Ul'dah with a bunch of lazy players sitting around me complaining they have nothing to do. Not to mention 2 nights ago I finally formed a party after 3 hours of waiting, I get to Natalan, we wipe in the first couple of minutes (party problems) and then some guy leaves.
This is not enjoyable or fun. To those who say 'Get your LS to help', uhh I don't know about you, but I'm not too keen on spamming my LS for assistance as well as the fact that not everyone is in a LS that has people who are willing to help.
I'm always stuck with Japanese players who most of the time do not want anything to do with me because I don't speak their language (I try as hard as I can with the Auto translate feature, and It's not like I'm rude...) 'JP ONRY'
I feel like there has been a huge change in the game. When I first started playing, I could walk into Gridania and have a level 50 ask me if I need any help. Now I need to sit amongst groups of level 50s running in circles in Ul'dah spamming /shout until someone pities me enough to help.
(this is before 2.0 .. there is no freaking way I'm waiting for 2.0 to finally get AF gear...) -
06-13-2012, 10:05 PMgiolli
If anything, you have three pillars of content...
Top Tier - These are your full party raids and instances. These off the most lucrative rewards. Currently this includes, Ifrit, Moogle, Garuda, AV, CC, Hamlet, Darkhold, Company, AF and Relic Weapons.
Middle Tier - This is content that will at least require light party to complete. The rewards will won't be a awesome as Top Tier, but they'll still be worth completing for many players. Currently this includes most NMs, Dzemael, strongholds.
Bottom Tier - This is solo content or content that may require an additional player. It is the most accessible and rewards are "sufficient". Currently this includes seal farming, gil farming, levequests.
Yoshi talks about his 3 pillars that make it an MMO and that you need it balanced in order for it to stand. The content that makes up a MMO is no different... you need a balance of Bottom, Middle and Top Tier content. Too much on the bottom, and the game won't be of interest to anyone (not even casuals!). Too much on Top, and you really alienate casuals (your biggest audience!).
Currently the game is very top heavy. Even middle tier content is relegated to seal farming (Darkhold) and completionists (NM achievements and items). Even Hamlet requires a full group - which is unacceptable imo. Something like that should be scalable.
Progress through your company should open up Top Tier content as it currently does. However, to continue through the rest of the soloable quests, you should not have to complete any of the raids or instances. I am actually okay with AF having a dependency on Top Tier content. I am actually okay with Relic Weapons having a dependency on Top Tier content but right now its just too painful in its current implementation.
Some people just want to play the game (could care less about the shiny rewards). In its current state, its just to painful to experience a bulk of the game. Hopefully this will all change with 2.0. -
06-13-2012, 10:18 PMAntipikaI really would like to see XIV storyline getting on SWTOR level first before being even criticizing SWTOR... So far XIV is far behind, so far...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eard
People aren't leaving the game because the storyline was soloable. Lack of updates and unbalanced endgame/raid is also what made people progressing too fast leaving.
The storyline and leveling phase were extremely polished, and on the first months after release, everyone was really enjoying it. But then, when it suddently all ends, all you are left with is a huge "I saved the galaxy, I made my way to the top, what now?".
Dungeons (Flashpoints)? Raids (Operations)? It was fun for a bit, but lacked balance and raids weren't rewarding enough (lol at 8-mans giving the same rewards as 16-mans raids). Rewards stats were barely any better than Hard Mode Dungeons rewards as well. Itemization wasn't well made (crafting made useless).
Daily activities weren't fun. Once you were done with storyline all you could do is:
- Run Hard Mode 4-mans dungeons
- Do the only available raid (8-mans or 16-mans), once a week.
- Chain daily quests, all on the same planet and always the very same 6-7 quests (don't do this if you get loot in raid, because they're superior)
- PvP (if you like PvP)
I really got bored quickly :s -
06-13-2012, 10:52 PMRahJahHow do you take a boss fight that should require several jobs working together in unison (i.e. whm, blm, tank, DD, support jobs) and turn it into a solo battle? I played FFXI and it took me i dunno 350+days of compiled play time to get though all the story line through Treasures of Aht Urhgan, but when I think about it... how fun would those fights have been if I would have used my whm to solo through all the battle content lol. PATIENCE is a virtue. If the content is epic then its worth the wait. This is MMO, I say content should require party play.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
The same people that want to do all the content solo probably can't wait to open their Christmas presents on Christmas day, am I right? lol just teasing -
06-13-2012, 11:10 PMLillithaFenimoreNo offense, but going to Youtube to see another character's adventure kinda cheapens an already lacking story :/ No thanks, I'd rather exp it for myself on my own time, Op I agree with you 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
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06-13-2012, 11:16 PMKowenI'm pretty sure you're referring to GW2 in particular since you seem to like it a lot (heck, I love it too!).Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
Even though it works really well in that game, and would be great for some things here, I wouldn't want everything in XIV to scale. I think having really challenging boss fights that require a full group is something that's very "Final Fantasy," and taking that away would also take a way a bit of that FF feeling Yoshida (rightly) feels the game should have.
I would rather see big fights like that create incentive by giving worthwhile bonus rewards to people who help, rather than scale down in difficulty for smaller parties. -
06-13-2012, 11:30 PMGoufunakiAs for the GC missions at least, don't design the fights to be so party heavy.Quote:
Originally Posted by RahJah
This game isn't exactly booming with people on the same quest as you yet, or those willing to repeat them again for nothing. Too late to change that now, I know. But if I had a plot that wasn't going to be around for long, I'd want everyone currently playing to have a fair chance at experincing it.