Anyone else just feeling really disapointed this expansion?*vent*

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Originally Posted by Cach

So it's the usual stuff plus other stuff that might catch on or might burn itself out before the first week is even over. I'm holding out hope for criterion dungeons, but its a coin toss whether it succeeds or not.
I've noticed "patch apathy" settling in much faster than it used to. You ask yourself "why should I do x now, if next patch I will do Y instead and invalidate previous stuff". The negative side of the patch reliability I guess, specially if you have several expansions on you.


Not gonna lie, the weird "THIS IS WHAT REAL FINAL FANTASY IS" gaslighting going on in the forums is starting to get on my nerves.

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It's one of the most idiotic arguments, really. People trying to dictate what "real final fantasy" is when Square-Enix hasn't gotten a grasp on it since Sakaguchi left. Every Final Fantasy since X has been a war of directors stating "this is MY vision of what Final Fantasy is".
Those are usually the same players who claim new SMN is more "FF-like" even though the way Summoning works in FF hasn't been the same in over two decades.

The one thing that is holding this game back in my opinion is job design. EW job design is just ShB 2.0 with only small changes and tweaks. No real innovative changes and the two minute burst window is kinda annoying, but it hasn't really effected me that much since PLD is my only job at max level. Job design is bland, and as someone who's into this game for the gameplay aspects and as a Healer main, it's practically the most disappointing aspect of the game. I love the content and I wouldn't mind trying everything out if I had time, but job design needs to be better.

If 7.0 offers no real innovative changes and it's just ShB 3.0, I'll quit.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The sad thing is that it's not even damage control, it causes damage. When it comes to unhappy customers, 9 out of 10 decide the game isn't for them and silently leave and a small number care enough to actually complain and offer feedback. By stifling that feedback, the community pushes away the few complainers and also ensures the silent leavers never have a reason to return either.

It happened a lot in WoW. Their community positivity brigade was convinced everything was fine and for a good while it was on the surface. Then their playerbase halved and it was still "fine, it's an old game dude, this is normal, MMO's aren't as popular, game is great", then it halved again while they stopped publishing numbers and now they're barely at a quarter of their original. But it's still "fine".

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How bloody ironic. :D If anything causes damage, it's the negativity brigade that exists because we're not allowed to even have a neutral opinion on this board without being called names or this ridiculous reference comes up. It is the unfortunate norm of MMOs and we accept it, but we're still pushing for change with a degree of patience unlike anything you'll ever fathom.

btw, when it comes to any threads sharing the slightest bit of positivity about the game, I tend to ignore them as I know the usual suspects will show up and try to piss on everything. :rolleyes: Ya'll are sad and bitter people and some of you need some real help.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Look at all the usual suspects acting as unpaid PR damage control lmao. I share the sentiment OP. Not particularly interested in MSQ much after EW, I think the only content I enjoy is Frontlines, and even that has massive problems. Finding it harder and harder to find reasons to log in, which I dont like, but it is what it is.

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I'm usually one of the usual suspects defending the game, but I think a lot of the long-timers feel comfortable enough voicing our concerns and calling out the bad when we see it. You're not wrong though- some haters just gonna hate, and some defenders just gonna defend logic be damned.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Yoshida noted in a recent interview that they actually have some new staff on board.

They're working on some of these items, but it can't just happen on its own and fill the space of a year or two. They have to keep putting out the content.

5) have you suggested this anywhere else?

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I'm glad they're picking up staff and certainly wouldn't expect major improvements even before 8.0...but knowing that's a thing they're actively working on would be a good thing to know.
Like you said, they gotta pay the bills first and foremost.
For 5, Not a bad idea; I don't know how useful it would be without some extra work to mock it up other than just saying "fix ya'll shops yo!" but I might give that a look. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'm keen to see what Riot and some other upcoming projects (including Ashes) are going to do. With MMOs it's best not to raise one's hopes, but I am keeping an eye on them.

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Riot does literally what Yoshi-P did with the original FFXIV. They're going to copy what is popular for the MMORPG format at the time, adapt to Runaterra lore and change something here and there to make it more casual-friendly to get into then profit on the character and world alone.
That's literally what they've done in every single one of their games since LoL. So I really don't get why people unhappy with XIV think Riot's will be a better experience.

And worse still, it will be a free to play MMORPG. If people think Mogstation management is greedy, wait til they see what gets done in a MMORPG with no sub and no license purchase.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Riot does literally what Yoshi-P did with the original FFXIV. They're going to copy what is popular for the MMORPG format at the time, adapt to Runaterra lore and change something here and there to make it more casual-friendly to get into then profit on the character and world alone.
That's literally what they've done in every single one of their games since LoL. So I really don't get why people unhappy with XIV think Riot's will be a better experience.

And worse still, it will be a free to play MMORPG. If people think Mogstation management is greedy, wait til they see what gets done in a MMORPG with no sub and no license purchase.

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I agree for the most part, though I think there are a few people saying this because they want XIV to stop resting on its laurels and improve as a game, a new popular MMO competing for success would be reason enough for SE to do this- especially if Riot tries to one-up them by copying XIV. Do I think it will happen though? Probably not, there's been next to no news of this supposed Riot MMO and there's not even a guarantee it will ship.

Uhh, not really.

I think they can do a lot better including areas such as job design, or just overall rework more systems that have core issues. E.g., glamouring.

I can't really be disappointed in the expansion seeing as it has been my favorite thus far and is only looking at getting better. But alas, I can only speak for myself.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

How bloody ironic. :D If anything causes damage, it's the negativity brigade that exists because we're not allowed to even have a neutral opinion on this board without being called names or this ridiculous reference comes up. It is the unfortunate norm of MMOs and we accept it, but we're still pushing for change with a degree of patience unlike anything you'll ever fathom.

btw, when it comes to any threads sharing the slightest bit of positivity about the game, I tend to ignore them as I know the usual suspects will show up and try to piss on everything. :rolleyes: Ya'll are sad and bitter people and some of you need some real help.

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Yes, you're being truly neutral :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

btw, when it comes to any threads sharing the slightest bit of positivity about the game, I tend to ignore them as I know the usual suspects will show up and try to piss on everything. :rolleyes: Ya'll are sad and bitter people and some of you need some real help.

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In reality, the moment a positive thread appears, the community positivity brigade rushes in to spam it with "Uh oh, watch out OP, here come the negative people!", "bet this won't last lol <popcorn>", "Finally some positivity, everyone is so negative" and other passive aggressive digs at people who complain before a complaint is even posted, then the moment someone dares point out that negative feedback is fine too, they all gleefully jump on them and tear them to pieces and the thread gets derailed.

It's rather disturbing behavior really and suggests a far stronger need for irl help.

We all need to put things into perspective: This is a nine-year old game. Even older if you count 1.0. No game lasts forever. Square Enix puts in the usual stuff, which is basically the same as the old stuff. It’s only one game, after all, you can’t expect it to change every two years. And that $40 per expac is really just charging for the story mode, they don’t really expect you to continue playing long after that.

Yoshida and our community agree that FFXIV is not a live-service product and should never be played as such. You pay for the content, you finish it, and then you leave. This isn’t like WoW or Guild Wars 2 or ESO. It’s sad that people got the wrong idea when buying this game, but it’s up to the customer to do proper research before buying. It’s like expecting FFXV to still have new content. XIV is just 15 minus 1, so what’s the difference?

As Yoshida says, just unsubscribe, that’s Square Enix’s position and there’s nothing we can do to change it. FFXIV will end up tanking in subscribers, and SE will likely be happy, as they never planned (or can afford) for this game to become so popular.

Think of FFXIV as a side project for SE; it’s not like Blizzard which has WoW as one of their main projects. Square Enix makes a ton of games and FFXIV is just a fraction of their total revenue. Moderate your expectations.

I also feel a lot of people online hype this game too much. It was definitely big to do during the whole Blizzard scandal but it really bugged me somewhat how people oversell FFXIV for being this top MMO, with this "best JRPG story ever told" nonsense because it gets people to start putting such high expectations for a lot of the things. Like me, how I got caught thinking somehow HW and ShB we're going to be these amazing thought provoking epic stories when in reality they were just "fine for the course" imo.

It's clear that while the devs love their game and have a passion for it, with their model and design they don't believe FFXIV is warranted for such high praise with it's design. There's a lot of problems that takes a long time for them to implement and I feel their newfound spot in the limelight caught them off guard somewhat. At least I feel that's partially what's up.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

In reality, the moment a positive thread appears, the community positivity brigade rushes in to spam it with "Uh oh, watch out OP, here come the negative people!", "bet this won't last lol <popcorn>", "Finally some positivity, everyone is so negative" and other passive aggressive digs at people who complain before a complaint is even posted, then the moment someone dares point out that negative feedback is fine too, they all gleefully jump on them and tear them to pieces and the thread gets derailed.

It's rather disturbing behavior really and suggests a far stronger need for irl help.

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No, it actually doesn't. The reality of the situation is the world is a shitty place and people are trying to carve out the slightest bit of fun where they can get it. To go in there and try to shut that down is the worst kind of behaviour. I may not have the best approach to some of the topics that comes through, but I'm not going to shit on someone for legit enjoying the game and having fun in their own way. FFS, we have people in here still upset over a cat having a cheezburger. Of course, there's people like you, trying to judge someone's skill in the game without actually playing along side them. Miss me with that bullshit. :rolleyes:

It is all about perspective and some of you are severely lacking in it.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

No, it actually doesn't. The reality of the situation is the world is a shitty place and people are trying to carve out the slightest bit of fun where they can get it. To go in there and try to shut that down is the worst kind of behaviour. I may not have the best approach to some of the topics that comes through, but I'm not going to shit on someone for legit enjoying the game and having fun in their own way. FFS, we have people in here still upset over a cat having a cheezburger. Of course, there's people like you, trying to judge someone's skill in the game without actually playing along side them. Miss me with that bullshit. :rolleyes:

It is all about perspective and some of you are severely lacking in it.

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I also find its very easy and acceptable in this community space to be the critically cynical person rather than Johnny Goody Two Shoes with posting positive threads. Everything nowadays feels like anything people post is a personal attack of sorts to people.

I'm not exempt from this behavior lol, it's how I can even say that.

*everyone going "muh cheezeburger"*

Do you even know why people complain about that? From what I remember, that was only a drop in the bucket of issues in EW but everyone latched on to it like CNN/AP was talking about it non stop, lmao. I can see why people would rather shut down discussion like that though, critical thinking tends to make these sort of issues stick out so why bother tackling it when you have a handy slogan to repeat ad nauseum. Why trouble yourself when you can just glaze your eyes over and forge ahead, lol.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

In reality, the moment a positive thread appears, the community positivity brigade rushes in to spam it with "Uh oh, watch out OP, here come the negative people!", "bet this won't last lol <popcorn>", "Finally some positivity, everyone is so negative" and other passive aggressive digs at people who complain before a complaint is even posted, then the moment someone dares point out that negative feedback is fine too, they all gleefully jump on them and tear them to pieces and the thread gets derailed.

It's rather disturbing behavior really and suggests a far stronger need for irl help.

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Someone posting "uh oh, this is going to get negative quickly" on an online forum is not indicative of having mental issues in real life. Trying to frame anyone that posts something like that as having mental problems IS however indicative of bad faith, strawmanning, and gaslighting.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

We all need to put things into perspective: This is a nine-year old game. Even older if you count 1.0. No game lasts forever. Square Enix puts in the usual stuff, which is basically the same as the old stuff. It’s only one game, after all, you can’t expect it to change every two years. And that $40 per expac is really just charging for the story mode, they don’t really expect you to continue playing long after that.

Yoshida and our community agree that FFXIV is not a live-service product and should never be played as such. You pay for the content, you finish it, and then you leave. This isn’t like WoW or Guild Wars 2 or ESO. It’s sad that people got the wrong idea when buying this game, but it’s up to the customer to do proper research before buying. It’s like expecting FFXV to still have new content. XIV is just 15 minus 1, so what’s the difference?

As Yoshida says, just unsubscribe, that’s Square Enix’s position and there’s nothing we can do to change it. FFXIV will end up tanking in subscribers, and SE will likely be happy, as they never planned (or can afford) for this game to become so popular.

Think of FFXIV as a side project for SE; it’s not like Blizzard which has WoW as one of their main projects. Square Enix makes a ton of games and FFXIV is just a fraction of their total revenue. Moderate your expectations.

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Not a live service product? Sure didn't stop them from regularly shoving everything under the sun into the mog station.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Not a live service product? Sure didn't stop them from regularly shoving everything under the sun into the mog station.

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It's optional glamours and mounts (and leveling services, but shhh!) so it's okay! What are you, poor? SE really needs that money after baby's fall shut down! Won't anyone think of the multibillion yen corporation?!

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I agree for the most part, though I think there are a few people saying this because they want XIV to stop resting on its laurels and improve as a game, a new popular MMO competing for success would be reason enough for SE to do this- especially if Riot tries to one-up them by copying XIV. Do I think it will happen though? Probably not, there's been next to no news of this supposed Riot MMO and there's not even a guarantee it will ship.

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It definitely will. It's been gradually teased by one of their writers. MMORPGs take a long time to get ready to launch however. Riot's MMO will probably not have a video teaser until 2024.

It could well bring competition against XIV. But in 2~3 years an unexpected new big MMO could come out of nowhere, as well. Truthfully no one except the people being asked to "quit" will see XIV's fall from the throne happening until it's too late. Most people don't notice those things right away.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

It definitely will. It's been gradually teased by one of their writers. MMORPGs take a long time to get ready to launch however. Riot's MMO will probably not have a video teaser until 2024.

It could well bring competition against XIV. But in 2~3 years an unexpected new big MMO could come out of nowhere, as well. Truthfully no one except the people being asked to "quit" will see XIV's fall from the throne happening until it's too late. Most people don't notice those things right away.

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Tencent/Riot is making an MMO? Eh, I don't like the mogshop here so I doubt Tencent will be able to keep it in their pants. I would not be shocked if it was a Guild Wars/ESO sort of deal where they will just charge for everything once you buy the base game.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Tencent/Riot is making an MMO? Eh, I don't like the mogshop here so I doubt Tencent will be able to keep it in their pants. I would not be shocked if it was a Guild Wars/ESO sort of deal where they will just charge for everything once you buy the base game.

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They'll keep it in their pants unless Riot goes against the CCP, which won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Tencent/Riot is making an MMO? Eh, I don't like the mogshop here so I doubt Tencent will be able to keep it in their pants. I would not be shocked if it was a Guild Wars/ESO sort of deal where they will just charge for everything once you buy the base game.

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There is a chance they might follow that monetization type, but Riot's history suggests they believe going full free to play is key to their success. The big question is how aggressive the MTX will be this time, because in terms of cost and return a MMORPG is a very different beast to everything else they have done so far. If they manage to keep their arguably unintrusive model, even thought I wouldn't touch any LoL related product with a ten-foot pole they'd be well deserved of commendations.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

There is a chance they might follow that monetization type, but Riot's history suggests they believe going full free to play is key to their success. The big question is how aggressive the MTX will be this time, because in terms of cost and return a MMORPG is a very different beast to everything else they have done so far. If they manage to keep their arguably unintrusive model, even thought I wouldn't touch any LoL related product with a ten-foot pole they'd be well deserved of commendations.

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Tencent holds the keys to the kingdom. Again, I doubt they will be able to hold it back if they even bother, lol. I'm with you on the second half though, I loved Titanfall 1 and 2 despite EA. Even then EA had to go "No, this is too much fun and not enough profits! Shut it down!". :/

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

That $40 per expac is really just charging for the story mode, they don’t really expect you to continue playing long after that.

Yoshida and our community agree that FFXIV is not a live-service product and should never be played as such. You pay for the content, you finish it, and then you leave. This isn’t like WoW or Guild Wars 2 or ESO. It’s sad that people got the wrong idea when buying this game, but it’s up to the customer to do proper research before buying.

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Ok, so if I’m supposed to regard a game that’s an MMORPG whether you believe so or no as a single player game, then I’m sorry to say that FFXIV is hardly one that I could recommend. Not with a 50 hour tutorial that has terrible battle gameplay that in some cases extends far beyond that with certain classes, or a story conclusion that was as catastrophic as Endwalker’s was.

For those of us who are primarily single player gamers, here’s some stuff to play instead:

• The Witcher 3 (the means now exists to play using Henry Cavill’s face rather than the default one)
• Octopath Traveller (and its sequel coming soon)
• Dragon Age Origins, II, and Inquisition (better parties, more mature storytelling that is largely absent in modern day FFXIV)
• The Diofield Chronicle (high fantasy world that takes itself seriously)
• Fire Emblem 3 Houses (more player agency, more lovable characters)
• Resident Evil 2, 3, and 8 (with a remake of 4 on the way)
• Nier and Nier Automata (for those who tire of FFXIV's insufferable hero worship and I-Win! gizmos)
• the entire rest of the mainline FF series

If merely a single player experience that’s one and done is what you’re after, better to go down this list. Or alternatively, assuming you can make it past ARR which is an extraordinary feat these days, probably best to just quit at 5.3, prior to when everything in the main story started going downhill. As for me, I turn in my leves once every 2 weeks and watch the situation unfold from a distance. Disconnected as I am, it’ll be too easy to part ways should 7.0 be poised to fail in delivering what FFXIV needs most in terms of story and gameplay.

Odd thing about Ffxiv is that unless you enjoy keeping up with the endgame content like raids and such youre kinda better off coming in around the end of an expansion cycle.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

• Dragon Age Origins, II, and Inquisition (better parties, more mature storytelling that is largely absent in modern day FFXIV)

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Didn't DA2 and Inquisition get panned for it's story and regressive feeling combat compared to Origins? Also, I would be a bit selective when telling people to play "all the FF mainline series". Don't you remember the ending of 13-3? I do. It somehow went so weird and silly it became funny. I mean... Paris? Seriously? lmao

yeah i know how you feel, this expac just feels bad to me.
and on top of that all the problems FF14 now has at least for me, i raid in pf and it is horrible.

the loot system is so outdated it isnt funny. trying to gear up is just horrible 5 weeks in and havent won a single roll. so since i need 3 accesories out of P5s it is going to take me 12 weeks prob of clear just for 1 class. P6,7 and 8 is in the same boat.
last 2 primals were also bad for pf, so no fun there.
last time i actually had fun in a raid tier was prob E4s.
so many classes need rework and not like the smn one (i liked old smn)

and on top of that the balancing issues it has both in pvp and pve.
think this might be it for me to, specially when they say we have the roadmap for the next 10 years and there are so many problems right now.

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Originally Posted by Sweetness

I started to zone out once we started playing dressup with the bunnies when the world was supposed to be ending. I was fully clocked out during ultima thule segment with the fake sense of loss..
I stayed subbed just for the lottery release back in 6.1, in hopes of getting a house.
You guys know how that went, the "no winner bug" didn't get repaired for a month. In a game you have to sub for!:( Now plots have 150+ competitors.

I un-subscribed back then for almost 2 months and came back for 6.2 island content. I think many people were hoping Islands would be more than just retainer dispatch. Even though yoshi SAID not to hope for much, I'd rather them just...not have done it? Allocate these resources into making actual instanced housing. They both ran off the same servers anyways, because when it launched people couldn't enter their homes.

I did not like the barbariccia ex trial. I think it's poorly designed when you need to stack with somebody in the blue circle and there's a green puddle literally right where you need to be. I personally don't get who actually enjoys loading into an ex and is like"ah yes, its starting , better hit my 2minute skills every 2 minutes" it feels so linear. I think i'm burned out of everything in this game. Hate to see it, I may not come back till 7.0, if there isn't already better things to play by then. RIP my old flame

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I agree with everything you wrote except the trial -- it's my favorite trial right now.

I'm jumping back to WoW for a while. I got into the Dragonflight Beta and I love the direction Blizzard is finally starting to move toward. Hoping for a WoW renaissance.

I keep an active sub to each game, and they're the only video games I ever play. $30/month for unlimited entertainment, totally worth it, especially in times like this where I am finding one more boring than the other.

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Originally Posted by Awarewolf

I agree with everything you wrote except the trial -- it's my favorite trial right now.

I'm jumping back to WoW for a while. I got into the Dragonflight Beta and I love the direction Blizzard is finally starting to move toward. Hoping for a WoW renaissance.

I keep an active sub to each game, and they're the only video games I ever play. $30/month for unlimited entertainment, totally worth it, especially in times like this where I am finding one more boring than the other.

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In the back of my mind I have silly thoughts like WoW might pull a No Man's Sky and turn into gold but the reality hit me that NMS is more or less independently owned, WoW was bought by Microsoft. All I hope is that what is left of the WoW devs prove me wrong, lol.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Yoshida and our community agree that FFXIV is not a live-service product and should never be played as such.

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What on earth are you even talking about? This game has been repeatedly billed as a live-service product, and is refenced as such repeatedly in interviews with Yoship lol. Stop trying to bend reality to justify your agenda.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

What on earth are you even talking about? This game has been repeatedly billed as a live-service product, and is refenced as such repeatedly in interviews with Yoship lol. Stop trying to bend reality to justify your agenda.

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Then why are people telling us to unsubscribe? Why is the story “80% of the game content”? Combine the two together. A story has a beginning and an end. It is not a live service if a majority of players only play for a few hours once every four months. A live service is something you utilize during the full extent of your subscription. What we have is a hybrid approach, whereas SE charges us for a monthly live service but only gives us quarterly content drops in exchange. If we were charged for every 6.X patch, each patch would cost a whopping $52. That content does *not* last most players for a single month, let alone a full four-month cycle.

The only thing we *do* use continuously is the right to log on and play the content that we already purchased. Either the game isn’t really a live service type of deal or people are getting massively ripped off for the amount of money they pay.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

No, it actually doesn't. The reality of the situation is the world is a shitty place and people are trying to carve out the slightest bit of fun where they can get it. To go in there and try to shut that down is the worst kind of behaviour. I may not have the best approach to some of the topics that comes through, but I'm not going to shit on someone for legit enjoying the game and having fun in their own way. FFS, we have people in here still upset over a cat having a cheezburger. Of course, there's people like you, trying to judge someone's skill in the game without actually playing along side them. Miss me with that bullshit. :rolleyes:

It is all about perspective and some of you are severely lacking in it.

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No, the reality is as he describes it.

If you want a positive space with zero potential for pushback, a forum intended for discussion of the game, which SE themselves direct consumers to for critical feedback, and where you cannot control who comes in and posts, is really not the best suited venue to that.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

We all need to put things into perspective: This is a nine-year old game. Even older if you count 1.0. No game lasts forever. Square Enix puts in the usual stuff, which is basically the same as the old stuff. It’s only one game, after all, you can’t expect it to change every two years. And that $40 per expac is really just charging for the story mode, they don’t really expect you to continue playing long after that.

Yoshida and our community agree that FFXIV is not a live-service product and should never be played as such. You pay for the content, you finish it, and then you leave. This isn’t like WoW or Guild Wars 2 or ESO. It’s sad that people got the wrong idea when buying this game, but it’s up to the customer to do proper research before buying. It’s like expecting FFXV to still have new content. XIV is just 15 minus 1, so what’s the difference?

As Yoshida says, just unsubscribe, that’s Square Enix’s position and there’s nothing we can do to change it. FFXIV will end up tanking in subscribers, and SE will likely be happy, as they never planned (or can afford) for this game to become so popular.

Think of FFXIV as a side project for SE; it’s not like Blizzard which has WoW as one of their main projects. Square Enix makes a ton of games and FFXIV is just a fraction of their total revenue. Moderate your expectations.

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This is an incredibly bad take and completely misunderstands what FFXIV actually is for Square Enix. This game is the soulless cash cow that gets drained to fund all the other projects within the company. That's the entire business case of a live service title such as a subscription MMORPG such as this.


"Unsubscribe and play something else" is a line Yoshi-P uses to generate good PR because it signifies the fact that investment into the game and the content cycle won't change. End game gearing in PvE, for example, is heavily timed so you're playing for the majority of a tier and it's even more obvious if you don't do savage and have to do your alliance raid weekly to upgrade tomestone gear. Sure, you play one day a week but you do that for most of the expansion and stay subscribed for ages as the weekly coin limit isn't limited until the next tier releases.


The core FFXIV community, GCBTW, really copes themselves into believing that Yoshi-P and/or Square Enix is their friend. Do they handle things better than other games? Absolutely. Is this still a milked cash cow with the bare minimum investment to keep it going? Absolutely.

I've been taking this time to level alt jobs to 90. This has nothing to do with Endwalker, but I'm enjoying the game in spite of its pretty lacking rollout atm. Holding out for the new alliance raid, but that's about it.
potential EW spoilers ahead, so idk, read at your own risk other people.
I agree with your whole post except the barb ex part; I liked that trial. Everything else though, I feel the same way.
The writers haven't had the guts to kill off a scion in years and it's made the whole story feel like there are no stakes at all. I don't think anyone watched the ultima thule events unfold and thought it was legitimate. And if you're the type of player who does EX but doesn't dive into savage because you don't have the time or you don't have 7 other people to run it with, but you thought maybe the new 4man savages would be something for you, apparently they're saying we'll need savage bis for it so there's your middle finger to that. If you want a new 24man like I do, you'll get to wait like 9 months for it. Some optimists were sat here like "i'M nEvEr gOnNa LeAve mY iSlanD" but they completed it in a week and now they're bored and quitting and then the corporate lawyers are out here like "ur fault for rushing it" but as someone who COULDNT EVEN ENTER for the first week, I still did that shit at a snail's pace and finished fast. There just wasn't much THERE. 80% of it is just setting shit up and then waiting. The other 20% is actually gathering or catching animals. Meanwhile, the ultimate/savage raiders I know just complain about it all the god damned time even though they literally signed up for that shit.

I could go on but I won't. I've never been one to level all my combat jobs. For years I stuck to only a handful. But recently, the game's been so bereft of new things to do, that I've started just leveled everything and seeing how it plays. I'm having fun, but it's despite endwalker, not because of it.

Seems like the roadmap becomes more boring as their revenue grows. Just stay the course, keep making the money. No plans for a next-gen FF mmo, no need. No changes to ffxiv's formula. Cancelled the remake of ffxi. Buhh. I hope the single-player game FF XVI (2023) is worth it because that took away some key staff from the mmo and split the focus of some others.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fi.../1100-6507984/

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I must say, concluding a story that continued from the original Final Fantasy XIV made me feel relieved. That said, a new adventure doesn't mean that the story up to this point is all going away; it'll be a continuation of the story thus far. As for our team, we're constantly thinking "How can we get everyone excited?" So even if we're working on a new story, our everyday experiences remain largely unchanged.

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Suitably vague.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

And if you're the type of player who does EX but doesn't dive into savage because you don't have the time or you don't have 7 other people to run it with, but you thought maybe the new 4man savages would be something for you, apparently they're saying we'll need savage bis for it so there's your middle finger to that.

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I wasn't aware of that - do you recall where it was stated?

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Then why are people telling us to unsubscribe? Why is the story “80% of the game content”? Combine the two together. A story has a beginning and an end. It is not a live service if a majority of players only play for a few hours once every four months. A live service is something you utilize during the full extent of your subscription. What we have is a hybrid approach, whereas SE charges us for a monthly live service but only gives us quarterly content drops in exchange. If we were charged for every 6.X patch, each patch would cost a whopping $52. That content does *not* last most players for a single month, let alone a full four-month cycle.

The only thing we *do* use continuously is the right to log on and play the content that we already purchased. Either the game isn’t really a live service type of deal or people are getting massively ripped off for the amount of money they pay.

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You're misrepresenting what people are saying. If you're not enjoying the game STOP PLAYING IT. Every month you sub, you encourage the developers, you support whatever they are currently doing. The 10 year veterans that constantly complain on this forum HELP the game because they refuse to stop playing. Money is ultimately what corporation understands. If it isn't worth your time, then stop subbing. If you continue to sub, and continue to complain, hey, fair enough, but don't be surprised when people tell you to maybe take a break from the game because of it.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

It's one of the most idiotic arguments, really. People trying to dictate what "real final fantasy" is when Square-Enix hasn't gotten a grasp on it since Sakaguchi left. Every Final Fantasy since X has been a war of directors stating "this is MY vision of what Final Fantasy is".
Those are usually the same players who claim new SMN is more "FF-like" even though the way Summoning works in FF hasn't been the same in over two decades.

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That's EVERY FF. Besides branding, FF is constantly changing

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Then why are people telling us to unsubscribe? Why is the story “80% of the game content”? Combine the two together. A story has a beginning and an end. It is not a live service if a majority of players only play for a few hours once every four months. A live service is something you utilize during the full extent of your subscription. What we have is a hybrid approach, whereas SE charges us for a monthly live service but only gives us quarterly content drops in exchange. If we were charged for every 6.X patch, each patch would cost a whopping $52. That content does *not* last most players for a single month, let alone a full four-month cycle.

The only thing we *do* use continuously is the right to log on and play the content that we already purchased. Either the game isn’t really a live service type of deal or people are getting massively ripped off for the amount of money they pay.

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Because normally, people still have stuff they want to do to justify staying subscribed. Just because you finished the base of a current patch doesn't necessarily mean you're done for good.

I thought FFXIV was mediocre from the beta. I thought every expansion was mediocre in terms of jobs which were a let down. However, I play a lot of mediocre MMO such as MU and DCUO. When I say mediocre, I mean average. Not terrible.

I made a thread about BLU, which I was planning on unsubbing; only to re-sub because I wanted to try Island Sanctuary............... but did not realize I had to complete the game, so there is that.....A waste of game time lol......

I don't quit FFXIV perse (Regardless of how much I may trash it). I simply go on the free-trial or come back during a "Make it rain" or "Collab" event. I truly don't believe, anyone ever truly quit an MMO they invested a lot of time in (Nothing to do with the OP).

What people have to understand about me, is I came from XI. That combat system is as deep as the ocean. Every expansion was a hit. Going from that, to a theme park mmo is tough. I was expecting deep FF combat, but got WoW with updated graphics.
(Then go play XI then because we are tired of hearing about it)
"I do....and too bad......"

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Yoshida and our community agree that FFXIV is not a live-service product and should never be played as such. You pay for the content, you finish it, and then you leave.

As Yoshida says, just unsubscribe, that’s Square Enix’s position and there’s nothing we can do to change it. FFXIV will end up tanking in subscribers, and SE will likely be happy, as they never planned (or can afford) for this game to become so popular.

Think of FFXIV as a side project for SE; it’s not like Blizzard which has WoW as one of their main projects. Square Enix makes a ton of games and FFXIV is just a fraction of their total revenue. Moderate your expectations.

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Uh, I think the term live service kind of went over your head. One google search of the definition, and this is what you get. ”A live service game is a game that sees a constant stream of new content added post launch, and is purposefully designed to keep you playing years after launch. This is unlike traditional single-player games, which can be completed in a set number of hours. Such content can vary drastically”.
Now, I understand what Yoshi was saying by telling people to take a break, but it also comes off to me as a veiled sentence meaning that this game isn’t their main project and as such “don’t expect too much”. But hey, I guess we shouldn’t expect much for a game we pay monthly for /s

And I find it increasingly odd they’d keep saying that when this game’s profits were a huge chunk of Squares recent earnings. I’m looking forward to ff16 mostly at this point. I hope it will be good.