What are your thoughts on FFXIV's combat?

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Originally Posted by vetch

RPGs have gear and build choices outside of a straight vertical ladder, they have niche abilities that add flavor even when they're not used 100% of the time, story choices you can make to affect the story, enemies that actually try hard to kill the player, battles that bar your progress until you learn the game a bit more, dungeons with more than one hallway, etc., etc..

This game is more like Dynasty Warriors with a visual novel attached.

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Funny thing is there are some remnants of flavor actions in the game still, but you quickly notice the way encounters are designed whether you use them or not makes no difference, and that sucks. Easiest example are Paladin targetted mitigation actions. Since there is no encounter where you run the risk of a non-tank player being randomly made more vulnerable to lethal damage with no specific mechanic to mitigate it even if they play right, those actions only exist as emergency band-aid for player screwing up mechanics or not dodging.

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Originally Posted by Ishe-P

My opinion on FF14 combat, after drinking a bit and thinking drunkenly about stuff: it's the most boring shit ever. It's not fun, it's not inspired, it's an extension of being a football team and calling your plays on the field, which have a strategic workflow that works for some people, but doesn't work for me. If I can find something more interesting, I'll drop this piece of crap in a hot second. Why yes I am a pleasant person in real life, why do you ask?

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Oh ok, as long as we know you're pleasant c:

I find that the majority of player combat is nothing to write home about.
I do like how they generally design encounters though.

To me good combat solely depends on job design and how engaging / flexible job mechs can be on top of having some weakness to keep you thinking

BLM levels well and new skills feed into and add a bit more depth / layers to UI \ AF phases with sharpcast giving some flexibility and early despair if needed ect.

NIN I feel is ok but lacks some engagement past ARR mudras no longer interact with huton , ninki and meisui similar, why can't NIN spend ninki to augment mudras in the same way as katssatsu ? Same for meisui but phantom kamachi is a nice touch I suppose

GNB I also feel lacks some depth, cartridge system doesn't really expand or add any layers . . .why can't it have another combo to proc another kind of cartridge ect.

Overall wouldn't say the combat is great since my old job is gone now . . . And don't really find any other jobs engaging other than BLM, while I like it I don't really have the skill to pilot it well enough so I think I go back to crafting / gathering

The combat is fine. I would give it a 6.5, maybe a 7 out of 10. It does what it needs to do but is nothing special compared to the combat in other MMOs.

I like the design of most encounters, and I feel that is what makes the gameplay feel fun for me.

Everybody will tell me Im wrong, but I think Playing a Healer is very fun and rewarding
I love White Mage. I like Scholar now after lv 86, Ast is interesting but think it does need work in a few areas. And it always LOOKS cool and fun, but I dont like playing Sage.

I like Paladin, but I think Tanks overall need more responsibilities, at least in Trails. Maybe more in Raids. I dont feel like Im doing enough to think Tanking is fun...which is funny because back in the day I had tank anxiety thinking Id have lots of responsibilities...but now I feel like I dont have hardly any.

DPSing is fine IMO. But of course some Classes arnt my favorite while others I love.

I like FFXIVs combat. But I wish I could be good enough for Current Savage when it happens, and be more able & Patient enough to do Ultimites.
But thats more of a ME problem then FFXIVs combat.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Everybody will tell me Im wrong, but I think Playing a Healer is very fun and rewarding
I love White Mage. I like Scholar now after lv 86, Ast is interesting but think it does need work in a few areas. And it always LOOKS cool and fun, but I dont like playing Sage.

I like Paladin, but I think Tanks overall need more responsibilities, at least in Trails. Maybe more in Raids. I dont feel like Im doing enough to think Tanking is fun...which is funny because back in the day I had tank anxiety thinking Id have lots of responsibilities...but now I feel like I dont have hardly any.

DPSing is fine IMO. But of course some Classes arnt my favorite while others I love.

I like FFXIVs combat. But I wish I could be good enough for Current Savage when it happens, and be more able & Patient enough to do Ultimites.
But thats more of a ME problem then FFXIVs combat.

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Can you explain why you like healing and find it rewarding in a way that doesn’t devolve into “it’s nice to have people rely on me”

I’m honestly not trying to sound rude here I’m just curious what you find rewarding about healing in its current form compared to older forms or healing in another game, the act of being a healer feels rewarding (it’s the only reason I still play them) but the design in this game feels absolutely horrid, wouldn’t having more to heal or doing a more complex damage application system make what already feels rewarding about healing even more rewarding

Idk I’m just kinda rambling here but I really can’t think of what specifically about current design healers feels more rewarding than say HW SCH other than just the act of healing in general feels rewarding no matter the application

I think if I would've started playing the game in Endwalker, I wouldn't be as harsh on the PvE job design as I am right now.
I would probably be far too busy learning about core basics, like double weaving, slidecasting, melee uptime, etc...

But since I've experienced the previous job design, the current PvE job design is so bland, soulless and sanitized to the point that it felt like I'm being served plain white bread when I was eating grilled cheese 4-5 years ago.

A stark contrast to the PvP job design. PvP felt like I was being fed steamed chicken breast for a long time, and then suddenly they decided to serve me Korean Chicken.

PvP job design is like hotpot full of flavor and meat and veggies and seafood and tofu, while PvE job design was just soup, bones and meat in Shadowbringers, but they took out the meat in Endwalker, and we now know they're going to take out the bones next expansion. They're gonna serve us hot water in 9.0, and then just plain tap water in 10.0, and people are gonna applaud the dev team for it, thinking it's the best stew they've ever had.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Can you explain why you like healing and find it rewarding in a way that doesn’t devolve into “it’s nice to have people rely on me”

I’m honestly not trying to sound rude here I’m just curious what you find rewarding about healing in its current form compared to older forms or healing in another game, the act of being a healer feels rewarding (it’s the only reason I still play them) but the design in this game feels absolutely horrid, wouldn’t having more to heal or doing a more complex damage application system make what already feels rewarding about healing even more rewarding

Idk I’m just kinda rambling here but I really can’t think of what specifically about current design healers feels more rewarding than say HW SCH other than just the act of healing in general feels rewarding no matter the application

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It has nothing to do with ego, and is more akin to, "I feel useful"
Best way I can put it atm because I cant think of a better phrase at the moment. Overall I feel more satisfaction keeping people alive then doing Big-D-DPS.

I feel healing is rewarding in each Expansion. I dont feel any less useful or like my role has gotten any worse....at least not as a White Mage main. Its kind of like Black Mage imo, it always stayed good. Probly the worse thing that happened to me is I lost Aero 3
Thats your opinion (and others opinion) but I just dont feel that way. I like healing in this game. Id rather play healer then play a Tank or a DPS in this game.
Other games are other games, Im playing FFXIV, so I dont account for how it works in other games.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

It has nothing to do with ego, and is more akin to, "I feel useful"
Best way I can put it atm because I cant think of a better phrase at the moment. Overall I feel more satisfaction keeping people alive then doing Big-D-DPS.

I feel healing is rewarding in each Expansion. I dont feel any less useful or like my role has gotten any worse....at least not as a White Mage main. Its kind of like Black Mage imo, it always stayed good. Probly the worse thing that happened to me is I lost Aero 3
Thats your opinion (and others opinion) but I just dont feel that way. I like healing in this game. Id rather play healer then play a Tank or a DPS in this game.
Other games are other games, Im playing FFXIV, so I dont account for how it works in other games.

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So essentially your opinion boils down to “I like the act of healing and I don’t really care how badly it’s designed”

About what I expected, my quest to find someone who can actually explain to me why ShB healing is actually well designed continues

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Originally Posted by WhiteWitch

Healing to me was the most fun in TERA before it finally died. There was a mystic and a priest, one buffed and one was a healer. They complemented each other well. And the healing was fun too, like you had a lock-on target over the screen that highlighted your allies when you move the camera.

In ffxiv healing does not feel necessary once you are so far over the gear score for content. At a casual level, they could make the attacks in trials and dungeons hit harder.
In savage, I don't see a point in adding 8 dps skills to busy healers like scholar or astro. I see that you play it too, it would be annoying to have to keep up with dps rotations and also pre-shield raidwides while scurrying around like a rat.

They could just re-do healer gameplay like the pvp modes. Would people be satisfied then?

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HW SCH was exactly that, you juggled 6 DOT’s alongside more meaningful fairy management than “it’s a glorified embrace and has some totem healing” and it felt damn good, pls do give me more complex DPS rotations, AST is fine because it’s cards are a form of DPS rotation but yes give me far far more on SCH

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

So essentially your opinion boils down to “I like the act of healing and I don’t really care how badly it’s designed”

About what I expected, my quest to find someone who can actually explain to me why ShB healing is actually well designed continues

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I never argued about if its design is good or not. Not even my point
My entire point was I personally Like Healing in this game. I find it fun.

You were doomed to be disappointed from the start if you were looking for a deep analytical explanation XD

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Originally Posted by Curemefi

What makes a good combat? Do you think FFXIV has good combat?

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Still good and satisfying depending on your role. Juggling CDs and figuring out a good rotation for each encounter is nice, and game engine complaints aside, I love raiding in this game. There's something to keep in mind, 50% of the combat is the enemies we face, and raids in XIV are always fun to figure out.

Not to repeat what's been said itt, I want to point out that job design is getting worse and worse because SE's approach since 5.0 has been dreadful. From my point of view, it feels like they see an issue with XIVs combat, and instead of even attempting to address it, iterate on it or improve it, they scrap it and go next. When there's something unique about a job like SCH dealing damage through DoTs, differently shaped AOEs, BRD getting some unorthodox proc spam mages ballad phases or SAM having a different damage curve with most of it being loaded in Iaijutsus, they'd rather hammer all of it down into something easier to balance rather than even trying to preserve that uniqueness. What even is the point of having different jobs?
It kinda feels like the 4 guys in charge of combat design are burnt out and just wanna make things as easy as possible for themselves going forward instead of attempting to actually make combat fun. Or that they're too hyperfocused on an inachievable standard of balancing and want all the complexity of XIVs combat to stem from an arbitrary 2mins burst window.
My expectations for the future of job design have never been lower, to put it mildly.

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Originally Posted by Hezhi

What even is the point of having different jobs?
It kinda feels like the 4 guys in charge of combat design are burnt out and just wanna make things as easy as possible for themselves going forward instead of attempting to actually make combat fun. Or that they're too hyperfocused on an inachievable standard of balancing and want all the complexity of XIVs combat to stem from an arbitrary 2mins burst window.
My expectations for the future of job design have never been lower, to put it mildly.

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This is why I said "Why level two regen or shield healers if they have the same function?" "Why level all the tanks if they all have an aoe combo and a burst window?". It's like having 4 different fast-food cheeseburgers when they are all basically still a cheeseburger.

The combat system is what someone below the first post described as comfy, and that's what they are aiming for and have achieved.

Within the system, two things would be something I wish was changed before 2.0

1. The limit break system, I would have liked more utilization. If you have 2 lb bars, then you should be able to perform 2 lv.1 lb's. You could always put a resistance debuff to prevent spamming the two sam limit breaks. OR do not make the limit gauge completely deplete after using limit break. If you have 1.5 limit break bars and use a level 1 limit break then it would be nice to have that .5 remain.

2. I enjoy the glam's people have on. Just can't see them much in combat because you have to zoom so far out with your camera. I would have liked it more if the combat was tailored to allow us to zoom in more with our party so i can see some, not all, of the details people put into their glamours.

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Originally Posted by WhiteWitch

This is why I said "Why level two regen or shield healers if they have the same function?" "Why level all the tanks if they all have an aoe combo and a burst window?". It's like having 4 different fast-food cheeseburgers when they are all basically still a cheeseburger.

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Woah there..you telling me that McDonalds crapburger is as wonderful as the glorious Wendy's burger? ...that's it...there's no compromise to be had here. Imma head out. Taking Dave Thomas and the talented person(s) behind their twitter account with me. You're lucky In-N-Out isn't here! /cry

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

It has nothing to do with ego, and is more akin to, "I feel useful"
Best way I can put it atm because I cant think of a better phrase at the moment. Overall I feel more satisfaction keeping people alive then doing Big-D-DPS.

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The problem is that once you get more experience you realize you only feel useful, but you aren't actually as useful in reality. Pretty much any sprout blindly spamming Medica II can keep a group alive just fine. In certain content like lv90 dungeons you're barely needed and in Normal raids you're just surplus and your co-heal could do the job for both of you.

Keeping people alive is a joke, your group could easily replace you and the only way to be genuinely useful is to contribute high dps while keeping everyone alive. But since the developers have made sure most content has no dps check and meters are banned, no one cares if you did damage (or might even dislike you for it).

The more experience you have, the less rewarding healing is and the more pointless you realize it is.

I'm curious to see this be put into an experiment: to truly know if healing is that useless in dungeons. Basically I would like somebody to record them and their friends running a lv.90 dungeon or trial synced with no healer.

One where it's only the tank and 2 dps.
Another with a tank and 4 dps
And lastly one run with regular party make up.

Oh and to also have each run timed to see which party was the most efficient in clearing the content.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The problem is that once you get more experience you realize you only feel useful, but you aren't actually as useful in reality. Pretty much any sprout blindly spamming Medica II can keep a group alive just fine. In certain content like lv90 dungeons you're barely needed and in Normal raids you're just surplus and your co-heal could do the job for both of you.

Keeping people alive is a joke, your group could easily replace you and the only way to be genuinely useful is to contribute high dps while keeping everyone alive. But since the developers have made sure most content has no dps check and meters are banned, no one cares if you did damage (or might even dislike you for it).

The more experience you have, the less rewarding healing is and the more pointless you realize it is.

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You don't even need experience for that considering i was just leveling SMN/SCH (almost exlusively using SMN) to 90 on a character, decided to go through a few duty support dungeons as a scholar for a change, had a massive kit of healing spell that i never used since healing the party to full health was as easy as pressing a single button once, and even that usually went to overhealing since the enemies/bosses are never a threat if nobody facetanks mechanics on purpose. Even then the only reason it's a threat is the vulnerability stacks. Whatever Ronso could possibly be talking about is beyond me. I imagine it's more like "i feel useful as i watch netflix/some twitch streamer/youtube video on my second monitor".

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I'm curious to see this be put into an experiment: to truly know if healing is that useless in dungeons. Basically I would like somebody to record them and their friends running a lv.90 dungeon or trial synced with no healer.

One where it's only the tank and 2 dps.
Another with a tank and 4 dps
And lastly one run with regular party make up.

Oh and to also have each run timed to see which party was the most efficient in clearing the content.

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Take a look at FFlogs

I looked at stigma dreamscape (though all are roughly similar dead ends skews a little more strongly to healers in the top clears), of the top 50 fastest clears only 8 of them even had a healer yet all 4 tanks are represented (DRK even has some non RDM clears), raids is harder because it’s hard to find non standard clears of the panda normal raids but currently for all 4 bosses non standard comps hold a faster record than standard comps which I assume is trading out one healer and one tank to run 6 DPS so it does show how useless healers are regardless

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Take a look at FFlogs

I looked at stigma dreamscape (though all are roughly similar dead ends skews a little more strongly to healers in the top clears), of the top 50 fastest clears only 8 of them even had a healer yet all 4 tanks are represented (DRK even has some non RDM clears), raids is harder because it’s hard to find non standard clears of the panda normal raids but currently for all 4 bosses non standard comps hold a faster record than standard comps which I assume is trading out one healer and one tank to run 6 DPS so it does show how useless healers are regardless

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But if you're talking "top 50 fastest clears" tracked by sites designed to be used by people pushing the toughest content, you're not getting anything close to a representative sample of the playerbase. The typical FFXIV player is not anywhere close to the "top 50 fastest clears." I expect the top players to be able to do things that you're typical, casual player isn't going to even dream about. The result says absolutely nothing about the usefulness of things like healers to what is far and away the most common FFXIV player.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

But if you're talking "top 50 fastest clears" tracked by sites designed to be used by people pushing the toughest content, you're not getting anything close to a representative sample of the playerbase. The typical FFXIV player is not anywhere close to the "top 50 fastest clears." I expect the top players to be able to do things that you're typical, casual player isn't going to even dream about. The result says absolutely nothing about the usefulness of things like healers to what is far and away the most common FFXIV player.

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The guy wanted and example of people being able to completely invalidate healers and I provided one, you aren’t doing the dungeon faster by dumping off the tank, you aren’t going faster by dumping off the DPS but you certainly are going faster by dumping off the healer

The core point is that it shouldn’t even be possible not that it’s only something more accomplished people can, seriously while GNB and DRK need some finesse any DF party doesn’t with a WAR or PLD does not need a healer and assuming none of the DPS are huffing paint you will go faster than having the healer there

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The guy wanted and example of people being able to completely invalidate healers and I provided one, you aren’t doing the dungeon faster by dumping off the tank, you aren’t going faster by dumping off the DPS but you certainly are going faster by dumping off the healer

The core point is that it shouldn’t even be possible not that it’s only something more accomplished people can, seriously while GNB and DRK need some finesse any DF party doesn’t with a WAR or PLD does not need a healer and assuming none of the DPS are huffing paint you will go faster than having the healer there

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And i mean, you need so little healing a red mage would suffice in normal mode content.

I mean you want proof then here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBofKTvcCms Alzadalls Legacy done in 9:18.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hDqPG8ka8I Here is Smileton before patch 6.1.

It is very possible and more efficient to do so. The thing is most people are not good enough to do what they are doing basically between using potions and popping bloodbath arms length and the war ussing nascent flash and all that.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

But if you're talking "top 50 fastest clears" tracked by sites designed to be used by people pushing the toughest content, you're not getting anything close to a representative sample of the playerbase. The typical FFXIV player is not anywhere close to the "top 50 fastest clears." I expect the top players to be able to do things that you're typical, casual player isn't going to even dream about. The result says absolutely nothing about the usefulness of things like healers to what is far and away the most common FFXIV player.

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It honestly makes little difference until you go down to the depths of the sort of player who just sits in ground markers and afks. Eating the occasional avoidable aoe isn't a problem, keeping assize/star etc on cooldown takes care of that regardless. Modern dungeon bosses are literal med and cooldown breaks at this point and the trash only really gets nasty if you run out of cooldowns or simply never pop them in the first place.

If the healer is contributing damage or 'le gasp', you ditch them and get another DPS, you're not going to run out of cooldowns as the videos above attest to.

I would describe the combat as very rigid. There is just one rotation for each job that you must follow without deviation. The only difference between dungeon bosses and Savage is the dance you have to learn to avoid instant kill mechanics, what you are doing with your abilities is exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I would describe the combat as very rigid. There is just one rotation for each job that you must follow without deviation. The only difference between dungeon bosses and Savage is the dance you have to learn to avoid instant kill mechanics, what you are doing with your abilities is exactly the same.

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We did use to have "less" rigid rotations before. There was still a meta, an optimal way of doing things and a map to press buttons to minmax the damage you dealt. But there was a bit of freedom in it. It wasn't a clear "you press this button on cooldown or choose to delay it a bit because of downtime", there were things that you did on specific windows that would vary given the boss and the party you had.
The game also had cross-class skills that required us to level up other jobs to access, but ultimately everyone agreed that there were only a handful of skills to take, and all the rest was forgettable.
Also, not every class was designed the same way. The idea of "buff windows lining up" was still rudimentary, as some buffs and rotations did line up, but some were just lining up once in a blue moon.
Not to mention how some classes were clearly better designed for content than others. This gave the illusion of variety and choice, but if you only planned on playing one job out of a role because it was the one you clicked with the most, you could have very well been kicked out simply because you didn't fit or would under perform. Examples included PLD who didn't resist magic damage. DRK (only seen it happen once tho) in the rare event that the fight was more on the physical side than magic. And Monk for some odd reason.
And that's without counting staples such as "we need a Bard for Foe Requiem", "we need Ninja for Trick Attack", "we need the Warrior to not overwrite the Ninja's debuff" or "we need a Dragoon to boost physical ranged DPS's damage".
All this had the bad effect of not being easy to balance since it was so inconsistent, and that's why they've kept streamlining ever since.

The current battle system is a lot smoother, a lot more straightforward, optimization isn't as bonkers as it used to be and thus there's a level of consistency that the devs are comfortable with.
However, the rigidness of the rotation brings up really awkward issues. Bard and Summoner, for example, are really reliant on having near-full uptime, and they get hampered whenever the boss decides to nope out. They can't adjust for downtime as easily as other classes, so it can really mess them up.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The problem is that once you get more experience you realize you only feel useful, but you aren't actually as useful in reality. Pretty much any sprout blindly spamming Medica II can keep a group alive just fine. In certain content like lv90 dungeons you're barely needed and in Normal raids you're just surplus and your co-heal could do the job for both of you.

Keeping people alive is a joke, your group could easily replace you and the only way to be genuinely useful is to contribute high dps while keeping everyone alive. But since the developers have made sure most content has no dps check and meters are banned, no one cares if you did damage (or might even dislike you for it).

The more experience you have, the less rewarding healing is and the more pointless you realize it is.

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This is everybody else's experience, not mine. I still DPS, Im not just standing Idly by and just topping off HP all day.
Only time I feel like Im not contributing, is in a Dungeon and if there is a Warrior; who is overturned to high heck with its self sustain rending my healing Mostly m00t. But I dont run with Warriors in every piece of content, so my role isn't completely nullified.

Also...c'mon man, Medica 2 isn't THAT great lol

It's alright. Lost a lot of RPG elements and the engagement factor over the years IMO, what with the continuous simplification and enforcing the 2-minute buff line ups, but it's okay. If it sounds unbelivable, look up how there used to be 3 ways to build SAM based on SKS and so on, for example, or how healers/bards/etc had actual Final Fantasy buffs, debuffs, and such things. It feels more like an action tab targeting system now days.

To be fair, fight design is where FFXIV has always shined but I wish we could get some of the old soul back instead of this lingering obsession to reduce any and all ways someone might fail.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

I mean you want proof then here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBofKTvcCms Alzadalls Legacy done in 9:18.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hDqPG8ka8I Here is Smileton before patch 6.1.

It is very possible and more efficient to do so. The thing is most people are not good enough to do what they are doing basically between using potions and popping bloodbath arms length and the war ussing nascent flash and all that.

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All this proves to me that Warriors are waaaay too OP with their self-healing. I want to see this same efficiency done with other tanks such as Gunbreaker, Dark Knight and Paladin. But yeah this is what I was fearing the most, I realize its completely possible to complete content without healers.....but you need a Warrior to make sure it's doable right? (at least doable in terms of efficiency)

This means the devs really need to nerf them. And I'm saying this as a casual Warrior main.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

All this proves to me that Warriors are waaaay too OP with their self-healing. I want to see this same efficiency done with other tanks such as Gunbreaker, Dark Knight and Paladin. But yeah this is what I was fearing the most, I realize its completely possible to complete content without healers.....but you need a Warrior to make sure it's doable right? (at least doable in terms of efficiency)

This means the devs really need to nerf them. And I'm saying this as a casual Warrior main.

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No if you check the top 50 PLD and GNB are also strongly represented, DRK generally needs a RDM as a pseudo healer but it’s still plenty possible

All the tanks are just too strong/the damage too low, the expert dungeons also suffer from the problem of dungeons are faster the more you can pull, if there were no walls between bosses and you could quad pull then it would likely be impossible to do a speed pull without healers (though you could still easily do two double pulls like currently)

Tank self sustain across the board is just cracked compared to the outgoing damage

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Its honestly a bit on the shallow side and you can feel the devs hit the ceiling of whats possible in it a while ago.

Utility skills are not valued, Damage is all that matters and theres basically no room for customization or player expression. The Balance this game achieved is boring. Its the result of extreme homogenization and more or less forcing every job to do the same thing.

Systems have been changed/removed specifically to make this so, and to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing the game be made less balanced if it meant that jobs didn't amount solely to pressing the same buttons in the exact same order forever.

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You pretty much hit the nail on the head with the bolded bit.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

Whatever Ronso could possibly be talking about is beyond me. I imagine it's more like "i feel useful as i watch netflix/some twitch streamer/youtube video on my second monitor".

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LoL, didnt think the "I feel useful" line would get so much focus, considering I only said it as a Quick phrase because I couldnt think of better wording at the time.
If you only ever had to press one healing spell and never used anything else, sounds like you had a good Warrior, because they have insane self-sustain. Otherwise, there is no way you were over-healing with just 1 spell and nothing was ever a threat. Also was this your experience in Raids and Trials as well, or is this just specifically Dungeons?

Only time I ever put up a Video is the Lv50 MSQ Roulette.
If you get bored, Im sorry to hear that.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

LoL, didnt think the "I feel useful" line would get so much focus, considering I only said it as a Quick phrase because I couldnt think of better wording at the time.
If you only ever had to press one healing spell and never used anything else, sounds like you had a good Warrior, because they have insane self-sustain. Otherwise, there is no way you were over-healing with just 1 spell and nothing was ever a threat. Also was this your experience in Raids and Trials as well, or is this just specifically Dungeons?

Only time I ever put up a Video is the Lv50 MSQ Roulette.
If you get bored, Im sorry to hear that.

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I mean play SGE and 90% of your healing can be done with kardia and kerachole even without a WAR, healing with like 1 spell isn’t that hard or rare

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean play SGE and 90% of your healing can be done with kardia and kerachole even without a WAR, healing with like 1 spell isn’t that hard or rare

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You arnt gonna be constantly over-healing through the run though unless you got a decent Warrior in a Dungeon run.
Or unless you are running old easy content that isnt demanding.
IDK, maybe Im just doing it wrong if Im putting in some effort while everybody else can just hit 1 spell and be good for the whole dungeon or whatever content.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

You arnt gonna be constantly over-healing through the run though unless you got a decent Warrior in a Dungeon run.
Or unless you are running old easy content that isnt demanding.
IDK, maybe Im just doing it wrong if Im putting in some effort while everybody else can just hit 1 spell and be good for the whole dungeon or whatever content.

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If we're talking strictly bosses then yes I can hit 1 spell and be done. Exaltation on the Tank for busters because they literally come every minute and it covers it. Earthly Star or Celestial Opposition for AOE damage.

Damage is too infrequent on bosses to prove much of a challenge outside of a handful of fights. I find it absurd that two pack trash mobs make my cycle through my cool downs more than bosses.

Now I'll grant you, things like this only happen if my party doesn't stand in the bad often or even on occasion... but I don't have bad parties often enough for me to think "yeah 2 charges of Celestial Intersection and Essential Dignity are necessary".

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I'm curious to see this be put into an experiment: to truly know if healing is that useless in dungeons. Basically I would like somebody to record them and their friends running a lv.90 dungeon or trial synced with no healer.

One where it's only the tank and 2 dps.
Another with a tank and 4 dps
And lastly one run with regular party make up.

Oh and to also have each run timed to see which party was the most efficient in clearing the content.

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Your party compositions for a 4man dungeon seem a bit odd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

You arnt gonna be constantly over-healing through the run though unless you got a decent Warrior in a Dungeon run.
Or unless you are running old easy content that isnt demanding.
IDK, maybe Im just doing it wrong if Im putting in some effort while everybody else can just hit 1 spell and be good for the whole dungeon or whatever content.

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Current dungeon boss tank busters hit on average around 40-50k on a non tank job completely unmitigated if my memory serves correctly.

On a tank with mitigation such as Benison? You might be seeing sub 10k, a quick flip through my logs sees an average of 10-15k.

If these hits were frequent, that'd be fine but they aren't. Stigma 4 does literally 1 tank buster in ~3 minutes. IMHO these sort of hits should be untelegraphed and coming in every 30 seconds at the least.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

c'mon man, Medica 2 isn't THAT great lol

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Cure 2 on the whole party for the same MP cost as Cure 2 is pretty good, actually.

Design has been dead since heavensward or stormblood for most jobs. Excluding shadowbringers samurai and the dev’s favourite black mage, there’s not many that have been remotely close to their best incarnations in years. Homogenisation has all but killed identity, and for what?

If you did ARR content before the Trust updates, you can definitely feel it. Sure, some of the dungeons benefit from a touch more engaging design (I'm looking at you, Praetorium bosses that used to be training dummies). But when I go into any of the redesigned dungeons with fresh eyes, it's pretty telling when my brain script is correct 90% of the time.

Let's see, we're pulling a boss. I wonder if it...yep, there's an unavoidable roomwide hit that does about half of everyone's HP approximately 10-15 seconds into the pull. The standard post-Stormblood "healer, use your oGCD AOE heal here!" move. Let's see then there's...yep, a tankbuster that does about 1/4 of the tank's health. Next is...oh yeah, boss auto teleports into the center of the arena, then begins channeling some exhaustingly long cast where it completely stops outgoing damage, then puts really obvious tells on the floor, and if it's REALLY complicated it'll cover part of the floor, then another slightly overlapping part, and you'll have to stand in the second orange indicator, then move to where the first one just exploded.

If you haven't been paying attention before, just run this script in your head when you pull a boss. Almost every. Single. Dungeon. Boss. in this game. Is like this. And people wonder why veteran healers say they can easy peasy oGCD heal the brand new "expert" dungeon when a patch drops. It's because the boss mechanics are VERY predictably patterned, even if the precise shapes of the AOE markers are different.