Glamours: Re-work the entire system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garten

Honestly i would like at least another couple of plates.. those would be very welcomed >_<

---

Having a few for the Crafter/Gatherer jobs would be great as well.

+1 support after seeing the recent new gear designs again...

There are more healers than White Mage that do not fit the classical dress robe look and more casters that also do not fit the typical black mage robes...
Even within the role there's just so many restrictions, it has to go

"muh immersion" stopped being a valid reason the moment those costumes and bikinis were a thing just accept that fact...

At this point I'm convinced they can't lift the restrictions due to spaghetti code, yet again...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

Considering the number of times they tell us some feature or another isn't technically possible due to the way the game is coded, only for them to add the feature later anyway, I have absolutely zero trust for it to be true in this instance.

---

Receipts, please. I expect at least three examples, because 'a number of times' doesn't mean a thing otherwise. You could have used "once or twice" or "I distinctly remember that one time when ...".

If you don't know what a receipt is, I mean "show me a feature that showed up that was previously decreed "technically not possible" in this game by the developers. And no, the minimal Hrothgar/Vierra headgear is "it will take a lot of time to do it", not "technically impossible". Adding housing units by increasing the number of wards was (and still is) a hardware purchase problem, not "technically impossible".

Most of the time SE says "we will look into it" and then you don't hear about it again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

They know glamour has issues, and no, they've already stated repeatedly countless times in the past that a WoW style system is simply out of the question due to technical problems with how the game is coded and handles gear appearence. [SNIP].

---

Not to butcher your quote, but Yoshi has said this on almost everything he just doesn't want to sacrifice resources to do; housing, housing wards, glamour expansion, male viera, female hrothgar, viera / hrothgar hair, I think he said something similar about flying in 1.x areas... I could be wrong. Those are just a few that come to mind.

I'm not trying to nail Yoshi to the wall or anything, he's an extremely busy guy producing 2 MAJOR FF titles - really the only ones that are relevant present day. The man has a lot on his shoulders. However, trying to shutdown someone for pointing out a very obvious issue in the game as if it could never be done due to Yoshi saying it's too much work / bad code / game can't do it / etc, isn't true.

It is possible. They can do it, and we should absolutely keep asking for it. The latest comment I saw Yoshi saying on this was I think the last Q&A. Someone asked Yoshi about copying WoW's glamour dresser, and he painfully said something like it pains him to take that question, please don't ask it (jokingly); however, he knows the community wants it but it will take a lot of work.

Either way, just b/c Yoshi says something is impossible, doesn't mean it's impossible. I don't know if it sarcasm / joking / him suffering under the strain of his genius is lost in translation, but multiple times he has said this and literally the next patch he has done it. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

Receipts, please. I expect at least three examples, because 'a number of times' doesn't mean a thing otherwise. You could have used "once or twice" or "I distinctly remember that one time when ...".

If you don't know what a receipt is, I mean "show me a feature that showed up that was previously decreed "technically not possible" in this game by the developers. And no, the minimal Hrothgar/Vierra headgear is "it will take a lot of time to do it", not "technically impossible". Adding housing units by increasing the number of wards was (and still is) a hardware purchase problem, not "technically impossible".

Most of the time SE says "we will look into it" and then you don't hear about it again.

---

The Good Memory plugin that was implemented after they said it was impossible to do.

The 6.0 queue issues that they blamed on people's network connections until someone on Reddit found the server was dropping the ball.

Everything to do with Hrothgar heads and ears. Good example of this when they released new hairstyles in 6.1 with no ears, modders fixed it in a couple hours of release easy, and now they ears are back in 6.2.

Whenever he's asked about latency issues when it comes to inputs on jobs like MCH it gets brushed off as a network problem and yet modders can fix it with ease.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Not to butcher your quote, but Yoshi has said this on almost everything he just doesn't want to sacrifice resources to do; housing, housing wards, glamour expansion, male viera, female hrothgar, viera / hrothgar hair, I think he said something similar about flying in 1.x areas... I could be wrong. Those are just a few that come to mind.

I'm not trying to nail Yoshi to the wall or anything, he's an extremely busy guy producing 2 MAJOR FF titles - really the only ones that are relevant present day. The man has a lot on his shoulders. However, trying to shutdown someone for pointing out a very obvious issue in the game as if it could never be done due to Yoshi saying it's too much work / bad code / game can't do it / etc, isn't true.

It is possible. They can do it, and we should absolutely keep asking for it. The latest comment I saw Yoshi saying on this was I think the last Q&A. Someone asked Yoshi about copying WoW's glamour dresser, and he painfully said something like it pains him to take that question, please don't ask it (jokingly); however, he knows the community wants it but it will take a lot of work.

Either way, just b/c Yoshi says something is impossible, doesn't mean it's impossible. I don't know if it sarcasm / joking / him suffering under the strain of his genius is lost in translation, but multiple times he has said this and literally the next patch he has done it. :)

---

If he just said yes to everything, he would definitely get himself fired or lose people on the team. Expectations need to be managed somehow. I think this is one of those cases where it's more accurate that it's not something they want to get into. Other stuff like hrothgar and viera is just going to take some time and they've been getting around to it. This is a potential revision to a core system in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

Receipts, please. I expect at least three examples, because 'a number of times' doesn't mean a thing otherwise. You could have used "once or twice" or "I distinctly remember that one time when ...".

If you don't know what a receipt is, I mean "show me a feature that showed up that was previously decreed "technically not possible" in this game by the developers. And no, the minimal Hrothgar/Vierra headgear is "it will take a lot of time to do it", not "technically impossible". Adding housing units by increasing the number of wards was (and still is) a hardware purchase problem, not "technically impossible".

Most of the time SE says "we will look into it" and then you don't hear about it again.

---

Not the person you asked, but:

Minions, pets, and companions used to not be able to be out at the same time, this was changed in 4.X after we had been told for years it was impossible.

Glamour plates can now be changed in all sanctuaries, this was originally said to be impossible upon their implementation.

We can now have more than one aquarium per house; rather than the arbitrary limits they launched with, this too was said to be impossible.

Furniture limits per house size were raised in 4.X and this too was originally said to be impossible.

Searching for items via partial keywords on the marketboard was said to be impossible in 2.X and 3.0 as they were afraid too many people using partial search would crash the servers.

Item search, when originally requested was a feature that was said to be impossible, again because they feared too many people using it at once would crash the servers.

Adding extra currencies to the currency window was something that from the launch of 2.0 they stressed would be impossible to do, and yet look where we are.

Expanding our inventory was once said to be "impossible" as well and they've done it, twice.

I've been playing since beta, and there are so many things that they have claimed are/were impossible that they've since dialed back on and done that its almost comical. I've come to the realization that impossible is their key word for "we've looked into it and with our current scheduling and resources we literally can't do it." So the person you replied to is right. No one should ever take any of these claims seriously and we absolutely should not trust when something is said to be "impossible."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

The Good Memory plugin that was implemented after they said it was impossible to do.

---

The developers didn't write the plugin, and it can't be used by anyone playing from a console.

Quote:

---

The 6.0 queue issues that they blamed on people's network connections until someone on Reddit found the server was dropping the ball.

---

So, what was the 'impossible to do' bit? And what new feature did they come up with? This sounds like a bug fix, not a new feature.

Quote:

---

Everything to do with Hrothgar heads and ears. Good example of this when they released new hairstyles in 6.1 with no ears, modders fixed it in a couple hours of release easy, and now they ears are back in 6.2.

---

Please present any quote that said ears were "impossible to do" for the new hairstyles. Modders can do all sorts of things on PCs that developers cannot do. Not so much on the PS4 though. Sounds more like a bug fix than a new feature.

Quote:

---

Whenever he's asked about latency issues when it comes to inputs on jobs like MCH it gets brushed off as a network problem and yet modders can fix it with ease.

---

So, basically, you've listed a number of technical issues and exactly zero 'features' that were implemented. What modders can, or cannot, do has no bearing on the actual game code, written to run across multiple platforms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

The developers didn't write the plugin, and it can't be used by anyone playing from a console.

---

I think what they meant was that the developers initially said was such a thing was impossible (with modders then proving that it wasn't,) only for Square to eventually make their own native implementation. Console users now are able to have this same "impossible" thing of having a checkmark over a minion item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Not the person you asked, but:

Minions, pets, and companions used to not be able to be out at the same time, this was changed in 4.X after we had been told for years it was impossible.

Glamour plates can now be changed in all sanctuaries, this was originally said to be impossible upon their implementation.

We can now have more than one aquarium per house; rather than the arbitrary limits they launched with, this too was said to be impossible.

Furniture limits per house size were raised in 4.X and this too was originally said to be impossible.

Searching for items via partial keywords on the marketboard was said to be impossible in 2.X and 3.0 as they were afraid too many people using partial search would crash the servers.

Item search, when originally requested was a feature that was said to be impossible, again because they feared too many people using it at once would crash the servers.

Adding extra currencies to the currency window was something that from the launch of 2.0 they stressed would be impossible to do, and yet look where we are.

Expanding our inventory was once said to be "impossible" as well and they've done it, twice.

I've been playing since beta, and there are so many things that they have claimed are/were impossible that they've since dialed back on and done that its almost comical. I've come to the realization that impossible is their key word for "we've looked into it and with our current scheduling and resources we literally can't do it." So the person you replied to is right. No one should ever take any of these claims seriously and we absolutely should not trust when something is said to be "impossible."

---

This right here.

There are a number of posters on this forums that rebuke many suggestion threads, especially on glamour related threads by playing a complacent devil's advocate with reasons such as sphagetti code not allowing or pointing the obvious "X is like that because of technical reasons".

Like, hello? There's no such thing as code that can't be improved or rewritten. There's no developer mindset that is not prone to be changed. YP might say something and 1 year later change his mind, much like it happened before. I wouldn't even be surprised if in 7.0 they would think about a way to bring Kaiten back with a compromise that would appeal both the player desire for it and their design goals.

Agreed with OP of this thread. The glamour system is god-awful and no amount of white knighting excuses on this forum is going to ever cut it. Fix the system. Free the glam!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Not the person you asked, but:

Minions, pets, and companions used to not be able to be out at the same time, this was changed in 4.X after we had been told for years it was impossible.

Glamour plates can now be changed in all sanctuaries, this was originally said to be impossible upon their implementation.

We can now have more than one aquarium per house; rather than the arbitrary limits they launched with, this too was said to be impossible.

Furniture limits per house size were raised in 4.X and this too was originally said to be impossible.

Searching for items via partial keywords on the marketboard was said to be impossible in 2.X and 3.0 as they were afraid too many people using partial search would crash the servers.

Item search, when originally requested was a feature that was said to be impossible, again because they feared too many people using it at once would crash the servers.

Adding extra currencies to the currency window was something that from the launch of 2.0 they stressed would be impossible to do, and yet look where we are.

Expanding our inventory was once said to be "impossible" as well and they've done it, twice.

I've been playing since beta, and there are so many things that they have claimed are/were impossible that they've since dialed back on and done that its almost comical. I've come to the realization that impossible is their key word for "we've looked into it and with our current scheduling and resources we literally can't do it." So the person you replied to is right. No one should ever take any of these claims seriously and we absolutely should not trust when something is said to be "impossible."

---

Thank you for answering it better then I was able to!

The current system is horrible and doesn't reach the standard even free-to-play MMOs are held to. They keep claiming things to be impossible and lots of Square defenders will instantly mention "technical debt" as a reason for missing features. The truth is that they have had over a decade to make these basic things work and havent.
The fact that they're doubling the glamour dresser space (and acting as if that's a gift directly from God to us peasants) just means that no, we're literally never getting a half decent glamour system. They're investing more resources in the bad system so why scrap that now.

Can you even bring another multi-job MMO into the argument?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Can you even bring another multi-job MMO into the argument?

---

The last one I played was the original Secret World, which incidentally had an interesing way of dealing with the cosmetic side. What your outfit looked like and your actual power were completely separate. They actually equipped in separate slots, so there was never any conflict on who could wear what glams. It was amazing.

It is more of a database issue than a coding issue, what most people don't understand is that the moment you create a char, the database needs to remember everything about your WoL, in this case, every item in your inventory, Mirage plate and dresser, yes it also counts for empty spaces in those. That takes up a lot of space, and that if we ignore everything else that is not related to glams about your WoL. Anyway, my point is that you need to load those when you get in-game and any addition to it would just make that time slower, in fact since 6,1, I do feel a slower loading speed, especially while login in in-game.

The only way to fix that while not slower database-server communication would be to remake the whole system, or rework it heavily, but that take lots of time and effort + if you did any work with a database, you know screwing up is not an option, even if you got back up data.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magikazam

It is more of a database issue than a coding issue, what most people don't understand is that the moment you create a char, the database needs to remember everything about your WoL, in this case, every item in your inventory, Mirage plate and dresser, yes it also counts for empty spaces in those. That takes up a lot of space, and that if we ignore everything else that is not related to glams about your WoL. Anyway, my point is that you need to load those when you get in-game and any addition to it would just make that time slower, in fact since 6,1, I do feel a slower loading speed, especially while login in in-game.

The only way to fix that while not slower database-server communication would be to remake the whole system, or rework it heavily, but that take lots of time and effort + if you did any work with a database, you know screwing up is not an option, even if you got back up data.

---

Every other MMO works the same way. They can do it, SE can too. They've had years to do it and just haven't seen it as even a remote priority.

Frankly, everyone here should be disappointed in the system. It makes FFXIV look bad. They're the only major MMO at this point that doesn't have a proper glamour/transmog/whatever style system.

Imagine if you had to keep minions and mounts in your inventory indefinitely to use them, and then to solve that problem 6 years later they give you a box to keep them in that only holds about half what the game has to collect

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arzalis

Every other MMO works the same way. They can do it, SE can too. They've had years to do it and just haven't seen it as even a remote priority.

Frankly, everyone here should be disappointed in the system. It makes FFXIV look bad. They're the only major MMO at this point that doesn't have a proper glamour/transmog/whatever style system.

---

WoW doesn't work as you describe, the best way I could put it in FFXIV term is that when you get a new armor, if it can be used as a glam, it gets saved like an achievement in your dresser, BUT you need to go in your inn anytime you want to switch mirage plate.

WoW technically make it so you have a single mirage plate linked to your char at once, which saves 19 plates of data per char compared to FFXIV. The reason WoW can do that and FFXIV can't it just cause WoW made the system correctly in an efficient manner in the first place while FXIV didn't.

Im not trying to defend FFXIV here, I would prefer a better glam system that didn't force me to waste 10 inventory slot cause I love flashy katana, all im saying is that changing a system like this is harder and way differant to other MMO who just made good lasting system in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lihtleita

Imagine if you had to keep minions and mounts in your inventory indefinitely to use them, and then to solve that problem 6 years later they give you a box to keep them in that only holds about half what the game has to collect

---

oh my god i'd completely forgotten that that's how Guildwars 1 minions worked x_x

500 of those slots are already used for alliance raid gear.

It really isn't enough with just 800.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magikazam

WoW doesn't work as you describe, the best way I could put it in FFXIV term is that when you get a new armor, if it can be used as a glam, it gets saved like an achievement in your dresser, BUT you need to go in your inn anytime you want to switch mirage plate.

WoW technically make it so you have a single mirage plate linked to your char at once, which saves 19 plates of data per char compared to FFXIV. The reason WoW can do that and FFXIV can't it just cause WoW made the system correctly in an efficient manner in the first place while FXIV didn't.

Im not trying to defend FFXIV here, I would prefer a better glam system that didn't force me to waste 10 inventory slot cause I love flashy katana, all im saying is that changing a system like this is harder and way differant to other MMO who just made good lasting system in the first place.

---

Yeah...WoW has a million and one problems, but they (Blizzard) built the game to last at a core level. They also upgrade the game's engine with every expansion, which helps. FF XIV's current technological trajectory is going to prove unsustainable sooner rather than later if they (SE) don't wise up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

I think what they meant was that the developers initially said was such a thing was impossible (with modders then proving that it wasn't,) only for Square to eventually make their own native implementation. Console users now are able to have this same "impossible" thing of having a checkmark over a minion item.

---

The closest words in Japanese for "Impossible" are 無理 (unreasonable), 不可能 (improbable, impossibility), and ありえない (not possible). They all get translated into English as "impossible".

The problem is that the developers of this game speak Japanese and the players on the North American forums generally do not. I'd have to see the original untranslated comment in order to determine context. I have no idea in which context such words were read. I do know that the developers are loath to comment on anything specific with regard to what can, or can't, be done given the current engine. I suspect that the actual translation was more like "we can't do this now" with an implied "we might look into it".

Anything is 'possible' from a modders point of view, including a mod playing the game rather than the player actually pushing buttons on PC. Just because it is possible in a mod, should the developers work to add that feature to the game? Should we praise all modders for "doing the impossible" at this point, given that mods are what allow bots to function in-game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

500 of those slots are already used for alliance raid gear.

It really isn't enough with just 800.

---

Just watch how people will come up with excuses how even if you've done a certain alliance raid a hundred times, you don't deserve to have the gear permanently unlocked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magikazam

WoW doesn't work as you describe, the best way I could put it in FFXIV term is that when you get a new armor, if it can be used as a glam, it gets saved like an achievement in your dresser, BUT you need to go in your inn anytime you want to switch mirage plate.

WoW technically make it so you have a single mirage plate linked to your char at once, which saves 19 plates of data per char compared to FFXIV. The reason WoW can do that and FFXIV can't it just cause WoW made the system correctly in an efficient manner in the first place while FXIV didn't.

Im not trying to defend FFXIV here, I would prefer a better glam system that didn't force me to waste 10 inventory slot cause I love flashy katana, all im saying is that changing a system like this is harder and way differant to other MMO who just made good lasting system in the first place.

---

Oh, I understand that. But the responsibility is still on SE to fix it.

They've had years to do so and instead just keep kicking the can down the road by expanding the dresser once every xpac.

They don't even care enough to allow you to safely store and retrieve mogstation items. That part in particular just isn't okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

The closest words in Japanese for "Impossible" are 無理 (unreasonable), 不可能 (improbable, impossibility), and ありえない (not possible). They all get translated into English as "impossible".

The problem is that the developers of this game speak Japanese and the players on the North American forums generally do not. I'd have to see the original untranslated comment in order to determine context. I have no idea in which context such words were read. I do know that the developers are loath to comment on anything specific with regard to what can, or can't, be done given the current engine. I suspect that the actual translation was more like "we can't do this now" with an implied "we might look into it".

Anything is 'possible' from a modders point of view, including a mod playing the game rather than the player actually pushing buttons on PC. Just because it is possible in a mod, should the developers work to add that feature to the game? Should we praise all modders for "doing the impossible" at this point, given that mods are what allow bots to function in-game?

---

If that's the case, then I can give the benefit of the doubt in regards to the devs here, but then it's up to the translators to properly get across that it isn't "impossible". More often than not it ends up coming across as "we can't do this at all" vs "we won't now" or "it's not worth it". Square at the end of the day needs to be better at communicating to us about these things over here.

As for the other comment on mods, I was only speaking in regards to the checkmark idea, I can agree that not everything that mods do should be implemented into the game. But otherwise it shouldn't be unfeasible to ask for things like having magic damage be properly telegraphed with the UI so that Dark Mind doesn't end up being a useless button, rather than having the UI team come up and say no because it'd require sending more data packets when that's something the client already knows and already can distinguish within the battle tab.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arzalis

Oh, I understand that. But the responsibility is still on SE to fix it.

They've had years to do so and instead just keep kicking the can down the road by expanding the dresser once every xpac.

They don't even care enough to allow you to safely store and retrieve mogstation items. That part in particular just isn't okay.

---

Found this out the hard way, just expected the calamity salvager to refund bought mogstation outfits if they were discarded due to dresser space.

WRONG.

Gotta buy them again.

Terribly designed system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angellos

If 200 wasn't enough, and 400 isn't enough, 800 won't be enough:

---

If they keep doubling it every time we'll have several billion dresser slots by 2040.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Siddiax

Just watch how people will come up with excuses how even if you've done a certain alliance raid a hundred times, you don't deserve to have the gear permanently unlocked.

---

I think you'll find very few that actually think that way. I think it's crazy that anyone's holding all that gear, but I also think there should be a vendor for said gear past a certain point, but folks wanna skip that idea. :rolleyes:

All I know is that I would greatly appreciate having the ability to glamour any armor on any job I want. I wouldn't mind a few restrictions, like artifact armor, etc. As a SAM main, sharing gear with MNK, whose aesthetics is very different from SAM, it makes for difficult glamouring since I don't particularly like the sleeveless MNK look they like to push (at least not on SAM.)

I have to re-learn the glamour system every time I try to add something to it. It's so clumsy that I have maybe three glamours saved, and only use one regularly.

We're begging you to rework the whole thing. Please

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angellos

EDIT: If you really want to make the playerbase happy, take away role restrictions on gear. Once a piece of gear goes into the collection, ANY class can use the gear. The only restrictions that should remain are for racial gear, weapons, and artifact gear. Everything else should turn into a level 1, Any Class glamour item. So what if your tank wants to wear a dress: I already have to stare at naked Roegadyn wearing a Chocobo head while they tank.

---

Do you realize how much more options a regular player will have without having to invest a fortune into mog station sets? SE won't ever do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

They know glamour has issues, and no, they've already stated repeatedly countless times in the past that a WoW style system is simply out of the question due to technical problems with how the game is coded and handles gear appearence. And they simply cannot "rework" the system easily without affecting the game's operation, the only way that could happen would be for the game as a whole to be completley redesigned and coded from the ground up, a "Version 2-3.0" if you will.

As for glamour restrictions, that's a whole different subject and is mostly a design choice. Yoshi has particular ideas how he wants classes and Jobs to look like, so he has stuck to the gear restrictions ever since (and your "BLM wearing plate armour" arguement is somewhat irrelevant anyway as there is already some plate armour glamour choices available for mages like BLM, to say nothing of that originally being something the late Gary Gygax of Dungeons and Dragons fame established - mages can't wear heavy armour that would intefere with their ability to concentrate, healers can't wield bladed weaponry that would draw blood etc, and SE adopted. The very first FF game was virtually a Japanese homage to DnD after all, and FFXI outright stated those restrictions in it's manual, so FFXIV also having them is nothing new.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do support a lessening of generic gear restrictions, with 'Artifact Armour' (AF) and some other specific items remaining class locked, but it's a slippery slope, inevitably someone would then demand those items be lessened too, so... because of this 'all or nothing' attitude, I would rather SE not make any changes.

---

Nothing is out of the question.
If wow can update its engine so can ff14. You guys need to stop parroting their excuses, and ask for better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reimmi

Nothing is out of the question.
If wow can update its engine so can ff14. You guys need to stop parroting their excuses, and ask for better.

---

Something something costs.