More unneccesary nerfs to older content

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Originally Posted by Lauront

https://static1.thegamerimages.com/w...w=2000&dpr=1.5

Maybe this is what awaits us.

Come to think of it, they did speak of "perfecting" FF14 in one of the SHB fan fest interviews. :p

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I long for the sweet embrace of Ra-La to end this farce and free us all from our suffering.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

I long for the sweet embrace of Ra-La to end this farce and free us all from our suffering.

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In the end nothing really matters. Why even playing this game. Just end *walker* it already.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Straight from the preliminary patch notes

Players can now be revived in battle after being incapacitated by falling in the following duties:
The Navel
Amdapor Keep
Neverreap
The Navel (Hard)
The Navel (Extreme)
The Whorleater (Extreme)
Thok ast Thok (Hard)
Thok ast Thok (Extreme)
The Limitless Blue (Hard)
The Limitless Blue (Extreme)
Containment Bay S1TZ
Containment Bay S1TZ (Extreme)

The following adjustments have been made to the battle against Hraesvelgr in Sohr Khai:
The arena platforms will no longer be destroyed.
Damage inflicted by Cauterize has been increased.


Remember when Titan unreal came out and the devs decided to keep the perma death because it felt appropriate? So much for that now.
The change to the hraesvelgr fight will change the feel of the later parts of the fight in a negative way I feel. The entire point is as Hraesvelgr ramps up you have less room to manoeuvre to the point its everyone on one platform and your unskilled new players would be racing to the finish before he did another akh rhai


The Stone Vigil
The content of the battle with Koshchei has been adjusted.
The difficulty of certain mechanics has been eased during the battle with Isgebind.

Stone vigil was a tutorial dungeon, it trained the players to look around outside the arena and interact with objects in battle

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I, too, love to complain about devs making the game mechanics consistent.

These contents are not representative of the rest of the game, so it makes sense to make them more like the rest of the game. The game has had the "lmao ARR sucks, just skip it" reputation long enough. "It gets good eventually" is a poor way to defend a game.

Permadeath has not been a thing in 6 years (not counting the unreals), there is no teaching element in it, as the rest of the game doesn't work that way. All it serves now is to deprive experience from a new player who fell off, because 9 times out of 10, the party will easily clear without them. Any player falling off before usually meant a wipe back in the "glory days" people so fondly seem to remember, even the ones who didn't play back then. Yea, I'm sure people honestly want that back.

Non-linear dungeons haven't been a thing relaunch.

Can we add the ability to become a trust? Like if you get bored mid dungeon you can just type in /trust and you become a bot too so you can go do something else?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

https://static1.thegamerimages.com/w...w=2000&dpr=1.5

Maybe this is what awaits us.

Come to think of it, they did speak of "perfecting" FF14 in one of the SHB fan fest interviews. :p

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Farther still existed a star without strife... ...where none remembered life's trials—or its joys. What its people had gained from ease, they lost to apathy. So they created the kindest, most gentle of beasts. Its steps were light, and its gift was as painless as it was beautiful. Bathed in its golden glow, they all slept happily ever after...

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

Farther still existed a star without strife... ...where none remembered life's trials—or its joys. What its people had gained from ease, they lost to apathy. So they created the kindest, most gentle of beasts. Its steps were light, and its gift was as painless as it was beautiful. Bathed in its golden glow, they all slept happily ever after...

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Mind = Blown. Who knew such forbidden truths would be found within the game itself.

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Originally Posted by Whalaqee

Farther still existed a star without strife... ...where none remembered life's trials—or its joys. What its people had gained from ease, they lost to apathy. So they created the kindest, most gentle of beasts. Its steps were light, and its gift was as painless as it was beautiful. Bathed in its golden glow, they all slept happily ever after...

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Farther still existed a star without Kaiten... ...where none remembered Samurai's trials—or its joys. What its players had gained from ease, they lost to apathy. So they created the simplified, most homogenized of roles. Its abilities were light, and its gift was as critical as it was beautiful. Bathed in its golden parse, they all slept happily ever after...

Because I am truly a terrible person. :D

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Farther still existed a star without Kaiten... ...where none remembered Samurai's trials—or its joys. What its players had gained from ease, they lost to apathy. So they created the simplified, most homogenized of roles. Its abilities were light, and its gift was as critical as it was beautiful. Bathed in its golden parse, they all slept happily ever after...

Because I am truly a terrible person. :D

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I've been trying to think of how to make a meme about dps skills/abilities not being at fault for the party wiping but the healer using that training scene from The Batman where Ra's is training Bruce on the ice. Where he talks about his parents death being the fault of his father, the will to act, etc.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Also to those saying falling off of Titan or w/e "didn't let you learn anything"... you realize people could watch the fight while permadead, right? They could see mechanics going out, in what order, what they do, and generally get a sense of how to work through them by watching other players performing them. I'm not really bothered one way or another about that specifically, but they are effectively removing teaching tools for the sake of making ARR content even more boring and safe than it already was.

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Really? When did they change that?
Last time I got knocked off Titan all I could see was the bottom of the chasm. With sounds of fighting above

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Originally Posted by hagare

Really? When did they change that?
Last time I got knocked off Titan all I could see was the bottom of the chasm. With sounds of fighting above

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several patches ago

I'm sure most of these changes were made in preparation for trust AI, as they seem like things the AI would struggle with.

If Urianger's tendency to get himself killed in my trust runs is any indication, it's likely the AI players were constantly falling off during testing.
I could just imagine the deluge of complaints from brand-new players if they kept the permadeath on Titan and the AI kept falling off or standing in landslides.
Just imagine it from the perspective of a brand-new player. You go in, you do the fight flawlessly, and yet you wipe over and over again because all the AI party members keep falling off and can't be revived.
Something like that happening would make the game look completely unpolished to new players.

AI aside, I don't really see why the permadeath should be preserved outside of Unreal.
Would a new player who fell off within the first minute and who was forced to watch his party complete the fight without him really find that to be compelling gameplay? Of course not, which is why that mechanic has not made a comeback in any post-heavensward trials.

I'm glad the old platform yeets now have a rez in them. No more watching the entire fight bored.

Being yeeted off the platform by Titan is a mechanic that is just so easy to mess up when your latency is high. It's a very short cast time attack before the snapshot. On OCE servers it's pretty simple for me, but it still gives me a lot of problems on US servers.

Laying at the bottom dead while other people do the fight for you is an embarrassing experience. Especially if you get hit by the very first single landslide - not even making it to the later ones.

One positive thing to come out of this is that I'll no longer have people screaming at me in chat to rez them when I literally can't. That being said, I really only had that happen maybe three times?

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

several patches ago

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So this wasn't the first "adjustment"

Probably not the only one saying this but: I get why people are upset, and I bet if it were just the hard/normal mode it would have upset them a lot less.

But honestly, calm down. I originally would have absolutely hated this change but after all of this content being years old I hate to say it but it’s a long time coming. Not because of this content being too hard or something but because the more casual players who are joining shouldn’t have to experience that. As someone who was that when I first started playing I can 100% say that it’s absolutely crushing when the second major event in the story of ARR is Titan and you don’t get to participate and still win. You fall off 10 seconds into the fight and basically get told “ya done”. Now that was back when lag and the server tick were bad but I’d still not wish that on a new player and not be surprised if it scared off a lot of new players. Early-to-mid ARR is very important to catching a player and keeping a player especially after all of the struggle they went to just to get their mogstation account because that system is a mess. “Oh but it removes the challenge” yes, but the new players coming in don’t want a challenge that early on and after being told how good it gets in HW I think they’d not find it worth it to be smacked off and told they don’t get to play.

And that’s just Titan. The others are old or irrelevant in my eyes. Yes I’m upset the extremes are getting nerfed too, especially since the ability to minimum ilvl the fights is still an option for those. But as for the normals, who really cares? And if you care that much why?

Also on Hraesvelgr, I don’t get why people like that fight. Honestly that dungeon is boring and that fight is kinda just dumb, imo. And everyone I know hates to do that fight if we get it in a roulette. I’m not sure if this fixes the issues they and I hate about it.

Also another theory as to why that might have been changed: they may have wanted to remove the whole being revivable after death didn’t work with it. Because the respawn point needed to be somewhere on the platforms that could be destroyed and this caused issues with it as it’s a dungeon and not a trial or raid. And if anybody has been knocked off during that fight they know the point where you are placed is at the end of the dungeon. That’s my guess but I can’t speak on that.

It's not nerfing the content, it's making the fights function the same as current fights. It's not any different than the markers in World of Darkness being changed so that they match stack/spread markers that are used in endwalker, parity between mechanics is better than every Extreme and Trial having varying rules of how mechanics interact.

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Originally Posted by Chyro

Futuresight: Patch 8.1 notes
- We found combat in instanced content too challenging for our players, so we replaced all instanced combat with a cutscene that auto completes the instanced dungeon, trial or raid.

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Patch 8.1.1 : due to popular request we added a few active time maneuver to spice up the experience and make it more engaging ! :3

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Originally Posted by Syln

Patch 8.1.1 : due to popular request we added a few active time maneuver to spice up the experience and make it more engaging ! :3

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Do I get to punch a rock though?

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Do I get to punch a rock though?

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Inside a volcano that is about to errupt ? yes !

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

As somebody who started playing the game way later than you, it was more annoying and frustrating to sit and watch a battle when I fell off (or not being able to resurrect somebody when they fell). It didn't make me want to quit but I don't think the person you were 7 years ago enjoyed it much at all.

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Hate to be that guy but you know there's a solution to this besides unnecessary nerfs?

Don't get knocked off.

Strange decision. As if the content wasn't already easy enough.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Hate to be that guy but you know there's a solution to this besides unnecessary nerfs?

Don't get knocked off.

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Agreed for the most part. The 4 man should allow you to rez but 8man hard/ex modes should not be touched. In a way, the way it felt already felt like it was exclusive to Titan which made him a much more dangerous threat. Get rid of that and people might as well run unsynced since what little thrill to that fight is now gone. The bigger question is will this "fix" be applied to the Unreal version when it comes back?

Good. Permadeath is an ancient, archaic mechanic that has no need to exist in this game outside of niche side-content that is designed with it in mind.

It removed any semblance of skill or control of the situation - didn't matter if your healers were skilled and could easily dodge all the knockoff mechanics then rez the party for the epic comeback, the moment someone got yeeted, any and all counterplays or party recovery were gone. Not to mention it's just a completely hostile mechanic to fun in its entirety. 'Tee-hee, you made a small mistake/had a lag spike/had no idea that knockback was coming since its your first time ever in this fight (Ravana's knockback after Bloody Fuller, Bismark's wind phase & getting stunned into the add's knockback AOEs) and now you just don't get to play'. How anyone can defend its existence when it's such a Zenith of truly interesting and engaging gameplay getting to stare at your screen while the rest of the party either wipes or kills the fight for you, assuming you don't just tab out and spend those minutes doing something else is beyond me.

"It taught people" - I'm sorry to burst your bubble: no, it didn't. Anyone who cares to learn will learn, anyone who doesn't won't, regardless of perma death or just a temporary death. It's been that way since time immemorial - a not insignificant % of the playerbase will never desire to learn no matter what you do or lessons you try to 'teach' them. Perma was just needlessly punishing for zero point. It was artificial fake difficulty done bad, nothing more.

I actually prefer being able to be revived if I fall off an arena. Falling off and watching the entire fight afterwards isn't really engaging play either.

I don't feel they need to nerf most things though, but a lot of this is very early content. For people letting their subs expire over it - how often were you going to level 40 dungeons and finding that exciting even as is?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Hate to be that guy but you know there's a solution to this besides unnecessary nerfs?

Don't get knocked off.

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A lot of players are playing with bad latency and poor FPS. I can remember when I started playing - I was on a toaster of a computer (barely met the minimum system requirements at the time) with a slow internet connection.

I would do my best not to get knocked off by Titan but it was always a crapshoot. Most of the time, I would still get knocked off despite doing my best to anticipate the need to move. I would feel bad for not being able to contribute the rest of the fight and it discouraged me from queuing for group content because I would never know if I would get stuck in a duty where my FPS issues would be a big detriment to the group.

Then I finally got a decent computer. What happened? I stopped getting knocked off and was able to contribute for all of the fight. I don't worry when I queue anymore.

What SE is doing not only making a better experience for the individual player, it is removing a penalty that the entire party is incurring because one member doesn't have the best equipment.

I don't necessarily agree that they needed to make the change for the EX trials (EX is totally optional content) but certainly it was warranted for Normal/Hard modes.

Permadeath was bad anyways so it's a good change. You're not really properly teaching a new player how to do the fight if they make one mistake, fall off, and everyone kills the boss without them. I get Titan EX all the time in mentor roulette and I know my way around the fight thanks to having cleared UWU. 90% of the time I get this fight the bulk of the dps get killed by getting knocked off and I get them the clear. Was spending the whole time on the floor unable to be rezzed really a good experience for a sprout? Of course not. This gives new players more opportunities to actually learn the fight.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

Good. Permadeath is an ancient, archaic mechanic that has no need to exist in this game outside of niche side-content that is designed with it in mind.

It removed any semblance of skill or control of the situation - didn't matter if your healers were skilled and could easily dodge all the knockoff mechanics then rez the party for the epic comeback, the moment someone got yeeted, any and all counterplays or party recovery were gone. Not to mention it's just a completely hostile mechanic to fun in its entirety. 'Tee-hee, you made a small mistake/had a lag spike/had no idea that knockback was coming since its your first time ever in this fight (Ravana's knockback after Bloody Fuller, Bismark's wind phase & getting stunned into the add's knockback AOEs) and now you just don't get to play'. How anyone can defend its existence when it's such a Zenith of truly interesting and engaging gameplay getting to stare at your screen while the rest of the party either wipes or kills the fight for you, assuming you don't just tab out and spend those minutes doing something else is beyond me.

"It taught people" - I'm sorry to burst your bubble: no, it didn't. Anyone who cares to learn will learn, anyone who doesn't won't, regardless of perma death or just a temporary death. It's been that way since time immemorial - a not insignificant % of the playerbase will never desire to learn no matter what you do or lessons you try to 'teach' them. Perma was just needlessly punishing for zero point. It was artificial fake difficulty done bad, nothing more.

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It wasn't permadeath, it was more a thing done for immersion. It's just that I think the AI for the trusts tries to raise people who are downed during the fight, and if one of those other npcs gets knocked off, it could probably lock out the other trust NPC that is responsible for casting raise from taking actions. It is a quality of life improvement, but given the AI stuff it just feels that some of it is being done for making trusts work.

There goes people killing the trial for me for my unfortunate mistake.

Not gonna miss Limitless Blue taking 3-4 chains because people jump too early.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

It wasn't permadeath, it was more a thing done for immersion. It's just that I think the AI for the trusts tries to raise people who are downed during the fight, and if one of those other npcs gets knocked off, it could probably lock out the other trust NPC that is responsible for casting raise from taking actions. It is a quality of life improvement, but given the AI stuff it just feels that some of it is being done for making trusts work.

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I don't believe for a moment that Trust AI had anything to do with this change, or in fact, the majority, if any of these changes. The AI is more than capable of doing mechanics, unless a specific party member is explicitly programmed to do something stupid (like how Mothercrystal goes, only Y'Shtola is programmed to consistently dodge AoEs), or the player is actively preventing them from doing so. They are really consistent with them.

This change was also done for 8-man trials, that are not supported by the AI.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

I don't believe for a moment that Trust AI had anything to do with this change, or in fact, the majority, if any of these changes. The AI is more than capable of doing mechanics, unless a specific party member is explicitly programmed to do something stupid (like how Mothercrystal goes, only Y'Shtola is programmed to consistently dodge AoEs), or the player is actively preventing them from doing so. They are really consistent with them.

This change was also done for 8-man trials, that are not supported by the AI.

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I'm not so sure about this, trust AI consistently has trouble dodging two aoe that overlap a bit. The amount of times I have watched urianger confidentely step out of one aoe only to still stand in another made me very doubtful of the trust AI.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Hate to be that guy but you know there's a solution to this besides unnecessary nerfs?

Don't get knocked off.

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Avoiding getting knocked off is not a justification for seemingly very poor game design. Insta-death alone is perfectly fine.

I disagree that permadeath is a bad mechanic but do agree its not needed in normal and hard mode. In extremes or higher which should have permadeath on arena knock-off, it encourages players to play defensively about the arena edges and, more importantly, devalues raise as a mechanic that gets abused to zombie a party through to the end of fights. Permadeath in a fight gives death a consequence, in other words, it's why landslides became so legendary among early ARR players in the first place. You couldn't mess around with them.
I'll cap this off by saying that Titan NM and HM don't need it and it's good that they got rid of it, but EX should have kept it and they never should have stopped with permadeath from falling off in higher difficulty fights.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

A lot of players are playing with bad latency and poor FPS. I can remember when I started playing - I was on a toaster of a computer (barely met the minimum system requirements at the time) with a slow internet connection.

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Aye this, my friend from Brazil couldn't even see the lines on the ground one time, Titan just went into the turn animation and instantly cast the push back. My partner was doing the wondrous tales while I was at work and forgot to turn the vpn on and even moving when the lines first appeared moved and got yeeted anyway extremely late after he thought he was safe.

You can also get murdered by your team bursting you from the rock if you are freed within the yeet lines. You can't move right after freed because you are stunned for a small amount of time. I think it is sad. I would much rather prefer the sprout going through the fight their first time to actually get to play the duty they may have spend 20 minutes or more to queue for.

Oh no, the 10's of people running these extremes synched for some reason! How will they cope!? If SE's willing to change this, how long before ultimates are just QTE's!?!?

Lmao, this junk is goofier than the people fear mongering about how SE was going to make the story hyper PC and woke cause they changed the sage job icon.

Stone Vigil is literal aids, It's one of the worst dungeons in that rotation, Close to keeper of the lake. I'm Glad they are changing it.

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Originally Posted by Bellsong

Oh no, the 10's of people running these extremes synched for some reason! How will they cope!? If SE's willing to change this, how long before ultimates are just QTE's!?!?

Lmao, this junk is goofier than the people fear mongering about how SE was going to make the story hyper PC and woke cause they changed the sage job icon.

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it was hyper pc and woke tbh. The devs trying to tell people that suffering is necessary. Please. Also, let’s not try to argue that just because it’s a minority that it affects, it doesn’t mean it’s okay. Otherwise you have the same mindset as the people behind the horrible hrothgar hair situation.

I don’t think people being unable to play the game anymore no matter what any other party members are able to do is fun game design, so I’m all in favor of people being able to be raised with weaknesses in these older instances now.

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Originally Posted by Juun

To those complaining when was the last time you sat down and went to do these duties?

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Since you're trying to smug, i'll tell you: I got stone vigil a week ago via leveling roulette, and got titan hard on roulette as well (didnt help that my healers were bad enough to get knocked out of the plattform after seeing the indicators).