Job action combos one button

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Originally Posted by Kohl

Why having the OPTION to simplify linear combos should be available

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The problem with making it optional is it won't stay optional. At least not in a functional sense. The dev team isn't going to design a whole system specifically for combo consolidation only to also prune out old abilities. So for players who dislike combo consolidation, they'll eventually be forced into it as new buttons are added and none are removed.

You also list a lot of false assumptions. Button bloat has nothing whatsoever to do with tanks or healers having a single combo/button. They're intentionally designed to be simplified for perceived accessibility. What will happen is tanks will just be reduced to spamming 1111111111111 ala Healers for the vast majority of encounters.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

In what world would it happen and be optional? I mean, in theory, it would always be optional: just bind the same action to several buttons and hit them in rotation, but in practice, you'd be considered a bad player for not just using a one-button rotation if it was offered.

I've never understood this idea that more buttons = smarter gameplay. For me, spotting mechanics and reacting to them is where the clever gameplay lies. More buttons just means that you need to spend more time whacking on a target dummy building muscle memory until doing them all becomes second nature. That's not smart; that's just persistent. Removing buttons isn't "dumbing down" anything. It's just cutting down on the amount of time it takes for players to become proficient with their rotation.

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This is a common, and frankly, irritating misrepresentation of the opposing argument. Nobody is saying 123 is "smarter" or "harder" gameplay. They're saying the feeling of moving their fingers across several keys is more engaging than simply spamming the same one endlessly. Using my own P1S run last night, if Warrior's combo were reduced to a single button, I'd have pressed the 1 key 94 times. It may not seem like much to some but for myself, that feels far more boring. Is 123 harder? Heavens no. But it's something.

And please don't argue, "they'll be able to add new abilities if they consolidation combos!" Look at Summoner. Just... look at it. They had a new slate to work with; an entirely fresh canvas. Look how many buttons it got. Do you really think they'll give Warrior two full combos or replace the 6-7 buttons Dragoon loses? I guarantee they won't.

The thing you’re looking for is already there ‘pcombo’ addon, it’s what makes this game playable.

It also has intelligent functions, like baking the continuation moves from GNB into the “main button”. <3

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Originally Posted by Kohl

Why having the OPTION to simplify linear combos should be available

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That would be okay if this were a single player game, but it isn't. The thing about "optional" things in MMOs is that they eventually become so dominant that it becomes less of an option and more of a community standard for both players and developers. Players optimize the fun out of video games, and then enforce that standard onto others. It'll just become "meta" to condense all your buttons down to 1 button because it'll cut down on potential errors as you're unlikely to break your combo or to make a mistake. While it's very easy to say "don't listen to the meta, just play what you want" the fact of the matter is that an MMO is a social game with a social community, despite Yoshi's best efforts to make this a single player JRPG. What becomes the community meta will exert pressure on others to conform, either subtly by just seeing a lot of people say that it makes the game much easier and cuts down on mistakes, or directly by being told "How'd you break your combo? Are you not using the button condenser?"

Im glad they changed the GNB gnashing cartridge combo into a single button repeated action , it feels less bloaty , naturally, and much better on the fingers to play using the same keybinds as my other tanks now that its saved me 2 hot bar slots

I just wish the tanks didnt have the slow as 2.49 recast on most of it skills it feels so dated and clunky despite enjoying the tanks a lot , but that's another topic entirely

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

Im glad they changed the GNB gnashing cartridge combo into a single button repeated action , it feels less bloaty , naturally, and much better on the fingers to play using the same keybinds as my other tanks now that its saved me 2 hot bar slots

I just wish the tanks didnt have the slow as 2.49 recast on most of it skills it feels so dated and clunky despite enjoying the tanks a lot , but that's another topic entirely

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That change at the same time made it harder to keep track of which ability you're at in your Gnashing Fang combo.



2.5 is only the base GCD, Skill Speed reduces it. The 2.5 second GCD exists because you have oGCDs to weave in-between those 2.5 seconds and double weaving oGCDs is actually mandatory on GnB if you want to play it at even just a competent level. Anything below 2 seconds makes it basically impossible to double weave.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

That change at the same time made it harder to keep track of which ability you're at in your Gnashing Fang combo.

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I dont find it hard to remember much as it press the button x3 till the combo is over either the default triple or the ShB continuation combo weave so for me i press Shift+D (Gnashing) X3 or Shift_D >Shift+SPACEBAR(Continuation rip tear gouge) in sequnce 3 times


am i missing some weave thing or its that the 90 skill i havnt got yet?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You also list a lot of false assumptions. Button bloat has nothing whatsoever to do with tanks or healers having a single combo/button.

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You're assuming something I didn't say. I never claimed that was a cause, I simply stated that it would make room without increasing the number of buttons.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is a common, and frankly, irritating misrepresentation of the opposing argument. Nobody is saying 123 is "smarter" or "harder" gameplay. They're saying the feeling of moving their fingers across several keys is more engaging than simply spamming the same one endlessly. Using my own P1S run last night, if Warrior's combo were reduced to a single button, I'd have pressed the 1 key 94 times. It may not seem like much to some but for myself, that feels far more boring. Is 123 harder? Heavens no. But it's something.

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Not assumption, people literally said as much... in this thread, and you just inferred it again in your rebuttal.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And please don't argue, "they'll be able to add new abilities if they consolidation combos!" Look at Summoner. Just... look at it. They had a new slate to work with; an entirely fresh canvas. Look how many buttons it got. Do you really think they'll give Warrior two full combos or replace the 6-7 buttons Dragoon loses? I guarantee they won't.

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Again, I didn't say they would do anything, I said it opened a door to more actions without increased buttons. I game on a controller because they give you that option and it makes the game more enjoyable. If they gave me the option to do this I would because it makes more sense on a controller. Other people would want it for different reasons. But the dev team seems pretty keen on giving us a lot of options, especially on things like UI. So I do not share your concerns. I would prefer it as an option and I still want people who don't prefer it to have the UI be how it is good for them.

I still think combos should only exist on jobs that have some fluidy/mesh with them (monk is a prime example. I'd never ask to remove monk combos because the monk job IS its combos). What I'd rather have are more choices on spenders. If you spent less time having to build resources (in a combo) and could spend more time making intelligent decisions on what to use with said resource then the 1-2-3 in jobs like RPR would feel less like deadair time.

I am two drinks in, but monk has combos that feel like they should be there while jobs like RPR have combos because they didn't know how else to fill the space between your spenders.

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Originally Posted by Kohl

You're assuming something I didn't say. I never claimed that was a cause, I simply stated that it would make room without increasing the number of buttons.

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Yes. But you're still implying the lack of perceived button space was ever a reason to begin with. Like I said, even if they did consolidate combos, they wouldn't add new ones. We'd just have less buttons to press. Several jobs have plenty of space even now. They still don't want to add additional combos on tanks or DPS buttons on Healers.

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Originally Posted by Kohl

Not assumption, people literally said as much... in this thread, and you just inferred it again in your rebuttal.

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Who in this thread has even insinuated pressing 123 instead of 111 is harder? Even if there were a few, they're a distinct minority yet every time combo consolidation is brought up, several people act as though this is the only reason people have any opposition towards it. Even your own quote essentially dismissing the opposing perspective as being "threatened".

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Originally Posted by Kohl

Again, I didn't say they would do anything, I said it opened a door to more actions without increased buttons. I game on a controller because they give you that option and it makes the game more enjoyable. If they gave me the option to do this I would because it makes more sense on a controller. Other people would want it for different reasons. But the dev team seems pretty keen on giving us a lot of options, especially on things like UI. So I do not share your concerns. I would prefer it as an option and I still want people who don't prefer it to have the UI be how it is good for them.

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The problem is it will never be optional. They aren't going to design a consolidation system only to then continue pruning abilities. So in the case of say, Gunbreaker. If three new abilities were added, I'm suddenly squeezing for hotbar space because none were removed. So I either have to put these abilities on awkward keybinds or am forced into consolidating combos. Hence why it isn't optional for those of us who dislike it. At least it won't be at some point.

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Originally Posted by Thi

If it happens and it's not optional I'd honestly quit. That would be the last straw in the constant dumbing down of the game for me.

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What is it with mmo players and their button fetish...

We only got 10 fingers!

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

We'd just have less buttons to press.

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less buttons, same APM.
Instead of pressing 123 you go 111
you still have to do it three times.
Less bloat means easier hotbar management.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The problem with making it optional is it won't stay optional. At least not in a functional sense.... players who dislike combo consolidation... [will] eventually be forced into it as new buttons are added and none are removed.

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This presumes that any decrease to present button count would necessitate that new button-consuming actions must fill the then savable spaces. While I wouldn't be opposed to that, it runs contrary to trends since Heavensward, which have usually seen increasingly less depth included per button and have been increasingly less accepting of higher button counts, even to the point of removing actual and more integral depth (e.g., Monk's ability to position once each per stanceless DoT period) to try to remain within a "comfortable" button total.

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The dev team isn't going to design a whole system specifically for combo consolidation only to also prune out old abilities.

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First, it's not a new system. We've had it since Stormblood.

Second, so what? At worst, those who refuse to consolidate go from, say, some 24 buttons to 27. That's hardly damning to those who like their buttons or consequent finger drift.

Admittedly, though, if this was all left completely to player option, such could require some new design (or, just no longer purposely putting barriers in the way of macro functionality), but that'd also mean that a player could set their GCDs to go 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 as they do Storm's Path or Storm's Eye, respectively, even while not wasting any keys (with, say, Fell Cleave and Decimate simply moving around based on combo progress).

A new system could allow for that "hit different button per step" engagement, while a 1-1-1 or 2-2-2 for each respective combo would, in fact, be a 3-expansion-old system ready for implementation.

So which is it? The system you're complaining about wouldn't have to be developed, while any system that would need development could address your exact concern.

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And please don't argue, "they'll be able to add new abilities if they consolidation combos!" Look at Summoner. Just... look at it. They had a new slate to work with; an entirely fresh canvas. Look how many buttons it got. Do you really think they'll give Warrior two full combos or replace the 6-7 buttons Dragoon loses? I guarantee they won't.

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Then where is your first argument going? If there's little to no chance of SE filling that space saved with new buttons for those who use that option, how does that "option" break down into a "requirement" over increased button count?

I don't mean to "got ya!" or whatnot here, but it can't be both, so which is our predominant fear -- that (A) jobs will get more complex and thus make the option no longer an option, or (B) that the option will remain as much an option (and simply that, with it becoming more obvious that there are no unique affordances to having those separate buttons for rigid combos, fewer people will feel inclined to favor that bit of extra memory aid over button efficiency and thereby depopularize something you prefer, even if it still remains truly an option)?

I love you, Shurrikhan, and everything you've said, but I'd just like to add something

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Who in this thread has even insinuated pressing 123 instead of 111 is harder?

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I know it isn't your argument, but the fact is : it is. For many people out there. There are loads of people in this thread that argued that concatenated combos would be dumbing down the game, and everybody, including you, agrees it wouldn't make it easier for them to use those. But there are people out there that have arthritis, psychomotricity issues, and whatnot. The argument over "if it would be more comfortable for the average joe" is already a mess because you're all pretending you'll be forced to play that way, or, and I don't know what's less probable, that you'll quit if it is implemented, but there are people out there that need it to play harder content.

Therefore, it should be implemented, whatever you think about it.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

I know it isn't your argument, but the fact is : it is. For many people out there.

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Sorry to interject, but this point may want reiteration? Forte needn't answer for others' positions, even any immediately surrounding their own.

Just a note: What if the term were instead "sand down" or "shallow out" or "change the vibes of" instead of "dumb down"? Would that change the tenor of how your argument interacts with Forte's, more specifically?

My point being... what was lost doesn't necessarily have to be difficulty. And while that "something other than difficulty" feature in changing button presses per step isn't a factor of enjoyment for me, and I'd favor having the option regardless (since I do think it would in fact remain an option so long as players didn't read into the change more than is intended by it, on which Yoshida can have great effect if he just made plain what he has planned for it), I can see why that'd feature still be notable for others.

:: Sorry, again, for the tangential critique. Please do critique me, as well, if I seemingly miss a step.

No, just to be clear, I didn't adress that argument at Forte, hence the "I know it isn't your argument". I'm just stating something else to add to this, using a quote of them as a starting point. No hard feeling whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

I'm out of easy reached keys as is. I know I could better utilize my off gcd ability if I wasn't having to find my mouse cruiser only to click there set to alt or ctl

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Let's say you use 1,2,3,4,q,e,z,x,c,v,f,r,t

That's 13 buttons directly around your left hand. Then you have ALT, Shift and Control. So that's 39 keys. You can also make a macro to switch to a hidden bar behind your main bar for an extra 12 slots on the same keybinds.

You have access to 51 different keybinds with just those few buttons.

You're not out of keybinds.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

What is it with mmo players and their button fetish...

We only got 10 fingers!

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Right? I don’t get it…

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Yes. But you're still implying the lack of perceived button...

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Nope, still really am not implying any of the things you keep flinching at.
On a controller? Yeah… maybe kinda, but I also use hot bars for overflow items, so not really.
Whatever…

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Let's say you use 1,2,3,4,q,e,z,x,c,v,f,r,t

That's 13 buttons directly around your left hand. Then you have ALT, Shift and Control. So that's 39 keys. You can also make a macro to switch to a hidden bar behind your main bar for an extra 12 slots on the same keybinds.

You have access to 51 different keybinds with just those few buttons.

You're not out of keybinds.

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I have very large hands, pressing alt and another key at the same time every 10 or 20 seconds is really painful if I play for more than 20 or thirty minutes. Imagine if you have arthritis, sclerosis, or whatever.

I see no way pressing ctrl + something is not hurtful after some time, be it for my hands, or for people with smaller hands. So that's 26. Take into account that, because of my hands, pressing x or c while moving will be hurtful after some time, that's 22, and that's more than most classes have.

I still have no issue because I have a keyboard that enables me to use f-keys easily, but what works for you may not work for others. And then again, it's an option, it doesn't take anything from you.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

I have very large hands, pressing alt and another key at the same time every 10 or 20 seconds is really painful if I play for more than 20 or thirty minutes. Imagine if you have arthritis, sclerosis, or whatever.

I see no way pressing ctrl + something is not hurtful after some time, be it for my hands, or for people with smaller hands. So that's 26. Take into account that, because of my hands, pressing x or c while moving will be hurtful after some time, that's 22, and that's more than most classes have.

I still have no issue because I have a keyboard that enables me to use f-keys easily, but what works for you may not work for others. And then again, it's an option, it doesn't take anything from you.

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If you have small hands you have the alt and ctrl keys. If you have big hands you have the function keys.

You also have a hidden bar behind your main bar that shares your main bars keybinds. Making a small macro to switch to that bar isn't difficult.

Heck, if I'm not mistaken you can do that with any hidden bar and any displayed bar. The macro takes up a slot on each bar, but instead of having 12 active keybinds for spells you now have 22 on one bar with only 11 keybinds.

Do that with your shift hot bar as well and you now have 44 open slots on 22 keybinds.

This is what I do. I have a bar set up with normal keybinds that feel good for me to use. I then have a second hidden bar behind it that I switch to using Caps Lock. (Mind you, I had to macro my keyboard to change caps to one of my NumLock keys because the game doesn't allow you to bind to Caps for some reason.)

And then I have a third hot bar next to my main one with all of my primary keybinds with shift modifiers.

And then a fourth bar with misc keybinds that aren't used every minute.

I have 34 active slots on 23 keybinds. (Half of which are just shift modifiers.) Plus a few misc keybinds on top of that.

It's not all that hard to find room if you get creative.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

,z,x,c,v

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the rest are good, these ones I avoid xD

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

What is it with mmo players and their button fetish...

We only got 10 fingers!

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Because pressing 1 button is boring?

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

And then again, it's an option, it doesn't take anything from you.

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Its not going to be an option, please stop saying that it is.

It isn't an option in pvp to opt out and it wasn't an option in EW update with the Gnashing Fang combo as I mentioned in an earlier post.

In the grand scheme of things is this a minor complaint for me? Yes. Which is why changing it isn't a hill I will die on.

Will I still be cursing SE out for messing with my muscle memory? Yes I will. I did when EW hit and I do so every role play quest.

Well, it is an option now. Just get dalamud add on.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Let's say you use 1,2,3,4,q,e,z,x,c,v,f,r,t

That's 13 buttons directly around your left hand. Then you have ALT, Shift and Control. So that's 39 keys. You can also make a macro to switch to a hidden bar behind your main bar for an extra 12 slots on the same keybinds.

You have access to 51 different keybinds with just those few buttons.

You're not out of keybinds.

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I can manage 23/24 keybinds (2 x 12 row bars)

anything more than that means i have to lift my hand of of my wasd position or mouse and years of PVP in WoW (early years) and SWTOR meant that taking a hand off of wasd for movement meant i was a duck in the water

so all mine are around wasd , then shift or alt modifiers

q, a, capslock(if a game allows it), f, x, Shft+Xx, MMb, shft+MMB , shft+d , shift+spce , c , shift+c ,r - makes up my hotbar 1

1, 2, 3, 4, shift+q , shft+e. shft+f alt+1, alt+2, alt+3 ,shft+r make up my second hotbar . Ideally a class has no more than 23-24 spells to place on the hotbars , if they do ill have a few on extra hotbars in a north east direction where my mouse pointer naturally floats when im idling on the mouse

on occasion ill use f1=4 for things but i have to lift off of wasd and i dont like that.

My muscle memory and my age wont allow me to get used to more ,as i just fall over when it comes to trying to re write 15 years of mmo key bind muscle memory

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Its not going to be an option, please stop saying that it is.

It isn't an option in pvp to opt out and it wasn't an option in EW update with the Gnashing Fang combo as I mentioned in an earlier post.

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PvP isn't worth comparing here; that option was removed only as part of a far larger set of simplifying changes meant to make end-game PvP's kits accessible even to first-time level 30 PvPers when the level spans were squished together.

The EW update is relevant, but making consolidation an option instead merely requires that they remove the "cannot be added to hotbar" clause from the combo steps beyond the first and provide a separate available 'combo' key (which we already have the structure for) in the Actions and Traits menu that one could drag and drop onto their bars.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Well, it is an option now. Just get dalamud add on.

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Consoles: "Well, this was expected."

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

If you have small hands you have the alt and ctrl keys. If you have big hands you have the function keys.

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The function keys, on most keyboards I've seen, are either inside the alt key (thus not preferable over Alt for larger hands anyways) or are --typically smaller-- on the far end of the keyboard...
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I agree that the use of mod and thumb keys allow for a great many accessible binds, but what a player has access to, even then, is still within particular thresholded limits based on hand size and degree of mobility, even when ignoring any difficulty in adjusting muscle memory to a new layout.

The last time I injured my hand (and wrist), the only mod key I could reliably use without pain, especially if playing more than some dozen minutes, sessions was my CAPS, which I had rebound to Alt. Adding Shift allowed me another 10 keys (QWERASFZXC) but required moving my palm down from a neutral WASD position.

That's not to say we should build the game around that degree of injury, but "just get creative" isn't particularly useful advice; there are certain movements that become unusable, unusable without pain, or unusable without pain over longer spans, whether that be stretching laterally, vertically, twisting the wrist inwardly, outwardly, or translation (due to needing to rest the weight of the hand).

To assume that anyone having problems just hasn't remotely tried to think their way out of their situation is... not great.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

PvP isn't worth comparing here; that option was removed only as part of a far larger set of simplifying changes meant to make end-game PvP's kits accessible even to first-time level 30 PvPers when the level spans were squished together.

The EW update is relevant, but making consolidation an option instead merely requires that they remove the "cannot be added to hotbar" clause from the combo steps beyond the first and provide a separate available 'combo' key (which we already have the structure for) in the Actions and Traits menu that one could drag and drop onto their bars.

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And from both PvP's example and EW they could have made it an option and they have not.
It is very likely if we ask for this change, they will not.

If they do consolidate buttons, it is mostly to clear the way to add in more. /shrug

I'm not saying SE shouldn't accomedate for people who have hand troubles, but I am saying that they aren't going to make it an option for people who don't want it.

Otherwise I'd have the option to use 1-2-3 in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That's not to say we should build the game around that degree of injury, but "just get creative" isn't particularly useful advice; there are certain movements that become unusable, unusable without pain, or unusable without pain over longer spans, whether that be stretching laterally, vertically, twisting the wrist inwardly, outwardly, or translation (due to needing to rest the weight of the hand).

To assume that anyone having problems just hasn't remotely tried to think their way out of their situation is... not great.

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Getting creative is good advice though. I've mentioned it twice now and not a single person who's replied to me has bothered to consider it. Use a macro that allows your primary hotbar to switch to a secondary hidden hotbar that lies directly behind your primary one that uses the exact same keybinds as your primary hotbar.

If you have 12 keys that you can use comfortably with your main hotbar, then you automatically have a second hotbar that can use those exact same keys.

/hotbar change 5

That's it. Make a macro for that and plop it on your hotbar. (yes it'll take up a slot. But doing so opens up 11 more slots.) Just change the 5 to whatever hotbar you have open that you're not using.

And then on the new hotbar you make a second macro that's the exact same.

/hotbar change 1


That's creative. That's all there is to it. You can have several hotbars share the same keybinds without any modifiers or mods/addons Ect..

Bind that one specific keybind to something easy to reach (I did Caps Lock) and every time you hit Caps lock you'll switch to a new bar full of spells that you can use with your normal keybinds.

That opens you up from having 12 hotbar slots to 22.

If you have enough mobility to comfortably reach and use any of the modifiers, then you can have a second hotbar with that modifier.

If you still need more space, make more macros for more hidden bars.

If you're able to use shift comfortably, then you can also make a hidden bar behind your shift modifier hotbar by doing the exact same thing.

Edit: You can place things like raid CD's, defensive CD's, personal heals, resurrect stuns Ect.. on the hidden bar if you don't like the thought of having to constantly switch between them to check CD's.

On my Dragoon for example, that's where I put my two heals, all my jumps, Mirage dive and Geirskogul.

It's for out of the way abilities that I don't need every few seconds, but have access to if I need them quickly.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

anything more than that means i have to lift my hand of of my wasd position or mouse and years of PVP in WoW (early years) and SWTOR meant that taking a hand off of wasd for movement meant i was a duck in the water

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My muscle memory and my age wont allow me to get used to more ,as i just fall over when it comes to trying to re write 15 years of mmo key bind muscle memory

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I hear that. I'm right there with you. That's why I created a small macro that allows me to keep a second bar underneath my primary one. I have 22 slots on 11 keybinds. The second bar shares the keybinds with the primary bar. So my hand doesn't have to leave WASD to hit anything.

I'd be more than fine with it. My hotbars only have so much room and I've only got so many fingers to press buttons with. They've been doing it in PvP for years now, I see no reason to not do so outside it as well.

I'm not a keyboard/mouse player, but can you not change the movement keys from WASD? Especially if you have big hands and the shift/ctrl keys are too close, change the movement to 'esdf', this shifts your main hand position over giving more space.

You could also potentially move it closer to the middle and use other letters as 'shift/ctrl', again, though, since I am not a keyboard player, I do not know if this is possible (but I do not see why not).

BUT WAIT, you cannot touch the sacred WASD for movement, don't be absurd. To that I say, break the mould (if it is possible).

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Getting creative is good advice though. I've mentioned it twice now and not a single person who's replied to me has bothered to consider it. Use a macro that allows your primary hotbar to switch to a secondary hidden hotbar that lies directly behind your primary one that uses the exact same keybinds as your primary hotbar.

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Such is a worthwhile way to go about it, but it assumes that those with mobility issues are nonetheless willing to toggle hotbar changes back and forth any time they want to reach a key beyond their original 10-11, doubling the button-presses of accessing other hotbars.

Moreover, using "hidden bars" prevents one from tracking any CDs on said bar. (The more reasonable, if one is fine with toggling each time they need a bar beyond the first, is typically to have your active bar faded and off screen and show all one needs to track in whatever configuration is most visible and intuitive, across however many unbound hotbars.)

Finally, you only get 10 bars. The average player uses, what, 6 of those as shared bars just for their job-swaps, quick menu items, emotes, gyshal greens, food, etc., leaving them with, if macroed, 4 bars of 9 with much awkward bar-hopping or 3 bars of 10 (more reasonable, imo)? 30 keys is typically enough, but would someone struggling with mobility really want to effectively stance-dance for every third action or so?

Yes, there are ways to deal with it, but are those so convenient and accessible that we'd want to forever preclude any option of rational consolidation for those who want it? There is no reason to believe that consolidation would necessitate that new actions be added in place of the buttons spared, ultimately changing consolidation from an option to a requirement; we've seen only the opposite over the course of expansions since HW.

I wouldn't mind

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

Do you think we will see the day where our rotation for combos will be just one button instead of 3-4? I think it would be a blessing and cut down on the hotbar bloat that we are getting for skills. What are your opinions on it?

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Why stop there, we should have one button, period.

You get to some monsters and you push your button, it would do your entire rotation, including buffs and continue to do it until all monsters are dead, it would select single target or AoE for you, if you are a tank, it would use cooldowns, for healers, it could oGCD heal for you too!

Just think of how it would solve all the problems we have. Ice Mage? Solved! Freecure fisher? Not anymore! Tank not using cooldowns for tank busters? Fixed that too! DPS only using single target rotation for 757 monsters? Impossible!

This would be the best change ever implemented to the game!

If they did this, and added in for our characters to actually do mechanics for us, everyone could clear Savage and Ultimate too! Look at that engagement rate, it would be 100%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Why stop there, we should have one button, period.

You get to some monsters and you push your button, it would do your entire rotation, including buffs and continue to do it until all monsters are dead, it would select single target or AoE for you, if you are a tank, it would use cooldowns, for healers, it could oGCD heal for you too!

Just think of how it would solve all the problems we have. Ice Mage? Solved! Freecure fisher? Not anymore! Tank not using cooldowns for tank busters? Fixed that too! DPS only using single target rotation for 757 monsters? Impossible!

This would be the best change ever implemented to the game!

If they did this, and added in for our characters to actually do mechanics for us, everyone could clear Savage and Ultimate too! Look at that engagement rate, it would be 100%

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Yeah when are they gonna add the button that lets me just win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Why stop there, we should have one button, period.

You get to some monsters and you push your button, it would do your entire rotation, including buffs and continue to do it until all monsters are dead, it would select single target or AoE for you, if you are a tank, it would use cooldowns, for healers, it could oGCD heal for you too!

Just think of how it would solve all the problems we have. Ice Mage? Solved! Freecure fisher? Not anymore! Tank not using cooldowns for tank busters? Fixed that too! DPS only using single target rotation for 757 monsters? Impossible!

This would be the best change ever implemented to the game!

If they did this, and added in for our characters to actually do mechanics for us, everyone could clear Savage and Ultimate too! Look at that engagement rate, it would be 100%

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you never pvp do you
or hey, remember playing as Thancred where his combo gets consolidated?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Why stop there, we should have one button, period.

If they did this, and added in for our characters to actually do mechanics for us, everyone could clear Savage and Ultimate too! Look at that engagement rate, it would be 100%

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Right... because consolidating 2 to 7 buttons that already could not be used in any other order, out of up to 29 essential buttons currently present in said kits, suddenly locks you into optimized, autonomous WASD movement and lets one's job play itself...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hagare

you never pvp do you
or hey, remember playing as Thancred where his combo gets consolidated?

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I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way? As for the rest of the post, I was taking the **** on the entire idea.

I truly hate this idea, I despise that it was ever added to PVP and we will see these posts nonstop until the end of time or they give in and do it. At which point, the requests will change to now be requests to add more things into it until we have the famed JP button from FFXI.

That was the point of my post, that these requests are ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way?

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It's still an extension far into the absurd.

The effects are nowhere close; optionally unbloating some 6 to 14% of one's buttons does not reduce one's play to a single button. The intentions are nowhere close; consolidating skills that are already mutually exclusive in practice has no interest in making the game "auto-win".