Its a shame Paladins have to be tanks. I understand.

Why is this forum so toxic? Why does everyone constantly attack each other? Why is it so hard to have a debate without calling each other narcissists or something? This forum is almost as bad as the WoW general forums, and that’s saying something. Why is everyone here so angry at each other?

People really outta start reading the tags under threads on this forum.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

Why is this forum so toxic? Why does everyone constantly attack each other? Why is it so hard to have a debate with calling each other narcissists or something? This forum is almost as bad as the WoW general forums, and that’s saying something. Why is everyone here so angry at each other?

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1. Every internet community big enough gets like this
2. Exacerbated by big design and witing decisions that create torns in the fanbase even if it makes the game more popular (1.23 > 2.5, 3.5 > 4.0, 4.5 > 5.0, etc)

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Honestly, it is probably the role that gets the most abuse in the game.

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No, that's healer, in any MMORPG that has the role, ever.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

If you want to go slower because you are still learning how to tank and interrupt abilities, you get yelled at by DPS.

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Sorry, learning how to tank? Press 2 buttons and you're settled on AoE. If you forget to use mitigation, the healer is the one that has to deal with it, not you.

And interrupt abilities? What? You're playing the wrong game, dude.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

If you want to pull one group at a time, you get yelled at...

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Not that this actually happens, but just pull two? What's the problem. Your AoE has no target cap, so you literally can't do anything wrong. The healer has to deal with your shenanigans, not you.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Its such a toxic experience, I am not surprised the Roulette wants tanks most of the time.

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Actually, while it says tanks are needed most of the time, I have never ever not had an instant queue as healer, while as tank I have to wait at least 30 seconds most of the time. I think this has more to do with the system just not working whatsoever, because they refuse to update their 1995 queueing system.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

I wanted to level a Paladin because they have the coolest armour (In my opinion) but the toxic nature of tanking has REALLY put me off levelling one.

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So playing a simplified DPS puts you off? That's unfortunate, but understandable.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

The toxicity in this game has made a massive spike since we started getting a huge influx of WoW refugees here. Coincidence...?

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Ah, so that's what it's about. You must be 12, so I suppose a history lesson is in order. Back in the day, us adults (then your age) played plenty of different games, rather than religiously following one game, because we all enjoyed playing different kinds of videogames and a lot of them were enjoyable.

In the end, we're all just people, and by the look of it, you're the toxic one around these parts.

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Originally Posted by Satarn

People really outta start reading the tags under threads on this forum.

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Oh dang, i always forget to do it.
How did I fall for bait...

How to tank 1 group of mobs:
1. Run in
2. Aoe
3. Cooldown

How to tank 2 groups of mobs:
1. Run in
2. Aoe
3. Cooldown

How to tank 3 groups of mobs:
1. Run in
2. Aoe
3. Cooldown

On the flip side:
How to DPS down 1 group of mobs:
1. Run after tank
2. Aoe
3. Get your Aoe Combo broken because they melted like butter
4. If you have an AOE that remains behind, waste it because they melted like butter

How to Heal 1 group of mobs:
1. Run after tank
2. Spam singular DPS button
3. MAYBE a regen if your tank is squishy.
4. Don't have enough time to even weave in your 2nd 30-sec CD AOE DPS button

As a tank, your job remains the same regardless of if you tank 1, 2, or 3 packs of mobs. As a healer or DPS, however, your job either becomes a one button snooze fest in the healers case, or infinitely more annoying due to CDs dropping, etc etc, in the DPS case.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Oh dang, i always forget to do it.
How did I fall for bait...

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Because the people who put the tags there aren't the same as those who make the threads, 90% of the time. Hover over the tag and it'll show who put it there.

Folks this is just a troll.

They're lvl 30, so next to zero actual experience as a Paladin.

They're wearing melee DPS armor and have caster (healer) accessories.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Because the people who put the tags there aren't the same as those who make the threads, 90% of the time. Hover over the tag and it'll show who put it there.

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Would help if the tags were on top of the first page instead of the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Knowing how/when to deploy mitigation, which ones for which pulls, is a little bit trial and error. If it wasn't, every tank (player) would be equally as good, and they're not. Many don't even know what a powerful mitigation tool Arm's Length is. Many don't know that you put up Rampart or your 30% as soon as you get to the end of the pull because that's when the most damage is incoming. There's simply pressing buttons, which is better than not mitigating at all, and then there's having an actual mitigation plan that makes sense for the mobs you're fighting and the skill level of the healer/DPS. That's last bit is not a layer of ability that is just inborn at level 30.

EDIT: And I'm humoring you because I like your question and the other guy was so causelessly rude to you.

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I do feel that a player should have figured out the very basics of their class at around lvl 30 to 40, tbh, but that's just personal opinion
the bolded part is important, because it's both a part of another issue* and also implies or even means that the person does not particularly care much about the other people they're doing content with, which is where the * comes in; other players enabling and even teaching those bad habits, instead of giving advice (though this also relies on the person getting advice to be receptive of it, which, again, is also related to the prior established bad habits due to lack of or bad advice by bad players

seeing cure 1/benefic/physick spammers in level 90 content is downright disheartening, just as paladins that clemency when 1% of their healthbar disappears or warriors that never use their self heal - or, well, any tank that doesn't press any mitigations because they've gotten carried by healbots and said healbots getting carried by the rest of the party, where everyone thinks they're playing really well because they've gotten almost no complaints/advice in the hundreds of dungeons they've done
I really like the laidback culture of XIV (contrary to what my posts on the OF probably come across), but sometimes... sometimes it shouldn't be so laid back and players should show some personal responsibility and respect for the other players in the parties, y'know?

no class is rocket science, no class is overly heard to learn to play at an average to decent level, use mitigations as a tank, press 1-2-3 and other glowy buttons as a dps and heal when you must dps when you mustn't as a healer, and yet, the vitriol you sometimes get thrown your way if you dare to speak up and give advice like yours for example, (or are of the opinion that players should give advice, if they can) is really disheartening - and no, it's definitely not a "it's how you say it issue" like some people on the OF love to say, as I've seen people practically baby talk their advice to someone playing really really badly, where that little bit of advice would've helped them a ton, and they got insulted, I've done it myself and gotten yelled at

some players are simply just too lazy to bother to do anything but get carried through content they shouldn't get carried through because people are afraid to speak up and call out those lazy players, from my experience, and lately, it's gotten worse, it feels like
I apologize for going off on a sorta off-topic tangent, but gosh, I've been so insanely unlucky in my roulettes and dungeons lately, it's genuinely frustrating, should probably post this rant into TFDF instead of here, though, guess I'll do it tomorrow after I wake up lmao

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

toxicity in this game has made a massive spike since we started getting a huge influx of WoW refugees here. Coincidence...?

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pulling wall-to-wall has been the norm since arr. don't put this on the wow refugees.
if you want to practice tanking slowly, trusts and squadrons should be your go to, then when you go into DF dungeons give your party a heads up that youre new and nervous.

I'll trade you PLD for DRG

pretty sure in every game out there, paladin is always portray as stalwart wall so being tank seems natural choice.

as for the "toxic" experience, its all about luck i guess? i mean one day you can get the best pug party and moment later you got absolute worst pug party so its all everyday routine stuff.

and i dont want to be "offensive" or anything but... remember, you are the tank, THE tank, wherever you want to pull 1 mob only or the whole mob all the way to boss SHOULD be up to you, if someone keep crying too slow then i say "well bad luck for you, i happen to be this kind of tank"

if dps leave so what? you can get dps in a matter of seconds, healer leave? oh whole party leave? so what? you are TANK, you got vip instant queue treatment.

i play dps majority of the time, so i always follow whatever tank want, they want 1 mob only? sure, they want aggro the whole mobs? no problem

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

if you want to practice tanking slowly, trusts and squadrons should be your go to, then when you go into DF dungeons give your party a heads up that youre new and nervous.

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Id say this is the most sensible post here.
Even though FFXIV is a game where you work with other players, they have also given us a means to do some content by ourselves. Take advantage of it.

Why is it always hrothgar?

Where’s Titanmen when we need ‘em…

Tanking is the easiest thing in the game you literally just aoe and use a CD....your dps is 1-2-3 How can you mess that up?

Reading through this thread

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...3275814182.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Where’s Titanmen when we need ‘em…

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https://c.tenor.com/TrNwMw8FQBgAAAAC/avatar-vanish.gif

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Tanking is the easiest thing in the game you literally just aoe and use a CD....your dps is 1-2-3 How can you mess that up?

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Spoken like someone that doesn't tank. While I would agree that tanking in FFXIV has been dumbed down immensely, simply not facing a mob in the right direction can cause massive trouble for your party. And you'll absolutely hear all about it from the other players if you do.

What fascinates me about this thread is the amount of DPS players telling tanks that they are just whiny entitled brats who have it incredibly easy...yet don't play tanks and wonder why their queues are always waiting on tanks.

Weird that the easiest role to play that is totally treated super fair by everyone else is the least played one. I wonder why...

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Neither does being a whiney brat and have everything centred around me, me, me. But then the world has been growing gradually more selfish and "look at me" over the last few decades sadly. Sorry but in terms of the game, DPS are expendable and can be easily replaced, healers and tanks not so much but I wonder if you would enjoy waiting 15-20 minutes for a tank depending on the time of day.

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Tanks are completely expendable. You don't need a tank to finish any of the dungeons in the entire game. Moreover, if a tank isn't pulling wall to wall, he's completely useless to a party because literally everyone, be it a healer or another dps, can tank single pulls/single groups.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Spoken like someone that doesn't tank. While I would agree that tanking in FFXIV has been dumbed down immensely, simply not facing a mob in the right direction can cause massive trouble for your party. And you'll absolutely hear all about it from the other players if you do.

What fascinates me about this thread is the amount of DPS players telling tanks that they are just whiny entitled brats who have it incredibly easy...yet don't play tanks and wonder why their queues are always waiting on tanks.

Weird that the easiest role to play that is totally treated super fair by everyone else is the least played one. I wonder why...

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Yes, because facing an enemy away from the party and making sure it's butt isn't against the wall/in lava (if it even has a butt) is so difficult. The game even does your work for you nowadays since bosses will often rush back or teleport to the center of an arena to execute mechanics. And don't even get me started on single pulling tanks that act like they have bones of glass and skin of paper, fragile little primadonnas that'll throw a hissy fit if someone so much as suggests that it's okay to pull more than one group at a time.

What fascinates me about these kinds of threads are the amount of cowardly tanks that are dead set on going against the tank fantasy, namely throwing yourself into an entire horde of enemies without a care in the world and coming out on top. Then they wonder why DPS are running ahead of them and Healers are rescuing them into packs of mobs.

You wanna know the real reason why people prefer to play DPS instead of tanks? Because they're piss boring, that's why.

My only complaint about the job is that it should have called Knight instead of 'paladin'.

Only 4 posts and the WoW card was played already. Impressive.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

You wanna know the real reason why people prefer to play DPS instead of tanks? Because they're piss boring, that's why.

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Its because of the same symptom as wow faces. Tanks get blamed on most. And this DPS behaviour is only a confirmation on that. Its not because the tank is boring, for someone who likes tanking, this 'i can just dive in' behaviour is what makes them interesting.

For some people healer is boring because you entirely rely on your team to do anything in the first place, but thats not what makes healing interesting. The actual problem is that it first needs the other team members to take more risk, and this option for risk is simply missing in most dungeons.

This is also caused by the way dungeons are balanced. Put a too low ilvl and there is no point to gear up. Put a too high ilvl and players will steamroll it every time. Put a high ilvl and balance it to that ilvl will cause many players to struggle without the required gear. And add too many versions of those dungeons and it starts to become a confusing mess (as after all, you need to name each of them in a clear way). At least for that last part i can come up with a solution, like for example naming them like: Satasha (hard+), where the + marks the max ilvl of lvl50 and sets a hard cap on that, while enemies values are just scaled to that gear (the dungeon is otherwise just the same as the regular hard one). But yeah, rewards would still need adjustment here in order to keep it rewarding (which if you are maxed out, isnt realy possible). Thats where the real issue is. Once dungeons are balanced, tanks no longer have to rush, as that will just backfire.

If the DPS are not doing their rotation properly, or single targeting, you can bet I'll pull single or double at max, and I don't care if they cry about it.

And I am a habitual wall puller.

It's not just the tank's fault every time, just like it's not the tank's choice every time. Pull style is a group effort.

It is just how it is in FF14. There is no Mythic type difficulty so most people treat dungeons like a chore they have to do on a check list, hence the pull pull pull mentality of just get it over with philosophy. Tanks have enough mitigation that there is no legitimate excuse for not pulling door to door and healers have far more than enough oGCD abilities to handle just about anything these days.

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Originally Posted by Majestic001

Tanks are completely expendable. You don't need a tank to finish any of the dungeons in the entire game. Moreover, if a tank isn't pulling wall to wall, he's completely useless to a party because literally everyone, be it a healer or another dps, can tank single pulls/single groups.

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And if you got you pull you tank, tank in your party, continue anyway and prove they're useless without wall pull.

Try savage. As a Tank you arent allowed to roll on items cause DPS is all that matters and as soon as the DPS are geared they suddenly got no time for raiding anymore.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

Why is everyone here so angry at each other?

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People hurt. Hurt causes pain, pain turns to anger, anger comes out in discussion. This is literally our world since we've all been "online" - but more accurately since we created social media and started carrying a connection to social media on our hips. No one feels they need to suppress pain or anger or any emotion that they would normally suppress face-to-face in real life. And this, itself, is because many people teach their children that "online doesn't matter," or "it's only the internet, behave how you want," or the parents themselves are racked with pain and anger and that pain seeped into their spawn.

We also have seven-year-olds watching beheadings and other hardcore material on various websites. That ain't good for human development.

Realize also that video game forums are largely populated with younger folks that, at times, can have a hard time expressing themselves. You also have the whole "teenage angst" thing going on for many. One would have a much different experience on a forum about books or health or something similar - anything that isn't A) aimed at children, and B) a game that frustrates people.

We weren't like this pre-#socialmedia. Why? Because if you had a complaint or problem or you verbally expressed your pain pre-#socialmedia, it only fell on the ears of your siblings, family, or real-world friends, which amounted to, what, ten people? Maybe? More likely five or six; one yelled at their brother and then bitched to their four closest friends.

Was the pain still present? Of course -- the pain has been present for time immemorial. But the way we handled it... the way we interacted with others when we disagreed or felt pain - that has changed drastically. No one, and I mean NO ONE ever used to walk up to random folks on the sidewalk and try to tell them how to behave or why their problems weren't valid or just to belittle and bully the person in general. Now, though, people "virtually" do this all day, and it's really sad human behavior.

One day we will get it, inevitably, and start behaving online as we do in person. It's far off, though... looking at society today with its pre-occupation with which box each individual fits in, and the nonsense ideals we perpetuate because we "read it on Reddit" - I'd say it's thirty or fifty or a hundred years off.

We used to physically whip people when we didn't like their ideas, before that we burned them, and before that we just came out of our caves and hit our neighbors over the head with clubs if we didn't agree with them. We moved past that... maybe we will move past this.

Ain't gonna be in my lifetime, though. Take one look at online angst. It's gonna take decades of education and changing viewpoints to even begin to gain a basic understanding of how we should be behaving online (which is sad, actually, because a few of us do get it, already.)

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

No other role has you babysitting a bunch of children.

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All I will say is this particular statement is wildly inaccurate. Any role can and will have to deal with this. As a healer main yourself you should know healers deal with this as well. Hell even more knowledgeable dps can have struggles with this when it comes to people in the other roles.

I play tank with Trusts... easier and more fun that way.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

So I'm experiencing what it is like to be a tank and I have to say to all the tanks out there;

"I am sorry but you must have the patience of a saint"

Honestly, it is probably the role that gets the most abuse in the game. If you want to go slower because you are still learning how to tank and interrupt abilities, you get yelled at by DPS.

If you want to pull one group at a time, you get yelled at...

Its such a toxic experience, I am not surprised the Roulette wants tanks most of the time.

I wanted to level a Paladin because they have the coolest armour (In my opinion) but the toxic nature of tanking has REALLY put me off levelling one. The toxicity in this game has made a massive spike since we started getting a huge influx of WoW refugees here. Coincidence...?

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we really need dual talent specialization like WoW

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

we really need dual talent specialization like WoW

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how quickly people forget the arcanist jank

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

we really need dual talent specialization like WoW

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What's the point when you can just create a new job?

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Neither does being a whiney brat and have everything centred around me, me, me. But then the world has been growing gradually more selfish and "look at me" over the last few decades sadly. Sorry but in terms of the game, DPS are expendable and can be easily replaced, healers and tanks not so much but I wonder if you would enjoy waiting 15-20 minutes for a tank depending on the time of day.

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this is the most accidentally funny thing ever

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Neither does being a whiney brat and have everything centred around me, me, me. But then the world has been growing gradually more selfish and "look at me" over the last few decades sadly. Sorry but in terms of the game, DPS are expendable and can be easily replaced, healers and tanks not so much but I wonder if you would enjoy waiting 15-20 minutes for a tank depending on the time of day.

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Hrothgar player moment

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

So I'm experiencing what it is like to be a tank and I have to say to all the tanks out there;

"I am sorry but you must have the patience of a saint"

Honestly, it is probably the role that gets the most abuse in the game. If you want to go slower because you are still learning how to tank and interrupt abilities, you get yelled at by DPS.

If you want to pull one group at a time, you get yelled at...

Its such a toxic experience, I am not surprised the Roulette wants tanks most of the time.

I wanted to level a Paladin because they have the coolest armour (In my opinion) but the toxic nature of tanking has REALLY put me off levelling one. The toxicity in this game has made a massive spike since we started getting a huge influx of WoW refugees here. Coincidence...?

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There hasn't been any sort of toxic spike. Big pulls have been the standard since ARR; the WoW refugee wave hasn't changed this in any way. Also, I am pretty sure it is the healers that get the most abuse.

I also definitely do not have the patience of a saint; considering how I just go for big pulls to try to get dungeons done as quickly as possible.

If the other people in a DF group want me to single pull, I would probably tell them to just kick me for difference in play style to avoid any conflict escalating and so I can go and find another group that matches me better. I want to be able to pull big for faster runs.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

As far as I know, its a bannable offense and I think SE should crack down on this behaviour considerably. There is a reason its banned and you shouldn't ignore rules just because you personally don't like them.

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If they really did this, then they would forever ruin the raiding scene. Parsers are a vital part of the raiding scene, always have been and always will be. It is only bannable if you outright state in game that you are using it; you won't get banned if you streamed the game with a parser active for example. People will get banned for harassment before they will get banned for using a parser, because the spirit of the rule is not parser bad, it is to punish people who are using parses as an excuse to harass people.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

What fascinates me about this thread is the amount of DPS players telling tanks that they are just whiny entitled brats who have it incredibly easy...yet don't play tanks and wonder why their queues are always waiting on tanks.

Weird that the easiest role to play that is totally treated super fair by everyone else is the least played one. I wonder why...

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I see you set up some surveillance system to know who plays what classes and with what frequency, to know who plays tank and who not.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

No, that is simply not true. No other role has you babysitting a bunch of children that are constantly whining for you to "go faster" which heavily increases your chances to make mistakes. As a healer main, I have never told my tank to pull more then they feel capable of just to get the dungeon finished a couple minutes faster. It is done, when its done and I wish the DPS had the same maturity.

This is the problem when we've had an influx of the WoW playerbase (which tends to be younger then the core FFXIV playerbase). Its why this game had such a wonderful community for so much longer as the game appealed to an older, more mature playerbase.

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If you think this has anything to do with WoW influx, you have no idea what you're talking about. We've been doing wall-to-wall since 2.0.

Have you not played tank in XIV until now? This is literally how it's been since the game came out, everyone wants to go fast, everyone wants efficiency. It's boring as a dps to attack 1-3 mobs at a time and as a healer there's almost nothing to heal and as a tank you can just sleep through pulls, pretending like your defensive cooldowns are just for decoration. Also about thinking that tanks are irreplaceable, just the other day had a cranky tank in Zot, got called out for playing like crap, they throw a temper tantrum and leave at the last boss with "have fun waiting for a new tank", new tank arrives in 5 seconds. He sure got us.