Has the WoW crowd taken over now?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

25% of all players max level players at the time had a no-echo clear logged on e5s. So that 'not even 1/100th' number is just straight up a lie.

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I'm gonna clue you in to something about FFLogs that might hurt your feelings.

100% of the people who have ever logged an attempt of E5S do savage.

It's not WoW players. Its just more people which equals more possibility for more shitty people to be in the mix. We were doing clear for P2S yesterday and a guy joined a supposed clear party saying he just wants to clear. (Note: everyone else was there for the clear, normally you join a clear party to clear, duh) And he started shittalking literally everyone, saying we won't clear with this setup (we had 3 ranged). Then, after first fail he left then he re-entered few seconds later to say we suck and left again.

And when he left we just moved on and did the clear without him ^.^

This happens regardless if someone was a WoW palyer or not, if it bothers you just report it, or ignore and move on to pay attention and your time to people who are not like this.

I thought this was about Duty Finder at first, in which case I would be a little worried and mad, but this is legit just how Party Finder has always been. Heck it's the way almost all raid tiers are in others games too.

i mean... if you join a farm group you should be able to do the fight. mostakes can happen so you only get kicked the second time. isnt that nice? if you cant do it... go and join a practice group. one kill doesnt mean people are ready for farming

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

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Lol, I can't believe I'm finding a post here of all places blaming those dang dirty LFR heroes. It's just bait, it really is. You know Mythic raiders who played since before ShB, I know multiple Mythic raiders who started playing in the exodus or whatever it's called. I barely played WoW six months myself, am I too be squeezed into a box too

Edit to mention my friends are just as militant against WoW, just don't like posting it everywhere across forums.

PFs like this have always been around. Stop blaming WoW players every time you see something you don't like in game. Great community by the way.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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Report the ones with bannable offences ie the parse requirement. Ignore the rest. WOW crowd has been here from the start in 2010, as most of us are just MMO gamers. But if you squelch the toxic element fast they will learn, if you don't they will persist.

No they haven’t. It’s always been like this. Welcome to being caught up on current content for once. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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guys this is obviously a troll thread, just report for WoW hate speech and move on

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I'm gonna clue you in to something about FFLogs that might hurt your feelings.

100% of the people who have ever logged an attempt of E5S do savage.

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If you want to clue me in on something you should have that clue yourself first. 25% of all max level players at the time. Now there are of course groups who dont upload their logs but that is only increasing the number of people who cleared. The person compiling those stats is comparing fflogs data against lodestone accounts.

Original poster - you have only to look at this forum to tell you the answer.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Luna

I haven't done party finder at all recently. I was looking forward to trying the new savage, but most party finder descriptions are like what you posted. It's really disgusting. I only saw a single one so far that was chill. Yet no one would join.

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So what does that tell you about "people"? People wants to be carried. Why joining a chill fresh prog while I can just bamboozle a party 2 mechanic ahead of me?

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It's a huge joke that there were even party finder ads telling people to know the mechs when it hadn't even been out for 5 hours.

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Maybe because those people had been playing since the server is up, and would like to continue with others who playing at the same pace instead of spending another 5 hours making zero new progress with fresh prog. I mean ... I don't even get your complain.

- If you don't like a PF description, don't join.
- If you don't see a PF that suit you, make your own ... but like you said in the first part, people probably won't join such party.

Jerk for the most part, is what entitled people call the one ahead of them. Frankly this will become more common. I kinda already expect this when SE announce the you can't hurt my fragile feeling TOS. Now people just put up their own TOS up front.

For the record, yesterday I joint a "3mistake = kick" party that was slighly ahead of me, and after making 3 mistake I was promptly kicked. Unlike the people who complained here, I thought it was well deserved of me. I joint another party a little progress behind me and was able to get more prog out of that. Life gets a lot easier to get alone if you just put your entitlement away.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I would argue savage is little more than an after thought to keep the sweaty ones busy. Yoshi P personally wants a hardcore, difficult engaging game, but has admitted he knows his audience doesnt want that. They know who their audience is.

Queue times were definitely more through the roof when new MSQ story released then when savage released. But honestly, thats an equally poor measure of the games health as much as content creator engagement is. And yes, I would definitely prefer, and believe the game would be better suited for more casual content. Emotes, RP settings, glam, more relic grind style quests, even more story and out of combat things to do.

I think the most generous estimate I was able to find a few weeks ago for the typical savage completion rate for a current tier was around 25%. Honestly, I think that is pretty unlikely itself, or skewed somehow that it would even be nearly that high. Why waste so many resources on something the minority even participates in?

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Savage is very popular in japan. Clearing/engagement there is 35%. Savage is just low on eu and crystal DC on na.

WoW players are a net negative to the playerbase because they're just here for an "MMO" fix, not a "Final Fantasy" fix. The more "Final Fantasy" and the less "MMO" the game is, the better.

But nothing is stopping you from starting your own party.

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Originally Posted by Falar

WoW players are a net negative to the playerbase because they're just here for an "MMO" fix, not a "Final Fantasy" fix. The more "Final Fantasy" and the less "MMO" the game is, the better.

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I was gonna write a serious response to this but actually it's just kinda funny
This whole thread, and this slew of "WoW players all suck" nonsense is just such a yikes
The bad take troll threads were bad but I'm starting to think this is worse

Overall ingame no but I have been seeing some increased toxicity in the forums that does attribute to a subset of the WoW playerbase regardless of what anyone says otherwise. It's much more prominent that a lot of people are complaining about every single thing imaginable.

But that's a given since the MMO giant that is WoW is still engaging in it's slow moving death spiral because the company and it's devs don't give a rat's ass about it's players and consistently create problems to solve other problems and just end up having more problems and expect the players to beta test their game without pay all while having them pay a sub fee as well as being P2W through WoW tokens as gold in WoW saves you a lot of time and effort. Similar to most eastern MMO game models.

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Originally Posted by Mezzoforte

Savage is very popular in japan. Clearing/engagement there is 35%. Savage is just low on eu and crystal DC on na.

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I think people severely underestimate the importance of meta to a game staying power. SW:TOR had a truck load of story content at launch, probably more so then FF14 in its entire 10 years of existence, and they were also better quality wise. Not only that, the story of SW:TOR actually is fun to replay again. Yet with the raid scene so lack luster the game has almost no presence in the meta, only took a couple years for the most invested MMO to be on life support.

People who think casual/story contents can carry a subscription base MMO either don't remember or don't know about SW:TOR. There is a reason while stuffs like Ultimate is a boon to the game despite the level of engagement is very low. Believe it or not, ten of thousand if not hundred of thousands players enjoy watching ultimate fights despite never setting foot in there themselves.

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Originally Posted by Falar

WoW players are a net negative to the playerbase because they're just here for an "MMO" fix, not a "Final Fantasy" fix. The more "Final Fantasy" and the less "MMO" the game is, the better.

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NGL I came for the MMO fix, stayed for the FF fix.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

I was gonna write a serious response to this but actually it's just kinda funny
This whole thread, and this slew of "WoW players all suck" nonsense is just such a yikes
The bad take troll threads were bad but I'm starting to think this is worse

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It's easier to blame your problem on someone else then admit your own. I played WoW from BC to Cata, and have been playing this game since 2.0. I see no difference in the 2 in game community. People just like projecting.


I never hang around the WoW forum back then 'cause I wasn't really an internet person. But these days I much prefer hanging around the FF14 reddit then here. Overthere it looks like a gathering of people who actually enjoy the game. At least half of this forum has always been a collection of people who I think being forced to play the game at gun point, and that has been the case long before the WoW players got here.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

I think people severely underestimate the importance of meta to a game staying power. SW:TOR had a truck load of story content at launch, probably more so then FF14 in its entire 10 years of existence, and they were also better quality wise. Not only that, the story of SW:TOR actually is fun to replay again. Yet with the raid scene so lack luster the game has almost no presence in the meta, only took a couple years for the most invested MMO to be on life support.

People who think casual/story contents can carry a subscription base MMO either don't remember or don't know about SW:TOR. There is a reason while stuffs like Ultimate is a boon to the game despite the level of engagement is very low. Believe it or not, ten of thousand if not hundred of thousands players enjoy watching ultimate fights despite never setting foot in there themselves.

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I respect your opinion, I played SW:TOR as well at launch (I purposely picked the Republic, btw, underdog faction was a lot of fun) I would respectfully disagree with your stating that it had more story at launch than this game's entire 10 year history.

This game has a well-deserved reputation for its story, i also liked SW:TOR's story and their equivalent storylines for the jobs (sage for example). Each does a very good job in its way, and for that reason it's a good idea to look at other games and benefit, just as this game drew its inspiration from WOW for some concepts.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

It's easier to blame your problem on someone else then admit your own. I played WoW from BC to Cata, and have been playing this game since 2.0. I see no difference in the 2 in game community. People just like projecting.


I never hang around the WoW forum back then 'cause I wasn't really an internet person. But these days I much prefer hanging around the FF14 reddit then here. Overthere it looks like a gathering of people who actually enjoy the game. At least half of this forum has always been a collection of people who I think being forced to play the game at gun point, and that has been the case long before the WoW players got here.

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I think it's because people remember the old school Ventrillo freak out videos, and think ALL WoW players were like that. In reality ALL MMO communities have those elitists.

For the OP, It's their Party in the PF...that's what PF is for. If they were doing this in Duty Finder, report them.

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Originally Posted by Falar

WoW players are a net negative to the playerbase because they're just here for an "MMO" fix, not a "Final Fantasy" fix. The more "Final Fantasy" and the less "MMO" the game is, the better.

But nothing is stopping you from starting your own party.

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What if I, a former WoW player of 10+ years, enjoy FFXIV as both an MMO and an FF game? It is possible to enjoy both.

On a more serious note, I find the whole not using a DPS meter thing a bit shit. Do people just them to be toxic? Yes. Do they also have a valid use? Yes. The harder content in this game (extreme, savage and ultimate content) is designed for a higher level of gameplay in mind, especially earlier in the content cycle when you're not outgearing it and don't have the echo to boost performance either. Damage meters (and logs for the matter) are important tools to analyse performance and work out what's going wrong if you're not clearing.

Just because people use these tools to be a bit "toxic", doesn't mean they are bad. Likewise, the party finder is just a tool to help people make and populate groups, it's not a mandate of play style. I've noticed a fair amount of "gatekeeping" since I've started playing FFXIV in which there's an expectation that you have to play the "FF way" or you're playing wrong which ironically is a parallel of forced community expectations in WoW IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Johners

On a more serious note, I find the whole not using a DPS meter thing a bit shit. Do people just them to be toxic? Yes. Do they also have a valid use? Yes. The harder content in this game (extreme, savage and ultimate content) is designed for a higher level of gameplay in mind, especially earlier in the content cycle when you're not outgearing it and don't have the echo to boost performance either. Damage meters (and logs for the matter) are important tools to analyse performance and work out what's going wrong if you're not clearing.

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In my experience, I see far more people being toxic toward parse than the people using parse is toxic. Just like in real life I feel there are far more people who are intolerance toward intolerance then people who are actually intolerance.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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Welcome to FFXIV!

Shocker; a thread blaming WoW players on stuff again.

More players = higher % chance of meeting these kinds of people. Has nothing and never have had anything to do with WoW players.

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

Shocker; a thread blaming WoW players on stuff again.

More players = higher % chance of meeting these kinds of people. Has nothing and never have had anything to do with WoW players.

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Both games have their own toxicity that are painfully obvious in both communities, it's just toxic in different areas but still presents itself as this weird form of gatekeeping.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

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That's a lot of emotional knee-jerk about LFR for someone who only played 6 months.

It's just an observation about how people with less than 2 years of playtime are now complaining about how week 1 PF is mean and terrible for having bare minimum requirements. Almost reminds me of certain people; not an expression of a whole. Hrm. It's chinrubby.

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Originally Posted by Johners

Both games have their own toxicity that are painfully obvious in both communities, it's just toxic in different areas but still presents itself as this weird form of gatekeeping.

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Toxicity has an odd habit of making a home in the places you least expect. I suppose the fact that getting groups together to raid on WoW (with lockouts and time invested as well) being such a hassle forced people to be at least a tiny bit more agreeable. One boss instant load-in instances where every random might as well be a replaceable npc doesn't do much to reinforce being kind and patient.

I have pretty damn good luck in PF and can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen something get super ugly. It happens, but when it does it's baaaaaaaaad.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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Honestly, it's been like that for a lot longer before the WoW crowd. The playerbase swelled so you just see more if it. Last expansion though I saw more "keep salt in the kitchen" comments, and many of them are pretty fun though would be nice not to waste hours of your time without a clear.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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4k DPS in savage probably should be kicked to be honest (assuming no deaths). If people aren't ready for savage then they really shouldn't be in it.

You're on an EU data center and europeans have always seemed far less casual and more interested in DPS and optimization than NA.

There has always been "instakick and X fails = kick" parties since the game began. It's not new. There has always been people frustrated that enrage-prog parties have not cleared for days. Just don't join them if you don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

It's always been like this. I started advertising more strictly because I'm tired of "I only cleared once and didn't manage to pay attention to any mechanics" joining my farm parties and wiping us.

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Those folks should use practice, that's what practice is for, it's what I did after my first clear of Zodiark and Hyda...even though on Hyda I had the fight down pretty much already, just wanted to clean up a few things before jumping into farm groups.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

You're on an EU data center and europeans have always seemed far less casual and more interested in DPS and optimization than NA.

There has always been "instakick and X fails = kick" parties since the game began. It's not new. There has always been people frustrated that enrage-prog parties have not cleared for days. Just don't join them if you don't like it.

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Why I stopped playing on EU years ago, they take it like it's an Esport on some servers and that's just a big nope from me. I have a job y'know, game is a hobby, it's fun, I like optimization and doing great as much as the next person but I'm not gonna dedicate every waking thought to frame perfect dps rotations.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Why I stopped playing on EU years ago, they take it like it's an Esport on some servers and that's just a big nope from me. I have a job y'know, game is a hobby, it's fun, I like optimization and doing great as much as the next person but I'm not gonna dedicate every waking thought to frame perfect dps rotations.

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Like ... it's fine if you want to decide how much time you want to spend or what level of play you want to commit to. But I seriously wish people stop making comment like this ... Don't you understand it's exactly because of comment like this that often time your argument do not deserve much empathy.

Job is something most people have, it has no bearing on how good you can be. Bring up "oh I have a job" or "I have a life" does nothing to make a point. In fact, the only point it would project is you're someone who don't know how to manage your time. I know many people who can afford to barely play a few hours a day and would still blow away the majority of players who no-lifeing on PF all days long.

Again, really, it's perfectly ok to say this is how you want to take your game and this is the level of play you're happy with, you don't need to come up with an excuse for it. Especially one that looks down on others.

Yeah bro wtf? Those people creating their own parties and setting upfront and clear expectations? What the heck is wrong with them!? See that's what's wrong with this community, people expecting anything even APPROACHING the bare minimum! It's just downright disrespectful to expect me to put in even the slightest amount of effort when I join the party that you took the time to create and lead! And then having the N E R V E to expect me to create my own party to fit my needs and attract like minded people? Just want everything don't cha?

Some people are just so entitled smh, gcbtw, bcbtw.

I can compare EU and NA parties since I played for a long time on NA (3-4 years) and now back on EU and yes, the EU is less casual in terms of PF groups and given groups exactly specify what part on the fight they are and you will get kicked if you are sandbagging in a farm party and that is the correct way, we have our own schedules and we are not required to handhold you just because you play the same game as us.

I've been in a "Farm" party where we got a 14% Enrage on Zodiark and since it was a 4-DPS premade, Both me and the other Tank left, so did the healers. We are joining Farm parties for a quick in, quick out style of kill, be it just for one kill. I did not join a Farm party to teach people how to do the fight.

I took a break from doing Hydaelyn EX for like 4 days since I did pretty much 30 runs in one go. I joined a Practice party just to brush up things and after 2 runs I returned to farm parties.

If you are joining a Farm party, you are expected to have the fight down pretty much perfect, sure people make mistakes, and no one cares if you die once, but if you keep failing the same mechanic over and over again, you will get floored.

Why is it the most popular threads on this forum typically deal with WoW? There are no such popular posts on WoW general forum related to FFXIV. It's like people have so weird obsession with WoW that they need to bash WoW or its players every day. In the end all you do is drive WoW players who want to become part of FFXIV community further away.

No, this is just the same rule as the "vocal minority" people doing savage raids aren't the majority :) Just that of course some of the early PF / savage raids will ultimately ask for a lot of skill in a particular area, and that's normal, you are in min ilvl doing SAVAGE raids. It will be demanding at 1st month of the raids out there. PF is made to "ask" for expectations from the people creating it, if you don't adhere to the expectations set, make yours or don't enter that one, there are plenty others. Simple.

As someone else said, it was the same at heavensward years before "wow refugee exodus". here's your answer.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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LOL are you new to raids in ff14? Was like this for ever. People was a bit more discreet about it. But mostly it's how this need to be. If you don't even do 4k dps what are you good for? At this point people carry you. Now if you don't like that people want a working party that can do the content start a new party. Then you add any one and fail all day but have fun. I really don't get why people think others are obligated to party them and band over for them as well. There is no partisipasi trophy.

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Originally Posted by Aurikai

Why is it the most popular threads on this forum typically deal with WoW? There are no such popular posts on WoW general forum related to FFXIV. It's like people have so weird obsession with WoW that they need to bash WoW or its players every day. In the end all you do is drive WoW players who want to become part of FFXIV community further away.

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It's been like this for years and got worse as the term "WoW refugee" first appeared.
Someone behaved poorly in a random dungeon? Probably a WoW player.
Someone uses a parser? Damn those dirty WoW players.
Someone expects the level of competence required to clear difficult content? Definitely a toxic WoW player.
Someone doesn't like something about the game? Oh, go back to WoW already, don't make our perfect FFXIV into a WoW clone!

And now an army of dirty WoW players invaded the holy sanctuary of perfect harmony, every problem clearly comes from WoW players because the saintly FFXIV community is above such lowly things as parser, problems, toxicity etc.
The obsession is hilarious. I've never met a MMO community that spends so much time constantly side-eyeing another MMO and its players.

Love it!!! Most people are using them parsers anyway, but rage when someone states a minimum dps. Moaning that players are asking for it, but using the same thing to complain to square about jOb BaLaNcE....

The WoW crowd has, by and large, peacefully assimilated into FFXIV's culture and are happy here. The stuff on display in this thread has always been part of XIV.