FFXIV Girls only discord server

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Discrimination & Systemic Discrimination are not the same thing.

You're talking about systemic discrimination, I'm talking about discrimination.

Don't conflate the two.

Rules discriminate against those who do not follow them.

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So basically you don't understand the definition of discrimination then.

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Originally Posted by FedoraTheExplorer

So basically you don't understand the definition of discrimination then.

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Co-opting and rebranding a word does not change the definition of it.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

no
it is not
lmao

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It was up until the recent years.
Just because Tumblr science got picked up by panderers.
Doesn't make it true.

It's still very heavily subjective.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

no
it is not
lmao

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Yes it is lmao

As an aside, a not insignificant amount of people simply want to be left alone to do their own thing. I don't think everybody necessarily needs to be invited to join absolutely everything in existence - because such an approach prevents quite a lot of people from getting support that is custom tailored to what they desire.

If a group of women on the internet want to hide away in their own little Discord server then I think that's perfectly acceptable. I see advertisements for women only groups quite often - for coffee mornings and the like.

I know women who have been horribly abused and as part of their recovery, they needed to retreat into their own little support bubbles until they built up the confidence to interact with the wider world once more.

It's an approach that isn't going to work for everybody, though it works for some people and the last thing survivors of abuse need is to be burdened with problems that simply do not concern them.

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Originally Posted by FedoraTheExplorer

Buddy discrimination is discrimination whether its on the Internet or not.

I think you need to clear your head because all you give me is word salad. Go outside, get some fresh air and touch some grass.

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You keep saying word salad, like you can't follow basic sentences. Discrimination in what amounts to a hobbyist space is not equal to discrimination elsewhere.

Also, it's winter and all the grass is dead.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Co-opting and rebranding a word does not change the definition of it.

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There's a difference between common and academic parlance; most of the conversations of systemic discrimination, racism, etc fall into the latter. It's frankly pointless to talk about these issues with people who won't engage with them on that level, and you probably shouldn't bother for your own sake.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

It was up until the recent years.
Just because Tumblr science got picked up by panderers.
Doesn't make it true.

It's still very heavily subjective.

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ok Dr. Dunning-Kruger, whatever you say :D

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As an aside, a not insignificant amount of people simply want to be left alone to do their own thing. I don't think everybody necessarily needs to be invited to join absolutely everything in existence - because such an approach prevents quite a lot of people from getting support that is custom tailored to what they desire.

If a group of women on the internet want to hide away in their own little Discord server then I think that's perfectly acceptable. I see advertisements for women only groups quite often - for coffee mornings and the like.

I know women who have been horribly abused and as part of their recovery, they needed to retreat into their own little support bubbles until they built up the confidence to interact with the wider world once more.

It's an approach that isn't going to work for everybody, though it works for some people and the last thing survivors of abuse need is to be burdened with problems that simply do not concern them.

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If that would've been so easy for people to understand we wouldn't have this long of a thread. Many people said that here before but some people just can't let it go without their unwanted counsel and opinion policising

Yeah hard pass.

The gender problems are a big ball of issues in of themselves, but trying to put their hands in other people’s profits is nonesense.

OP if you truly believe in this cause, it should be entirely voluntary on all parties. If streamers are making money it’s none of your business unless you provide services the steamer actively wants to pay you for. Shame on you for taking by advantage of others.

As a girl, this somehow feels so strange to me.
Perhaps its because I had bad experiences with both guys and girls on the internet. Probably cause I played other more pvp based games on semi competitive level. I also had workplaces where girls pretend to be your friends then backstab you. (I worked at a Big Four and boi oh boi...)

Again, not saying only girls, boys had their own ways. And not all of them. There are always kind people, but they don't make it in these kind of environments. They just fall out and go do something else that is more safe for their mental health.

However, if there is a group of girls who want to do this, then why not?

Here's an interesting question to ponder.

Say there is a ginger-haired group and blonde-haired group. As we all know both get made fun of but in different ways, different experiences they had to deal with.

Now you have Subject-A who is blonde naturally and had to deal with blonde jokes. Subject-B natural ginger, had to deal with ginger jokes.

A dyes their hair ginger, B dyes their hair blonde. They both try to join the opposite group.

Are they to suddenly be accepted now that they fit in? Do they suddenly know the hardships of dealing with the type of teasing they got?

Now apply it to girls-only and boys-only.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

Here's an interesting question to ponder.

Say there is a ginger-haired group and blonde-haired group. As we all know both get made fun of but in different ways, different experiences they had to deal with.

Now you have Subject-A who is blonde naturally and had to deal with blonde jokes. Subject-B natural ginger, had to deal with ginger jokes.

A dyes their hair ginger, B dyes their hair blonde. They both try to join the opposite group.

Are they to suddenly be accepted now that they fit in? Do they suddenly know the hardships of dealing with the type of teasing they got?

Now apply it to girls-only and boys-only.

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Imo in this particular situation the girls need to set up their own group.
However if the group didn't know they weren't natural then it is none of their business as long as they have similar experiences and aren't dismissive.
Because largely being made of of because your hair is blonde or ginger is still you getting your hair made fun of.
It would make more sense in the analogy if one girl was getting made fun of because of her hair and the other girl was getting made fun of because of her nails.
But that still falls under you being made fun of because of your body.

So really it just comes down to how your group to discriminate who is allowed in. Personal preference.

I think the direct real life example of this would be people who present as male can be in the boy scouts and vice versa but having people who present as girls in the boyscouts or who present as boys in the girlscouts isn't the same.
Then there's also the discussion of distinction where in does this line stop because there are biological differences that can't be changed, so can feminine presenting but biologically male people be allowed in the female bathrooms or be allowed to participate in female sports, or be allowed in females prisons.

I think it's a very convoluted issue where in no solution/fix should be put in place without taking it to its natural conclusion first. Until then things like unisex bathrooms, groups, and sports are the way to go for this particular issue.
Transgressing on something already in place instead of making your own is not the way.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Imo in this particular situation the girls need to set up their own group.
However if the group didn't know they weren't natural then it is none of their business as long as they have similar experiences and aren't dismissive.
Because largely being made of of because your hair is blonde or ginger is still you getting your hair made fun of.
It would make more sense in the analogy if one girl was getting made fun of because of her hair and the other girl was getting made fun of because of her nails.

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I love how you defaulted it in to girls even though I just said subject.

It shows we have assumed 'gender' for things simply as being teased for hair.

Assumptions you can't just take out of peoples minds.

But yes, your answer was correct, make their own group. That's when we get people that NEED to be in everything though or it's suddenly discrimination and they're going to start a mob because you didn't want to include them.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

I love how you defaulted it in to girls even though I just said subject.

It shows we have assumed 'gender' for things simply as being teased for hair.

Assumptions you can't just take out of peoples minds.

But yes, your answer was correct, make their own group. That's when we get people that NEED to be in everything though or it's suddenly discrimination and they're going to start a mob because you didn't want to include them.

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Yeah I would always assume people being made fun of for their hair are girls, boys & girls don't make fun of other boys hair unless they're balding, they make fun of girls hair.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Yeah I would always assume people being made fun of for their hair are girls, boys & girls don't make fun of other boys hair unless they're balding, they make fun of girls hair.

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Plenty of guys get made fun of for things like male pattern baldness or facial hair that doesn't look good.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Plenty of guys get made fun of for things like male pattern baldness or facial hair that doesn't look good.

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Yeah they do get made fun of for those things as well as not having enough hair. But in context of hair color I would say a boy could have any hair color and experience less teasing than if they were a girl.
Entirely my subjective opinion of course.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Yeah they do get made fun of for those things as well as not having enough hair. But in context of hair color I would say a boy could have any hair color and experience less teasing than if they were a girl.
Entirely my subjective opinion of course.

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I don't think so... gigner boys are also made fun of... this hair thing is going way off topic honestly and has soon nothing to do with the actual topic.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Plenty of guys get made fun of for things like male pattern baldness or facial hair that doesn't look good.

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Being made fun of for being bald is the polar opposite of being made fun of for your hair though =)

I identify as the one true warrior of light. I will report anyone who disagrees and they will be banned.

I identify as brad pitt, so everyone around me has to introduce me as the sexiest man of the year. Also, I want alimony from Angelina.

I identify as my toon. I'm now going to go do quests with a giant axe and I expect everyone around me to offer rewards for my crazy behavior.

What I do not get is we do not have to agree or understand, but by no means do we have to mock others for how they identify. Seems like the movement at the core sparks hurtful behavior towards others which I do not get.

To be honest, I 100% get the wish for a female-only space. I disagree, but you do you. I've seen how some cretins talk to my partner when she plays (all these blokes are self-confessed feminists/allies hilariously enough), so yeah, I get it. The whole voice test thing is bloody hilarious though. I sing, so I can make my voice very feminine when I want to. Likewise, I know a lot of women with deep as hell voices, like Peter Steele I'm telling you. So I could easily pass as a woman whereas my deep voiced woman friends (all female at birth if it even matters) wouldn't. Gets the noggin joggin :3

I'd just like to point out how the joke thread about the boys club has absolutely 0 issues whatsover-and it's not because it's a joke. If it were being serious it'd still have 0 issues, 0 objections, 0 outrage whatsoever. Just a fun little thing to think about. Little cute consistent pattern there.
Rest easy everyone, you fought well.

That doesn't look like a "safe space" at all if you look at the 2nd link and scroll down to October 14th, there's a conversation with a 14 year old that looks a lot like grooming behavior.

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Originally Posted by SahreeYurblu

That doesn't look like a "safe space" at all if you look at the 2nd link and scroll down to October 14th, there's a conversation with a 14 year old that looks a lot like grooming behavior.

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It's discord. Of course there's grooming. It's like being shocked by fake virtue on twitter, or getting a family harassed by identifying the wrong guy as a terrorist on reddit, or being over 60 on facebook. Comes with the territory.

People, especially groups that are more prone to harassment and the like, seeking safe spaces is a definitively okay thing to do, nothing wrong with it.

However, in this particular case it seems like it is done wrongly.

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Originally Posted by SahreeYurblu

That doesn't look like a "safe space" at all if you look at the 2nd link and scroll down to October 14th, there's a conversation with a 14 year old that looks a lot like grooming behavior.

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Going through the links it looks a lot like the stereotypical pettiness, superficial, cess pool of drama one would expect

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Originally Posted by SahreeYurblu

That doesn't look like a "safe space" at all if you look at the 2nd link and scroll down to October 14th, there's a conversation with a 14 year old that looks a lot like grooming behavior.

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I didn't bother with some of the links when I first came here but decided to look at more given what you said. There is one particular part that is very very unsettling to say the least.

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Originally Posted by ThunderGodThor

It's discord. Of course there's grooming. It's like being shocked by fake virtue on twitter, or getting a family harassed by identifying the wrong guy as a terrorist on reddit, or being over 60 on facebook. Comes with the territory.

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You are diminishing a very serious and illegal activity with your flippant response.

No one is saying you should be surprised but your "eh it happens" attitude is alarming.

Yea not touching this thread with a ten foot pole again. What it's promoting is cursed.

Is it just run by a bunch of men trying to get laid?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You are diminishing a very serious and illegal activity with your flippant response.

No one is saying you should be surprised but your "eh it happens" attitude is alarming.

Yea not touching this thread with a ten foot pole again. What it's promoting is cursed.

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Joking about sick stuff is a way of coping with sick stuff. Believe me, it irks me as much as anyone else that it happens. I'm simply saying it's not surprising. Weird to see virtue signalling on the ff forums though, well played.

Question, anyone willing to start an alt-girl only discord?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Question, anyone willing to start an alt-girl only discord?

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I’m down. So long as it’s inclusive and doesn’t force voice verification, and the mods arent forced to have at least 40 messages in the server a day!

So basically a server for men to groom alt women lmfao

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Originally Posted by RatKing

So basically a server for men to groom alt women lmfao

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I mean. If you view inclusivity as grooming that’s on you, might wanna evaluate your inner thought process if that’s the conclusion you jump to.

I’m of a mind that people can police creepiness without turning women away just because they don’t fit some subpar definition.

I don't see the issue from wanting to create a discord exclusively for females that play FFXIV, why did this turn into a bigger issue than it needed to be?

Are people forgetting there are reasons why bars, gyms and other services are catered towards different groups of people, I know everyone is just trying to do the best for others but some of you take it too far, also I really don't like the fact that the Trans person in those Twitter posts is trying to get people together in order to report a player to get them banned, please don't do that.

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Originally Posted by Glenarn

I don't see the issue from wanting to create a discord exclusively for females that play FFXIV, why did this turn into a bigger issue than it needed to be?

Are people forgetting there are reasons why bars, gyms and other services are catered towards different groups of people, I know everyone is just trying to do the best for others but some of you take it too far, also I really don't like the fact that the Trans person in those Twitter posts is trying to get people together in order to report a player to get them banned, please don't do that.

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The thing is, their verification process is inherently sexist and rooted in the very thing they’re stated to be against. Even dismissing trans issues, this is the equivalent of a bar on women-only nights turning away women because their shoulders are too broad, or their voice is too deep.

Also, even disregarding their Voice verification thing, there’s bigger issues than that at play. Grooming of minors, overworking volunteers, not paying streamers their due share, the list goes on and on. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: there is NOTHING WRONG with wanting to create a safe, inclusive environment for women to feel comfortable in. The wrongness comes from the actions this particular server has taken and continues to take, and the list keeps adding up.

Personally I would never join anything anyone unironically called a 'safe space.' That word just always brings this to mind.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MrTGZSPajI

'So and so only space' has existed for years. But safe space ergh *shudders*

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

Personally I would never join anything anyone unironically called a 'safe space.' That word just always brings this to mind.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MrTGZSPajI

'So and so only space' has existed for years. But safe space ergh *shudders*

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As much as I disagree with you on… practically every single thing you’ve ever said. Yeah. Safe space brings to mind some really negative pictures, and the only people that use it unironically now are those who take advantage of the terms definition to twist it to their own meaning of it.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I’m down. So long as it’s inclusive and doesn’t force voice verification, and the mods arent forced to have at least 40 messages in the server a day!

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How will we verify their alt status?