Burst - Any Plans?

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Originally Posted by Zyph

I watched a thread expand to 12 pages filled with absolutely nothing but rustled jimmies.

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Good for you, and you felt the need to post a useless comment?? cool story bro.

Remove all recast bonuses, Dmg/critical bonuses to combo spells and just give them a DoT or status effect bonus.
Turn Burst into a regular magic spell
Add Manafont 15min for 15secs.

This is an example. If you want a nice 15min ability then balance the rest of the job out.

So after reading this thread...apparently thundara and thundaga do laughable dmg, since burst supposedly does laughable dmg. So what good are you blms? You have no good dmg and your abilities take too much effort. Never inviting blm again, they do laughable dmg. Have fun LFGing for 2 hours.

I like how OP left out key text about burst.
As if BLM needs to be more powerful.

Thunder: 400+ damage
Thundara: 800+ damage (over 1k damage with excrucitate)
Thundaga: 1.5k+ damage possibility with excruciate(sp?).
Burst: Possibility of 1.7k+ damage with low HP and excruciate.

Thunder -> Thundara can be cast every 15 seconds.
If you aren't geared poorly and know how to use your abilities on BLM it's incredibly powerful. It also has the benefit of being a ranged job. So if you aren't special in the head you can basically stand still out of harms way and dish out huge amounts of damage in a short period of time. Never mind the fact that if magic is resisted damage still happens. I have had thundara get resisted and still do 500 damage...lol

There's a reason why BLM gets used so much right now. derp.
>_>;

All the 15 min abilities aren't really that over powered and why would you expect blm to be? Might Strikes and hundred fists are both very underwhelming given they last like 15 sec.

You get extra bust damage with burst that seems pretty good to me and I have blm leveled too.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

So after reading this thread...apparently thundara and thundaga do laughable dmg, since burst supposedly does laughable dmg. So what good are you blms? You have no good dmg and your abilities take too much effort. Never inviting blm again, they do laughable dmg. Have fun LFGing for 2 hours.

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Burst does laughable damage for it's cool-down, Thunder and Thundara are base abilities and are fine as they are. There is no reason for a BLM to use Burst other than to see pretty effects. He might as well continue his Thunder -> Thundara combo, lest waste his time throwing out a Burst. Don't get me wrong; I love Burst's synergy with Convert. It's a great function, but just lacks in its usefulness

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

I like how OP left out key text about burst.
As if BLM needs to be more powerful.

Thunder: 400+ damage
Thundara: 800+ damage (over 1k damage with excrucitate)
Thundaga: 1.5k+ damage possibility with excruciate(sp?).
Burst: Possibility of 1.7k+ damage with low HP and excruciate.

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Are we talking about damage on Star Marmots or something?
This definitely isn't the damage output for any Black Mages I know on Ifrit for example. With double melded gear Black Mages pump out around 200~ Thunder's, 400~ Thundara's and 800~1k Thundaga's, but to use Burst's full capabilities, it requires converting; this, then requires that your WHM doesn't heal you, and you don't get hit via an AoE or Eruptions in the middle of the fight. It's VERY situational and does not seem to have much use in larger fights.

Talking about Garuda. Ifrit can take similar damage. Chimera takes a bit less but still a huge ammount.

Quit trying to downplay my post, which cripples yours, with star marmots. Everyone knows you can hit those for max damage. Noob.

Convert can be used in many situations so long as you think before you convert. I have more problems making WHM's NOT heal me after a convert. LOL

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

Talking about Garuda. Ifrit can take similar damage. Chimera takes a bit less but still a huge ammount.

Quit trying to downplay my post, which cripples yours, with star marmots. Everyone knows you can hit those for max damage. Noob.

Convert can be used in many situations so long as you think before you convert. I have more problems making WHM's NOT heal me after a convert. LOL

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Ahh... You've not heard of a joke before. Never mind.

Thanks for clarifying your target. I've not fought Garuda myself. Not until after this patch.

I have heard of a joke... >_> that's why I replied with a joke.
Sheesh, way to assume I took your joke seriously and then take my joke seriously.

:( Try to make friends and give proper information and look what happens.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

I have heard of a joke... >_> that's why I replied with a joke.
Sheesh, way to assume I took your joke seriously and then take my joke seriously.

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D'awww <3

Onto topic. I've never seen a BLM deal that amount of damage on Ifrit. Even those who are double/triple melded.
I also hear through the rumour mill that INT/MAcc is the only worthwhile route because MAtk and CritRate are broken. Though I have no clarification on this, I would like to find out the truth.

You can reach that level of damage because the Thunder->Thundara combo increases damage a considerable amount.

Thundaga does high damage when it crits, I usually use excruciate(sp?) Before Thundara and it tends to activate on Thundaga.

Burst achieves even higher damage than Thundaga and costs less MP so long as you meet the low HP requirement, I usually burn my MP down to double didgets using Thunder -> Thundara then Convert -> Excruciate -> Necrogenisis -> Burst. You get the most out of your burst as well as recover a good amount of HP all while having MP back from your convert in one go.

I would say that it's requirements for it's high damage output are acceptable and that it being a 15 minute recast is also acceptable.
I usually follow up a Burst combo with a Thundaga combo, it's a very large amount of damage in a very short period of time.

If you have situational awareness using convert isn't as risky as it seems.

Burst is pretty bad but idc its just extra dmg cost 200 mp. They do need to make it more appealing for a 15 min skill tho. Add a mp restore to it or something.

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Originally Posted by Drazzan

D'awww <3

Onto topic. I've never seen a BLM deal that amount of damage on Ifrit. Even those who are double/triple melded.
I also hear through the rumour mill that INT/MAcc is the only worthwhile route because MAtk and CritRate are broken. Though I have no clarification on this, I would like to find out the truth.

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well if its anything like melee stats you wont notice much of a difference until you hit the soft cap with INT at that point M.Att starts boosting more than INT, CritRate isn't broken it just sucks.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

well if its anything like melee stats you wont notice much of a difference until you hit the soft cap with INT at that point M.Att starts boosting more than INT, CritRate isn't broken it just sucks.

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400INT is where INT starts to show less return. Takes some good double melds to get there.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

400INT is where INT starts to show less return. Takes some good double melds to get there.

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that's pretty nice quite a bit higher soft cap than melee which is about 350

Blm is my main, and I am very comfortable with Burst, quit trying to get something changed, when theres nothing wrong with it.

It is sad though that a thundaga combo will out damage a burst combo with very low hp. Thundaga can do 1.6~2k np, but a burst lucky to get it to 1.2~1.6k. This is suppose to be the supreme move of blm i would expect it to do more then a ga spell.

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Originally Posted by Drazzan

Burst does laughable damage for it's cool-down, Thunder and Thundara are base abilities and are fine as they are. There is no reason for a BLM to use Burst other than to see pretty effects. He might as well continue his Thunder -> Thundara combo, lest waste his time throwing out a Burst. Don't get me wrong; I love Burst's synergy with Convert. It's a great function, but just lacks in its usefulness



Are we talking about damage on Star Marmots or something?
This definitely isn't the damage output for any Black Mages I know on Ifrit for example. With double melded gear Black Mages pump out around 200~ Thunder's, 400~ Thundara's and 800~1k Thundaga's, but to use Burst's full capabilities, it requires converting; this, then requires that your WHM doesn't heal you, and you don't get hit via an AoE or Eruptions in the middle of the fight. It's VERY situational and does not seem to have much use in larger fights.

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Those damage numbers are dead on for me in Garuda, except my ara does about 900 on average and 550ish for thunder

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

To me, Dragonfire Dive is about equally limited as Burst in terms of usefulness. Being fire-elemental, it doesn't do much against monsters strong to that (cough Ifrit cough) but aside from that, damage isn't all the spectacular either. It's AoE - that's nice. It looks cool - aesthetic appeal. But I can do AoE with Ring of Talons, Leg Sweep, Doomspike....the first one actually seems to me to deal more damage than Dragonfire Dive. That's just my opinion though. Other DRG's may not think so.

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I agree about Ring of Talons seemingly making more DPS simply because there isn't as long a wait for the move and its practically the same thing.

burst is fine. if anything, blm needs a nerf. it's too powerful and far, far, far too easy to play

I don't think BLM itself is too powerful. However, it definitely is very easy to play compared to the other DDs. Also, it seems that BLM's primary stat has a higher (and much easier to reach) soft cap which is causing damage output to be higher than it should.

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Originally Posted by Fated

I don't think BLM itself is too powerful.

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except it is, and it always will be as long as every fight is designed to be 5mins or less

OP needs to remember BLM is only limited by 2 things:

Threat
MP

A LS BLM averages 500 thunders and 990 Thundaras (crits included in average) on Garuda, and I'll assume 1500 Thundaga and 1700 Burst as above poster though I'm not sure exactly what they do on her since I play BRD.

That means if your tank is awesome and you only need to worry about MP . . .

Thunder is 2.5 Damage per MP
Thundara is ~2.8 damage per MP
Thundaga is ~2.9 damage per MP (forcing Crit)
Burst is 7.5 damage per MP (forcing Crit)

That is HUGE compared to the rest of BLM's spells, any quicker and it would be very OP. Honestly Burst is the 2nd most powerful 15 minute ability IMO (only because Benedictions range is fail, and no one uses PLD).

WAR, MNK, and DRG 15m are pretty fail.

Just because its a spell that "doesn't do a lot" doesn't mean it needs to be buffed. If it was buffed any at all it would be WAY too strong because its already strong compared to the other jobs 15m.

I don't know if it has been said, but referring to Burst in particular, try checking out the MP cost and cast time compared to Thundaga. Not to mention, the damage is as high or under certain circumstances, higher than Thundaga. I don't see any need for a fix to it, honestly. BLM is already one of the biggest power houses in this game. No need to break its 15 minute ability.

Edit: Looking at other posts, it's exactly the point I was trying to make. BLM's 15 minute is amazing.

I think all of the ability above are just weak for trump card.

Please add more AF skill when we do more of their quest later and give us much better skill with recast time 30 min next.

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

I am fine lol, Im sitting at work, drinking some hot coffee, listening to music, and having a good ole laugh at Draz. I have never done anything to you Draz besides leave Save Point, so seriously no idea why you're making it personal.. I have always been informative and willing to help you so please refrain from making this about me..

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As the OP originally said, compared to OTHER 15min abilities, burst... well... Sucks. Period. No one said 15min abilities were "needed". No one asked about hOw GODZ uRs BLMz wUZ. It's just the truth.

It works. But isn't worth a 15min timer. I thought that was the whole complaint?... I was planning on reading the rest of this read hoping for better insight from people who obviously should agree, but now it's become a garbage storm. Also calling the OP a "troll" if f*&%ing hilarious and made no sense whatsoever. Trolling would be what then? I must be crazy because all this time I thought trolling was sitting at work stirring up sh!t over the internet without having a valid point? lol

Can we get a Poll on who'd rather have manafont?... Or basically anything useful without having to go red HP? BLM are twigs since WHM abil's were eliminated for the job to begin with...

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Originally Posted by Burrmanchu

As the OP originally said, compared to OTHER 15min abilities, burst... well... Sucks. Period. No one said 15min abilities were "needed". No one asked about hOw GODZ uRs BLMz wUZ. It's just the truth.

It works. But isn't worth a 15min timer. I thought that was the whole complaint?... I was planning on reading the rest of this read hoping for better insight from people who obviously should agree, but now it's become a garbage storm. Also calling the OP a "troll" if f*&%ing hilarious and made no sense whatsoever. Trolling would be what then? I must be crazy because all this time I thought trolling was sitting at work stirring up sh!t over the internet without having a valid point? lol

Can we get a Poll on who'd rather have manafont?... Or basically anything useful without having to go red HP? BLM are twigs since WHM abil's were eliminated for the job to begin with...

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Let's go over the abilities once more.

Warrior
Mighty Strikes
Guarantees all attacks made with axes will be critical hits.

The best out of the Melee's 15 minute IMO, it is short, but makes a boss fight just that much quicker. Also, for a tank WAR, it gives a good amount of hate.

Paladin
Hallowed Ground
Makes you impervious to all physical attacks.

As WHM as my secondary, this is a great move for a PLD to have. It is very short, but can help a lot. But let's be honest, who is using PLD as a tank?

Dragoon
Dragonfire Dive
Delivers a jumping fire attack to target and enemies near it.

A joke of a 15 min. It looks cool, that's about it. It's usefulness is close to zero, DRGs use it just to use it as a quick but weak AOE.

Monk
Hundred Fists
Temporarily increases auto-attack speed.

Mid-tier, it can help to burn those bosses down quick.

Bard
Battle Voice
Increases maximum HP of all party members within range and enhances effect of all songs sung while active.

A great move, especially for boss fights. It gives the WHMs some leeway in certain situations, on top of increasing the other songs.

Black Mage
Burst
Deals lightning damage.

Damage, at low HP (Please don't do this with convert during Marbol before the acid has cleared) this can be very potent. Not the best, but the damage can be good.

White Mage
Benediction
Restores HP of all party members within range.

Great move, period. This is probably one of the best 15 minutes there is.


To be honest, I think out of all the new jobs, Dragoons got the worst of it. Even when you look at the Devs maybe wanting people to go back to the original classes, it takes a hit. For instance, a WAR can gladly go back to MRD and gain some abilities to make him stronger (many being DRG abilities), but if a DRG goes back to LNC, it doesn't really gain anything. Actually it loses jump. All in all, DRG should have been the highest DPS out of all the melee, with monk, but it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Daku_Naito

Let's go over the abilities once more.

Warrior
Mighty Strikes
Guarantees all attacks made with axes will be critical hits.

The best out of the Melee's 15 minute IMO, it is short, but makes a boss fight just that much quicker. Also, for a tank WAR, it gives a good amount of hate.

Paladin
Hallowed Ground
Makes you impervious to all physical attacks.

As WHM as my secondary, this is a great move for a PLD to have. It is very short, but can help a lot. But let's be honest, who is using PLD as a tank?

Dragoon
Dragonfire Dive
Delivers a jumping fire attack to target and enemies near it.

A joke of a 15 min. It looks cool, that's about it. It's usefulness is close to zero, DRGs use it just to use it as a quick but weak AOE.

Monk
Hundred Fists
Temporarily increases auto-attack speed.

Mid-tier, it can help to burn those bosses down quick.

Bard
Battle Voice
Increases maximum HP of all party members within range and enhances effect of all songs sung while active.

A great move, especially for boss fights. It gives the WHMs some leeway in certain situations, on top of increasing the other songs.

Black Mage
Burst
Deals lightning damage.

Damage, at low HP (Please don't do this with convert during Marbol before the acid has cleared) this can be very potent. Not the best, but the damage can be good.

White Mage
Benediction
Restores HP of all party members within range.

Great move, period. This is probably one of the best 15 minutes there is.


To be honest, I think out of all the new jobs, Dragoons got the worst of it. Even when you look at the Devs maybe wanting people to go back to the original classes, it takes a hit. For instance, a WAR can gladly go back to MRD and gain some abilities to make him stronger (many being DRG abilities), but if a DRG goes back to LNC, it doesn't really gain anything. Actually it loses jump. All in all, DRG should have been the highest DPS out of all the melee, with monk, but it isn't.

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I agree! Hush you BLMs dudes, we DRG get hit a lot! >:( Not fair! rofl! xD

people complaining about burst are doing it wrong. the end.

While youre fixing burst fix 100 fists as well.

Hundred fist is completely lame i forgot i had the skill sometimes lol.

I never use it except sometimes in mistress if I remember it.
I still use burst whenever I am a blm though.

Burst is pretty much in line with the other damage dealing 15 minute abilities. The defensive ones are obviously better, but jobs that aren't tailored to dealing top-tier damage need that kind of utility.

What I want to see is global recast timers on 15 min abilities. That's all.

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Originally Posted by kro

What I want to see is global recast timers on 15 min abilities. That's all.

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I agree with the that, and I also agree with the above notion that Monk's 15 minute is a bit weak. I called it a Mid-Tier for this reason. These 15 minutes aren't supposed to be comparable to the 2 hours from XI. They are supposed to add something, but not too much. In this regard, WHM got a huge move, a move that is maybe comparable to a 2 hour. In this regard, especially with burst, BLM didn't do to bad. But when you look at Dragoon, it totally got screwed, most monsters get hit for just ridiculously low damage, to the point where it isn't even on my main bar when I DRG. Not even mentioning Dragoons low damage in total.

Ignoring all the ridiculous trolling going on this thread, I'd like to propose a few important (to me!) points:

1) I don't feel Burst should be buffed. I think that's the wrong direction to go. I think the problem is that an ancient magic was made the 15 minute ability to begin with.
2) I think exactly 0 of the ancient magic spells should be 15 minute abilities.
3) I think some other ability should be the 15 minute ability for BLM (be it Manafont or something else - I honestly don't even care if it's any good, as long as you get Burst out of 15 min recast land).
4) I think ALL of the ancient magic spells (burst, freeze, flare, whatever) should be roughly equivalent, so you can use them situationally depending on ele weakness of the monster and/or the merits of their additional effects (lowers enmity, inflicts DoT, whatever).

Again, I don't think Burst should be the 15 min ability. I don't want them to buff it; don't even care if they nerf it. I think they should focus on balancing all the ancient magic spells so that they are roughly equivalent, rather than going the FF11 route of (yo man, just use thunder all over the place it does best damage!). I'm honestly against any 15 min ability or whatever else with a huge cooldown being elemental specific.

But, if the devs would rather all the strong spells belong to a specific element, whatever. I'd much rather see the elemental weakness system used as much as possible, and don't believe making Burst the 15 min ability (and thus supposedly the strongest spell currently) contributes to this at all (strong vs. thunder? who cares use Burst lulz).

If anything, i'd like to see burst become an AoE. There really isn't much incentive to use burst over thundaga unless you are MP conscious.

What I really dislike as blm is not being able to choose AoE vs Single target element spells IE: No single target fire element & no multi-target thunder element. Hopefully SE moves forward when 2.0 comes out and makes BLM a little more situational friendly.

blm already has flare, fire, fira, firaga, blizzaga. it doesn't need more aoe.

burst should always be prioritized over thundaga if your mp is low and you have convert. if there's no reason for you to use convert, burst should *still* be prioritized over thundaga in most situations. the only time you ever use thundaga over burst is when you know you'll run out of mp at some later point, so you can convert+burst when that time comes.

sometimes i wonder if you guys even play blm

just change it to manaflow make reset all recast and unlimit mp for 30 sec.. 'w')b

instant cast and reset thundara cooldown. Enough for me.