Pulling wall to wall isn't fast enough?

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

The who and what now?

https://media4.giphy.com/media/LObjD...nXve/giphy.gif

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OP got a friend to come in here with misinformation. Was figured out as the response didn’t make sense and was a repeat of what op said to me. When someone else looked that person up it was clear they were called in.
So in short, OPs went to their fc, umbra for help on this thread

By calling for fc backup to mass-report posts they've straight up lost any credibility for whatever their stance was and their fc as a whole. It's never felt better not being on Balmung!

"Why Moral Grandstanders Deserve Less"

https://www.nme.com/wp-content/uploa...getty-2020.jpg

Got some straight up snakes on this board I swear.

Well that was enjoyable while it lasted. I'll be waiting for next episode (translate: thread) from that whole FC.

No such thing happened.
Please refrain from badmouthing our FC on an unfounded claim.

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Originally Posted by Silliv

No such thing happened.
Please refrain from badmouthing our FC on an unfounded claim.

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The minimum that happened is one of your members made a claim while defending someone who attacked one side, saying they were attacked also. When pointed out they were wrong they made a comment. Then another member came in making the same exact nonsensical comment, was found out was same fc. Now everything surrounding that is gone. Those facts are not up for debate. Now here you are

Daily reminder, combat noises during a 5 second cutscene of a monster you're about to be in combat with is apparently serious business =(

I'm here cause to defend my FC as any leader should.
Since, as you say, many posts were deleted, I can't see what exactly happened, but I trust that the moderators deleted inappropriate banter.
I don't care if two or three of my members debate about whatever on the forums, as long as no proof of them actively harassing anyone is brought before me.
But saying "Umbra FC mass reported" is just straight-up slander.
So please don't drag us into this, thank you.
Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by Silliv

I'm here cause to defend my FC as any leader should.

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Actually most of them wouldn't. I need a FC like this.

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Originally Posted by Silliv

I'm here cause to defend my FC as any leader should.
Since, as you say, many posts were deleted, I can't see what exactly happened, but I trust that the moderators deleted inappropriate banter.
I don't care if two or three of my members debate about whatever on the forums, as long as no proof of them actively harassing anyone is brought before me.
But saying "Umbra FC mass reported" is just straight-up slander.
So please don't drag us into this, thank you.
Have a nice day.

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I said “my guess is” as all that was deleted surrounded your members and 1 other =]

Edit. “Bet”. I used the word bet

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Originally Posted by Silliv

as long as no proof of them actively harassing anyone is brought before me.

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Ftail had no problems agreeing with a poster that compared people they disagreed with with untrained dogs and pretended to not get it, even doing an embarrassing attempt at gaslighting even - this, you can still see
another member, lily something (weiss?), straight up insulted people, though that was deleted
what was also deleted were several pages of on-topic posts that resulted from Ftail being obtuse on purpose and moral grandstanding about it

it's just very very odd that none of their posts were deleted, while the posts of multiple people are gone who politely disagreed with them, not once insulting them nor anyone else
you understand why we think it's weird, right? if it'd be a normal mod intervention, why wouldn't they just straight up delete the whole discussion like they've done multiple times before? why the selective deleting?

I'm just started tanking and I do find it rude if DPS pulls behind my pull. I adjust my pulls based on if the Healer can comfortably keep up and what cooldowns are up or down.

Usually they listen when I inform them that as the Tank I determine the pulls as that's my role. If they aren't satisfied with how I'm pulling and how large I pull then they're free to leave or tank themselves. That usually gets them to slow down and let me do my job as more often then not most DPS don't tank and don't want to tank.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

I'm just started tanking and I do find it rude if DPS pulls behind my pull. I adjust my pulls based on if the Healer can comfortably keep up and what cooldowns are up or down.

Usually they listen when I inform them that as the Tank I determine the pulls as that's my role. If they aren't satisfied with how I'm pulling and how large I pull then they're free to leave or tank themselves. That usually gets them to slow down and let me do my job as more often then not most DPS don't tank and don't want to tank.

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You realize by doing this your are putting strain on your healer as well? Unless your healer is on board with letting the dps tank what they pull, you are punishing your healer as well. If a tank did that to me, I’d be against them as much as I’d be against the dps

I had someone pull early when I was watching a short cutscene for a boss and when I came in I landed right in the middle of two overlapping AOEs. Needless to say, I died. Whatever, I enjoyed the cutscene and the dirt nap and they got to enjoy a longer boss battle.

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Originally Posted by Foraet

I had someone pull early when I was watching a short cutscene for a boss and when I came in I landed right in the middle of two overlapping AOEs. Needless to say, I died. Whatever, I enjoyed the cutscene and the dirt nap and they got to enjoy a longer boss battle.

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Was it longer? Time saved starting boss fight vs time lost to cast a raise. I’d believe they saved more than they lost

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Originally Posted by Silliv

No such thing happened.
Please refrain from badmouthing our FC on an unfounded claim.

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Internet never forgets.

This thread is gold

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Was it longer? Time saved starting boss fight vs time lost to cast a raise. I’d believe they saved more than they lost

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25% stat penalty though, which is painful.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Was it longer? Time saved starting boss fight vs time lost to cast a raise. I’d believe they saved more than they lost

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Of course, it was longer. The cutscene was 5 seconds, and I hadn't seen it before. The healer wasn't able to rez me immediately for whatever reason. And when I did get the rez, I was laying in a slow AOE so I had to wait. And as was mentioned, death debuff. Plus that whole time I couldn't do any DPS.

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Originally Posted by Foraet

Of course, it was longer. The cutscene was 5 seconds, and I hadn't seen it before. The healer wasn't able to rez me immediately for whatever reason. And when I did get the rez, I was laying in a slow AOE so I had to wait. And as was mentioned, death debuff. Plus that whole time I couldn't do any DPS.

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If the cs was only 5 seconds, I doubt you were tossed into aoe. Firstly, you wouldn’t of been in the boss room. Secondly, at 5 seconds, the time hadn’t been long enough to force you into the fight. Thirdly, at 5 seconds, boss room hadn’t closed off yet. Even had you received a rez, you rez onto the healers position at time of cast. Not your current position. On top of that, you get rez immunity for a couple seconds.

Yes jijifli, I had thought about death penalty after. But the story doesn’t add up

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

If the cs was only 5 seconds, I doubt you were tossed into aoe. Firstly, you wouldn’t of been in the boss room. Secondly, at 5 seconds, the time hadn’t been long enough to force you into the fight. Thirdly, at 5 seconds, boss room hadn’t closed off yet. Even had you received a rez, you rez onto the healers position at time of cast. Not your current position. On top of that, you get rez immunity for a couple seconds.

Yes jijifli, I had thought about death penalty after. But the story doesn’t add up

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You're probably right, it's been a while. I think it was longer, I think I was forced in. I didn't know about rez immunity, I never noticed you rez on the healer's position. Guess I'm wrong. You win. Good job.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Final bosses should lock the fight until everyone is finished with the cut scenes. Most cut scenes are half a minute or less anyway.
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I thought it was this way anyway, in that the barrier to the boss area wouldn't drop until everyone was done watching the cutscenes.

When I played WoW, if you stopped to view a cutscene, you'd miss half the run, or get kicked for AFKing. As a result, I always cancelled the scenes so as to not get left behind.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

You realize by doing this your are putting strain on your healer as well? Unless your healer is on board with letting the dps tank what they pull, you are punishing your healer as well. If a tank did that to me, I’d be against them as much as I’d be against the dps

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That's up to the healer if they want to heal them after they refuse to follow simple instructions and want to try tanking as a DPS. They learn quick after the first death.

As a tank it isn't my job to babysit people. Either they let me, the tank, set the tempo or they can leave and try tanking themselves. It's about respect. Respect my role and I'll respect your role.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

That's up to the healer if they want to heal them after they refuse to follow simple instructions and want to try tanking as a DPS. They learn quick after the first death.

As a tank it isn't my job to babysit people. Either they let me, the tank, set the tempo or they can leave and try tanking themselves. It's about respect. Respect my role and I'll respect your role.

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If I were in your group as a healer and you pulled that, I'd turn my full attention to healing the dps that you are trying to let die. If you don't want to do the job you queued for because of your ego, you can leave. :)

And if you don't leave, well, I'm sure the vote dismiss will pass quickly.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

I'm just started tanking and I do find it rude if DPS pulls behind my pull. I adjust my pulls based on if the Healer can comfortably keep up and what cooldowns are up or down.

Usually they listen when I inform them that as the Tank I determine the pulls as that's my role. If they aren't satisfied with how I'm pulling and how large I pull then they're free to leave or tank themselves. That usually gets them to slow down and let me do my job as more often then not most DPS don't tank and don't want to tank.

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You're a tank, not a pull.

- plays tank
- refuses to tank
- has main character syndrome when he's nothing more than a cog in the party wheel
- unwarranted ego
- talks about disrespect yet disrespects everyone else in the party with his kindergarten behaviour
- unwarranted ego
definitively a single puller, tbh

personal insult? that you have an unwarranted ego is a fact, just read your own posts lol
or are you saying that single puller or main character syndrome are the insults? please get out of whatever social echo chamber bubble you're in if you consider those insults

those assumptions lmao
I've had exactly 3 tanks get upset at me throughout 1000s of dungeons, trials and raids and you know what? only 2 (t w o) were about pulling - and what do you think I pulled in both cases? the first time, it was a singular (1 (one)) enemy that aggro'd me through line of sight, not even because I attacked it. the second time it was two mobs in toto-rak while the tank was standing around doing nothing, refusing to pick up the light thing (which name eludes me right now). maybe he should've done his job and pulled instead of doing nothing, hmm?
plus, the only time I've ever been voted out was by two people griefing, so you're wrong, thank you very much

the tanks role is holding aggro, nothing more, nothing else. it's job is not setting the pace nor pulling, but of course you know it better, mr lvl 60 tank
I'm clearly the wrong one, with 3 tanks at 80 and the last one currently at 67 and soon to be 80, too!

PS: DPS don't even get a chance to pull for me, maybe you should try that, too! maybe then you'll stop complaining about a non-issue

When you learn to be respectful and stop being toxic then we can talk. Not that I see much gain from it considering you see tanks as glorified Babysitters meant to accommodate suicidal "go, go, go" DPS that blatantly disrespect the tank like yourself.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

And no. The tanks job is setting the tempo and tanking - not babysitting. The role is called Tank not "Let the DPS walk all over you".

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I can assure you... if this is another MMO, you'll probably correct. But FFXIV is different. Tanks are -not- the king. It's the group's decision. If people are dissatisfied they each have 33% power over the group that's also known as Vote Dismiss count.

A single pulling tank is as good as a gimped dps with constant Weakness debuff. Why? Because in addition to tanks' already lower damage output than a legit DPS, tanking a single pack is something that's not exclusive to tanks. Single pulling devalues qualities where tanks shines at: their tankiness. Why would you waste that advantage of yours by playing chicken? If you don't want to see anybody pulling ahead in lv50+ contents, then pull until there's nothing left to pull.

Do note that I specifically mentioned lv50+ because that's how easy tanking progresses into late game. If it's lv15-50 where walls aren't so apparent (i.e. Aurum Vale first room), taking consideration of your healers' limited tools, dps AoE firepower, and your own survivability is completely fine. Under normal circumstances, big pulls are almost always preferred. Horror stories happen but they're not the norm.

Please don't fall into "Tanks/Healers are the king"-trap, that's a relic from another MMO. I repeat; FFXIV is entirely different. :(

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Thankfully I haven't dealt with incompetent healers as such thus far.

Ironic too that you talk about "jobs" when you're enabling DPS that aren't doing their job and you're refusing to do your job yourself. I pity any tank that's unfortunate enough to be grouped with you.

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I'm a competent enough healer that I can keep a dps alive without a tank. If you don't want to tank, I don't need you.

Sure, I don't necessarily agree with DPS pulling. I find it annoying. But what gets under my skin more is egomaniacs like you who think they are the most important person in the duty. Get over yourself before you look like a complete fool.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Ironic too that you talk about "jobs" when you're enabling DPS that aren't doing their job and you're refusing to do your job yourself.

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The dps who pulls mobs and starts hitting them is doing their job, which is to deal damage. If you're slacking and they take on your role as well as their own, I'll happily heal them and give them a comm too. Dungeons are too easy for tanks (or any role) to act like they are irreplaceable.

Pull faster, and no one can pull for you.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The dps who pulls mobs and starts hitting them is doing their job, which is to deal damage. If you're slacking and they take on your role as well as their own, I'll happily heal them and give them a comm too. Dungeons are too easy for tanks (or any role) to act like they are irreplaceable.

Pull faster, and no one can pull for you.

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Oh? So you're saying a DPS knows better than the tank? Even in randoms? The DPS magically knows the tank's skill level thus they have the sole authority to dictate runs and the tank should adjust to do what the DPS wants even if they aren't comfortable with it? Geez. Sounds like that DPS should switch to Tank then since they know more about tanking than the tank!

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I'm a competent enough healer that I can keep a dps alive without a tank. If you don't want to tank, I don't need you.

Sure, I don't necessarily agree with DPS pulling. I find it annoying. But what gets under my skin more is egomaniacs like you who think they are the most important person in the duty. Get over yourself before you look like a complete fool.

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I highly doubt that.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I can assure you... if this is another MMO, you'll probably correct. But FFXIV is different. Tanks are -not- the king. It's the group's decision. If people are dissatisfied they each have 33% power over the group that's also known as Vote Dismiss count.

A single pulling tank is as good as a gimped dps with constant Weakness debuff. Why? Because in addition to tanks' already lower damage output than a legit DPS, tanking a single pack is something that's not exclusive to tanks. Single pulling devalues qualities where tanks shines at: their tankiness. Why would you waste that advantage of yours by playing chicken? If you don't want to see anybody pulling ahead in lv50+ contents, then pull until there's nothing left to pull.

Do note that I specifically mentioned lv50+ because that's how easy tanking progresses into late game. If it's lv15-50 where walls aren't so apparent (i.e. Aurum Vale first room), taking consideration of your healers' limited tools, dps AoE firepower, and your own survivability is completely fine. Under normal circumstances, big pulls are almost always preferred. Horror stories happen but they're not the norm.

Please don't fall into "Tanks/Healers are the king"-trap, that's a relic from another MMO. I repeat; FFXIV is entirely different. :(

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Ah. So in FF14 it's okay to abuse and disrespect tanks?

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Ah. So in FF14 it's okay to abuse and disrespect tanks?

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You're already disrespecting your parties time by refusing to put even a modicum of effort into a team activity; Why on earth would you expect them to respect you back?

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Oh? So you're saying a DPS knows better than the tank? Even in randoms? The DPS magically knows the tank's skill level thus they have the sole authority to dictate runs and the tank should adjust to do what the DPS wants even if they aren't comfortable with it?

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If a dps pulls and doesn't die because the healer is on board with it, then your discomfort is unwarranted. Clearly the mobs don't hit very hard. So yes, you should adjust to what your group wants instead of expecting them to adjust to what you want.

Your skill level is irrelevant to this conversation because tanking dungeons requires you to run forward, press a cooldown and press AoE buttons. The same thing you (hopefully) did in Sastasha.

Watching diva tanks get torn to shreds gives me life.

Imagine thinking holding w on the keyboard/forward on a joystick is some kind of forbidden art.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

If a dps pulls and doesn't die because the healer is on board with it, then your discomfort is unwarranted. Clearly the mobs don't hit very hard. So yes, you should adjust to what your group wants instead of expecting them to adjust to what you want.

Your skill level is irrelevant to this conversation because tanking dungeons requires you to run forward, press a cooldown and press AoE buttons. The same thing you (hopefully) did in Sastasha.

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Disagree. The DPS shouldn't require being babysat while they walk all over the tank and force the healer to work harder to save them from their suicidal tendencies.

If tanking was so simple then why do most play DPS? Simple. Tanking isn't easy nor is healing. So most players don't want that responsibility as they know that when a DPS messes up that the Tank and sometimes healer are blamed for not carrying harder.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You're already disrespecting your parties time by refusing to put even a modicum of effort into a team activity; Why on earth would you expect them to respect you back?

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You assume a lot while giving the DPS the benefit of the doubt no matter what they do while placing all blame on the tank.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

When you learn to be respectful and stop being toxic then we can talk. Not that I see much gain from it considering you see tanks as glorified Babysitters meant to accommodate suicidal "go, go, go" DPS that blatantly disrespect the tank like yourself.

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Rinhi is correct.

Tanks are (for the most part) just glorified babysitters. Especially in dungeons and other non-threatening content.

I am speaking as a tank main, not as a DPS main.

Tanks do not set the pace. DPS set the pace. How fast the enemies are defeated dictates how quickly the group can move to the next set of enemies and how many enemies to grab. DPS have majority control over this. Tank and Healer damage are used to substitute lacking DPS damage and/or helps speed up the kill if there is an adequate enough damage from the DPS.

Tanks and Healers are custodians. They set an environment to allow DPS to do their jobs without worry. For tanks, this is just holding enemies in a certain way, using damage reduction, and deal damage. They do not dictate pace. The help maintain the pace.

As for pulls, it would be easier to do an end-to-end hold by you as the tank pulling first. If a DPS or Healer does, then you are just saving a GCD/Provoke. Don’t take offence to it. Use it to your advantage and grab the mobs.

If you cannot get over this mentality that you have, I think you would be better off playing a DPS. Tanks are a service role, just like healers. DPS are your main character who drives forward the progression. This is not me being disrespectful to Tanks or Healers. It is just how SE has designed these jobs for FF14.

I don't subscribe to such a toxic mentality. If the DPS wants to pull then they should queue as tank then. Could always use more tanks. Or could it be that they want the ability to Dictate how the Tank should tank while putting all the blame and responsibility on the Tank if they're unable to adjust to their "Go, Go, Go" mentality? Seems to be the case based off the replies in this topic.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Disagree. The DPS shouldn't require being babysat while they walk all over the tank and force the healer to work harder to save them from their suicidal tendencies.

If tanking was so simple then why do most play DPS? Simple. Tanking isn't easy nor is healing. So most players don't want that responsibility as they know that when a DPS messes up that the Tank and sometimes healer are blamed for not carrying harder.

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So you just answered your own question but decided to throw in a useless statement in the middle. "Tanking isn't easy" is a lie. you follow up right after by saying the real reason "So most players don't want that responsibility". It has nothing to do with how hard it is.

In terms of the actual job itself, your rotation is way easier so you can focus on nothing except keeping aggro and keeping others alive.

I also want to point out how hilarious it is that you use the argument about "force the healer to work harder" in the forums when there's always a bunch of threads about how healers are bored and have nothing to do but press 1 button.

Riiight. Then there should be plenty of tanks out, right? I mean it's "Totally" the easiest role! Then why, pray tell, do Tanks have near instant queues while DPS struggle to get in within a timely manner? Could it be that tanking isn't so simple hence why most players don't want to deal with such a big role? Yes, that is the case.