the immersion problem made by glams

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Originally Posted by Ferra

I personally don't see a problem with more 'modern' clothes: In a world of magic, mechs and medieval I don't think a pair of blue jeans would be that far out of place.

FF games have always ran the gambit in how the setting works and 14 seems like a mish mash of all of them. I don't think there should be options to just flat out hide a glam.

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I would add that a world with such mechanized/modern manufacturing processes would necessitate the development of more modern materials such as denim or plastics.

At first I thought oh that's too modern but then it dawned on me this is fantasy! Seriously, I lover the glams.

If it was another game, sure, but FF14 was never a magic and wizards fantasy setting so modern clothing doesn't really bug me.

FF itself hasn't even had that kind of setting since 5, maybe 6.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

If it was another game, sure, but FF14 was never a magic and wizards fantasy setting so modern clothing doesn't really bug me.

FF itself hasn't even had that kind of setting since 5, maybe 6.

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FFIX and FFXI as well. Also XIV 1.0 and arguably 2.0 followed a high fantasy feel with the Garleans being exotic for their magitek.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

If it was another game, sure, but FF14 was never a magic and wizards fantasy setting so modern clothing doesn't really bug me.

FF itself hasn't even had that kind of setting since 5, maybe 6.

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IX absolutely. It was a love letter to the original sprite games that had more of a fantasy background.

Personally, yes I find modern glam immersion breaking, especially something that is so real life inspired. For example: the mogstation high school glams, calfskin outfits, rebel coat, to name a few. I know we have advanced civilization, allag and garlean, but imo their outfits still have the old fantasy look/elements. Sometimes it even not that far from what we got in Eorzea (robes, armor, etc).

That being said, I don't particularly care about what other people wear since I play solo. And asking someone to change their glam just for me is...well, it will never end well.

The only time it bothers me if when I do msq and so many modern glam-wearing players (or just a really weird glam too I suppose) surround the quest giver npc. That's why most of the time I wait until most people are done with msq to do mine in peace XD

You turn off other players' glams, you end up with a whole bunch of Rainbow Pimp Gear wearing people. And that presents its own issues when it comes to immersion.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Fantasy is not a particular aesthetic.

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yes it is. as much a punk or goth. but to be more accurate lots of the things in game are more visual kei that pure fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Poporito_Popoto

This is the very definition of a 'you' problem.

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its clearly is. some more people have it as well as far as i know.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Your point being? We have sci-fi tech, that makes modern clothes also entirely reasonable. The flipside of that isnt necessarly true but that case also isnt relevant as we clearly have sci-fi stuff in ff14.

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what we got in FF14 (and most of them) is magical technology or magitek. if we really want to give FF more accurate definition it be magitek. not sci/fi. notihng in the world if ff works on scientific principles but on magic. thats what make it more of fantasy. wahts more what modern looking city we got in 14?

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

You turn off other players' glams, you end up with a whole bunch of Rainbow Pimp Gear wearing people. And that presents its own issues when it comes to immersion.

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how so?

one more thing i find funny is that yoshi wanted a more pure fantasy game .

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

yes it is. as much a punk or goth. but to be more accurate lots of the things in game are more visual kei that pure fantasy.

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You appear to not be very familiar with fantasy as a genre.
There is a lot of fantasy that is set in the modern world, as well as a large number of different historical settings, so clearly fantasy is not limited to the pseudo-medieval stuff.
Fantasy does not imply a certain type of clothing, nor any special aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

You appear to not be very familiar with fantasy as a genre.
There is a lot of fantasy that is set in the modern world, as well as a large number of different historical settings, so clearly fantasy is not limited to the pseudo-medieval stuff.
Fantasy does not imply a certain type of clothing, nor any special aesthetic.

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you may nit be then. a pure fantasy will be set in a fantasy world what we call high fantasy. FF14 got most of the elements for high fantasy but its got unique to it self elements as well. we can call it magitek. when the fantasy seting is the modern world its modern fantasy. or just magic not even fantasy.

Final Fantasy is not High Fantasy though. It never/has never really meant to be. Even the most “High Fantasy” of FF titles includes sci-fi elements. Heck, the very first FF title had the Flying Fortress, revealed to be a space station built by a “technologically advanced race”. This was retconned in later editions to be more Castle in the Sky, but the original NES had us in the stars.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Final Fantasy is not High Fantasy though. It never/has never really meant to be. Even the most “High Fantasy” of FF titles includes sci-fi elements. Heck, the very first FF title had the Flying Fortress, revealed to be a space station built by a “technologically advanced race”. This was retconned in later editions to be more Castle in the Sky, but the original NES had us in the stars.

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what sci-fi elements are not made by magic in ff?

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

what we got in FF14 (and most of them) is magical technology or magitek. if we really want to give FF more accurate definition it be magitek. not sci/fi. notihng in the world if ff works on scientific principles but on magic. thats what make it more of fantasy. wahts more what modern looking city we got in 14?

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I feel I need to correct this because it's outright wrong. Only Eorzean Technology works on Magitech and in anyway uses pure magic to power itself, and not even all Eorzean Technology does that, there's also Clockwork Technology which doesn't use magic at all and is much miore steampunky, and then on top of that there's Allagan Technology which mixes Aether into advanced Tech to do some crazy shit, the Allagans have everything from Holographic Screens straight out of Star Wars, to Bioengineering, to fucking SPACE SHIPS. Then we go to Garlemalds Technology which is an entirely different beast all together, it, again, doesn't use Aether AT ALL, it uses Cerelum, which is more of a fuel, like irl Oil or Gas, and the Garleans have insanely advanced Tech, cloning, genetic manipulation, massive flying machines, shock collars, etc etc. FF14 is NOT pure High Fantasy. Deal With It.

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Originally Posted by Fenrir95

I feel I need to correct this because it's outright wrong. Only Eorzean Technology works on Magitech and in anyway uses pure magic to power itself, and not even all Eorzean Technology does that, there's also Clockwork Technology which doesn't use magic at all and is much miore steampunky, and then on top of that there's Allagan Technology which mixes Aether into advanced Tech to do some crazy shit, the Allagans have everything from Holographic Screens straight out of Star Wars, to Bioengineering, to fucking SPACE SHIPS. Then we go to Garlemalds Technology which is an entirely different beast all together, it, again, doesn't use Aether AT ALL, it uses Cerelum, which is more of a fuel, like irl Oil or Gas, and the Garleans have insanely advanced Tech, cloning, genetic manipulation, massive flying machines, shock collars, etc etc. FF14 is NOT pure High Fantasy. Deal With It.

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you are in now way wrong but all of this things are based in magic. they all run on some form of magic or magical crystals

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

you are in now way wrong but all of this things are based in magic. they all run on some form of magic or magical crystals

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They do not. Garlean tech runs on Cerelum Fuel which isn't really magic, it's closer to irl Oil, like I pointed out, Clockwork Technology is similar, more steampunky but it doesn't use Aether or Crystals as it's power source. Only Allagan Tech and Eorzean Magitech do that if we're being technical, but let me put it this way, FF7 is in NO WAY Pure High Fantasy, most of it's tech technically uses "magic", in fact Garlemald is more or less the same as FF7's technology. Like it or not there is a distinction between Magic and Technology in FF14, yes it's all aether based, but that does not make the setting High Fnatasy, it is not, never has been, and never will be.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

you are in now way wrong but all of this things are based in magic. they all run on some form of magic or magical crystals

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Magic can't make a maid outfit?

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Magic can't make a maid outfit?

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at what point did i say i dont like the maid outfit? and it do not made by magic. or is it a modern thing

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

what sci-fi elements are not made by magic in ff?

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A few points:

1) I'm not sure what the point of your question is. Everyone here has been telling you that FF is fantasy with sci-fi elements. No one is arguing it's pure Sci-Fi.

2) Since you asked,

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Final Fantasy is not High Fantasy though. It never/has never really meant to be. Even the most “High Fantasy” of FF titles includes sci-fi elements. Heck, the very first FF title had the Flying Fortress, revealed to be a space station built by a “technologically advanced race”. This was retconned in later editions to be more Castle in the Sky, but the original NES had us in the stars.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Heck, the very first FF title had the Flying Fortress, revealed to be a space station built by a “technologically advanced race”.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

a space station

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3) You seem to be confused as to what Fantasy even means. As others have said, what you're trying to describe with wizards/pure magic is "High Fantasy". It does not encompass all fantasy: Harry Potter is an example of a fantasy in a modern setting.

4) A well known quote by Arthur C. Clark "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Many Sci-Fi stories have weird elements that are essentially "magic". The Spice from Dune and how it works is, essentially, magical. The mineral Unobtainium from the Avatar movie similarly defies science as we know it.


It’s not on me to explain stuff to someone who doesn’t want to see it. You want to the game to be something it isn’t- a High Fantasy. As others have pointed out repeatedly, it’s not a high fantasy. Fantasy has a broad meaning- even the Marvel Avengers series can be seen as fantasy.

There is nothing else to really say on it.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

what we got in FF14 (and most of them) is magical technology or magitek. if we really want to give FF more accurate definition it be magitek. not sci/fi. notihng in the world if ff works on scientific principles but on magic. thats what make it more of fantasy. wahts more what modern looking city we got in 14?

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Have you not seen the pictures and artworks of garlemald?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Have you not seen the pictures and artworks of garlemald?

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i did and its some what technological looking but in no way modern.

but there no point arguing semantics. its clear we all stay in our believes. so lets agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

you are in now way wrong but all of this things are based in magic. they all run on some form of magic or magical crystals

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Very very wrong in FFXIV alone, never mind throwing in other mainline games in as well. FFVII, VIII, XIII (1, 2 and 3) and XV have loads of modern tech in them and often their tech far outpaces what we in the real world currently have. In FFXIV there is an entire nation that relies almost exclusively on tech - the Garleans. The msq made a point to say that pure-blooded Garleans cannot manipulate aether so they had to turn to technology in order to compete with magic users. Yes in some cases they use tech to interact with crystals but most of their tech relies on ceruleum which is a natural resource in the world quite like oil and gas. Aside from that tech they rely on conscripted soldiers of other races to have magic users in their armies. It's actually because of the Garlean industrial revolution that they gained the power to become a huge empire.

Also the Garleans often think of themselves as the heirs to Allagan technology, to the point that they call primals "eikons" just like they did. The Allagans did use magic but they also developed technology that completely overpowered it, which is evident in the Bahamut and Warring Triad storylines.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Also the Garleans often think of themselves as the heirs to Allagan technology, to the point that they call primals "eikons" just like they did. The Allagans did use magic but they also developed technology that completely overpowered it, which is evident in the Bahamut and Warring Triad storylines.

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Not to mention, that allagan technology is looking very sci-fi (late allagan gear, lost allagan gear, maybe ironworks gear).

I dont see much high fantasy elements in the gunbreaker, machinist or sage. Those are more modern jobs.

You (not the person I ve quoted) think high school-, maid- or other modern outfits are immersion breaking? Wait for that Roe in a metallic pink pig suit wearing a big chocobo head ; )


PS: Yes, the flying elephant or spinning turtle is still a thing. No matter how you explain it, it just looks weird ; )

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

technological looking but... modern.

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If that's all you're looking for, just ask for one of your friendly neighborhood Eorzeans to show off their handy little cellph- I mean, tomestone (-lith?). They'll be able to bring up the latest fashions, call their friends, order a meal delivered by Chocüber, and all with just a few quick swipes and taps of their finger. Everyone who's anyone is getting one; except me, because I know better and refuse to fall prey to another scheme created by the Illuminati.

The thing about semantics is that, when you're talking about immersion, that's all you're going to be talking about because immersion is a personal experience that is inflicted upon individuals differently and through varying triggers in varying degrees.
Therefore, you were arguing semantics since the very beginning.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

i did and its some what technological looking but in no way modern.

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Guess regular streets with regular sidewalks like I see every day with steel houses and sky scrapers only look modern to me then.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Guess regular streets with regular sidewalks like I see every day with steel houses and sky scrapers only look modern to me then.

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They must be from Allag.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

you may nit be then. a pure fantasy will be set in a fantasy world what we call high fantasy. FF14 got most of the elements for high fantasy but its got unique to it self elements as well. we can call it magitek. when the fantasy seting is the modern world its modern fantasy. or just magic not even fantasy.

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Fantasy set in the modern world is usually called urban fantasy, not modern fantasy - but either way it is still a subset of fantasy and thus fantasy. The very poorly defined "high fantasy" is just another subset of fantasy and in no way more "pure" fantasy than any other subset.

theres been a lalafell in a maid outfit outside the missing member for as long as ive visited aftcastle.
the npcs outside the ocean fishing docks wear cute bikini tops.
the first dungeon dps set set includes an armored hoodie.

if you want immersion just pretend these are designs rowena stole from the allagan tomestones. that would explain why she has a new "modern" outfit every other patch (:

Personally I'm hoping there is a tank top and short shorts further down the line.

...I just really want to mimic the Tifa look. So I'm thankful for the more modern looks available.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

1. make it so people can turn off glams from other players.

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No. Period.

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2. add more npc's to the world that wear this glams/gear.

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There are a handful, specifically few in Ishgard restoration, but having more wouldn't hurt.

We've had modern looking glamours almost since ARR, and they don't really break anything. The game isn't set in stone age. It's a mix of medieval and futuristic technologies, and if they're able to make basically planes - they sure are able to make a fancy looking clothing.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Very very wrong in FFXIV alone, never mind throwing in other mainline games in as well. FFVII, VIII, XIII (1, 2 and 3) and XV have loads of modern tech in them and often their tech far outpaces what we in the real world currently have. In FFXIV there is an entire nation that relies almost exclusively on tech - the Garleans. The msq made a point to say that pure-blooded Garleans cannot manipulate aether so they had to turn to technology in order to compete with magic users. Yes in some cases they use tech to interact with crystals but most of their tech relies on ceruleum which is a natural resource in the world quite like oil and gas. Aside from that tech they rely on conscripted soldiers of other races to have magic users in their armies. It's actually because of the Garlean industrial revolution that they gained the power to become a huge empire.

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To be fair, samsara is technically correct since everything in ffxiv world is made up by aether, which basically a magical atom I guess. Ceruleum is just another form of condensed aether, like the crystals but liquid form. And tbh, while magitek is a technology, they sometimes are borderline magic as well (capable of copying the echo, the Weapons, diabolos from Bozja story).

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Originally Posted by Halivel

No. Period.


There are a handful, specifically few in Ishgard restoration, but having more wouldn't hurt.

We've had modern looking glamours almost since ARR, and they don't really break anything. The game isn't set in stone age. It's a mix of medieval and futuristic technologies, and if they're able to make basically planes - they sure are able to make a fancy looking clothing.

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what casual modern outfits we got from 2.0? the really casual modern outfits started in 4.x as far as i know.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

what casual modern outfits we got from 2.0? the really casual modern outfits started in 4.x as far as i know.

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Snow/Light attire was added in 2.05. Cloud's attire was added in 2.51. You might say "but they're crossovers" - they are, but they're in the game, and they are 100% modern. Wedding attires were added in 2.45. Valentine aprons were added in 2.1. Just what I can think of fast.

If we are talking about casual attires - yes, those are indeed becoming more of a norm to be included starting from Stormblood and onwards, but "modern glamours", as a concept, were a thing since almost the start of the game, with several of them being included during first expansion mostly through collabls and events, then a whole lot coming in Heavensward, and then being mixed with more casual clothes in Stormblood and onwards. Which isn't a bad thing, it still doesn't break anything.

Nero and Cid create for us goddamn futuristic armor since level 50, just look at Ironworks - having a pair of jeans (that were invented in 1800s, so they aren't even all that modern) or sneakers (that also were invented at about the same time with jeans) next to some of our armor sets isn't really all that weird. Not any more weird that seeing an Elezen in a frog costume in Il Mheg during beast tribe quests. /shrug

I mean, you're just going to keep moving goal posts...but:

2.x We got all the bikinis/swimwear from 1.0 and more. Bikinis, believe it or not, are indeed modern.

Doesn't count as clothing? ...ok

2.x also gave us the Santa tunic. A red santa (and indeed Santa in general) is a fairly modern thing. Too christmasy.. ok ok

How about the fishnet tights we got at the Gold Saucer?

.. ok Fine...Here's one that's obscure.

The garter belts (not the garter you see in wedding traditions, but the actual suspender-belt that holds up stockings) you can find on certain skirts (like the Patrician's). That's a fairly modern invention. Like 1920s. That's on almost every skirt/hose of crafting you can find. Or are skirts too formal?

I'm not even going into the hot mess that is Rowena's fashion during Heavensward.

Or were you only asking for "Modern, 2010s style, for men"?

Edit: Not trying to jump on you- it could just be a lost in translation and you are genuinely curious. If so, please do ask any questions and I'm sure people (myself included) will be happy to provide information.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I mean, you're just going to keep moving goal posts...but:

2.x We got all the bikinis/swimwear from 1.0 and more. Bikinis, believe it or not, are indeed modern.

Doesn't count as clothing? ...ok

2.x also gave us the Santa tunic. A red santa (and indeed Santa in general) is a fairly modern thing. Too christmasy.. ok ok

How about the fishnet tights we got at the Gold Saucer?

.. ok Fine...Here's one that's obscure.

The garter belts (not the garter you see in wedding traditions, but the actual suspender-belt that holds up stockings) you can find on certain skirts (like the Patrician's). That's a fairly modern invention. Like 1920s. That's on almost every skirt/hose of crafting you can find. Or are skirts too formal?


Or were you only asking for "Modern, 2010s style, for men"?

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good points, i dont move them i just did not make my self clear. i don't say there was non at all just asked witch of them was this soon.

When ppl aren't wearing swimsuits it ruins the immersion of my "beach trip arc" that's lasted for 700 episodes and is till ongoing.

This person decided to complain about modern looking glams when we have literal MECHS in and futuristic sci-fi monsters.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

so i know its not a new topic and all but it need to be talk of much more.
the all the time incising amount of modern looking glams killing any immersion in the game. now yes there was modern looking gear/glam in the past as ell, but all of it got a fantasy touch. but in 5.x we got just normal modern looking glams that got no fantasy element to them.
now there 2 ways to "fix this problem"
1. make it so people can turn off glams from other players.
2. add more npc's to the world that wear this glams/gear.
what you think of this, you see it as a problem or don't care. how you will fix it , take them out is not a good fix as there people that do like them.
:confused:

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https://files.catbox.moe/0h0n5d.png
https://files.catbox.moe/pcz2io.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kozh

To be fair, samsara is technically correct since everything in ffxiv world is made up by aether, which basically a magical atom I guess. Ceruleum is just another form of condensed aether, like the crystals but liquid form. And tbh, while magitek is a technology, they sometimes are borderline magic as well (capable of copying the echo, the Weapons, diabolos from Bozja story).

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Arthur C Clark.
Probably before he became the first Allagan or something.