Open World PvP

As a new-ish player to FFXIV, I just have to say it: I sincerely hope that PvP doesn't become the insane hot-mess that it is in most other games (most notably, WoW).

My primary concern is PvP becoming just-popular-enough to where the development team and player base begin pushing to subtly shove players into PvP scenarios, whether they like it or not. WoW has been doing more and more of that in recent years, and it's gotten to a point where it's flat-out gross. I get that some folks like it, and I used to as well once upon a time, but after years of experience all I can say it that I see how it brings out the absolute worst in people 99% of the time.

As such, I don't feel like pushing more PvP areas on the general player base is a good idea. Keep it to instanced content so if/when PvP players want it, they go get it. I just really, REALLY hope that doesn't become a thing in this game and cause any number of the following problems:
- Just to repeat it because it bears mentioning again; anything that pushes or forces players into PvP modes without 100% consent is incredibly un-fun to non-PvPers
- Balancing PvE gameplay is challenging as it is, and in other games I've seen PvE balancing get ruined in favor of trying to make PvP more balanced; as such, I would much greatly continue playing a game that focuses more on PvE balance than PvP balance
- As others have noted, generating more PvP focus seems like it would be counter-intuitive to the majority of the attitude I see in this game; rather than focusing on cooperation and teamwork, I feel like it would result in greater frustration and griefing (as I've seen in other games)

Def not a game for open world PVP

If there is one argument that makes me wish for for PvP to happen it's the idea that all these people in this thread with a tough guy complex getting their just deserts. People aren't against PvP because they are frightened of you, it's because they can't be bothered to deal with you, big difference.

I like how people seem to think they would annoy all the ERP community, they seem to just be assuming they would win. I don't know if my ribs could take it if one of these internet bad asses came rolling into town with righteous fury then got his ass handed to him by a Roegadyn in fetish gear, I might just pass out laughing so hard.

Honestly a lot of people in this thread remind me of classic bullies, strutting about all aggressive assuming everyone is scared of them, as soon as someone loses patience though they get slapped silly.

I think it's pretty strange for some players to accuse people of supporting 'bullying' because they happen to like PvP. Especially when there's many PvP enthusiasts who adhere to a sense of good sportsmanship.

I'm inclined to think that this is just yet another case of a vocal portion of the FFXIV community seeking to engage in a type of gatekeeping that disallows growth and varied content from manifesting because they cannot handle the simple fact that other people might want to see and enjoy something different to themselves.

I'm also not at all surprised that there's players in this game who are more concerned by the idea of PvP than abhorrent, inappropriate and highly illegal acts of ERP, though!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

If there is one argument that makes me wish for for PvP to happen it's the idea that all these people in this thread with a tough guy complex getting their just deserts. People aren't against PvP because they are frightened of you, it's because they can't be bothered to deal with you, big difference.

I like how people seem to think they would annoy all the ERP community, they seem to just be assuming they would win. I don't know if my ribs could take it if one of these internet bad asses came rolling into town with righteous fury then got his ass handed to him by a Roegadyn in fetish gear, I might just pass out laughing so hard.

Honestly a lot of people in this thread remind me of classic bullies, strutting about all aggressive assuming everyone is scared of them, as soon as someone loses patience though they get slapped silly.

---

Clearly you just don't want to engage with me in a rousing bout of fisticuffs outside Ul'dah's city lines.

Hamon Holyfist would be disappointed in you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

If there is one argument that makes me wish for for PvP to happen it's the idea that all these people in this thread with a tough guy complex getting their just deserts. People aren't against PvP because they are frightened of you, it's because they can't be bothered to deal with you, big difference.

I like how people seem to think they would annoy all the ERP community, they seem to just be assuming they would win. I don't know if my ribs could take it if one of these internet bad asses came rolling into town with righteous fury then got his ass handed to him by a Roegadyn in fetish gear, I might just pass out laughing so hard.

Honestly a lot of people in this thread remind me of classic bullies, strutting about all aggressive assuming everyone is scared of them, as soon as someone loses patience though they get slapped silly.

---

Sounds pretty tough guy to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

If there is one argument that makes me wish for for PvP to happen it's the idea that all these people in this thread with a tough guy complex getting their just deserts. People aren't against PvP because they are frightened of you, it's because they can't be bothered to deal with you, big difference.

I like how people seem to think they would annoy all the ERP community, they seem to just be assuming they would win. I don't know if my ribs could take it if one of these internet bad asses came rolling into town with righteous fury then got his ass handed to him by a Roegadyn in fetish gear, I might just pass out laughing so hard.

Honestly a lot of people in this thread remind me of classic bullies, strutting about all aggressive assuming everyone is scared of them, as soon as someone loses patience though they get slapped silly.

---

Maybe. The part most people that don’t roll on pvp cannot comprehend is people that like open world pvp *enjoy* getting ganked. That tiny bit of additional danger can make everything more fun.

That and crashing a wedding takes on an entirely different meaning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it's pretty strange for some players to accuse people of supporting 'bullying' because they happen to like PvP. Especially when there's many PvP enthusiasts who adhere to a sense of good sportsmanship.

---

It requires only a single one to ruin the fun for a dozen, you should know that already from other various titles.
Besides that, PvP is always a hotbed of attitude, trolling and memes, and we really don't need this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

It requires only a single one to ruin the fun for a dozen, you should know that already from other various titles.
Besides that, PvP is always a hotbed of attitude, trolling and memes, and we really don't need this.

---

Actually, I've found the more you try and constrict something the more "toxic" it becomes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

Maybe. The part most people that don’t roll on pvp cannot comprehend is people that like open world pvp *enjoy* getting ganked. That tiny bit of additional danger can make everything more fun.

That and crashing a wedding takes on an entirely different meaning.

---

I like the possibility of something unexpected that may actually challenge me. Something that only PvP can provide; putting your skill against another actual player, rather than simply just memorizing the dance moves of PvE. It's why I have always rolled on PvP servers when possible, if a player rolls on a PvP server: they should expect to PvP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it's pretty strange for some players to accuse people of supporting 'bullying' because they happen to like PvP. Especially when there's many PvP enthusiasts who adhere to a sense of good sportsmanship.

I'm inclined to think that this is just yet another case of a vocal portion of the FFXIV community seeking to engage in a type of gatekeeping that disallows growth and varied content from manifesting because they cannot handle the simple fact that other people might want to see and enjoy something different to themselves.

I'm also not at all surprised that there's players in this game who are more concerned by the idea of PvP than abhorrent, inappropriate and highly illegal acts of ERP, though!

---

I didn't say everyone who likes PvP are bullies, so please don't strawman me. Some of the comments in this thread are clearly bullies chomping at the bit to get to people they don't like though.

The ERP is just another strawman, I didn't support that either, nor do I engage in it. I didn't make a value judgment on it in any way. I just think it would be hilarious if Elliot Ness and co stroll into Limsa to purge it only to get wrecked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

Clearly you just don't want to engage with me in a rousing bout of fisticuffs outside Ul'dah's city lines.

Hamon Holyfist would be disappointed in you.

---

Touche!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

Sounds pretty tough guy to me.

---

You should probably get your ears syringed then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

Maybe. The part most people that don’t roll on pvp cannot comprehend is people that like open world pvp *enjoy* getting ganked. That tiny bit of additional danger can make everything more fun.

That and crashing a wedding takes on an entirely different meaning.

---

I must admit I don't play MMO's for PvP, I play PvP games for PvP. In those games I've never ever met anyone who liked getting "ganged" or jumped on though. I completely disagree it would make the game more exciting, I think it would make the game more frustrating.

I think it’s pretty sad tbh that people have grown so scared of change,growth, and new things. I feel like it’s a problem that’s really only with this community as well. People have such thin skin and think everyone is out to get them. So they decide to instantly reject ideas of trying to add new fun things to the game and come up with the worst reasons to deny it, especially when people are giving different options and ways it could be implemented. Instead it seems people would rather we just keep losing content, and losing out on all sorts of different gameplay systems, and would rather they get their pretty parasols and gpose stickers. Yet i see some of the people in here are the ones saying there’s nothing wrong with advertising erp in the party finder :p interesting how that works huh...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think it’s pretty sad tbh that people have grown so scared of change,growth, and new things. I feel like it’s a problem that’s really only with this community as well. People have such thin skin and think everyone is out to get them. So they decide to instantly reject ideas of trying to add new fun things to the game and come up with the worst reasons to deny it, especially when people are giving different options and ways it could be implemented. Instead it seems people would rather we just keep losing content, and losing out on all sorts of different gameplay systems, and would rather they get their pretty parasols and gpose stickers. Yet i see some of the people in here are the ones saying there’s nothing wrong with advertising erp in the party finder :p interesting how that works huh...

---

In the perfect world you could have your PvP servers, unfortunately development time is a compromise. The entire game would have to be rebalanced to make PvP in the open world a reality. tanks and healers would have to be nerfed, massively for a start off. Nobody complains in PvE that you have good tanks and healers and over the years, due to low participation problems tanks and healers have become massively OP compared to DPS. It's not a problem in PvE but in PvP it would be, so it would have to be rebalanced along with almost every encounter and content in the game to compensate. All to get PvP servers that hardly anyone wants. That dev time is much better spent elsewhere. Honestly if PvP is so important to you then another game is your best option, it's never been a big part of FF MMO's, it's there but it's very niche side content at best and always has been. The player base that this MMO franchise has developed and maintained, since the turn of the millennium, has never been PvP focused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

It requires only a single one to ruin the fun for a dozen, you should know that already from other various titles.
Besides that, PvP is always a hotbed of attitude, trolling and memes, and we really don't need this.

---

I don't go through life shying away from situations because someone else might do something I dislike.

PvP is an entirely optional part of the game. Those who dislike it do not have to partake of it.

Even many single player games have a multiplayer experience tacked on because players enjoy interacting and competing with one another. Not every player but enough to make it worthwhile.

FFXIV already has PvP worked into the game. It could be expanded for those who enjoy it. Which, in turn, would allow for a greater variety of players to be appeased and catered to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

You don't send a request, you just locate them and make playing the game pain until they stop with their pf nonsense.

---

So basically you grief someone because you don't like their play style. I don't understand why the the PF UI and its filter is..well.. terrible... but ganking isn't going to help.

Taking our your frustration with SE with a thread or (best hope) a question in a live event is the best chance of having a feature improved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think it’s pretty sad tbh that people have grown so scared of change,growth, and new things. I feel like it’s a problem that’s really only with this community as well. People have such thin skin and think everyone is out to get them. So they decide to instantly reject ideas of trying to add new fun things to the game and come up with the worst reasons to deny it, especially when people are giving different options and ways it could be implemented. Instead it seems people would rather we just keep losing content, and losing out on all sorts of different gameplay systems, and would rather they get their pretty parasols and gpose stickers. Yet i see some of the people in here are the ones saying there’s nothing wrong with advertising erp in the party finder :p interesting how that works huh...

---

You mean like how the same people who say they are afraid to talk in game because they might get banned want to be able to grief players with ganking and open world pvp and think that won't get them banned?


Yeah OK.

Also, no one in here thinks PF erp adverts are fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

FFXIV already has PvP worked into the game. It could be expanded for those who enjoy it. Which, in turn, would allow for a greater variety of players to be appeased and catered to.

---

The development team have already announced they are doing something for PvP in the next expansion, I don't think many people have a problem with that. There is a huge difference though between improving how it works now and turning all open world content PvP. Even if you have to opt in, balance would have to be addressed for everyone, not just those who want it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

So basically you grief someone because you don't like their play style. I don't understand why the the PF UI and its filter is..well.. terrible... but ganking isn't going to help.

Taking our your frustration with SE with a thread or (best hope) a question in a live event is the best chance of having a feature improved.

---

Clearly we need to just cut the middle man and challenge Square Enix to some good old fashioned PvP, as the Gods intended.

I'll take Yoko Taro, our battle will be startlingly mediocre.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You mean like how the same people who say they are afraid to talk in game because they might get banned want to be able to grief players with ganking and open world pvp and think that won't get them banned?


Yeah OK.

Also, no one in here thinks PF erp adverts are fine.

---

Way to put words in my mouth. Never said i wanted to grief people but it seems the only way for you to weigh into a debate is for you to employ fallacies. Especially with your latter point considering a lot of the familiar faces on here were active in that thread awhile back but nice try. Next time learn to read and maybe you’ll earn a proper conversation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

Clearly we need to just cut the middle man and challenge Square Enix to some good old fashioned PvP, as the Gods intended.

I'll take Yoko Taro, our battle will be startlingly mediocre.

---

I like the way you think. SE hire this man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Way to put words in my mouth. Never said i wanted to grief people but it seems the only way for you to weigh into a debate is for you to employ fallacies. Especially with your latter point considering a lot of the familiar faces on here were active in that thread awhile back but nice try. Next time learn to read and maybe you’ll earn a proper conversation.

---

If part of this is aimed at me ( I did post a lot in the ERP thread) then I have been entirely consistent on my stance on ERP. I don't support it, I don't do it and I recommend you report it. I am also strongly against player hate mobs self policing the player base, whether that be through mass reporting groups or PvP trolling. Fallacies my friend, I see you know them well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Way to put words in my mouth. Never said i wanted to grief people but it seems the only way for you to weigh into a debate is for you to employ fallacies. Especially with your latter point considering a lot of the familiar faces on here were active in that thread awhile back but nice try. Next time learn to read and maybe you’ll earn a proper conversation.

---

There are literally people in this thread who said that is exactly why they want open world pvp.

So I'll throw that learning to read comment right back at ya.

I never said you specifically said that you wanted to grief. Maybe comprehension is a skill you should learn.

I mean, why not? Back in SWTOR, my guild and I, used to jump over the wall into one of the republic towns and kill players inside it. It was fun.

Anyway, I don't really see killing new players as "griefing" if it's done on a PvP server, and players are even capable of it in the first place: as in the game allows them to. It's different from some players in this game choosing not to heal, or not doing their role. It's completely different. Killing low levels is just unfair, but not really "griefing".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

There are literally people in this thread who said that is exactly why they want open world pvp.

So I'll throw that learning to read comment right back at ya.

I never said you specifically said that you wanted to grief. Maybe comprehension is a skill you should learn.

---

I just like to gank and be ganked. Good sportsmanship is boring. Bring your overgeared friend to beat up the other guy if you want, and basically just let things spiral out of control until someone gives up and hides.

People don’t comprehend that, and that’s fine. This game’s community is just not suited to that mindset.

It can be a lot of fun, but many many mmo players cannot fathom how that might be possible. This has been a point of contention all the way back to muds, where some people cannot handle being attacked by another player no matter how many limitations or safeguards are put in place.

This thread is amazing, so far the arguments for include, but are not limited to,

Noob bashing in cities,

Trolling gatherers out minding their own business,

Crashing player weddings and turning them into the red wedding,

Chasing ERPers around the back streets of Lominsa in a pack,

Jumping on unsuspecting players out doing daily's.

......


..........


................


Guys, you're not really selling it to everyone, nor are you doing an awful lot to suggest being an obnoxious bully isn't a key motivation for a lot of you. Claiming people who don't like the sound of that don't "comprehend" it, I assume because we're all dense, isn't really selling it either.

Crashing a wedding would be hilarious though. I don't know why anyone would get married in a game in the first place, for that matter. :p

I would love for an open world pvp servers. Joining a pvp server you should expect some pvp going on. So yes if I am out doing gathering or msq I would expect someone to find me and try to take me down. That is fun for some of us, that at any moment someone can show up to fight. Don't want to pvp then don't join a pvp server, its pretty simple.

I doubt that if SE ever does decide to add open pvp, that they would force it on every server, they would make separate servers for it. Though I doubt they will ever add it, but we can dream and hope ^.^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

This thread is amazing, so far the arguments for include, but are not limited to,

Noob bashing in cities,

Trolling gatherers out minding their own business,

Crashing player weddings and turning them into the red wedding,

Chasing ERPers around the back streets of Lominsa in a pack,

Jumping on unsuspecting players out doing daily's.

......


..........


................


Guys, you're not really selling it to everyone, nor are you doing an awful lot to suggest being an obnoxious bully isn't a key motivation for a lot of you. Claiming people who don't like the sound of that don't "comprehend" it, I assume because we're all dense, isn't really selling it either.

---

There’s a video on YouTube of a player funeral crash. Most either see that as the perfect ingame tribute with much funny or you see it as an unforgivable attack on the memory of a player.

Which way you interpret it is a good indication of whether you can comprehend open pvp or not.

Again, none of this is new. This is something Bartle observed in the long long ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Crashing a wedding would be hilarious though. I don't know why anyone would get married in a game in the first place, for that matter. :p

---

And you're the same one who claims to not have an FC and insists on playing alone. You're not going to normalize this, nor should it be. Work on yourself.

Honestly, I think they could add a zone that is PvP based that wouldn't require interaction with the normal non PvP content. You could even have dailies to earn Wolf currency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cyreil

And you're the same one who claims to not have an FC and insists on playing alone. You're not going to normalize this, nor should it be. Work on yourself.

---

I'm not sure what me playing alone has to do with any of this, but okay? There's a difference between being a part of the guild, and marrying somebody in a game. Like seriously marrying somebody online, not just doing it for the lols, or the rewards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

Honestly, I think they could add a zone that is PvP based that wouldn't require interaction with the normal non PvP content. You could even have dailies to earn Wolf currency.

---

Pretty much Cyrodiil in ESO?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cyreil

And you're the same one who claims to not have an FC and insists on playing alone. You're not going to normalize this, nor should it be. Work on yourself.

---

Not everyone wants a fc, and that’s okay. Their opinion on their choice is the only one that matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

Not everyone wants a fc, and that’s okay. Their opinion on their choice is the only one that matters.

---

Right? Me not wanting an FC has nothing to do with open world PvP, or my takes on in-game weddings. For that matter, I've participated in open world PvP by myself often anyway. Like excuse me for thinking it's weird to marry someone in an online game, and thinking it would be fun to crash it. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

There’s a video on YouTube of a player funeral crash. Most either see that as the perfect ingame tribute with much funny or you see it as an unforgivable attack on the memory of a player.

Which way you interpret it is a good indication of whether you can comprehend open pvp or not.

Again, none of this is new. This is something Bartle observed in the long long ago.

---

I've played plenty of PvP games, I can assure you I "comprehend" it. I just don't think adding PvP to a game that's been designed from day one, and balanced for 8 years around not having PvP in the open world would benefit, in any way, from it's sudden inclusion.

How fair is it, to attack a gatherer with a level 80 combat job? they can't even hope to defend themselves and now they've lost the node they just spent time and effort waiting to spawn. Who is that fun for? You say you find sportsmanship boring, well good for you. I find killing players who have no chance to fight back to be boring and pointless.

Crashing a wedding, or especially a funeral is frankly the epitome of childish toxicity. It's got nothing to do with whether you can comprehend PvP or not, and a hell of a lot to do with whether you can leave people alone to play a game in peace, in a way they enjoy that doesn't effect you in any way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

If part of this is aimed at me ( I did post a lot in the ERP thread) then I have been entirely consistent on my stance on ERP. I don't support it, I don't do it and I recommend you report it. I am also strongly against player hate mobs self policing the player base, whether that be through mass reporting groups or PvP trolling. Fallacies my friend, I see you know them well.

---

It wasn’t towards you, but again, this community sure loves to assume things. The world doesn’t revolve around you. If people don’t quote you then they most likely aren’t talking about you.

Eh...That won't really work in this game OP. PvP would have to totally be reworked as it's terrible here. The gcd makes it horrible.

That is the only system in this game that I think is a failure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

There are literally people in this thread who said that is exactly why they want open world pvp.

So I'll throw that learning to read comment right back at ya.

I never said you specifically said that you wanted to grief. Maybe comprehension is a skill you should learn.

---

Okay and that’s them. Did i say i wanted to system to be a grief fest? No. Other people have also stated that they just simply want an opt-in, but again, comprehension seems to be something you need to work on. That, or you’re purposely being oblivious to it as you only want to see this as one thing and not the other so it’s easier for you to gatekeep. Whatever the reason may be, there’s different arguments for how this would be implemented. Some people want to grief, some people just want more open world content and more fun/engaging pvp. Learn to read both sides instead of only using one to support your argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think it’s pretty sad tbh that people have grown so scared of change,growth, and new things. I feel like it’s a problem that’s really only with this community as well. People have such thin skin and think everyone is out to get them. So they decide to instantly reject ideas of trying to add new fun things to the game and come up with the worst reasons to deny it, especially when people are giving different options and ways it could be implemented. Instead it seems people would rather we just keep losing content, and losing out on all sorts of different gameplay systems, and would rather they get their pretty parasols and gpose stickers. Yet i see some of the people in here are the ones saying there’s nothing wrong with advertising erp in the party finder :p interesting how that works huh...

---

I would say that most people who came to FFxiv did not come here for pvp.

I would challenge the people here who are pushing for this, "change" to point out a mmo that was DESIGNED from the ground up, such as WoW, that has included pvp, that is well done and working properly? Where the pvp worlds/zones are healthy and populated. I see these kinda of request in non pvp centric games a lot, which always leads me to ask if you are THAT interested in pvp, why not play a game where its well done and planned for instead of trying to push it into something its clearly not designed for?

I played an mmo in the past, I cant remember which one, that did develop worlds for pvp... and then basically never did anything again for pvp. I doubt you want that here, since in that game, on the forums, even the rabid pve only people felt sorry for the poor ignored few that wanted to pvp on servers that were more broken and ignored than great aunt Matilda's jellied tongue salad at a family dinner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Eh...That won't really work in this game OP. PvP would have to totally be reworked as it's terrible here. The gcd makes it horrible.

That is the only system in this game that I think is a failure.

---

Agreed. Even if the technical issues were ironed out, the community is utterly incompatible with the concept.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It wasn’t towards you, but again, this community sure loves to assume things. The world doesn’t revolve around you. If people don’t quote you then they most likely aren’t talking about you.

---

That's why I said if. Also please be consistent, at least for one sentence. You were obviously talking about multiple people yet didn't quote anyone, making your little dig at the end, somewhat hypocritical.