Pretty much this. While I think that calling people entitled or telling them to suck it up for wanting equal treatment is a jerk move, those people have just as much of a right to post in this thread (or any thread) as anyone else.
Because quite evidently people feel as if they're being called entitled, simply on the basis that someone has an opinion differing from their own, or an opinion they don't agree with or like.
You knew what you signed up for? HE'S CALLING US ENTITLED.
I'm getting tired of these threads. HE'S CALLING US ENTITLED.
We're still talking about this, we already knew! HE'S CALLING US ENTITLED.
He disagreed with me! HE'S CALLING ME ENTITLED.
It's ironic though that I could probably search through another certain thread regarding a certain piece of content, and probably find some people here up in hissies also calling others' entitled in that other thread. People are going to get tired when the same thread is made on every single hairstyle release. A lovely picture of the hairstyle clipped straight from the patch notes with a comment of something like- Another hairstyle we can't use.
I think that when the devs say they will do something they should follow through and do it, and if there's a change in plans they should be transparent about that so players know what to expect.
It doesn't have to be a contest between players about who was promised what first and what's more important because we're not the ones making these decisions, they are.
And in both situations they are in the wrong so the ire should be directed at them.
You're right, hopefully it can be mostly contained in the Hrothgar and Viera megathread from here on out.
If there ever is a megathread to get some clarity on what happened with Egi glamour I'm sure many would also happily throw their support behind that as well, because it's long (long, looooooooooooooong) overdue.
1) not an opinion but a claim to a fact that might not be true, the purpose of which can be charitably assumed to be "please stop complaining about this."
2) Sure this is an opinion but it's a tertiary one that does not add to the thread but could detract by adding a third dimension (a meta discussion about forum etiquette) to an otherwise two dimensional (I want vs I don't want) thread.
3) A repeat of 1, perhaps? But it's not an opinion either way, it's a claim of fact that might not be true, perhaps the op is new, perhaps they're new to the conversation, perhaps the reader is new to the thread pulled up on google years later. And the purpose behind it? Well I won't assume the worst but it's hard to say it's anything productive.
4) You ran out of examples huh? Of your four examples of "people are just posting opinions and getting victim bombed," two aren't opinions, one is a tertiary (meta) opinion, and one is... Just a general "I claim it therefore it is."
To the credit of people who posted "not this again," they successfully derailed a topic from character customization updates into yet another meta commentary on dev cycles, habits, and feedback methods. Oh well, back to lurking and popcorn for me.
This has turned into a cat fight....
they wont be ehe
This was a general comment pertaining to how people seem to enjoy pawning off opinions as I highlighted. Complain about it how much you please, but does it really warrant another thread? The last thread was barely 5 pages ago. Don't need a new thread for every hairstyle they decide to release. As someone said to me on the thread about botting; probably going to fall on deaf ears, as this one will. I look forward to several threads of this very nature being made between now and 6.0, as unnecessary as it is.
There is a reason why the search function exists on a forum, so you don't need to flood the forum with a dozen of the same, or similar thread, I'm not sure someone signed up in 2017 constitutes as new. Had people stuck with a single thread and just necro'd that, it'd have likely gotten a lot more notoriety, but for a simple reason you listed below, this thread won't because now it is another meta-commentary on dev cycles and such.
No, these 4 examples were highlighted from the thread across around 7 pages. I'm not going to pull up every single comment wherein someone exhibited such behavior in a 13-page thread, do be a realist. Contrary to what I myself have even posted, and several others, one whom I replied to seemed to be implying, that there was an abundance of calling people entitled in the thread, which to my knowledge is false, and thus people were just trying to paint this narrative based on people having disagreements, or at the very least a dislike for the thread itself.
Sorry but trying to equate egi glamours with what is happening to Viera and Horthgar with respect to racial additions is a weak parallel in my view and deserves to be called out for what it is. And there is certainly no reason to call people selfish for having a different point of view than theirs.
I find it interesting that, when I responded specifically to your generalized examples of people claiming disagreement to be "you're entitled!", You open with two paragraphs about forum etiquette. I don't believe I commented on forum etiquette itself other than to say that it's a meta discussion that has no bearing on the topic. Honestly and ironically, attempting to change the English speaking forums' culture of spray and pray threads would probably be easier if someone made a mega thread specifically discussing forum etiquette rather than bringing it up every time a new thread about x has been posted. But hilariously to even that, my meta-meta complaint about this would be solved by doing the exact same thing, so the cycle continues.
Your response only becomes relevant to what I actually posted halfway through paragraph 2, and I immediately have to answer by saying that I had already stated "new" doesn't need to mean new to the forums or to the game, it could mean mean "new to the discussion." I even said "the reader directed here from a google search could be new."
You don't need to find every example in the thread either. I'm criticizing how your examples are so poorly chosen that they look like an attempt to build and break a straw man. If you only have time or room for so many examples, pick good ones or you'll just make the conversation muddier than it already was.
Yes, I did, because the need for yet another thread is completely unnecessary, and several small threads won't get the same level of attraction as a single large thread, as was already highlighted. This thread in a couple of days will die when the hype of 5.5 has set in. Then they will release a new hairstyle later on; another thread will be made, that will also result in the same, with an even larger amount of derailing from both myself and other people who get tired of the same complaint requiring the umpteenth thread.
Yes and being new to the discussion does not require an additional thread, hence why the search function exists and hence why it was highlighted, so those new to the discussion or those that want to comment on a topic aren't required to make a duplicate thread to do so. Necro a thread, it's ok, get the thread big, and it will get the attention of the people who are most inclined to make the change. so my original comment still stands, use the search function, will you?
When multiple threads are created all subsequent threads will only get further derailed.
Yes, and it still requires me to scour the entire thread. Besides, if you took the liberty of reading the original post which resulted in this entire chain, you'd notice the person was trying to create the arbitrary narrative that people were creating the "you're entitled" aura, despite the fact this has scarcely been stated or even implied. So the original strawman began there with the person trying to develop a false narrative from the people having a differing opinion, stating a fact, or otherwise disagreeing with the state of necessity of the thread as having a "you're entitled!" aura, and then subsequently going on to attempt to dismiss their further involvement in the thread. So in reality the quality of the examples isn't really relevant, because the original post where the chain of replies came from was developed on a bad pretense in the first place where they were construing the entirety of the comments not in support as being "You're entitled".
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...808-29-2019%29
Here you go :)
It is still telling people that their complaint isn't worthy enough to talk about. Despite this also was something that was promised long before the viera race was even implemented into the game. I am not sure why everyone must compare everything as if one is worthy to complain and the other should shut up about their complaints. This goes for both sides of the argument. Both have valid complaints, it serves no purpose to bicker amongst yourselves as if who has more of a right to complain.
The reason you can’t equate the two is because the only thing they share is that they are both something that Yoship said they would do and then didn’t deliver on.
However, it’s not as if all of the other classes are getting skill glams and egis are still being ignored. At the end of the day that IS what SMNs are asking for - skill glams. But nobody else gets this, so what you’re asking for is special treatment. You still get weapons and gear like everyone else.
Viera and Hrothgar aren’t asking for special treatment. We are asking to get anything at all, while the other races get showered every patch with cosmetics (whether you personally like them or not) and gear we can’t use. It feels bad to be told you will get something, and then not get it because apparently they don’t have time, only to have everyone else around you get it in spades. For years. Also, Hroth still have to pay to change their hair which is something no other race has to do, and the devs still haven’t fixed that either. So yeah, it’s a bit different than egis. I do think they should still make good on their promise to SMN because they said they’d do it, but it’s not the same situation that viera and hrothgar are in at all.
They can certainly create their own thread about it but sorry it doesn't relate to the state of affairs that Viera and Hrothgar are currently experiencing. They can certainly complain but please trying to use that as a means of trying to shut off the complaints in this thread since they didn't get what they were promised is weak at best.
Thank you.
For EGIs I can understand not getting new egi models but they could AT LEAST have someone throw together a proper UI for handling egi glamours rather than having uses use TEXT COMMANDS to swap between them.
Just gonna regurgitate what I said in another thread on this topic:
- Band together with everyone who is up in arms over this under one thread so it can continue to grow and get the attention of staff. Breaking it up into multiple threads doesnt help much since we already know that they care more about threads with hundreds of pages.
- Affect their profits in a way that they have to notice and are forced to acknowledge that this is an issue that is affecting their finances.
- Reach out to media and get the story more public in a way that they have to notice and are forced to acknowledge that this is an issue affecting their reputation.
Bottom line:
If they're not talking about it or viewing it as an issue, do more about it to get their attention. Clearly the way it has been done so far isn't working.
Paragraphs 1 and partially 2: Those are arguments I have never made. Have I posted something to give you the impression I value thousands of threads on the same topic? Yes, scattershot threads don't work but you're not exactly helping anything by preaching to the choir in one of those scattershot threads. Clearly there is a culture that influences people's decisions to make these repeat threads instead of necroing, but that won't be addressed by an equally scatter shot response to it.
Par 2 pt2: You're right, being new to the discussion doesn't necessitate a new thread. I'm not averse to necroing either. But for the person who googles asking why viera have no new hairstyles, and finds this thread, they're gonna see a lot of unhelpful stuff because of the metacommentary on forum etiquette. And yes if there were megathreads that wouldn't be a problem, but that's not a problem that gets solved by entering every repeat thread with a conversation about forum etiquette.
In any case, we only agree about forum etiquette here. None of it relates back to my original comment to you though, none of it is an interesting discussion to have because it's been had so many times now and will continue to be had as pointlessly and scatter shot as the threads they appear in, so going back to my original point...
Final paragraph: So...it's tit for tat? Erecting a strawman isn't really a good answer to a strawman imo. That's a good way to kill a discussion through polarizing people against each other. But anyway, I've said my piece, and you seem more interested in talking about the issue of scatter shot threads anyway so I'll get out of your hair and back to lurking. Have an excellent day.
We’ve at least taken your advice on the first part- there is now a megathread (started after this one). :)
The profits are a little harder to manage because short of not subbing or buying the cosmetics that have hair attached, there’s not really anything we can do. With both of those options, there’s no way for them to know the reason behind the decision. Subs are impacted by tons of things. And not buying cosmetics with hair attached could be chalked up to just not liking it, and that doesn’t account for many of us who already bought those sets before ShB. The only thing that is directly related to race that they could really account for is fantasia sales. Unfortunately in this case, not buying a fantasia indicates we are happy with the product, and buying a fantasia rewards SE for being unhappy with the product.
You have some good and productive ideas. The media one in particular is something I hadn’t considered before I saw you mention it in the last thread. Just wanted to say I appreciate it since I missed the chance to do so last time. Hopefully the megathread is a good start. And honestly I’m hoping with the expansion looming and fanfest around the corner that we won’t have to be upset about it for too much longer either way. But I thought that before every patch in ShB too, and we all know how that has turned out, lol.
Now you're just being anal about you think is more important between the two things. The point flew right above your head.
Yes, I agree hairstyles for a playable race should hold higher priority on the dev's backlog. But the point me and many is trying to point out is SE is known by now to add things to the game with the "promise" that they will come back to add things to said system or feature in future patches. As a consumer and customer I expect that to happen in the near future. Not 5+ years down the line.
Now I hope to us to get both hairstyles for your vieras and egiglamour for us summoners (and hopefully scholars) as well. I'm done talking about this cause it's like talking to the void.
Did they say they would add new hairstyle specifically in SHB or just in later patches?
No it didn't. I got it loud and clear. You didn't get what you want so Viera and Hrothgar shouldn't expect it as well. Lets be sure to use that as an reason for telling people in this thread not to expect any racial additions.
Glad you agree.
Metacommentary on forum etiquette wouldn't exist in the first place if people didn't feel the need to create duplicate threads every single time we have a hairstyle.
Oh dear, let me pay special attention to this last bit. No the use of those examples were not tit for tat, contrary to your belief and neither was it a strawman, not even remotely, those examples were used expressly to highlight the absurdity of the claim that the original post was made by even trying to make the comment that any of the "you're entitled"; which hasn't even been exhibited in the entire thread, either implied or explicit and to show they were mischaracterizing the comments being made by people, construing them as "They're calling us entitled". Perhaps I should've explicitly mentioned this in my original post. But then I feel had you took the liberty to read the initial post resulting in this chain of replies, you probably would have understood.
Money > amount of people playing viera/hroth in the company's eyes, by fantaing and giving them money to another race you are endorsing them not giving you hairstyles because:
A. You are basically clapping for them adding new hairstyles to other races except yours by fantaing to that race because of the new hairstyle, meaning that them giving other races hairstyles and not your works for profit.
B. If the viera playerbase is small why would the company bother catering to them? As long as the release stuff for the majority (aka in that situation other races) and please the majority with new additions they will feel good with themselves.
Just give Viera a super desirable hairstyle and never give it to any other race ever.
Give them Tifa's or A2's hairdo and when people complain about it we can say "just fantasia :^)"