I appear to have already missed the boat on bozja

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Originally Posted by Driavna

That's intentional and not something that should be fixed.

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Considering you can get 3 weapons done outside of Bozja in the time it takes to grind one out in Bozja? Yes, I think that's an issue. And I think it should be fixed. I think we should be able to gain them at the same rate in the instance.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Considering you can get 3 weapons done outside of Bozja in the time it takes to grind one out in Bozja? Yes, I think that's an issue. And I think it should be fixed. I think we should be able to gain them at the same rate in the instance.

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I think the choice is meant to be between:

1. Play Bozja and make progress in Bozja - earning mettle and coins - alongside earning memories.

2. Efficiently gather memories via FATEs but miss out on making progress in Bozja.

Half-and-half on two type of progress or all-in on the other.

It seems to me that the best path would be to do Bozja first (to whatever rank is ultimately required for progress, or using it to level classes) then use FATEs to earn the remainder of the memories you need.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think the choice is meant to be between:
1. Play Bozja for the sake of playing Bozja - earning mettle and coins - with a side effect of earning memories.

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No the fates were for the people who didn't want to play Borza and who complained incessently that Eureka was the only way for them to get relic. They gave those people the option to earn relics without going to Front while at the same time giving those who actually play the content a harder time of earning those weapons in the zone.

i wouldn't have so much of a problem with cluster farms if mobs actually gave some xp like they did in Eureka. I have a Gilga toon I just got to R12 and she has a grand total of 29 memories. She has 5 roles and weapons I'd like to get for her by patch. My options at the moment in zone are to get her to R15 and then do clusters to earn the memories. I haven't checked since the announcement but fate farms have been pretty dead for some time and earning 60 memories from fate farming alone is significant effort.

My point is that the drop rate for memories from Skirmishes and CE's in zone sucks majorly and shouldn't be the case in my view. We all know nerfs are coming and hopefully the drop rate in zone will be one of them. I've done relic for too long to know that's inevitable.

On a side note this evening on Aether at least a number of Castrum runs have been running one or which was helped by a preformed group. The rush to get it done before patch has begun. I know personally I wasn't prepared for 5.45 to hit next week.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Considering you can get 3 weapons done outside of Bozja in the time it takes to grind one out in Bozja? Yes, I think that's an issue. And I think it should be fixed. I think we should be able to gain them at the same rate in the instance.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think the choice is meant to be between:

1. Play Bozja for the sake of playing Bozja - earning mettle and coins - with a side effect of earning memories.

2. Efficiently gather memories via FATEs but miss out on making progress in Bozja.

It seems to me that the best path would be to do Bozja first (to whatever rank is ultimately required for progress, or using it to level classes) then use FATEs to earn the remainder of the memories you need.

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Given the presupposition that Eureka 2.0 needs to be 'the way' to get relics I suppose I understand people but given just a sort of impartial emotionless review of the info I really don't think making Bozja 1:1 as quick as 'those other options' is the right sense of balance.

With FATEs you pretty much JUST get the relic progress meanwhile you get more with Bozja.

If we have two pie charts that add to 100%, then Bozja would be like 50 50 or something and FATEs 100. This makes math sense. I see people keep suggesting that Bozja should be 150% and FATEs be 100% (or some people feel even worse). Percentages obviously don't translate perfectly but it was just a rough example of how one provides more than just the idea of a relic, perhaps if we looked at it like item stats. Bozja gives you +2 strength +1 - 1.5 agility. Meanwhile FATEs give you +2 agility.

I wouldn't be greatly annoyed if FATEs were equal to Bozja, just that I think what SE did actually makes a lot of math sense (even if the balance still needs to be tweaked). In so much that when people say it should be equal then to me that says that FATEs should be clearly the WORSE decision. And it's quite clear to me so far at least that SE was like "you've two options and they've got their own benefits, have at it" and SE wasn't like "you've got a bad choice and a good choice, don't be stupid".

So... I'm preferential that they keep both choices having their own thing, but I can see how the balance still doesn't feel quite exactly right (but I also don't really "feel" that 1:1 is honestly even fair, since that then makes FATEs clearly the "bad" choice).

Also we all know that SE did this out of player request, some players hate the concept of Eureka but still wanted a relic - SE 'generally' obliged them (so far at least lol). Of course someone may suggest 'I liked the idea of Eureka but the only reason why I'd run it so much is JUST for relic, so if you don't make it a good choice for relic then I don't want to run it'... so we start getting towards a no one will win situation but.. yeah.. and like I said they could perhaps sweeten the Bozja pot a little and perhaps make it a little bit more approachable (as they add the new area) so maybe those who hate the Eureka concept can slide in easier and maybe change their mind (but still have a 'fair' option if they don't).


Edit: I just quoted you Iscah to continue the thought, not to disagree, if you were like 'ye... ...?'.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No the fates were for the people who didn't want to play Borza and who complained incessently that Eureka was the only way for them to get relic. They gave those people the option to earn relics without going to Front while at the same time giving those who actually play the content a harder time of earning those weapons in the zone.

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Isn't that essentially what I said? Progress Bozja while working on your relic, or just work on your relic with no other benefit.

But I've reworded my post to be clearer, I hope.

Once you hit rank 15 the relic items should get a 100% droprate.
So all those who don't have to do fates to rank up will do them again and new players don't have to deal alone with fates.

All they have to do to fix castrum since its required my story is attach an EXP reward to it. Once they added coins to critical engagements, they effectively killed off the large scale content that is meant to progress the relic storyline...effectively locking out anyone who didn't do it during its original rush either because they didn't have the time or some other reason.

I completed castrum, but stopped at level 13. The critical engagements dont really give EXP that would be justified doing that without making it feel really grindy (or maybe that fixed that. I haven't done bozja since late Nov/early Dec)

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Originally Posted by Akimori

I completed castrum, but stopped at level 13. The critical engagements dont really give EXP that would be justified doing that without making it feel really grindy (or maybe that fixed that. I haven't done bozja since late Nov/early Dec)

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It feels grindy, but it sure as heck can be a lot faster to level in there even without the Bozjan earrings, than dungeons.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It feels grindy, but it sure as heck can be a lot faster to level in there even without the Bozjan earrings, than dungeons.

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I have all of my classes capped, so that part of the grind is not pertaining to me. Im talking about the grind to rank up in Bozja after lvl 11 I believe is when the EXP needed took a huge jump

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Originally Posted by Akimori

I have all of my classes capped, so that part of the grind is not pertaining to me. Im talking about the grind to rank up in Bozja after lvl 11 I believe is when the EXP needed took a huge jump

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Exp (mettle) scales. It doesn't take that long. Do CE's and FATEs in zone 3/2. I was down 130k mettle this morning (level 15) got it back in about an hour, or an hour and a half. Took a bit longer because CEs weren't happening too often in that instance.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Exp (mettle) scales. It doesn't take that long. Do CE's and FATEs in zone 3/2. I was down 130k mettle this morning (level 15) got it back in about an hour, or an hour and a half. Took a bit longer because CEs weren't happening too often in that instance.

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Took me about a month of casually doing it and I'm still only rank 14. And simply saying "Do zones 2 and 3" isn't realistic when you consider the fates pop based on zone population.

If CE's are funneling everyone into zone 1, then zone 1 FATES are going to be popping. I've seen zone three completely empty, 1 fate in zone two and 2 or 3 in zone 1 more than I'd like to count. This is why the FATES in any zone should give the same exp.

Because the players aren't in any way in direct control of the FATES.

Edit: Went in today and it literally happened again.

http://imgur.com/JxvXvi5.jpg

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think the choice is meant to be between:

1. Play Bozja and make progress in Bozja - earning mettle and coins - alongside earning memories.

2. Efficiently gather memories via FATEs but miss out on making progress in Bozja.

Half-and-half on two type of progress or all-in on the other.

It seems to me that the best path would be to do Bozja first (to whatever rank is ultimately required for progress, or using it to level classes) then use FATEs to earn the remainder of the memories you need.

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This I think is the intention.. although I’d say the fates weren’t needed at all personally but I think they wanted to drive participation in those zones and this was an easy way to do so.

But I levelled a relic entirely in bozja maybe two hours after I capped out the rank there. So if you’re doing Bozja anyway you may as well just do it all there.

For repeated relics when you have what you need from bozja though, it’s too inefficient in comparison.

I'm on my third relic and one specific memory fragment is NOT dropping for me at all in Bozja, so I have to go out and get it in world FATEs. I think I'm at Rank 11 or 12, but it got to the point I was so frustrated with being there, I didn't go back. I still have to farm about 150 clusters still, so I might try again. But if it's turning out to be like it was, I'm never going back. It's just a waste of time for me if I can't get the memory fragment I need.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Took me about a month of casually doing it and I'm still only rank 14. And simply saying "Do zones 2 and 3" isn't realistic when you consider the fates pop based on zone population.

If CE's are funneling everyone into zone 1, then zone 1 FATES are going to be popping. I've seen zone three completely empty, 1 fate in zone two and 2 or 3 in zone 1 more than I'd like to count. This is why the FATES in any zone should give the same exp.

Because the players aren't in any way in direct control of the FATES.

Edit: Went in today and it literally happened again.

http://imgur.com/JxvXvi5.jpg

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Yeah, optimally, you go to zone 3. Turn in 7, leave. If there is a FATE in zone 2 do that one, a new zone 3 FATE should now pop, go do that one. You don't even need to stay for the entire duration, just hit it enough to get gold and leave. Also, you seem to be on primal. I am as well. I can tell you when I go into bozja, I almost never do FATEs in zone 1. I alternate between zone 3/2. Prioritizing 3. I was in bozja for 3 hours this morning from around 6 am EST. I barely did any FATEs in zone 1 (finishing PLD). If you are doing zone 1 FATEs for mettle - you are wasting your time.

If you don't like doing FATEs you can also just semi-afk in base, and wait for CEs to pop. I have gotten 100k mettle back doing that as well, more than once.

I can wait to take a screenshot with no FATEs up at all and post it here too. You wait at an aetheryte for a zone 3 FATE to pop and go there. I am being serious about that too. Don't waste your time with zone 1 FATEs. In the time it would take to travel and do those FATEs aside from the ones near base - and even then, you could miss out on a zone 3 or zone 2 FATE, or more. It's not worth it. It is literally better off waiting a minute at an aetheryte for one to pop.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I can wait to take a screenshot with no FATEs up at all and post it here too. You wait at an aetheryte for a zone 3 FATE to pop and go there. I am being serious about that too. Don't waste your time with zone 1 FATEs. In the time it would take to travel and do those FATEs aside from the ones near base - and even then, you could miss out on a zone 3 or zone 2 FATE, or more. It's not worth it. It is literally better off waiting a minute at an aetheryte for one to pop.

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Are you? Those 3 fates at the bottom are worth one fate up top. And as you can see there was no middle and one top one. I had already hit my minimum so I moved.

I mean, if you want to be lazy and afk your way to Rank 15, that's on you but I play a game to play it, not sit there and be bored.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Are you? Those 3 fates at the bottom are worth one fate up top. And as you can see there was no middle and one top one. I had already hit my minimum so I moved.

I mean, if you want to be lazy and afk your way to Rank 15, that's on you but I play a game to play it, not sit there and be bored.

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Three FATEs that you won't necessarily get to in time to get gold, for one. And two how many zone 3 or zone 2 FATEs could or would pop in the meantime. Using this screenshot, I could go up turn in 7, go back down do the FATE near Olana's stand, go back up do a zone 3 FATE, or a zone 2 FATE. Alternatively, you can AOE that FATE near Olana's stand a couple times (on tank) enough for gold, and travel to camp steva to turn in 7 - but just that one near the aetheryte, the others are a waste of time. Trust me, I play the game. When I afk, it's because I am doing other stuff in the background, usually in another tab. I hear when the CE sound goes off and I register. You seem to be set in your ways though, so what can you do. I'm not gonna "compel" you to change. :p

No, I am not afking to only do zone 3/2 FATEs. Usually I have to rush to zone 3 FATEs otherwise I won't get there in time and get no gold. It's a constant back and forth between these zones. Almost no downtime. A lot of the time I don't even have time to make it back to base and open lockboxes or whatever, because I need to keep moving to get golds, as many golds as I can. I also do it solo, I don't bother with FATE parties.

Well, if I read the 5.45 patch notes right, Castrum Lacus Litore is gonna get some more active action because it is probably gonna need to be completed start the 5.45 relic steps. In addition, there may be additional rewards from the place that they hopefully added too.

I'm not sure I like that the start of the 5.45 Relic/Resistance is locked behind Bozja (at least until the halfway point) and I'm like Rank 8 so it's going to be a while for me to do Bozja. I don't really do it much as I like collecting the memories outside of Bozja for its 100% drop rate for Gold Medals. I got both my NIN and PLD done and working on my WHM next along with collecting all of the other memories for every weapon.

It feels like a dirty move by SE to keep Bozja relevant. I didn't like the Relics tied to Eurek, because of how ridiculous the drop rates were in in that instance and having a dedicated zone for Relics seems like a Relic Killer to me.

Yeah...apparently they didn’t learn from Eureka. Tying the next step of the relic to Bozja isn’t going to make people do Bozja; they’ll just stop doing the relic like they did with Eureka.

I'm going to try. I want to see the Story of Bozja, but I want to finish my Relic. I've done so for every Expansion so far (at least one of them, mainly the NIN), but this is getting annoying.

I sure hope 6.0 does not do this again. I'm not that good at Savage unless unsync'd with my FC and I dislike all the memory game involved.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I'm going to try. I want to see the Story of Bozja, but I want to finish my Relic. I've done so for every Expansion so far (at least one of them, mainly the NIN), but this is getting annoying.

I sure hope 6.0 does not do this again. I'm not that good at Savage unless unsync'd with my FC and I dislike all the memory game involved.

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I'm not keen on this open zone content either, especially if it's a choice between it and extra dungeons.

Dungeons go in the expert roulette. Bozja does not. Therefore dungeons add more ongoing interest to the game in a way that open zones don't.

(It has occurred to me that 50/60/70 roulette is double-skewed towards level 50 dungeons because even if everyone is eligible to do all content, there are simply more dungeons at that level than there are at 60 or 70.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm not keen on this open zone content either, especially if it's a choice between it and extra dungeons.

Dungeons go in the expert roulette. Bozja does not. Therefore dungeons add more ongoing interest to the game in a way that open zones don't.

(It has occurred to me that 50/60/70 roulette is double-skewed towards level 50 dungeons because even if everyone is eligible to do all content, there are simply more dungeons at that level than there are at 60 or 70.)

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I guess the whole Diadem/Eureka/Bozja/Hunts/Blu/Shared Fates has been a neverending saga to get people out of df and into the world. I can't say I disagree with the intent, but the convenience of DF is really difficult to overturn.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I guess the whole Diadem/Eureka/Bozja/Hunts/Blu/Shared Fates has been a neverending saga to get people out of df and into the world. I can't say I disagree with the intent, but the convenience of DF is really difficult to overturn.

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also the jank (managing lost actions, eureka's finnicky elements, pre-shb diadem) and ironic isolation for their field content (tends to "dry up" fairly quickly as people get their Thing and then abandon it wholesale) makes it hard to get into it after the initial 2 weeks or so :/

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Personally I can't even get that far. It's been very difficult to find a stable party to do fates with.

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Oh god ...you’re still alive ?

I really liked castrum much more than a regular duty finder thing. I like that you can set up parties inside and it feels more like a ‘raid’ than Eden or something does to me.

It was just inherently flawed in several ways but I thought the content itself was really good.

Also the way to keep these places active is to constantly change the rewards and keep it a high reward. Think treasure maps. People still do them because it’s always profitable to do so.

Castrums main problem was it was too low reward for too much effort.

so the relic weapons have a bozja grind now to 10 https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...a2070ed1b8e41b

I suggest everyone complain on the Exploratory Missions forum as well about SE breaking their promise that we wouldn't have to grind Bozja itself for the relics.
I have a vague feeling they read that one more than General, even though General has 10,000x the activity in NA.

Well for the most part Devs haven't lied, they stated several times that bozja was "Story" would be required for relic a long while back. As for grind really is not much to rank 10, only real hurtle is castrum if you miss the boat and from what I understand the amount of mettle for the new raid basically the amount needed to get to rank 10 anyway so yeah.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Also the way to keep these places active is to constantly change the rewards and keep it a high reward. Think treasure maps. People still do them because it’s always profitable to do so.

Castrums main problem was it was too low reward for too much effort.

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HUGE difference between Treasure Maps and Castrum.

You can almost sleep through a Treasure Map dungeon. Almost
Castrum? Gotta farm for Lost Actions if you get a bad comp (which would be nice if they were in lockboxes along with your fireworks). Gotta organize the random people you get put in with.

You'd have to make it an astronomical reward.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I suggest everyone complain on the Exploratory Missions forum as well about SE breaking their promise that we wouldn't have to grind Bozja itself for the relics.
I have a vague feeling they read that one more than General, even though General has 10,000x the activity in NA.

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They said this would be the case back in the Live Letter in May.

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Weapons can be upgraded through two methods.
One involves upgrading them as you progress through the Bozjan Southern Front, while the other involves upgrading weapons through different means. Whichever method you choose, you’ll be required to progress the Save the Queen storyline.

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I haven't done Castrum yet either because I didn't rush it when it came out so I'm not exactly thrilled either, but they didn't lie.

Source: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...805-01-2020%29

The point is that one of the big complaints about Eureka was being forced to do it to get the relic weapon.
SE now going "don't worry, you have another option on how to get your relic this time!" only to put "but you're still forced to do Bozja eventually, tehe" in the fine print is deliberately misleading, and honstly just as bad as flat out lying.

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

The point is that one of the big complaints about Eureka was being forced to do it to get the relic weapon.
SE now going "don't worry, you have another option on how to get your relic this time!" only to put "but you're still forced to do Bozja eventually, tehe" in the fine print is deliberately misleading, and honstly just as bad as flat out lying.

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Castrum participation will probably drop off a cliff again once the next batch of people get through it so it'll still be a massive roadblock to finishing your relic, I don't like Bozja at all and I'm not looking forward to doing Castrum either.

But they didn't break any promises and it wasn't exactly in fine print, it's been right there all along. I think most people just ignored that bit.

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...61/unknown.png

You aslo have to do the new 24 man too, this is the quest that is required for the next relic step.

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Originally Posted by OrpheusKappa

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...61/unknown.png

You aslo have to do the new 24 man too, this is the quest that is required for the next relic step.

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Oh, great... :rolleyes:

The new raid is pretty fantastic. Great raid design, great time playing! Unfortunately, the next relic grind is horrific. Either, apparently, 15 crystal tower raids (LoTA..), or CEs, for the new memories. However, CEs only offer a CHANCE of dropping 1 of the 15 memories you need. I did 3 CEs over a period of 45 minutes and got 1 memory!

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Originally Posted by OrpheusKappa

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...61/unknown.png

You aslo have to do the new 24 man too, this is the quest that is required for the next relic step.

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Well see for DR, I dont mind it. You will always have the correct amount of people. Only thing you have to worry about it party comp, but the bosses in there are in such a way that you can still make it. You so have to do DR weekly for something, so people will be in there.
Castrum on the other hand you are at the whim of who wants to do it or not, when most of the time people are in there to do Skirmishes/CEs.
Off topic but DR was pretty fun doing blind, we wiped on the 4 guards once but definitely a fun time.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Well see for DR, I dont mind it. You will always have the correct amount of people. Only thing you have to worry about it party comp, but the bosses in there are in such a way that you can still make it. You so have to do DR weekly for something, so people will be in there.
Castrum on the other hand you are at the whim of who wants to do it or not, when most of the time people are in there to do Skirmishes/CEs.
Off topic but DR was pretty fun doing blind, we wiped on the 4 guards once but definitely a fun time.

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Yeah not worried about DR, sounds fun new content to me. Just added a psa for the people who did not like bozja but want their relics since there is a good amount of them.

Seeing as I haven't even done Castrum yet and lost interest collecting memories for the first phase of the relic, at this point I figure I am screwed. Doubt I will get anyone to do Castrum and by the time I get to the new raid no one will be doing it either.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

The new raid is pretty fantastic. Great raid design, great time playing! Unfortunately, the next relic grind is horrific. Either, apparently, 15 crystal tower raids (LoTA..), or CEs, for the new memories. However, CEs only offer a CHANCE of dropping 1 of the 15 memories you need. I did 3 CEs over a period of 45 minutes and got 1 memory!

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Theoretically the plan is probably that you'll be doing CEs as you level ranks 10-15 after doing Castrum at 10, but we don't get to see the big picture yet. :/