Please don't delay Savage Raid Releases

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Originally Posted by linayar

Competition doesn't matter for a casual content and group conflict is the group's issue, not the game. If there are people who are ready day 1, there is no reason to make them wait because other people can't find a group that they can work a schedule with, and seeing as how it's casual content, they can take their time finding a group that will be accommodating to their interest.

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Still, almost everybody wants to do the new content the same day it pops, so a delay on Savage would erase the extra stress that some members would have. It's called empathy.

This person gave a very valid point, and I recommend you to re-read it until you understand it:

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

People take time off work to join in the raid. Being part of a raid team means you’re accountable for not wasting their time as much as not wasting your own. A delay is a positive thing like countless people have said, it allows people to make sure they’re using and actually enjoying the content the devs have spent time to make. That’s not to mention time allowed to sort out crafting, prep for raids etc etc. Arguing against a delay “cos you don’t like it” isn’t a valid argument at all

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm fully convinced they're a troll at this point. Don't acknowledge them anymore, don't talk to them anymore, put them on ignore.

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I hope this message is not about me D: I'm talking seriously

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Still, almost everybody wants to do the new content the same day it pops, so a delay on Savage would erase the extra stress that some members would have. It's called empathy.

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Empathy goes both ways. This is a game, so it's not like either side is in the right. It's about preference.

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This person gave a very valid point, and I recommend you to re-read it until you understand it:

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That person made a point that I understand, but I disagree with their point. People do have a responsibility to their group, but that's why you find a group that has the same expectations and goals. If people want to enjoy content, they shouldn't be made to feel guilty as if they're wasting people's time when they're just enjoying what the game gives them.

It's one thing if the group wants to raid, but one member insists they have to do the MSQ first. That would be wrong for that person and where the accountability comes in. But if people do want to raid, but some want to watch cutscenes for the normal version, that should be acceptable. And if it's not, then it's just not the right group.

I honestly think the world first race would be a lot more interesting if it kicked off with everyone fully prepared after a free week prior because there's a fairly significant timesink in preparing the new crafted gear/food before jumping in, so teams that can offload that responsibility to others while they rush into attempting savage naturally have an advantage.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I honestly think the world first race would be a lot more interesting if it kicked off with everyone fully prepared after a free week prior because there's a fairly significant timesink in preparing the new crafted gear/food before jumping in, so teams that can offload that responsibility to others while they rush into attempting savage naturally have an advantage.

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That's assuming they won't also delay new crafted gear/food/potion/tomestone.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I honestly think the world first race would be a lot more interesting if it kicked off with everyone fully prepared after a free week prior because there's a fairly significant timesink in preparing the new crafted gear/food before jumping in, so teams that can offload that responsibility to others while they rush into attempting savage naturally have an advantage.

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Yeah, every world-first attempter would have the same chances vs the big teams that craft stuff for them while they raid. The more competition the better!

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Originally Posted by linayar

That's assuming they won't also delay new crafted gear/food/potion/tomestone.

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Even if they did, let’s imagine they did delay the tomestone and crafted items. It at least allows people to play the content leisurely. Do the three separate stories (yes three) and the trial and the normal mode raid. That’s a lot of content people don’t want to skip because one or two people are impatient

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

I hope this message is not about me D: I'm talking seriously

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Oh that wasn't about you, but about Iinayar.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Empathy goes both ways. This is a game, so it's not like either side is in the right. It's about preference.

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Not if one way makes the other one impossible, skipping every bit of story and let msq aside is done and you might get spoiled or miss stuff, even if you later rewatch everything possible later on...

If you release savage a week later everyone would have a more even startingpoint, id even say we could delay the ex trial as well, but i gues that would be too much. Heck if you have to delay the tome as well, we got so many weeks, nothing is lost if we just slow down a bit.

Even more bonus, savage players who dont care for story dont need to log during the patchdays and can do stuff later, having less stress on the servers on release...
Crafted gear would even out more, no 4 mill sells on the first 1-2 days followed by a dump to 700k lol

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

Even if they did, let’s imagine they did delay the tomestone and crafted items. It at least allows people to play the content leisurely. Do the three separate stories (yes three) and the trial and the normal mode raid. That’s a lot of content people don’t want to skip because one or two people are impatient

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If they did delay those as well, why run the new dungeon more than 1st time, the gear is outdated, no new tomestones to get, minion? Just wait a week and try and get it while capping. This also dimishes the hunts a little since most do hunt trains to either get materia or cap, normal raids become flooded as the best place to do anything to progress your character's ilv for lowest difficulty, Extreme would feel mandatory to everyone for 1st week since it would have the best piece of equipment in that week which may cause a chain effect down the line to make Extremes even easier(we love to moan after all :p).

Delaying savage I have no issues with, it is delaying tomestones that I am against, it affects far more people negatively (forced to stay subbed 1 week longer, lowers value of new content) than those who raid would be benefited from both delayed.

It's important to remember it's not just about hardcore World first racers. That week 1 experience where everyone is blind and figuring it out and it's new and exciting only happens once, then it's gone and over for the entire tier. Sure you can try to make blind run groups but it's just not the same, if they even fill in the first place. The guides exist, it's no longer new and it's more intentionally putting a handicap on yourself to try and create something resembling that feeling.

It's not about statics putting pressure either, it's about wanting to be there with your static week one and ready to go, so you'll sacrifice MSQ or Normal mode such for that. But the sacrifice needn't be necessary.

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Originally Posted by linayar

That's assuming they won't also delay new crafted gear/food/potion/tomestone.

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Doesn't really matter, at least you got to enjoy the MSQ, EX trial and Normal mode.

I absolutely don't want the delay. Not because I'm some hardcore raider but because I want some new raid content. My static got all our clears we needed, took a break, and then we got this massive waiting period due to COVID. I've been wanting the final raid tier for months and I cannot wait to get back in to a new savage tier. My static is going in on patch day and I cannot wait. Tuesday can't come fast enough.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I absolutely don't want the delay. Not because I'm some hardcore raider but because I want some new raid content. My static got all our clears we needed, took a break, and then we got this massive waiting period due to COVID. I've been wanting the final raid tier for months and I cannot wait to get back in to a new savage tier. My static is going in on patch day and I cannot wait. Tuesday can't come fast enough.

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It's all about delay for further Raid Tiers starting 6.x, not this one.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

It's all about delay for further Raid Tiers starting 6.x, not this one.

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My point still stands, I want the content available to me right away.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

My point still stands, I want the content available to me right away.

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If all the tiers are delayed by a week, then the time in-between the tiers remains the same.
Like whaaaa?

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

My point still stands, I want the content available to me right away.

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You must really hate the expansion launches then, when you have to wait even longer.

It’s a much better idea to have the raids available right away so that guides can be made available for more casual players. Heck, when I was a newb I’d always wait at least a week for guides to come out so I didn’t feel totally useless.

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Originally Posted by Dreufo

It’s a much better idea to have the raids available right away so that guides can be made available for more casual players. Heck, when I was a newb I’d always wait at least a week for guides to come out so I didn’t feel totally useless.

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The point is to help people who doesn't have enough time to complete the prep-work for Savage, and I know that "you don't have to do it the first day bla bla bla" but it's 8-man content, and some people will feel forced to complete fast that prep-work and skip cutscenes and stuff, and I know you can just look for a different group of people, but that's not a solution but an inconvinient.

Guides will come anyways, but at least people will have a full week to complete the content at their own pace, and the small teams of hardcore raiders will get to craft everything and start the competition with the same gear as the big teams. It's a win-win solution, imo.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Not if one way makes the other one impossible, skipping every bit of story and let msq aside is done and you might get spoiled or miss stuff, even if you later rewatch everything possible later on...

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Skipping every bit of story aside is a personal choice, one that wouldn't be necessary if others are empathetic enough to understand why one might want to not skip the story, at least for the raid.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's not about statics putting pressure either, it's about wanting to be there with your static week one and ready to go, so you'll sacrifice MSQ or Normal mode such for that. But the sacrifice needn't be necessary.

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The sacrifice shouldn't be necessary either way.

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Doesn't really matter, at least you got to enjoy the MSQ, EX trial and Normal mode.

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

Even if they did, let’s imagine they did delay the tomestone and crafted items. It at least allows people to play the content leisurely. Do the three separate stories (yes three) and the trial and the normal mode raid. That’s a lot of content people don’t want to skip because one or two people are impatient

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Ok, just not what I was responding to.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

If all the tiers are delayed by a week, then the time in-between the tiers remains the same.
Like whaaaa?

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Indeed, but as a non-Savage raider, it doesn't feel good to finally get new content, but without all the new rewards to go along with it. The .0x patch can get away with it because it has two tomestones.

New rewards? You just said you don’t raid so the rewards from the raid do not effect you. They have zero impact on your ability to do content. You’re against savage being delayed so that you can get rewards you can’t use and don’t need?

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

New rewards? You just said you don’t raid so the rewards from the raid do not effect you. They have zero impact on your ability to do content. You’re against savage being delayed so that you can get rewards you can’t use and don’t need?

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I'm assuming tomestones and the likes are delayed as well.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I'm assuming tomestones and the likes are delayed as well.

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There's not much reason to delay anything else alongside savage.
Crafting: That's a major reason to delay it, so that people have a chance to craft gear before it in a reasonable time frame.
Tomestones: At most you could get either one extra accessory, or upgrade your one accessory into a left-side piece of gear. This is at most increasing your overall ilvl by 1.
All they'd have to do to account for this, if they even felt they had to, is increase the DPS check by about 0.5%.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I'm assuming tomestones and the likes are delayed as well.

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Yeah, I wonder how that would work too.
Assuming it's like start of the expansion, extreme and crafted would be available from the start whilst savage and tomestone would come later.
But does that mean that the current tomestone would be unlocked for 1 week without having anything to replace it?
So many questions..

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

There's not much reason to delay anything else alongside savage.

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Perhaps, and that would be preferable for me, but they do delay crafted gear and the capped tomestone along with Savage on .05 patches.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Yeah, I wonder how that would work too.
Assuming it's like start of the expansion, extreme and crafted would be available from the start whilst savage and tomestone would come later.
But does that mean that the current tomestone would be unlocked for 1 week without having anything to replace it?
So many questions..

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Crafted is not available from the start, but alongside Savage and the capped tomestone, in patch x.05.

It would be really weird if they try to do that on x.2 and x.4 patches.

Honestly I wish all content was more spread out.

I dont feel main story quests should be released at the same time as an extreme trial or a savage raid or an ultimate fight.

If this was done, I would feel more people would be more active more often, which is good for the entire playerbase.

Also the game would be updated more often, and be down less often or at least feel less often.

This is just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Honestly I wish all content was more spread out.

I dont feel main story quests should be released at the same time as an extreme trial or a savage raid or an ultimate fight.

If this was done, I would feel more people would be more active more often, which is good for the entire playerbase.

Also the game would be updated more often, and be down less often or at least feel less often.

This is just my opinion.

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If contents are more spread out, rewards should be less timegated (daily and weekly cap rewards should be higher, etc.).

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. World prog teams are forced to hire crafters to get their gear ASAP and even normal people that want to jump into Savage day one are forced to farm scrips to get all their crafting books, gather mats for 8 people and craft everything in a single afternoon + clear the four normal floors.
And in cases like 5.4 where MNK is being reworked pretty heavily it would be nice to give them the time to theorycraft their new rotation properly

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Originally Posted by linayar

Skipping every bit of story aside is a personal choice, one that wouldn't be necessary if others are empathetic enough to understand why one might want to not skip the story, at least for the raid.

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We've been over this before. If two or three people in the group want to watch story and the remaining don't, you're at an impasse where some members of the group are going to be disappointed. The solution shouldn't be "well, you three who like story go find another static that doesn't want to raid when patch drops." And as Liam highlighted earlier. You only get that early prog feel the actual week of. Blind prog therefore is just artificially handicapping yourself. Not to mention, it becomes that much harder to both avoid spoilers and even find players who want to prog blind. Additionally, if those players progging week one have friends who don't raid--either at patch drop, or at all--who they enjoy doing the story with. Someone will inevitably be disappointed there.

Now if every piece of content functioned this way; where the devs said here's everything. Pick and choose what you want to do first. Your side would have a more compelling argument. That isn't the case. Literally everything else is delayed precisely to avoid conflicts and make players feel rushed. This includes Ishgard and even Ultimate.

Would be nice if you could at least farm extreme primal weapon before savage raid open.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

We've been over this before.

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Yes, and your argument still doesn't make sense because:

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You only get that early prog feel the actual week of.

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It shouldn't take more than hour to go through the normal raid with watching cutscenes and reading dialogs, especially if you do it with your static.

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Now if every piece of content functioned this way; where the devs said here's everything. Pick and choose what you want to do first. Your side would have a more compelling argument. That isn't the case. Literally everything else is delayed precisely to avoid conflicts and make players feel rushed. This includes Ishgard and even Ultimate.

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Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't mind less/no timegating of content considering we only have 16 weeks between major patches.

Be that as it may, I at least don't want more timegating of the reward that I go for every major patch. Again, as long as that doesn't happen, which is still a concern, I don't care if they delay content I don't do, though I understand others still might.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yes, and your argument still doesn't make sense because:

It shouldn't take more than hour to go through the normal raid with watching cutscenes and reading dialogs, especially if you do it with your static.

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Still, no time to gather and craft all the new gear, so it doesn't matter how long you take to do the story. And the "but you can choose not to craft the gear" argument is totally invalid here.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Be that as it may, I at least don't want more timegating of the reward that I go for every major patch. Again, as long as that doesn't happen, which is still a concern, I don't care if they delay content I don't do, though I understand others still might.

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We're talking about what would benefit more people, and delaying it 1 or 2 weeks would help more people than releasing everytning on the same time. While I understand some people wants everything released the same day, there's a huge majority that wants a little bit of delay. Actually, there's little to debate here.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yes, and your argument still doesn't make sense because:

It shouldn't take more than hour to go through the normal raid with watching cutscenes and reading dialogs, especially if you do it with your static.

Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't mind less/no timegating of content considering we only have 16 weeks between major patches.

Be that as it may, I at least don't want more timegating of the reward that I go for every major patch. Again, as long as that doesn't happen, which is still a concern, I don't care if they delay content I don't do, though I understand others still might.

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You're acting like Titanmen troll's fan with the whole "I'm entitled to this game, it's MY game, gimme what I want for MY game." kind of attitude goin on here.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Still, no time to gather and craft all the new gear, so it doesn't matter how long you take to do the story. And the "but you can choose not to craft the gear" argument is totally invalid here.

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That's still a moot point because there is still no indication that delaying Savage would also not cause a delay in crafted gear like in patch x.05.

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Actually, there's little to debate here.

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Well, it's all preferences at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

You're acting like Titanmen troll's fan with the whole "I'm entitled to this game, it's MY game, gimme what I want for MY game." kind of attitude goin on here.

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We're talking preferences at the end of the day. You're not entitled to a delay in Savage, so don't call me a troll just because I have my own desires that doesn't necessarily fit yours.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Well, it's all preferences at the end of the day.

We're talking preferences at the end of the day. You're not entitled to a delay in Savage, so don't call me a troll just because I have my own desires that doesn't necessarily fit yours.

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Ye ye ye sure sure, cool and all ya know, except you keep forgetting that you're a part of a group that is the minority here. See a distinct difference there? Perhaps? Maybe?

EDIT: Wanted to add that like, not being sour or anything, I just don't get why you're so butthurt over it. We get it, ya know? Like sure you told everyone your "preference" but...like leave it at that then? That's what I'm getting at here.

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

Ye ye ye sure sure, cool and all ya know, except you keep forgetting that you're a part of a group that is the minority here. See a distinct difference there? Perhaps? Maybe?

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That's irrelevant, because being in the minority doesn't suddenly mean my desires go away. SE may decide what to do on certain things based on what they think the majority want/need, but I'm not SE and this is a forum between players.

And are you saying then that every minority opinion is now a troll opinion?

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

EDIT: Wanted to add that like, not being sour or anything, I just don't get why you're so butthurt over it. We get it, ya know? Like sure you told everyone your "preference" but...like leave it at that then? That's what I'm getting at here.

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I'm not "butthurt," just like discussing on forums. And while I don't try to intentionally aggravate people, I'm also not going to be fake and not say what I think.

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Originally Posted by linayar

That's still a moot point because there is still no indication that delaying Savage would also not cause a delay in crafted gear like in patch x.05.

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It's still ok, people gets to do story at their own pace.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

It's still ok, people gets to do story at their own pace.

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They can do so now.

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Originally Posted by linayar

They can do so now.

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Unless players have any problem with all the content released on the same day, wich is what is happening and why the Dev Team is thinking about delaying it.

You can keep trying to avoid these problems, but the Dev Team and the affected people know this is a real problem and it needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Unless players have any problem with all the content released on the same day, wich is what is happening and why the Dev Team is thinking about delaying it.

You can keep trying to avoid these problems, but the Dev Team and the affected people know this is a real problem and it needs to be fixed.

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The fact that some people want it delayed is not in question. And just because the devs listen to certain feedback doesn't mean everyone agrees with that feedback, hence the existence of this thread.

At the very least, as I've said before, I'm personally always hoping they don't delay tomestone if they still plan to delay Savage, though I also doubt they won't delay it.