Really hope next savage tier is delayed.

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I'm sure there's people that didn't want the new Ishgard and Relic content delayed either but here we are.

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Yes, delaying content IS continually one of the worst decisions squeenix makes for gameplay pacing.

That they haven't yet learned to put the grindiest relic/diadem/eureka/ect steps in the .05 and .25 patches (instead stuffing them more than a full cycle later) is telling.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

You mean it basically helping DF players and giving everybody a fair chance at the world race? Yeah.
Better than your squares into circle replies.
"Don't rush!" Top tier counter reply.

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What DF players? Do you mean PF? Are they serious contenders at world first? Either way, the world first race is not an official part of the game. In terms of the contents of the game, everyone already has a fair chance at them. People may have different priorities, desires, and schedules, but unlike limited-time events, both the raids and the story quests will be there for them to do when they want/can.

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The dev team has changed a lot of things in the past that have been in place for years before they changed it.
Remember how gear in savage dropped a random piece? Well now its coffers so it comes out the job you opened it with.
Remember how we didn't have pages and can go months with no loot because you keep losing you roll? Well now we have the pages to fix that.
The devs can change their pattern or how stuff works, don't act like they haven't before.

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I repeat: It is never my argument that they cannot change. But until they do, I will assume they will follow established patterns. It's one thing if there is no established pattern, but that's not the case here.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Well, obviously. The point of OP's post is wanting SE to make the change, which they have the power to do since they're not above doing it for other content already.

Going 'oh well they won't do it because patch history' is a dumb argument because they've already shown a history of changing up things despite previous patch cycle history, from tomes, crafted gear strength, raid drops, and so on. Whether it happens or not, to outright rule out the possibility is foolish.

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No it's not. For as much change FFXIV has gone through, it is also well known that FFXIV likes to keep to a pattern.

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I'm sure there's people that didn't want the new Ishgard and Relic content delayed either but here we are.

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Again, irrelevant because those also fit their own patterns.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

If I wasn't already against your idea, this post would have put me against it on presentation alone. The moment you attack someone is the moment you lose an argument. Makes that whole "just admit you lost" bit kinda funny.

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If it was just attacks alone I would agree.
The "just admit you lost" is pretty funny though. Imagine saying the devs don't change patterns when they have more than once through out the games life span.
Actually...maybe they didn't! are we still getting three dungeons???

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Almost as funny is imagining someone wanting the raid tier delayed for everyone due to the inability to find 2 extra hours to watch cutscenes pre-raid, amiright?

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Its not just about skipping the CS if you actually read my post and others, Which you probably didn't which is clear since you seem hyper focused on thinking its about skipping the CS and people having bad schedules.
But hey, w/e makes you feel better to think you gained a foothold in this argument.
Its about getting prepared for savage as well, which benefits everybody.
Which I repeat, helps more people that are PF warriors due to more people having decent enough gear to at least get through the first floor and gives people that are broke, a fighting chance to compete in the WR if they choose to since they had a week to craft or gather gil to buy supplies and whatnot.

But ofc, its only about skipping the story to you, amiright?? Man...who would have thought!

So again...tell me why delaying savage is a bad thing? still waiting for a good reason.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

And if YOU bothered to read MY post, you'd realize that my biggest issue was the time off requests real world prog players need to make in advance, which would need to be changed with little notice, causing said world prog players to miss a tier's race, and for... What? So crafters get screwed out of profits because no raider in their right mind will be buying day 1 of a delayed patch? Because, outside of either making yourself crafted or watching the story, there is literally no other prep work for a savage tier.

There are literally no upsides to your idea outside of some ill conceived notion that some players need to "rush" to do the prep work pre-savage. In all the world prog groups I've been in, a "rush" has never been an issue. I

'd love to verify your status as someone who does Savage day 1 of release. Who do you run with? I know Crystal isn't know for its raid scene, so there can't be too many groups.

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Dude...obviously if they were gonna delay savage they'll tell us before hand.
you really think they'll just randomly drop a bomb right before 5.4 is about to release saying oh btw, savage is delayed :D
That is a weak ass argument.
And crafters are not gonna be screwed out of profit, ONCE AGAIN. The crafted items would be available or rather should be as the point of wanting to delay savage is to do other content and prepare.
Why wouldn't they buy day one 1 or 2? there wouldn't be a point in waiting and not like the price is gonna drop in the coming weeks.
I'm not sure why people are thinking they'll just not giving out the mats or worst, not uncap the 5.2 tomes when the ilv increased.
Just using whatever excuse you have, and not a good one.

And I pointed out the upsides and not gonna repeat it. If you don't think its a upside that's on you.
And crystal has a lot of raiders actually, how do you know crystal situation if you never bothered to look in the outside sources and its funny you talk about verifying status when you're scary ass is using an alt to post on the fourms to not reveal your main, scared form the heat you might get in-game? Don't talk about verifying.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Dude...obviously if they were gonna delay savage they'll tell us before hand.
you really think they'll just randomly drop a bomb right before 5.4 is about to release saying oh btw, savage is delayed :D
That is a weak ass argument.
And crafters are not gonna be screwed out of profit, ONCE AGAIN. The crafted items would be available or rather should be as the point of wanting to delay savage is to do other content and prepare.
I'm not sure why people are thinking they'll just not giving out the mats or worst, not uncap the 5.2 tomes when the ilv increased.
Just using whatever excuse you have, and not a good one.

And I pointed out the upsides and not gonna repeat it. If you don't think its a upside that's on you.
And crystal has a lot of raiders actually, how do you know crystal situation if you never bothered to look in the outside sources and its funny you talk about verifying status when you're scary ass is using an alt to post on the fourms to not reveal your main, scared form the heat you might get in-game? Don't talk about verifying.

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Ok hang on , subject aside , are you seriously insinuating that if he did use his main char he would be getting heat? by who? you, or your mates? is that threat?

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Another armchair raider wanting changes to the scene that don't actually impact them. How cute. How much the TEA clear cost ya?

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Probably as much as you spent on that level boosted alt you're posting on.(that's not the tea title btw).
and I can say the same for you, another armchair dip not having a good reason to why the delay is a bad thing.
And I'm not changing the scene, how is wanting a simple week delay a change in the scene? at leas the way I see it, changing the scene would probably be like the difficulty or something.

A lot of people want this, there as a thread same as mine with almost 100 likes that came out right after verse came out..or before, and that's a lot considering lots of raiders avoid the forums like a plague.
Still small sure compared to the massive amount of players but its a good general idea.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

When you can't win an argument, or don't want to address it because you know it means you'll lose, you attack your opponent's character instead of their argument. I'm willing to bet they would find me in game if given the option. I do have a house and I've received... some interesting entries into my log book before. Especially when I went after Real world t- ahem, housing enthusiasts.





Ah,my mistake. You went with the cheaper one. Economically minded, huh? Kudos!

Look dude. Literally no one significant, and I mean NO ONE, in the raiding scene wants savage delayed. Matter of fact, most of us want MORE savage content. They don't feel a rush. That's why I asked who you run with. To confirm if you'd even be impacted by this and to confirm who you run with.

I'd use your logs to confirm, but those are currently hidden. Wonder why. =)
Edit: I found them via their guild. I'm just that invested. You are not a day 1 level player, according to what I've found. You are NOT impacted by your own suggestion. If I knew I wouldn't get banned for posting the logs, I would. You are NOT part of the raiding scene that would be impacted. Not even close.

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Mr.happy wants it delayed I know that and he's very significant.
And I'll use your logs but you're using an alt to post. Wonder why =)
and you're right, I'll love more savage content, seem you got one thing right!
and why the heck would you knowing who I run with even be a factor? Didn't realize I had to be running with certain people to be qualified. Its quite funny how you talk about me wanting to find you if I could and you want to see my whole static. Like the pot calling the kettle black, numnuts.
Kudos!
Please post the link of the fc you found c:

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Originally Posted by Darsien

I think using Mr. Happy as an example just hurts your argument. But, like my edit said, you're not part of the group that's impacted by your own idea. And low blue level players generally aren't good enough to do ultimates. The puzzle has fallen together.

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Post the fc you found, go ahead. It's not against the rules to do that.
And you can hate on mr.happy because it's the cool thing to do but he's way better than you and actually is a somebody in the community unlike you.

A redesign of patch releases to allow for an extra week to sort your crafted gear and consumables would be nice. They could just release that a week ahead of the patch or something. There isn't really anything keeping them from doing it.
I always end up taking my day off to sort it all before raid night but honestly I could do without, and not everyone has the option of taking a day off either.
Dunno, doesn't seem like an outlandish change/request.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Ah, but you know I can't. Posting the forbidden site is a forum ban! I can give you details, of course. But posting the actual log will surely get me banned.

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Its from the lodestone from the actual FFXIV site.
You won't post the FC because you haven't found anything.
Sh*tlords will always be sh*tlords.
Thanks for being a meme though =)
Give me the details though.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Edit: Ya know what? I don't wanna get banned in game for calling out another player's performance and providing rather specific proof of that (their actual rankings in spite of having hidden logs).

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Main issue aside it's pretty shitty behavior to try and devalue someone's argument by calling out 'performance' via logs, logs aren't part of the game and should have 0 bearing on someone's argument for or against something, I'm saying that as someone that doesn't log and probably still has my information up there because of someone else. It's just a piss poor decision as a human being to say: "This person doesn't get to have input because they suck at their rotation!" It's legitimately toxic behavior and it's the epitome of Raid elitism to pull that kind of shit, it's not even Ultimate content or something where being able to clear it is some kind of actual badge (assuming it's not bought anyways), it's savage, have some common sense and a shred of decency.

Be a better person.

Imagine calling someone a s**tlord, retarded, stalking prick among others just because they disagree with delaying savage.

Sounds like all the rushing issues come from within, not without.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

I already am the better person. Defending someone who uses the big r word? Now THAT is toxic.

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But you're not, like sure you can say they're not part of Savage raiding but the second you pull logs into things it's just embarrassing, they're not part of the game and waving around you're e-dick for clout is just awful behavior regardless of circumstances. I'm not defending them either, I'm just saying your particular behavior and the glee you take in comparing logs to prove you're a better person is sad, be world first, do great things, lead the bleeding edge of the content race for all I care but using logs to devalue another player/person IS shitty behavior.

It's shitty behavior to use the BIG R, it's still shitty behavior to pull logs and use that shit against someone.

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

But you're not, like sure you can say they're not part of Savage raiding but the second you pull logs into things it's just embarrassing, they're not part of the game and waving around you're e-dick for clout is just awful behavior regardless of circumstances. I'm not defending them either, I'm just saying your particular behavior and the glee you take in comparing logs to prove you're a better person is sad, be world first, do great things, lead the bleeding edge of the content race for all I care but using logs to devalue another player/person IS shitty behavior.

It's shitty behavior to use the BIG R, it's still shitty behavior to pull logs and use that shit against someone.

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Both of em arent the greatest example of human behavior. But lets be honest it makes for a really good show.

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

But you're not, like sure you can say they're not part of Savage raiding but the second you pull logs into things it's just embarrassing, they're not part of the game and waving around you're e-dick for clout is just awful behavior regardless of circumstances. I'm not defending them either, I'm just saying your particular behavior and the glee you take in comparing logs to prove you're a better person is sad, be world first, do great things, lead the bleeding edge of the content race for all I care but using logs to devalue another player/person IS shitty behavior.

It's shitty behavior to use the BIG R, it's still shitty behavior to pull logs and use that shit against someone.

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Can you please stop the absolutely shitty behavior of spreading misinformation that logs are some ethereal thing outside of reality that someone came up with?

Yes, logs are housed on a third party website. But they're completely made using data taken straight from the game.

Seriously, that's stuff that bad players spout because they hate having people be aware of how bad they are.

I'm just gonna throw out that the argument between two players in this thread is why people think the raiding community is toxic.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Seriously, that's stuff that bad players spout because they hate having people be aware of how bad they are.

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I didn't mean to imply logs are made up bullshit, just that it's not a part of the game, the game itself doesn't log your performance and generate a percentile based on how you played that other players can then look at in game, it is very much so a third party program and a third party website. If that was something the developers wanted to include in their game and a feature they wanted players to have/use they wouldn't have gone out of their way to made it against the rules to bring that shit up, it also doesn't help that my only exposure to logs are people either touting their own logs or using the logs of someone else to try and shame/discredit them.

If you want to use logs to better yourself go ahead, if you want to use logs to weed out applicants to your hardcore raiding static then go ahead, but I swear to god the last thing the game needs is people pulling logs in Crystal Tower to play the blame game or to go on the forums and say "NAH LOOK AT UR LOGS".

Like really, it's not a hard concept.

There was topic about it not long ago

I also agree to let the raids to be bit delayed

more arguments here

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...threads/415217

i dont see any reason to rush it, i just slowly getting myself ready and then clear them one at time through pug pt since i dont have time for static one, really dont see any problem here

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Originally Posted by testname

There was topic about it not long ago

I also agree to let the raids to be bit delayed

more arguments here

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...threads/415217

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Your link didn't work properly, so I've reposted it here:

http://https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/415217-Can-we-please-delay-Savage

The last few pages are delving very deep into cringe territory. At least it's entertaining.

I was against it at first, but it's starting to look like a good idea after some thought.

This will completely destroy the crafting market because urgent demand is eliminated. Raiders will be able to craft their own gear.
In my opinion, crafted gear is unhealthy and awful for many reasons, but that's a different discussion.

The primary advantage I see is that it would be healthy for world first prog. If teams are able to prepare for a week, then they all start at the same point without the need (advantage) of outside help in terms of gear and consumables.

Not so sure about having one week to study normal raids - it will eliminate some of the surprises.
On one hand, it's an interesting exercise in speculation. On the other, previous experience with this game's raids allows you to predict how some of the mechanics will change.

What about delaying both Normal and Savage?

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

The primary advantage I see is that it would be healthy for world first prog. If teams are able to prepare for a week, then they all start at the same point without the need (advantage) of outside help in terms of gear and consumables.

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Since they're all already doing exactly that I don't really see one team having an advantage over the other, but the discussion was initially never about world first prog in the first place since those people generally have no issue with getting their gear+consumables immediately, they have everything planned way in advance.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

What about delaying both Normal and Savage?

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Since one of the complaints was about having to rush through the raid story this would completely defeat that point of delaying savage.


The absolutely hilarious rage on the last 3 pages aside I want to elaborate on the potential issues with delaying savage.




If they delayed savage by 1 week but both tomestone gear and crafted gear were available immediately:
This obviously affects crafters, because by the time savage unlocks you are able to get 900 tomestones, enough to buy chest/pants or any other upgrade piece for your job, making part of the crafted gear completely obsolete by the time you would actually need it.


The next issue is with crafted gear being available immediately while the actual need for it is delayed by a week. This is just my rough guess but it will lead to a significant price drop and severely hinder a crafter's ability to make money.

Now you may ask, why would it? Because crafting is more accessible than ever, there are more active crafters than ever and a lot of people in this game aren't exactly the most rational.



You probably have experienced it yourself, you put up an item on the marketboard and an hour later someone has undercut you by 50% and that guy has probably then also been undercut by 10-30%, a completely nonsensical move just so they can sell their item "slightly" faster for a fraction of it's potential worth, making the item's price take an absolute nosedive.
Now imagine this scenario but none of the items actually sell and the market is completely flooded with crafted gear, people just keep undercutting each other for the miniscule chance of actually selling a piece...and this goes on for an entire week. I think you get the idea.


Now what if we delayed savage and the tomestone gear?:

Pretty much the exact same scenario except that certain pieces haven't become completely obsolete yet by the time savage is unlocked.


And lastly if we delay savage, tomestone and crafted gear:
Just like delaying normal and savage by 1 week it would completely defeat one of the purposes of delaying savage in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

You probably have experienced it yourself, you put up an item on the marketboard and an hour later someone has undercut you by 50% and that guy has probably then also been undercut by 10-30%, a completely nonsensical move just so they can sell their item "slightly" faster for a fraction of it's potential worth, making the item's price take an absolute nosedive.
Now imagine this scenario but none of the items actually sell and the market is completely flooded with crafted gear, people just keep undercutting each other for the miniscule chance of actually selling a piece...and this goes on for an entire week. I think you get the idea.

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This is a bit of an exaggeration. You'll usually make far more money with crafted gear from the non-raid community than actual raiders. People like to buy upgrades even when they absolutely do not need them. You see it all the time where people are decked out in crafted gear yet they don't raid, thus said gear is grossly overpowered. Would it impact sales? Somewhat, yes. But not by any more significant amount than they already have been. You're very mistaken if you think the gear won't still sell.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

And lastly if we delay savage, tomestone and crafted gear:
Just like delaying normal and savage by 1 week it would completely defeat one of the purposes of delaying savage in the first place.

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Part of the complaints are Normal mode and having to skip story if you're aiming for a week 1 clear. Pushing tome, crafted and Savage all a week back eliminates that issue. So, no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

In fact, the numerous raiders asking for this change specifically want the same delay we get during the first tier, albeit a week shorter.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is a bit of an exaggeration. You'll usually make far more money with crafted gear from the non-raid community than actual raiders. People like to buy upgrades even when they absolutely do not need them. You see it all the time where people are decked out in crafted gear yet they don't raid, thus said gear is grossly overpowered. Would it impact sales? Somewhat, yes. But not by any more significant amount than they already have been. You're very mistaken if you think the gear won't still sell.



Part of the complaints are Normal mode and having to skip story if you're aiming for a week 1 clear. Pushing tome, crafted and Savage all a week back eliminates that issue. So, no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

In fact, the numerous raiders asking for this change specifically want the same delay we get during the first tier, albeit a week shorter.

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Does the 2 hours max it takes to do the normal modes and watch the story in them really make or break week 1 clears though?

Personally, I prefer jumping right into the savage raids after clearing normal, and would prefer them not be locked until another week has passed.


Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Since they're all already doing exactly that I don't really see one team having an advantage over the other, but the discussion was initially never about world first prog in the first place since those people generally have no issue with getting their gear+consumables immediately, they have everything planned way in advance.

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"They're all doing exactly that" is quite a bold claim, considering it's data we do not have.
Do you know for a fact that there is not one single team that considered world first prog, but decided against it because they don't have the outside resources to be competitive?
It would be healthy because it removes the outside help requirement and allows teams to be self-sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Since one of the complaints was about having to rush through the raid story this would completely defeat that point of delaying savage.

If they delayed savage by 1 week but both tomestone gear and crafted gear were available immediately:
Now what if we delayed savage and the tomestone gear?:
And lastly if we delay savage, tomestone and crafted gear:

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I don't know why you'd elaborate so much on crafted gear. I assume you're just replying generally and not to me specifically, because my post said that the crafting market will be completely destroyed.
We're in agreement here, only difference being that I don't consider the crafting market a significant problem.

It would not completely defeat the point of delaying savage because the most time-consuming part of preparation is the crafted gear.
If you don't have to worry about crafted gear, then you only have to go through Normal (and optionally cutscenes). This is a much more reasonable time window to have available before your scheduled raid.

Delaying both Normal and Savage is a compromise with the purpose of addressing the issue of studying Normal raids for a week. This seems like the best solution:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

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Can't see the fear over crafters losing money. Crafted gear is already almost worthless anyway and the bulk of buyers for crafted sets are non-raiders. Not saying I agree with delays because of that, but at the same time it's not exactly a factor towards why it shouldn't be delayed.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

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That's a decent suggestion.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Part of the complaints are Normal mode and having to skip story if you're aiming for a week 1 clear. Pushing tome, crafted and Savage all a week back eliminates that issue. So, no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

In fact, the numerous raiders asking for this change specifically want the same delay we get during the first tier, albeit a week shorter.

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Maybe you just quoted the wrong one but I said "If we delayed both normal and savage by a week it would defeat the purpose" because the problem of rushing through normal that some people seem to have would still be the same.
If we're talking about MSQ then I really don't see the reason why you can't just wait until you're done with raiding to do the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Does the 2 hours max it takes to do the normal modes and watch the story in them really make or break week 1 clears though?

Personally, I prefer jumping right into the savage raids after clearing normal, and would prefer them not be locked until another week has passed.

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It depends on the group and their allotted time. For many, it's a huge inconvenience that doesn't need to exist. Speaking from my own experience this past tier, we wanted to jump into Savage at 7pm EST and planned for a 30 hour week. Unfortunately, two people worked on Tuesday and wouldn't be come until nearly 6pm. So right there, we have to either delay our start time for two people or they skip everything. They had friends log in for them and blitz the story. Myself and our SCH handled crafting for the whole team, including consumables. I spent most of my time on patch day crafting. If I had watched the cut scenes, we'd have been late.

What irks me about the whole this is the dev team delays literally everything else to accommodate story. We just had the servers shut down for no other reason than because they chose to postpone Ishgard Restoration so it didn't interrupt story. Savage is the exception, and only for two tiers.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Alternatively, I would be fine with them not requiring normal to unlock savage.

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See, I wouldn't have an issue if they did this. In a previous post I had two suggestions.

1) Allow Savage to be unlocked immediately, with a warning message informing the player they may spoil such and such. Basically, the same way they handle purchasing tome gear when you're not specifically on said job.

2) Put the current raid (Gaia?) in New Game+ immediately instead of waiting until 6.0. That way, yes, we have still skip. But we can go back and complete the story at our leisure without needing an alt.

Personally, I prefer the first option because I really don't care to do normal when savage releases. But both fix the problem if they don't opt to delay anything.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Maybe you just quoted the wrong one but I said "If we delayed both normal and savage by a week it would defeat the purpose" because the problem of rushing through normal that some people seem to have would still be the same.
If we're talking about MSQ then I really don't see the reason why you can't just wait until you're done with raiding to do the MSQ.

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Your underlined sentence didn't include normal. I missed it in the sentence underneath.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

I don't know why you'd elaborate so much on crafted gear. I assume you're just replying generally and not to me specifically, because my post said that the crafting market will be completely destroyed.
We're in agreement here, only difference being that I don't consider the crafting market a significant problem.

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You're correct, I was just replying in general to the different approaches in delaying savage.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yeah, ok, you just don't read apparently.

Also this:



As for the rest:

Right, because PF doesn't have min ilv option...

As long as it can affect me, I'll give my opinion on it. It's not going to kill you to not rush through the content either if you don't have the time or the gear.

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Anybody that reads your previous post can clearly see one of your main reasons was the devs don't change. Not sure why out of no where it was never your argument yeah dude you're not fooling anybody. You're just backing down and trying to take a different approach now that people and myself debunked you about pattern change history.
Also I did see you say that before my reply, I just thought it was funny that you once again brought it up (the pattern) as for the main reason the delay won't happen. But it was never your argument right? even though you brought it up more than anybody? Hmm...

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Originally Posted by linayar

Right, because PF doesn't have min ilv option...

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Right~ and guess how long it'll take to fill? if it...fill at all... ooooh but that's~ right you wouldn't know would you? because you don't raid.
Hell...even setting the pf to 500 for the new primal it never fills or it takes ages.

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Originally Posted by linayar

As long as it can affect me, I'll give my opinion on it. It's not going to kill you to not rush through the content either if you don't have the time or the gear.

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You know what...now that I took some chill pills/slept and reflected on my previous post. Limme start by saying, yeah maybe you do have an opinion. Because when I think back when I wasn't a raider, I liked getting stronger for the sake of it and all I did was tome farm/expert and ex primal(and relic grind)
But overall I still don't think you really need the tomes right away, even if you predominantly do those types of content but I understand.
Also apologies for all the insults and toxicity.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Anybody that reads your previous post can clearly see one of your main reasons was the devs don't change. Not sure why out of no where it was never your argument yeah dude you're not fooling anybody. You're just backing down and trying to take a different approach now that people and myself debunked you about pattern change history.

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Wrong again:

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Originally Posted by linayar

I repeat: It is never my argument that they cannot change. But until they do, I will assume they will follow established patterns. It's one thing if there is no established pattern, but that's not the case here.

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In other words, they've changed in other areas, but until they change in this area, I'm not going to like it if they do the same as patch .05 of an expansion in regard to this.

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Right~ and guess how long it'll take to fill? if it...fill at all... ooooh but that's~ right you wouldn't know would you? because you don't raid.
Hell...even setting the pf to 500 for the new primal it never fills or it takes ages.

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If you don't want people to be undergeared and there are not enough people that are geared to your satisfaction in PF, then bypass the PF by having a static who have the same mindset or wait until there are enough people who are geared. And hey, if you choose to wait, now you have time to do story quests without rushing.

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You know what...now that I took some chill pills/slept and reflected on my previous post. Limme start by saying, yeah maybe you do have an opinion. Because when I think back when I wasn't a raider, I liked getting stronger for the sake of it and all I did was tome farm/expert and ex primal(and relic grind)
But overall I still don't think you really need the tomes right away, even if you predominantly do those types of content but I understand.
Also apologies for all the insults and toxicity.

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Look, I don't know what exactly "chill pills" are, but if this discussion is making you stressed, then let's just back away from it. In the end, it's SE who will decide whatever they want.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Look, I don't know what exactly "chill pills" are, but if this discussion is making you stressed, then let's just back away from it. In the end, it's SE who will decide whatever they want.

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Lmao its just a slang word for relax.
Also wouldn't say it making me stressed (I probably wouldn't even have made the thread if I did get so easily stressed since I know these topics turn into a endless debate) but that's besides the point. In the end, yeah. It is SE who will decide.
From the person that linked the thread that was similar to mine, you can see a sizeable amount wants this. Its impossible to know the true amount but I do vaguely remember yoshi-p saying they thought about delaying savage before but they decided against it. Though don't quote me on this because It might just be a retrospective falsification and I don't remember which live letter it was but pretty sure he said something like this in a live letter.

I don't raid savage, here's my 2 gil anyway.

For this expansion I feel like it's already too late to see any significant changes.
For the next expansion? They could totally uncouple access to savage from completion of the normal raid if they wanted to.
We already have cutscene interactions that change slightly based on your prior actions. Just throw in a warning that jumping straight into savage will spoil who the bosses in normal are, have the gatekeeper NPC say something along the lines of "this simulation/memory crystal/other macguffin is based on the experience of this other group of people who did/attempted the normal raid before you got around to it" if you did not do normal first and we're mostly good.
There is of course the disconnect of going back to do normal afterwards and then somehow being the first/only people who did the raid but I'm going to assume that's a price most people who want to get into day 1 progression asap are willing to pay for the sake of being able to do the normal mode story at their leisure.

I don't world race, but I love raiding and story in this game, and in my opinion, a delayed release of Savage for every tier would be a good idea overall. I do follow some world racers who basically have to go completely social media dark and have extremely attentive mods on their streams to avoid getting accidentally spoiled on the patch story after having it done to them before. It doesn't even have to delay the release of the new Tomestones necessarily, since all it will give is a -10 accessory, since the world racers currently go in with prior tier BiS and a team of crafters making the new created gear and pentamelding it so they hit the equipment check for the final floor. It wouldn't even increase their average item level.

And a final benefit, it would truly illustrate the "it's never too late to raid" mentality the dev team seems to be working under. That week would give someone who doesn't have prior-tier BiS the opportunity to do day one on a new job with the crafted gear. I've raided with people who would make great world racers, but just got to this tier too late and won't be able to so the necessary steps for WR on 5.4 as a result. I known a few people who won't world race due to having the story ruined for them and if that were not a problem they'd have, they'd do it in a heartbeat. In my opinion, removing artificial barriers - like fear of spoilers - to world racing is a good thing.

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It doesn't even have to delay the release of the new Tomestones necessarily ... That week would give someone who doesn't have prior-tier BiS the opportunity to do day one on a new job with the crafted gear.

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The new tomestone is tied to the launch of savage.

The new craft materials are tied to the old tomestone (the one they cost) being uncapped.

You will not have crafted gear before savage launches.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Just like on the start of the expansion. I hope savage is delayed 1-2 weeks so raiders like myself don't have to rush, rush.
To unlock savage as fast as possible and ignore everything and skip cut scenes from the normal mode.

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This just means crafters have even less of an advantage because people doing savage can get 3 weeks worth of normal raid loot before having to do savage.

Personally I wouldn't be against releasing the savage tier a week or two later, Maybe alongside the ishgard restoration. I don't do savage myself so i'm not really concerned anyway but there are likely some savage raiders who are also interested in the other content but can't do it because they're too busy racing to world first, plus they can't appreciate the story when running through normal mode as they're just rushing it to get to savage.

(yes I know this thread was necroed, but I don't mind too much in this case, it's not like the thread is that old and it's still relevant)

week delay wouldn't be a big deal it just means people can be more prepared,take there time with Normal mode/Story,MB pricing for crafted gear doesnt plummet as fast and do what ever is new said patch.
still a week 1 kill be same as always even with tome chest/leggings.

O my god burn this thread please . You all really think that people who are rushing to savage care about the story ... . If they are too busy going for "world first" they still can do the rest of the content later too ...