Getting a New House Feels Impossible

I didn't see any mention overthrowing the current residents. Down with the bourgeoisie! Unite our banners together and cast them out!

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Originally Posted by KathleenNoir

I didn't see any mention overthrowing the current residents. Down with the bourgeoisie! Unite our banners together and cast them out!

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With the exception of a few mega abusive house hoarders (who shall go unnamed ;) they really don't need to take away houses, just modify the existing rules to better deal with the real problem--fake FCs and harsh restrictions on apartments and even houses in general. Imagine a game where an FC could have an option to allow non-FC members to use their equipment such as crafting stations, stables, vendors, and even be able to buy rooms. How would that affect the game's ability to socialize. Houses could be more than just eye candy for random players.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

With the exception of a few mega abusive house hoarders (who shall go unnamed ;) they really don't need to take away houses, just modify the existing rules to better deal with the real problem--fake FCs and harsh restrictions on apartments and even houses in general. Imagine a game where an FC could have an option to allow non-FC members to use their equipment such as crafting stations, stables, vendors, and even be able to buy rooms. How would that affect the game's ability to socialize. Houses could be more than just eye candy for random players.

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Could not agree more.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Not going to work for players on NA servers. Here's a quick census I just did for Crystal. Keep in mind that Crystal has most of the lowest pop NA servers with the exception of Siren,

Balmung - no houses available

Brynhildr - no houses available

Coeurl - no houses available

Diabolos - One newly relinquished small plot in Goblet

Goblin - no houses available

Malboro - no houses available

Mateus - One newly relinquished small plot in Goblet

Zalera - no houses available

Keep in mind it's 5am Eastern and 2am Pacific in NA right now. One person was camping the Diabolos house and a second person showed up as I finished typing this post (good luck!). The Mateus house has 11 players camping it, nine of them with status set to Busy so other players can't screw with their placard spam (maybe the other two are just trying to screw with them?).

You'll see this repeated across all NA data centers. This isn't EU or JP where average population per server is smaller and houses are available on at least one if not more worlds in a data center. Here houses have been at a premium since June of last year. The addition of new wards in 5.1 helped a little but those were essentially filled even before the personal purchase moratorium was removed in 5.2 and completely filled the day it was removed.

People can't just switch to a different world in the same NA data center here to get a house.

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just chiming in, NA player on primal. on Ultros alone we've had completely full wards for a good long while. the new wards they added with 5.1 were completely bought out by FCs and player relocations within a few hours of the servers going live, and the vacant plots they left behind refilled in a couple days. when a new ward is opened up with an update you pretty much need to be one of the lucky few to get into the game, onto the server, and either buy an fc plot or relocate within the first 5-20 minutes of the servers going live or your not getting a house.

I think there are 3 solutions to housing in terms of available plots.

1. In game process that adds more wards automatically depending on active players.

2. Add more worlds, atm according to Lucky Banco Census 2 new worlds to every current datacenter I.E. Aether gets 2 new worlds/servers, Crystal gets 2 new worlds/servers, Primal gets 2 new worlds/servers.

3. Instanced housing - although this goes against what Yoshi P has said in the past about housing feeling like a neighborhood of people.

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

2. Add more worlds, atm according to Lucky Banco Census 2 new worlds to every current datacenter I.E. Aether gets 2 new worlds/servers, Crystal gets 2 new worlds/servers, Primal gets 2 new worlds/servers.

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They've said in the past that the first is not possible with the way housing is programmed.

They're unlikely to add new worlds to NA data centers when so many NA players complain that their worlds feel dead because they think the active population is too low. This is despite only a few worlds outside of NA having more active players than our lowest pop world.

As for what was said in the past, things change once developers see how players approach the content once they have access. Pick a ward at random and unless you've picked one with a few large FCs with active members constantly coming and going, you're not going to feel like you're in a neighborhood of people. You're going to feel like you're in a recently abandoned neighborhood. Wards may have been a nice idea but they're not working well in practice.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They've said in the past that the first is not possible with the way housing is programmed.

They're unlikely to add new worlds to NA data centers when so many NA players complain that their worlds feel dead because they think the active population is too low. This is despite only a few worlds outside of NA having more active players than our lowest pop world.

As for what was said in the past, things change once developers see how players approach the content once they have access. Pick a ward at random and unless you've picked one with a few large FCs with active members constantly coming and going, you're not going to feel like you're in a neighborhood of people. You're going to feel like you're in a recently abandoned neighborhood. Wards may have been a nice idea but they're not working well in practice.

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That's why they need to modify the FC homeowner standaaaaaaards! And more wards would be helpful to servers that are as stuffed as the NA ones seem to perpetually be, even if it's just a bit.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

That's why they need to modify the FC homeowner standaaaaaaards! And more wards would be helpful to servers that are as stuffed as the NA ones seem to perpetually be, even if it's just a bit.

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I forgot when it was mentioned but I believe they have stated they either cannot or do not like to add wards to only certain servers. So would have be via new servers, and adding mew servers to NA may thin out the player perception on health of a data center.

They did have the 1 fc house and 1 personal house in effect for a little but the removed the FC restriction. So clearly they had a reason to do so. Also no amount of standards for FC's that people would find reasonable would not be difficult to achieve for single FC owners. As a single FC owner with many plots it would take a lot for me to not consider going through the trouble since the pay off is worth it imo.

Oh boy, seeing this whole thread made me hopeless of having a home for my FC anytime soon, was thinking that this kind of problem only existed on the most pop servers like Gilga, but i was wrong..

Have tried 5 times on past three weeks, the third one was really exhausting, i took it from 4pm to 3am and i had to stop it because I couldn't take it anymore...Slept for three hours and when I came back, it was bought, my only hope that remains is the Ishigard's residential areas but as far as i know, it is not known when they will be available

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Originally Posted by Cthulhu_Jazz

Oh boy, seeing this whole thread made me hopeless of having a home for my FC anytime soon, was thinking that this kind of problem only existed on the most pop servers like Gilga, but i was wrong..

Have tried 5 times on past three weeks, the third one was really exhausting, i took it from 4pm to 3am and i had to stop it because I couldn't take it anymore...Slept for three hours and when I came back, it was bought, my only hope that remains is the Ishigard's residential areas but as far as i know, it is not known when they will be available

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Never give up, keep it up and when you least expect it you will get a plot. The hardest part is getting your first plot, after that it becomes much easier.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Never give up, keep it up and when you least expect it you will get a plot. The hardest part is getting your first plot, after that it becomes much easier.

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First plot...when the game tries vaguely to allow only one...Which may be a factor in why it's so seemingly impossible.

I'm on my 15th try I think...losing count. Yesterday about 15 of us were on a placard for most of the day...it sucketh mightily

When I hear these stories, I feel so lucky. I bought "just like that" a small house near entrance of Goblet someway around december/january. And I was not so much satisfied, because I wanted a hause in Lavender Beds XD

I don't understand why currently system uses random time do buy a house. Wouldn't be better if in this time before "deadline" players can signup for buying free place (and paying full price for it). When time ends, system randomly chooses player that win, and rest of competitors get money back. If there was no player in lottery, place can be bought just like that.

It doesn't solve problem of availability of housing content for players, but it removes "not so wise" necessity of costant clicking.

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Originally Posted by Gaido

When I hear these stories, I feel so lucky. I bought "just like that" a small house near entrance of Goblet someway around december/january. And I was not so much satisfied, because I wanted a hause in Lavender Beds XD

I don't understand why currently system uses random time do buy a house. Wouldn't be better if in this time before "deadline" players can signup for buying free place (and paying full price for it). When time ends, system randomly chooses player that win, and rest of competitors get money back. If there was no player in lottery, place can be bought just like that.

It doesn't solve problem of availability of housing content for players, but it removes "not so wise" necessity of costant clicking.

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It's because having a system of RNG in place is going to tick people off as well. Also the Timer is in place to keep people from selling a plot directly to another player.

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

It's because having a system of RNG in place is going to tick people off as well. Also the Timer is in place to keep people from selling a plot directly to another player.

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Being unlucky with RNG might tick people off, but at least they'd be able to sleep/work/do absolutely anything that didn't involve a repetitive button rotation for 8-12 hours, and still have peace of mind. And they could add percentages, too. Like say after putting in your name three times, you have a higher chance of winning the house, stacking. For example the first house would be a roll of 1-100 between petitioners, and the second 5-100. The more often you try the more likely you'd be. A reward for effort (often many hours of effort) that does not exist now.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Being unlucky with RNG might tick people off, but at least they'd be able to sleep/work/do absolutely anything that didn't involve a repetitive button rotation for 8-12 hours, and still have peace of mind. And they could add percentages, too. Like say after putting in your name three times, you have a higher chance of winning the house, stacking. For example the first house would be a roll of 1-100 between petitioners, and the second 5-100. The more often you try the more likely you'd be. A reward for effort (often many hours of effort) that does not exist now.

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Problem with RNG it removes any aspect of input from the player. At the very least people can try everything in their power to get a plot. Even with an RNG system that increases your chances unless they have a flat 100% chance rate after a certain number of tries then someone will always roll zero, and people will complain. Look at our crafting when people use to complain about lulz 90% success rate. Trading one crappy system for another is not progress. Players are rewarded for trying currently, the reward is the plot. Issue is only one person can win, even with an RNG system only one person will win, and even with a progressive system that increases odds after every loss you will still run into issues where even that will become a RNG toss up between people at the same thresh hold. That RNG system strips all outside input from the player if they are willing to go the extra mile to get a plot. I do not get the need to change from one unfair system to another unfair system.

Our housing system is not perfect by any stretch but at the very least players have some sense of control over getting a plot. Personally not a fan of RNG since if their is a chance to roll zero, and with RNG there is always the chance to roll zero someone will roll that zero.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Problem with RNG it removes any aspect of input from the player. At the very least people can try everything in their power to get a plot.

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Don't make it sound like there is more than one way to go about this. Just the one...Mindless clicking for as long as your stamina can hold out. Don't you see, if it's an RNG system that gets put in place, then a lot MORE people will get a chance to get a house, not just that small group of dehydrated people still on and trying at 3am that're going to get only two hours of sleep before their twelve hour shift...

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Don't make it sound like there is more than one way to go about this. Just the one...Mindless clicking for as long as your stamina can hold out. Don't you see, if it's an RNG system that gets put in place, then a lot MORE people will get a chance to get a house, not just that small group of dehydrated people still on and trying at 3am that're going to get only two hours of sleep before their twelve hour shift...

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If someone is willing to do that so be it, that is a personal choice they have made. It is not our place to police their actions.

Also let us say they add a threshold system with the lottery with more people in the queue you are going to make it even harder for people to get a plot. So that person who was willing to not get sleep for a plot could in theory get the rng screwed over and over again. So what are we looking to solve exactly?

I do not think SE has ever intended for housing to be for accessible for everyone. Sure a lottery system will get more people into trying to get a house which means more people will not get a plot, which would lead to more complaining, and which may lead SE to take notice of the true problem the lack of the supply. That may be the case, but adding more people into the pool with our already limited supply is going to cause far more outrage. Which honestly seems silly to me.

In the end to make people happy SE needs to increase supply. Though after all these years not holding my breath to that happening.

That fact that people even have to suffer this "choice" is the problem to begin with. You seem to base the fact that only the most dogged, rabid, and straight luckiest of players can get a house as your "not meant for everyone" theory, but that is both a phantom entitlement and a cruel, inhumane way to go about it. Think about the invisible timer as single thing. What is it for?

1. To prevent RMT, everyone knows that (even though offline sites do this anyways, and abundantly, thus still adversely affect the game and its players.)
2. To make the contest for housing a "fairer" system. Anyone might win! (But usually it goes to the above said most rabid and determined who have usually been trying for days of painstaking and traumatizing effort, making most casual players not likely to even try, because, you know, life.)

Unless I missed a major one, these are the sole reasons for the invisible timer, the dread of all house hunters. There is otherwise no restriction on who gets a house, which seems to eliminate the "only the few" theory, especially when the game regularly adds more and more and more and MORE housing items, many of which that can only be used outside (let's not even talk about apartments and their limitations, shall we?)

So, the argument that only a few are meant for it translates to only the few most willing to dedicate their mind body and soul to FF14, at the cost of comfort and safety. Am I the only one who has a problem with that? Apparently not judging by the forums.

FF14 is an ever growing game, and it has been evolving with time. The idea that only a few were meant to have houses relates, I think, more directly to the original costs. In the beginning when the game was introduced, the houses cost MORE THAN MOST COULD EASILY AFFORD-the real reason for the only a few theory that everyone still touts to this day. Only a few wealthy, hard workers or hard working FCs could land a house. And the player base was small enough that there was almost always houses available, but only a few could afford it. Thus the purpose of FC houses even existing.

Times have changed. Most can afford a small at least just from leveling from one to max. The only reason for "a few" now is because there's only a few houses.

Please stop gabbling the garbage excuse that it's only meant 'for a few.' It's an absurd statement. The limitations are technical, not economical or overarching.

Let us be fair, if SE really wanted to make a housing system for everyone they would put time and money to make it work. At the end if the day the finite supply is what supports the view that at the games current state only the few are intended to have a plot. We can try to say SE has other limiting factors that make us feel good about the current situation or remove fault from SE. In the end their actions alone are what support the only the few statement. If it is because of inability or inaction due to technical or financial the fact remains housing is still limited so as such it clear to think it was not meant for everyone.

Why put other factors in place to limit housing when the greatest limiting factor is already in place lack of supply? I never said why they are limting it, idk nor do I really care. But the fact remains we have a limited supply so clearly SE is fine with only a limited amount of people having a house.

In my eyes you are the one tossing around excuses since you refuse to accept that maybe just maybe SE is fine with the way things are and are okay with housing being something only a small percentage of the player base.

You call it phantom entitlement I call it facing reality. Are plots limited? Yes. Has SE done anything as of late to fix that? No. So clearly housing is meant to be limited. I do speculate oon their intent and vision I just go based off their actions. Seems pretty straight forward.

Also if someone is willing to make that choice so be it, maybe I am a dark person but I support the choices of people. So if someone wants to risk their health for a plot go for it. That is on them and not SE and it is not something players need to create a crusade for.

Except YoshiP's letter, found in the housing forum seems to disagree. He says they want to add a lot more houses. He says he's sorry not everyone can get a house. He says it's a technical matter. So... The real problem is that they could take steps to make things better NOW but wont, despite overwhelming amounts of forums asking for just that. The man himself says things are not fine the way they are. Tossing around excuses? Refusing to accept? Not me, but maybe...someone else?

That is what I am saying since they refuse to do anything about and I do not care what they say since one can say anything. I go based off the actions one takes, has SE done anything to elevate the supply issue? On the contrary they silently removed the the one FC house per server which allowed new one person FC's to get upwards on 8 plots per server / service account.

Their actions tell a different tale, I am sure Yoshi-P is not happy, but does feeling and words alone change the situation?

I base my judgment around the actions one take not the words, since talk is cheap. If SE and Yoshi-P really not happy then make changes to the supply aspect show the people through action that you are not happy. Do not try to placate people with comforting words.

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Originally Posted by Awha

That is what I am saying since they refuse to do anything about and I do not care what they say since one can say anything. I go based off the actions one takes, has SE done anything to elevate the supply issue? On the contrary they silently removed the the one FC house per server which allowed new one person FC's to get upwards on 8 plots per server / service account.

Their actions tell a different tale, I am sure Yoshi-P is not happy, but does feeling and words alone change the situation?

I base my judgment around the actions one take not the words, since talk is cheap. If SE and Yoshi-P really not happy then make changes to the supply aspect show the people through action that you are not happy. Do not try to placate people with comforting words.

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You sound like you don't know they just added 3 more wards in 5.1. Was that not action?

You sound like you don't know Ishgard housing is coming. That's not mere talk. We can see the evidence of it on our servers right now. Is that not action?

This dev team has done more than talk. They have taken action, even if that action is not happening as rapidly as some players want but then players always have unreasonable expectations when it comes to game development. All they can think of is the immediate gratification and not all the work that goes into making those things happen.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You sound like you don't know they just added 3 more wards in 5.1. Was that not action?

You sound like you don't know Ishgard housing is coming. That's not mere talk. We can see the evidence of it on our servers right now. Is that not action?

This dev team has done more than talk. They have taken action, even if that action is not happening as rapidly as some players want but then players always have unreasonable expectations when it comes to game development. All they can think of is the immediate gratification and not all the work that goes into making those things happen.

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This is what I do not get, people are quick to defend SE when they have all power in this yet they complain about us that have more then one plot per server like we are the enemy. I am not saying you are saying this or have this view. Placing a bandaid on a gaping wound and then telling the person this is all they can do sorry we have limitations is not going to fix anything. Sure we can attack people with multiple plots but that is just adding more bandaids.

If people are annoyed with the current system do not defend SE and their excuses. They are not small indi team, they are not funded by a Kickstarter. Hold the company accountable do not solely try to vilify those who work within the system to get what they want.

Sure they are adding more housing after how many years this being an issue? Ishgard is just going to be a repeat of SB. Another bandaid. Do not be happy with the scraps they give ya, expect more from them not less. Do not ask for them to maintain status quo because well Yoshi-P said it would be too hard.

I like the current system I rather it not change to be honest, but still if you guys want change will have to hold SE more accountable.

In the end you are right they have taken action i just forgot about it since it largely amounted to nothing. Barely moved the needle.

Having the timer is fair because it give anyone a chance at the limited housing. It sound punishing, but that’s because the people who really want it now have a chance to fight for it. In the past housing would be all taken up and there wouldn’t even be a thing called chance. I understand the frustration, but if the timer never existed this post would be worded differently to say there are no houses left and we need more houses.

If it wasn’t for the timer I would’ve never been able to pick up a house. I stumbled on my house by chance. No one picked it up and the timer was gone. Otherwise I wouldn’t have a chance at it like all the times before.

If the timer existed and I still didn’t have a house. I would still agree with the timer because it gives others a chance.

I would want a house for everyone, but because we can’t have that it has to be limited like this to prevent the resellers for taking it all up. I wish The Devs would implement a one house per account rule. Doesn’t matter if you have a FC or privet house. You can only have one. Also if you join a FC you cannot have a house of your own unless you’re the FC leader who owns a privet house or the FC house.

I honestly don't mind the invisible timer as much as I do the stupid length of the timer. A player should not have to suffer through camping a placard and earnestly clicking it for sixteen hours before falling asleep, only to wake up three hours later in a panic and see it went to someone that they hadn't even seen arrive. A full day wasted for nothing. Nor do I think the relocation ability of those who already have a house fair. There should be a time limit of, say, four hours on the plot before it is no longer possible to relocate.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

I honestly don't mind the invisible timer as much as I do the stupid length of the timer. A player should not have to suffer through camping a placard and earnestly clicking it for sixteen hours before falling asleep, only to wake up three hours later in a panic and see it went to someone that they hadn't even seen arrive. A full day wasted for nothing. Nor do I think the relocation ability of those who already have a house fair. There should be a time limit of, say, four hours on the plot before it is no longer possible to relocate.

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This might have been mentioned before, but why not lower the timer by a huge margin and subject relocation to the same restrictions as purchasing? Basically, you cannot relocate to it until the house is actually able to be purchased. Then they would have to sit there and spam with potential buyers.

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Originally Posted by Lissandra

This might have been mentioned before, but why not lower the timer by a huge margin and subject relocation to the same restrictions as purchasing? Basically, you cannot relocate to it until the house is actually able to be purchased. Then they would have to sit there and spam with potential buyers.

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I do think having relocation not subject to the same timer as buying as a little silly tbh. Granted, I have messed with people using relocation, even so I do think it only makes sense to have both share the same timer.

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Originally Posted by Awha

If people are annoyed with the current system do not defend SE and their excuses. They are not small indi team, they are not funded by a Kickstarter. Hold the company accountable do not solely try to vilify those who work within the system to get what they want.

Sure they are adding more housing after how many years this being an issue? Ishgard is just going to be a repeat of SB. Another bandaid. Do not be happy with the scraps they give ya, expect more from them not less. Do not ask for them to maintain status quo because well Yoshi-P said it would be too hard.

I like the current system I rather it not change to be honest, but still if you guys want change will have to hold SE more accountable.

In the end you are right they have taken action i just forgot about it since it largely amounted to nothing. Barely moved the needle.

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People throw around the "small indie company" meme way too much. Any business, no matter how big, is still limited by budget, staff, facilities, technology infrastructure, etc. They can't do everything, nor can they do it instantly. Development takes time.

If someone feels SE is doing such a terrible job, they should stop buying SE's products. That is the effective way for consumers to hold a business accountable - stop doing business with them altogether. Don't merely threaten to stop giving them money if they don't change because they'll know that for the hollow threat it is. Actually do it.

Better yet, those players should go out and start up their own "small indie company" using the same resources and infrastructure to prove it can be done better. If they're incapable of doing that, then they're incapable of giving an honest assessment of whether SE is failing to do everything that is reasonably possible to change things.

As for barely moving the needle, the 4.2 ward additions were a fairly large jump in the needle even for NA. People probably don't remember it but most NA worlds had available houses for close to a year after those wards were added. Feel free to go back and cruise the 2018 posts in the Housing Census thread. The vast majority of complaints about availability were coming from three overpopulated worlds.

But the player base has jumped dramatically in size since then, largely in part to some spectacular failures in other games at the end of 2018 and start of 2019. I doubt very much that SE was expecting such a huge increase and certainly they weren't prepared for it.

SE has acknowledged that the current housing system isn't meeting the demands of the current player base and they want to do something about it. But creating new systems isn't something that is done in weeks. It takes months and sometimes years, especially when they still need to develop new content for other systems within the game. Until they are able to get a new system planned, developed and tested, the best they can do is give us those bandaids.

We know Ishgard housing is coming. That is what SE is currently working on. People need to be patient so we can see what impact its release will actually have on the housing situation.

Until then, apartments are still an option to give players access to housing while they wait for houses to become available. I just checked both Gilgamesh and Leviathan since those are the two highest pop worlds according to the most recent unofficial census. I had no trouble finding available apartments on either world.

Housing is out there, even if it's not the exact housing some players want. Well, you can't always get what you want in life, not even in a fantasy role playing game. Learn to deal.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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I agree they have to work within a budget, but that does not give players an excuse to come after other players who have more the one plot like we are the problem. The problem is solely on SE but people are quick to defend them because budget, limitations, etc . . . Sure SE says they care fine, sure they are working on Ishgard. End of the day people are quick to defend those who have too many plots by their standards and refuse to hold SE accountable for their own choices that have led to this situation and potentially appear they are going to repeat with Ishgard.

SE cares in the sense that it is an issue with the players, but for whatever either because they cannot, unable to figure it out or simply refuse to. This current system is solely on them and the players that have many plots are not to blame all the blame is on SE.

Yet you see people quick to complain about those who have many plots and come up with 100 and 1 reasons why SE is doing all they can. That is my issue, I understand they have limitations and choices to make managing projects is not fun from a budget perspective. It is always a give or take. Still if players are truly that upset about the current situation all the blame should be on SE, not the players that are working within the scope of the rules.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I agree they have to work within a budget, but that does not give players an excuse to come after other players who have more the one plot like we are the problem. The problem is solely on SE but people are quick to defend them because budget, limitations, etc . . . Sure SE says they care fine, sure they are working on Ishgard. End of the day people are quick to defend those who have too many plots by their standards and refuse to hold SE accountable for their own choices that have led to this situation and potentially appear they are going to repeat with Ishgard. .

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SE shares the blame but it doesn't solely fall on them. The players who have purchased multiple houses on the same world since the 4.2 rules went in to effect absolutely share in the blame just as much as SE. They know what they are doing is wrong and yet do it anyway because they have no respect for the game, its rules or the rest of the player base. They only care about getting what they want.

SE needs to understand how not enforcing the house ownership rules damages the integrity of the game and the concept of fair play they promote. Not only are they allowing players to violate the posted rules, they're letting those players flaunt the violation in front of other players whose own game experience is being negatively impacted by it. It encourages more and more players to cheat as they see others openly getting away with it.

That's a bad precedent for any game developer to set.

Still the core issue to be addressed is the number of houses available to the player base. As good as it would be to see SE take action against the accounts of those who have purchased multiple houses since 4.2, it would be better to see a system added that ensured every player who wants a house can get one. Multiple house ownership would stop being a problem because no player would be blocked from ownership by the greed of another player.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

SE shares the blame but it doesn't solely fall on them. The players who have purchased multiple houses on the same world since the 4.2 rules went in to effect absolutely share in the blame just as much as SE. They know what they are doing is wrong and yet do it anyway because they have no respect for the game, its rules or the rest of the player base. They only care about getting what they want.

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Its like you said, but even this is SE fault because as the Owner & Developer of this game SE has the possibility to take actions against such players and make things right. They could punish them, bann them or whatever, but they do not act at all. On my Server there is a FC that abuse this system since years and was already reported mutliple times, but SE gives a shit about it and they are still around.

There are some bad players out there no question, but that things don't get better and stay like they are is soley and alone the fault of the devolper and no one else.

Another quick example, this week i have created a new char on another DC. During the first hour i saw alone in the first zone around 20 leveling bots. Fighting enemys while invisible, porting from questlocation to questlocation, having the usual head > keyboard names and nearly everyone looked the same. I was so disgusted that i talked to someone there about what i saw and he mentioned the best thing is to ignore it since they are allways around and SE dont seem to be able or willing to handle it.

If there is a way to abuse something, people will find a way to do it. That's been true since forever, both inside video games and out. It's tempting to just give up on asking them mot to, and trying to force someone to not act this way is something only scholars and teachers can do... It's because rules are merely guidelines for morality and can never encompass all they mean to without stealing freedom. And also, those who do the abusing often fail to see the harm they do, especially in video games. It's easy to say that since the system is flawed and has been for a long time, it's basically an invitation to continue the abuse. It's easy to say that even if they relinquish one of their homes, who's to say it won't just go to another house hoarder, accomplishing nothing both loss on their part. And the worst part is they may even be right, because of the very system that invites abuse. No one can fault house hoarders for their actions, but nor can they ever be expected to be accepted. Long story short, it's the gamer's fault, but that's to be expected. Mostly it's SE's fault for not being more clear in what their rules really mean as guidelines. Change must come from within. Within themselves and within the game. Let's not forget that SE is composed of individuals, too. We just have to be patient and keep asking. Change FC standards and find a way to ease the strain of house camping, for the good of all. Rather sooner than later, or I fear for their game's popularity. Perhaps the new housing zone will be the cure. It's still very unclear.

Thing is I do not think any of this is an issue with the players. Getting more then one house per character or server does not require an exploit. So what metric can we use to say their actions are wrong? If they are not breaking any rules can we say it is wrong?

That is my beef, people are placing blame on those who are operating within the rules of the game placed by SE. Sure it may go against the intent of SE's vision, but it is like people getting upset rising pitch forks against others for choosing to not follow what amounts nothing more then a suggestion or a guideline.

In the end SE needs to figure out if they wish to keep the system ward based then they need change the rules for good and do not silently revert them thinking no one will notice. And tell people housing as it currently stands is finite people will have a hard time getting a plot. It may not be our end goal, but as it stands this is the current system we are working to improve it, but outside factors make it harder. Let people know housing is not going to be for everyone from the start.

Either way I am a fairly binary person so. I know people have hope for the new housing zone, but SE track record with housing leaves much to desired. Though I have my bias since I do own multiple plots. Hard to example it does not bother me per se if people think what I am doing wrong, I just wish people would aim their ire at those with the power instead of those working within the system.

That one kid who sees a bowl of candy with a sign above it reading, "please take just one," and grabs a whole handful. Clearly it's just the sign-maker's fault for not being more specific and restrictive.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

That one kid who sees a bowl of candy with a sign above it reading, "please take just one," and grabs a whole handful. Clearly it's just the sign-maker's fault for not being more specific and restrictive.

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Way I see it clearly the peoples fault for not enforcing it. My parents did the same thing during Halloween they would leave the candy outside the door with a sign, and my old man would complain and get upset when one kid took the whole thing.

Like what did you expect? Want to be lazy and put the burden on people to police themselves do not get shocked or even blame them if they go against your not enforced suggestion..

Granted if I want to make sure something is done a certain way I make sure to oversight it personally and stop any issues I may have before they become a habit.

Guess the long and short expect the worst, hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

Another quick example, this week i have created a new char on another DC. During the first hour i saw alone in the first zone around 20 leveling bots. Fighting enemys while invisible, porting from questlocation to questlocation, having the usual head > keyboard names and nearly everyone looked the same. I was so disgusted that i talked to someone there about what i saw and he mentioned the best thing is to ignore it since they are allways around and SE dont seem to be able or willing to handle it.

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To be fair, they terminate thousands of accounts every week for this. A post like this appears every week(on thursday) on the website. The RMT people involved just start new accounts. They consider it a cost of doing business, and as long as its still profitable theyll keep doing it. For SEs part, they havent been willing to automate the process of banning these people.

I would say SE is to blame period in the way housing is handled. They created it, and curated it to this point and it has become what I consider a raging dumpster fire. It was this way for years from what I have come to understand, and probably going to continue to be this way for a long time to come. And I'm holding out hope that it changes with the introduction of Ishgardian Housing ( and I still have never seen anyone clearly come out and say YES THERE WILL BE HOUSES IN ISHGARD, so we may be in for a big disappointment but it does seem pretty clear there will be housing there).

My opinion is probably not popular, and yes people hoarding houses is in my opinion obtuse to the intent of the game. House hoarding is not something that player can be "guilty" of though under the current "rules". I've seen someone named COOKIEMonster or something like that saying hey just bust out the 50 wards per world and give people more chances at getting a house. To me, if they aren't going to fundamentally change the way things are handled right now, that seems like a pretty good quick fix. Instanced housing would be fine for a lot of folks, bigger apartments would satisfy a lot of people, but keeping a system from a small group of friends in an FC who are for whatever reason incapable of getting a house is again 100% Square Enix's fault, 100% no one else's at all in any way shape or form. Keeping gardening away from a large chunk of the player base again 100% Square Enix's fault, not .01% any one else's. It isn't my fault, it isn't some other player's fault for hoarding houses, or whatever argument any one will concoct. 100% Square Enix needing to identify they have a massive problem, and quit ignoring the elephant in the room / forums / game / other media outlets.

I've also said in the past, if I had 2 accounts, and got a house on both and someone said a syllable to me about it trying to make me feel any kind of grief about it, I'd blist them, and be glad I did.

I am not un-caring about people who cannot get a house, I am rather disturbed the development team has seen this blossoming for however many years endlessly and have done so little. They have done SOMETHING, a few times, releasing new wards etc, but it's like putting a drop of water on a dumpster fire steadily speeding toward a hay stack. If they've got something under cover to surprise the player base with I'd say like a year ago was the time to unveil it. If this Ishgardian housing comes out and it's again a "ward neighborhood" system where there's a few large plots a handful of mediums and a gaggle of smalls, in a limited number of wards to choose from, I'm pretty sure they'll be learning how to deal with an exodus of players, and seeing more infuriated customers pissed off about the raging dumpster fire and being kept away from what I'd say are important parts of the game.

I could say "if I were in that position I'd have done this differently" but I'm not in their position. Still, sometimes I find myself saying "why the heck is this like this".. or "If I was *insert position* I'd have done this entirely differently". I do not feel the current system is a benefit to the player base in any real tangible way, I like countless others have a house in a ward where I may see 1 or 2 other people a week that actually live there. I invite people to my place often, it is a dance hall / bar and the house itself gets lots of use. I'm glad I have it. That over an "instanced" house that everyone can have a copy of does not matter to me. I would even prefer if they just made every city that gets houses "instanced" situations where you can walk up to an NPC or Gateway, and choose from a list very similar to apartments that teleports you to an instanced zone that some one owns or you yourself own. It could be a house floating on an island somewhere with a huge yard or whatever and the house sitting there for you to customize as you see fit, and every one can get one. Have a market board accessible either from the instance or just outside the instance. Give people the option to upgrade their plot for a similar amount of gil to the current in game housing market , and adjust as needed for inflation / deflation or whatever else.

Go back to limiting housing to FC's or whatever other measures are needed. But this current madness and people (rightly) flipping out on the forum and not receiving any kind of official statement (and I'm speaking of Ishgard restoration stuff here), about their future intentions for housing is just disturbing to me. I'd like to know just what we are getting from all this ishgardian restoration stuff, is it more of the same? Is it anything at all other than some npc's giving us an atta'boy? Is it going to be an instanced version of a house that we can upgrade over time given to us through the course of the MSQ? Is it just gonna be a small house that everyone gets as a starter home that will NOT be upgrade-able? Just give us something to at least give people an idea of what to expect. If it just HAS to be a super top secret secret, I don't think it'll be a secret when your players start flipping back out about the same song and dance getting sung and danced.

Please forgive the multi-posts the automated forum controls kept me from posting a longer post, and also limited by time as well.