Mogstation taking another step to the darkside

I won't defend the cash shop, but it floors me that people are this passionate about optional, cosmetic-only items. Nothing in the cash shop affects anything meaningful in-game (and to be clear, meaningful means character progression).

Some of the whining in this thread I would expect from pay-to-win options, not cosmetic mounts.

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Originally Posted by Lathander81

I see what you are saying but whether or not its a seasonal item is besides the point. This is another item that could have been in the game that we pay for monthly. Its wrong what they are doing period. All of us paid a sub and expansions to play this. Nothing like this should be locked off for more money.

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Well, an in-game seasonal item will likely go to the store any way. So I think they considered that people might want the mount to be account-wide, so they're giving it right now instead of waiting until next year only for it to be single character because it's tied to the seasonal event.

As for whether it's wrong for them to have additional items for purchase, I don't think so. You paid for the expansion, which got you the expansion's content, and you paid for subscription, which got you server access. Mog station purchases are beyond those two. Mog station purchases are not connected to any expansion as you just have to have the base game. And purchasing from the Mog Station won't give you server access, only your subscription does that.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Even if it is a slippery slope fallacy, there is always the risk that it won't be at some point in the future.

This new Mog Station item is a good example. They would have perhaps offered it in the event itself if there was no Cash Shop.

I think the accepted subscription cost for MMOs may be too low right now, which forces MMOs to invest more and more in Micro Transaction practices to ensure their profit. Problem is, price of MMO sub has stayed the same for a very long time while people seem not get ready to pay more for sub, despite inflation.

If it is a slippery slope fallacy right now, I think it won't be in future.

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You're chasing shadows. There has to be some precedence otherwise you can make fallacy claims against anything.

And no. It wouldn't have been made at all. Like I said in my previous post, the team SE has handling the MogStation are separate from the dev team. If the MogStation didn't exist, that team would be working on something else.

This idea we'd get all the cash shop stuff in-game if it weren't for that dastardly SE needs to stop. None of it would be made at all because cash shop exclusive items are designed solely for profit. Take the profit away and what incentive does SE—who we've established is a greedy company—have to make them?

Now this isn't to say I agree with their prices, timing or any of the such. I'm simply being pragmatic.

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Originally Posted by Lathander81

If you are going to say "You dont have to buy it" Dont bother...the point is after paying all this money to play the game now....Just wow.

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But I will bother.

I could clear all the way through savage and ultimate without any of those mounts. Nor would they even help me do so.

So charging money for them is fair game.

They are not needed to successfully play the game, at all.

Non-issue here.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

the team SE has handling the MogStation are separate from the dev team. If the MogStation didn't exist, that team would be working on something else.

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Different skill sets.

If they weren't working on the mogstation most of them would be in the unemployment line.

You've got things like

frontend developers, backend developers, platform integration engineers, project managers,
marketers, graphic designers, story writers, game-designers, community managers, monetization teams, payment-processing engineers (I should know this one's actual name - a good friend of mine specializes in designing the engineering behind processing global payment systems),
animators, riggers, body-modelers, face-modelers, effects modelers, static-object modelers, scene designers, etc... (a friend of mine specializes in leading a team of people who just rig faces so they can be animated in movie effects - and no his team is NOT the one that screwed up Henry Clavel's mustache - "3D modeler" is a term that covers a broad range of different specialists you have to hire separately unless you're hiring interns).

- these are all different skill sets.

And I'm sure that's only a small segment of the types of folks required.

Remember good ol days when we had shop in Classic WoW? All those cool mounts you could buy with real money, yeah... good times.
We're living in 2k20, where you need to buy season passes, pay additional cash for stuff in games with subscription, charge for New Game+ and even demand 2 dollars for changing color of the hair in DoA that have over 100 purchasble DLC.
It's business and lately people forgetting that big companies are not their friends.

there are no sub mmos today(that im aware of) that dont have a cash shop its just a product of the times the 15$ a month model just isn't paying the bills anymore when you factor in employee pay, production time and upkeep as well as server maintenance its all expensive as hell the cash shop subsidizes that expense.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Remember good ol days when we had shop in Classic WoW? All those cool mounts you could buy with real money, yeah... good times.
We're living in 2k20, where you need to buy season passes, pay additional cash for stuff in games with subscription, charge for New Game+ and even demand 2 dollars for changing color of the hair in DoA that have over 100 purchasble DLC.
It's business and lately people forgetting that big companies are not their friends.

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(not argument against you or something, just adding a point)
Thing is, companies are simply abiding by supply and demand. It's not their fault people are willing to buy these things and make it a profitable business strategy. People should be more strict with where they draw the line with their wallet and feedback. I'm betting many who criticize the Cash Shop's existence still do buy items from there (as have I regretfully).

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Originally Posted by SamRF

(not argument against you or something, just adding a point)
Thing is, companies are simply abiding by supply and demand. It's not their fault people are willing to buy these things and make it a profitable business strategy. People should be more strict with where they draw the line their wallet and feedback. I'm betting many who criticize the Cash Shop's existence still do buy items from there (as have I regretfully).

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Simply put, if you see something you like and it's within your budget of disposable income, then feel free to buy it. If not, feel free not to buy it. There is no need to complicate the matter.

That said, it's another issue altogether if you think the game itself is not giving you what you consider is worth the price you paid for it. Then I can see why having additional purchases would not look favorably, especially if those additional purchases would make the game worth the price more.

But if that's the case, then first you have to identify if FFXIV fits those two conditions for you, and if it does, then frame the discussion around those two conditions, not simply about having additional purchases beyond the price of game + subscription.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You're chasing shadows. There has to be some precedence otherwise you can make fallacy claims against anything.

And no. It wouldn't have been made at all. Like I said in my previous post, the team SE has handling the MogStation are separate from the dev team. If the MogStation didn't exist, that team would be working on something else.

This idea we'd get all the cash shop stuff in-game if it weren't for that dastardly SE needs to stop. None of it would be made at all because cash shop exclusive items are designed solely for profit. Take the profit away and what incentive does SE—who we've established is a greedy company—have to make them?

Now this isn't to say I agree with their prices, timing or any of the such. I'm simply being pragmatic.

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I kind of doubt those claims. It seems to me that you are getting tricked by PR.

Can't wait for the next cash shop complaint thread when they add something new again.

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Originally Posted by Lathander81

So now seasonal mounts added to the cash-shop with no chance of getting it in game. This is turning into a wallet drain game. We already pay 15+ for sub, pay for additional retainers and expansions. Now we have to buy seasonal event mounts that is more expensive than the sub? WOW SE you are going too far. If you are going to say "You dont have to buy it" Dont bother...the point is after paying all this money to play the game now they are starting to gate seasonal items in the cashshop....Just wow.

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It's almost like SE is a company that wants to make a profit! Who wouldve thunk it!

Seriously though, get over yourselves. You pay 15 a month for the content they promised you (which is overwhelmingly most of the game). Complaining that "Oh nooz, a mount thats purely cosmetic I cant get in game!" sounds pretty damn entitled to me, especially since they dont release Mog station content that often and this game goes to great lengths as it is to give you fun stuff akin to that. In fact, easily some of the best and funnest mounts and glamours in the game are achievable in game. But losing your S over a mogstation mount? Geez. Look, SE isnt perfect, and there's a lot to criticize and discuss, but a mount on mogstation isnt one of them.


But lets be real: If any of you feel that strongly about it, that you feel this is them ripping you off, go find a game or dev thatll give you everything for 15 a month, no strings attached. Otherwise cool it with the entitlement, buy the mount if you want it, wait for a sale, or just hush up about it. People be acting like $24 for a mount is a huge deal, but I am willing to be that most of the complainers spend that much in a week on things that are even more frivolous than a mount thatll last you til you stop playing this game.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I kind of doubt those claims. It seems to me that you are getting tricked by PR.

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What evidence or precedence is there that suggests that it's all a big scam and we're all being tricked because these could have been in the regular game if it weren't for the mogstation? It's really weird that a spriggan mount is bringing all the conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork. The problem with those kinds of ideas is that they exist because they makes people feel better about themselves if they've "figured it out" and that anyone who buys in is a sucker.

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Originally Posted by Lathander81

So now seasonal mounts added to the cash-shop with no chance of getting it in game. This is turning into a wallet drain game. We already pay 15+ for sub, pay for additional retainers and expansions. Now we have to buy seasonal event mounts that is more expensive than the sub? WOW SE you are going too far. If you are going to say "You dont have to buy it" Dont bother...the point is after paying all this money to play the game now they are starting to gate seasonal items in the cashshop....Just wow.

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Eh.. it's not even that good looking, I'd never farm for it. I think the 4 seater car is the best most useful mount and that was not "pay to buy". As long as they keep the "ugly" stuff on the mog station and the cool stuff that I actually want in game then I'm good ;).

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

What evidence or precedence is there that suggests that it's all a big scam and we're all being tricked because these could have been in the regular game if it weren't for the mogstation? It's really weird that a spriggan mount is bringing all the conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork. The problem with those kinds of ideas is that they exist because they makes people feel better about themselves if they've "figured it out" and that anyone who buys in is a sucker.

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My only evidence would be common sense and logical reasoning with how PR operates. SE is no indie game company, it's really not a stretch to assume those claims are simply PR management.

I don't believe that you're a sucker if you do buy stuff from Cash Shop (I have bought stuff too), I'm just putting forward arguments of what kind of game we might be promoting if Cash Shop is tolerated to get more significant. If that's the kind of game you want, or are okay with, then by all means you should buy stuff from the Cash Shop. I'm just saying that there could be a potential concern you are not aware of, even with seemingly harmless micro transactions.

Just get a job and order one less a pizza a month and boom there is your mount money

Possibly an unpopular opinion but SE should probably add in FFXIV bonds/tokens at some point.

That would be an easy way to make money, and it would actually help out the players who can't afford the sub at the moment with real money but can easily get the in-game money meaning more players can still play.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

But I will bother.

I could clear all the way through savage and ultimate without any of those mounts. Nor would they even help me do so.

So charging money for them is fair game.

They are not needed to successfully play the game, at all.

Non-issue here.

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I dont care for Ultimates and you dont need to clear them to play the story so I would be fine if they are behind a paywall. ;)

Cosmetics are important to players. A lot of the content is stuffed full with rewards because they know that a lot of it is only done because of these rewards. Most of these rewards are glamour, hair, pets, mounts and now new dye. SE would not sell us so many cosmetic items including mounts if people did not want them. They are (next to the challenge) for a lot of people the reason they farm stuff. So yes they are quite important.

I would be less against the cash shop if there are certain things:
1. Old events items should be cheap. They are basically selling something that was once free ingame for real money. Including stuff that can be eaten. (Yoshida even once said that they are not selling those event items to earn money but to give players a chance to own them...yet the prices tell us something quite different..)
2. Any exclusive cash shop item should be either in the game and buying it would only give it to you faster or there should be a way to exchange ingame currency for cash shop money or sell the items ingame.

Win Win for everyone. Those with income that they want to spend on these digital items can still do it and ignore the grind, the rest can either grind the currency or just the item directly.

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Originally Posted by bezal

Just get a job and order one less a pizza a month and boom there is your mount money

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With this you assume that anyone who is against cash shop is just against it because they are poor. Thats not true at all. I did buy stuff in the past (when I still believed that this will help the game..then I saw how we got less and less) and I could buy stuff now but I dont. I dont care if you do. The bad ones are still SE who are doing quite fine with creating items that people want to spend money on. Its the sad truth that as soon as a cool mount is shown the first question some ask is: Will this be in the mog station again?

In the end they should already earn quite a bit of money from the potions and old event items. I just dont see any need for them to sell exlcusive stuff to us..especially when they already sell ingame items with real merchandise.

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Originally Posted by bezal

Just get a job and order one less a pizza a month and boom there is your mount money

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Fan of EA games?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I dont care for Ultimates and you dont need to clear them to play the story so I would be fine if they are behind a paywall. ;) .

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I 100% agree with the point you're making, but I would also like to point out that the analogy is slightly flawed because it mixes up content and rewards.

It would be more accurate to compare it to letting you complete your ultimates, extreme trials, etc, but then you need to pay a real life fee to actually obtain your loot, tokens, and weapons.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

I 100% agree with the point you're making, but I would also like to point out that the analogy is slightly flawed because it mixes up content and rewards.

It would be more accurate to compare it to letting you complete your ultimates, extreme trials, etc, but then you need to pay a real life fee to actually obtain your loot, tokens, and weapons.

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Yeah I guess it might be better, my point was just that in the end you dont need Ultimates to play the game and since its fine that we have to pay for the items since they are not main part of the game, it should be fine to pay for that too. And then they could use it to make more ultimates too. ;)

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Originally Posted by Lathander81

So now seasonal mounts added to the cash-shop with no chance of getting it in game. This is turning into a wallet drain game. We already pay 15+ for sub, pay for additional retainers and expansions. Now we have to buy seasonal event mounts that is more expensive than the sub? WOW SE you are going too far. If you are going to say "You dont have to buy it" Dont bother...the point is after paying all this money to play the game now they are starting to gate seasonal items in the cashshop....Just wow.

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everything should be attainable in game if you have a sub!
if the game had a f2p and sub options i would understand having a mogstation but even then i would expect Subbed players to be Able to get everything in game.
shouldn't let this post die.
#SubWhatIsItGoodFor

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Fan of EA games?

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You want to complain and criticize companies for using loot boxes (which are essentially gambling proxies)? Sure Im down with people on that. You want to complain about companies designing a whole game then breaking off massive chunks to sell to you as DLC day one? Cool, Im on board. You want to complain about a company selling you a cosmetic which has 0 impact on the gameplay, is purely for personal entertainment, and is part of a store which is not even a fraction of the total game content and half those items are from in game events you could have gotten yourself? Nah, not gonna jump on board with that.

There are scummy business practices for sure. There are plenty of things for us as consumers to complain about. This isnt one of them. So dont conflate toxic practices worth legitimate scrutiny with side crap that doesnt mean anything in the end.

Oh and Bezal is right. I can tell you that in the past 7 days, Ive spent 30 some odd dollars on snacks and food. I could easily afford the mount if I wanted it just by skipping morning coffee or a sub sandwich at lunch. Hell, itd be a double benefit - get the mount and better health by cutting out the crap I eat.

Maybe if I eat one less pizza my spriggan mount will smile instead of grimacing while carrying me... ‘ v ‘

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I dont care for Ultimates and you dont need to clear them to play the story so I would be fine if they are behind a paywall. ;)

Cosmetics are important to players. A lot of the content is stuffed full with rewards because they know that a lot of it is only done because of these rewards. Most of these rewards are glamour, hair, pets, mounts and now new dye. SE would not sell us so many cosmetic items including mounts if people did not want them. They are (next to the challenge) for a lot of people the reason they farm stuff. So yes they are quite important.

I would be less against the cash shop if there are certain things:
1. Old events items should be cheap. They are basically selling something that was once free ingame for real money. Including stuff that can be eaten. (Yoshida even once said that they are not selling those event items to earn money but to give players a chance to own them...yet the prices tell us something quite different..)
2. Any exclusive cash shop item should be either in the game and buying it would only give it to you faster or there should be a way to exchange ingame currency for cash shop money or sell the items ingame.

Win Win for everyone. Those with income that they want to spend on these digital items can still do it and ignore the grind, the rest can either grind the currency or just the item directly.

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Why should everything be in the game? I'd agree with this if everything was being made by the main dev team. But it's not, and honestly, if that was the case I know for a fact our subs would be alot higher. That's just how buisnesses work. Besides this cashshop we have in XIV is NOTHING compared to ESO. Go play THAT game and deal with that shop then you'll see how good we have it here. Also it's not like we don't get mounts and stuff ingame that'll never hit the shop. Hell The moogle dance or any of those dances for one. I'd LOVE to buy that but you can only get it one way. So why is that ok but a simple mount isn't? It can go both ways. We get tons of stuff that's locked to odd modes and grinds in the game. The cash shop getting one of two mounts on it's own is not that big of a deal.

I'm afraid it is a slippery slope and will turn like some other MMO i've saw where 80% of the devlopment time where spent on cash shop item.

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Originally Posted by Vherkin

I'm afraid it is a slippery slope and will turn like some other MMO i've saw where 80% of the devlopment time where spent on cash shop item.

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Seems like the slowest slippery slope in history.

More like a sloppery slope, amirite?

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Originally Posted by Vherkin

I'm afraid it is a slippery slope and will turn like some other MMO i've saw where 80% of the devlopment time where spent on cash shop item.

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.. taking a while to slip then. Cash shop opened in 2014.

Slippery slopes are also generally logical fallacies.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

With this you assume that anyone who is against cash shop is just against it because they are poor. Thats not true at all. I did buy stuff in the past (when I still believed that this will help the game..then I saw how we got less and less) and I could buy stuff now but I dont. I dont care if you do. The bad ones are still SE who are doing quite fine with creating items that people want to spend money on. Its the sad truth that as soon as a cool mount is shown the first question some ask is: Will this be in the mog station again?

In the end they should already earn quite a bit of money from the potions and old event items. I just dont see any need for them to sell exclusive stuff to us..especially when they already sell ingame items with real merchandise.

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The crux of the argument, no matter how you slice it, is that youre already paying money for access to content in this game, and that payment should include EVERYTHING no matter what. This is a pretty poor argument on its face since the agreement for your sub is for particular access to particular content. Youre not being promised something and they not delivering - within reason of course. Second, you seem to imply that SE is (or should be) a virtuous business with selfless practices. It's not. Its like 99% of all businesses. Theyre out there to make money. So please lets dispense with the "SE can do Better and this is just greed!" angle and be real about this. The discussion isnt about what's good or bad or some moralistic view of what SE should be, its about is it a legit business transaction or a scummy fleecing campaign.

Considering the nature of items in question, It isnt fleecing you. It's just a side feature that you can purchase for funsies. It's not EA, or Activision, or Blizzard in these regards, who use crappy Lootbox RNG with cash transactions to create a Gambling proxy, or a company that designs a full game and chunks parts just to sell it to you at day one as "DLC". This is literally "Hey we made a cool side thing in our spare time. Interested in buying it?" This, mind you, is on top of the simple fact they provide us with like 6 or 7 seasonal events per year that have pretty nice goodies. So this is in the end a reasonable business strategy. Im not gonna sit here and get my knickers in a twist over it. Ill be reasonable customer and just think "Hmmm I just bought my steak dinner, so do I feel like getting that new cheesecake desert too they just put out, or pass."

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

This is literally "Hey we made a cool side thing in our spare time. Interested in buying it?" This, mind you, is on top of the simple fact they provide us with like 6 or 7 seasonal events per year that have pretty nice goodies

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not to "ACKCHULLY" you but I feel this needs a little correcting.

This is not "spare time", this is an entire team hired and funded by their own work to make extras. This isn't the primary developer team doing extra work on the weekends or downtime, this is a whole other team they created and fund for the purpose of making these extras. It's like hiring a whole new dessert chef who only gets paid if people order the desserts.

I wish they stop making mounts and give us more casual wear instead.
The priorities should be:
Glamours > everything else > mounts

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

This is a pretty poor argument on its face since the agreement for your sub is for particular access to particular content. Youre not being promised something and they not delivering - within reason of course.

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So, in other words, the answer is to either unsubscribe or deal with it, like everything else in this game.

Good to know.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

So, in other words, the answer is to either unsubscribe or deal with it, like everything else in this game.

Good to know.

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Not to be mean but is he wrong? They are never going to get rid of the cash shop unless you want your sub prices to skyrocket. If not that then actually breaking up the game like EA or Ubi-soft or something? I'd rather keep our system we have now.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

not to "ACKCHULLY" you but I feel this needs a little correcting.

This is not "spare time", this is an entire team hired and funded by their own work to make extras. This isn't the primary developer team doing extra work on the weekends or downtime, this is a whole other team they created and fund for the purpose of making these extras. It's like hiring a whole new dessert chef who only gets paid if people order the desserts.

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So what youre saying is theyre contracting out a side content thing, so that has 0 impact on the main game development because it doesnt interfere with their dev cycle. Well, doesnt that just make it even more entitlement then? This is them using part of their revenue from one aspect of the game to generate more revenue. Imagine that, another basic business strategy!

And before cute people chime in with "Wellll they couldve used that money on the main game" everything is cost analysis based. SE execs arent twirling their mustaches thinking "How can we screw the little guy even more!!!!" It boils down to them predicting that for 'x' amount of money, they can only generate either 'y' amount of return investment if they dump into into the subscriber content or 'z' amount of return investment if its a mog station exclusive. If subscriber content always generated more money, that is where we would see the money go. Theyre not gonna make mogstation shenanigans if it gets them less bang for their buck. And if you think about a lot of what is on mogstation, that seems to be the case overall - They get more bang for their buck developing subscriber content than developing other stuff.


Point in the end is still the same. They provide us with a ton of content as is, and this is more side crap at the end of the day that you can buy if you really want it. It has no bearing on the overall game within reasonable terms.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

So, in other words, the answer is to either unsubscribe or deal with it, like everything else in this game.

Good to know.

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Yeah pretty much. Its your wallet. Dont like a service, stop opening your wallet for it.

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

Not to be mean but is he wrong? They are never going to get rid of the cash shop unless you want your sub prices to skyrocket. If not that then actually breaking up the game like EA or Ubi-soft or something? I'd rather keep our system we have now.

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We all have our opinions. I'd rather pay $30+ a month instead of $15 and get complete 100% access to everything. Micro-transactions are a disease.

Anyway, this game is way better than the other MMOs on the market, so I most likely won't be unsubbing any time soon. But if people say that their payment system now is the best way of handling it, then I'll disagree with them any day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Okay, with all the hollering about how a 'cash shop' is bad.... does anyone know of an MMO that doesn't have a cash shop? Blizzard has a cash shop - mounts, minions (pets), some glamour, name change, race change, level boosts and their mounts are all $25 and minions are all $10 - the only thing a bit better is they are account bound, not single character. SE's $24 dollar mounts are all account bound, while the cheaper ones are single character. Blizzard doesn't have housing so they don't have housing items for sale obviously. Every other MMO I have tried has a cash shop and most are worse - lootboxes are just... meh. NOTHING in SE's cash shop is necessary to play the game and play it well. They are optional items that hey, if you have some extra cash, might be worth buying!

And the fact that unlike most games, Se allows people to pay a little bit if they missed a seasonal event to get the nifty things that still do not change game play for you, is a nice gesture in my eyes.

Good luck finding an MMO that doesn't have a cash shop.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

We all have our opinions. I'd rather pay $30+ a month instead of $15 and get complete 100% access to everything. Micro-transactions are a disease.

Anyway, this game is way better than the other MMOs on the market, so I most likely won't be unsubbing any time soon. But if people say that their payment system now is the best way of handling it, then I'll disagree with them any day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Personally, rather keep an easy 15 a month sub and let me pick and choose what additional cosmetic shenanigans I want to buy then pay 30+ a month for stuff Ill probably not be interested in. Even if its 15 more a month, thats an extra 180 a year. I spend maybe 60 on optional items per year at most. Micro transactions arent a disease. Theyre a selling tool that can be good or bad, depending how theyre used. What mogstation does? Thats fine. Selling me gambling proxies or DLC thats just the main game chopped off bits, not fine.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

So what youre saying is theyre contracting out a side content thing, so that has 0 impact on the main game development because it doesnt interfere with their dev cycle. Well, doesnt that just make it even more entitlement then? This is them using part of their revenue from one aspect of the game to generate more revenue. Imagine that, another basic business strategy!

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I'm.. not sure why you think I'm arguing with your overall point, I just feel the clarification of what the cash shop team actually is is important before any further arguments around it are made. Yes, they are totally side content. I am one of those people who understands if the cash shop didn't exist those items wouldn't exist. I have bought a few things from the shop myself and am fully aware that it is a luxury on top of luxury offering.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

So, in other words, the answer is to either unsubscribe or deal with it, like everything else in this game.

Good to know.

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That is the reality of the situation. Microtransactions like them or not are here to stay expecting otherwise is foolish. People may have differing opinions but I do think that any opinion that revolves around removal of the cash shop is pipe dream.

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Originally Posted by Awha

That is the reality of the situation. Microtransactions like them or not are here to stay expecting otherwise is foolish. People may have differing opinions but I do think that any opinion that revolves around removal of the cash shop is pipe dream.

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Yep. Can't close Pandora's Box once it has been opened. Some games are just better at hiding it than others. The vast majority of the content we receive is implemented in game as part of our subscription, so I can't really complain. Were that to change then yeah I'd probably be pretty vocal about it, but hopefully it doesn't. Most of the stuff that goes on the Mogstation I don't care about, but once in a great while they will add something that I have a mighty need for.