Storm's Eye Is a Chore

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Then, give me a Delirium suggestion that isn't just as bad as what we have? I don't have one on hand that wouldn't require larger diversity reworks for DRK.

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That's my point though: just changing Delirium alone won't really do much either, which is why most suggestions for it are pretty pointless. Like I said, Delirium is not even the biggest issue, it's merely one that's the easiest to meme on.

As for my "suggestion" I've already given it plenty of times - revert Delirium and a bunch of other skills to SB state while adding more things to spend MP on, to avoid Edge becoming just as spammy as DA was.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That being said, Inner Release v1 was an objectively more nuanced and integral fit into Warrior's toolkit, and forfeiting it for v2 effectively gutted a fair bit of its mechanical complexity. Bringing v1 back for Warrior wouldn't just be a band-aid fix; it'd be a legitimate improvement -- one that brings back gauge manipulation via Onslaught rather than pooling all complexity merely on how much Storm's Eye duration you had to waste before it. And note... we're on a WAR thread here; it's hardly out of purpose to worry about both tanks here.

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Oh yeah, I'm not arguing that reverting IR would be bad - pre 4.2 WAR was great and I would love it returned to that state. Heck, I was the one who made that panicked thread, pleading for SE not to go through with the IR revamp as soon as we got the 4.2 patch notes and have been constantly whining about it ever since lol.

I just have an issue with suggesting that it's somehow a better fit for DRK - yeah it doesn't clash with DRK's gcd nuance, but that's just because DRK has nearly zero gcd nuance to begin with. It's still just tacked on and doesn't bring anything good to the job tough.
It's a better fit in similar way as it's better to break your left hand than your right if you're right-handed - it still sucks either way and certainly doesn't help, but I guess at least you can still write..?

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Originally Posted by Satarn

That's my point though: just changing Delirium alone won't really do much either, which is why most suggestions for it are pretty pointless. Like I said, Delirium is not even the biggest issue, it's merely one that's the easiest to meme on.

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Dark mainly lacks interactivity within its own kit. None of the moving parts are connected to each other.

Delirium itself is the crux of this because it is the one that can most readily change (I think very few people actually like Weaker IR) and can serve as the fulcrum to "Fix" the rest of the kit. ( Fix being subjective of course - For some anything less than Heavensward is unacceptable while others are perfectly satisfied with its current iteration.)

But this isn't the thread for that.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Dark mainly lacks interactivity within its own kit. None of the moving parts are connected to each other.

Delirium itself is the crux of this because it is the one that can most readily change (I think very few people actually like Weaker IR) and can serve as the fulcrum to "Fix" the rest of the kit. ( Fix being subjective of course - For some anything less than Heavensward is unacceptable while others are perfectly satisfied with its current iteration.)

But this isn't the thread for that.

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Neh, if you could only adjust a single skill then I'd say you could fix much more with Edge of Shadow. Reduce MP cost and remove the Darkside effect and you make buff upkeep not a joke anymore, forcing DRKs to save mp for using Flood every 30 seconds and effectively add more MP to play around with - both giving some more activity between raid buff bursts. Because Delirium has no connection to the kit to begin with, it'd be pretty hard to come up with anything that would somehow miraculously fix the synergy.

As for WAR, I think the changes to Infuriate(both adding charges and Inner Chaos) could've brought some good to WAR if it wasn't for the direct crits. The way Infuriate works right now, it's kind of a resource to manage in itself, along with the beast gauge, but lack of synergy with Litany, Chain and Voice makes managing this resource feel pointless half the time.
That said, if SE didn't make IC an auto directcrit then it'd be more optimal to use both Infuriate charges during IR rather than outside of it. As stupid as the whole "spam one gcd 5 times" thing is, I find the direct crits even more detrimental. I think simply reverting that effect to old Berserk buff and not allowing for Nascent Chaos to stack with it, would at least add some resource management in downtime back.

Just reverting IR and Berserk in their entirety isn't that simple either. Old gauge management partly depended on using Butcher's Block combo in order to not overcap and we've used Infuriate quite differently, which would affect Nascent Chaos. We also now have Nascent Flash, which heavily depends on those small windows of free directcrits from IR and Infuriate in order to be an effective heal. I'm sure it could be all worked around somehow, but it's not a quick and easy fix.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

How? That's literally just swapping Bloodspiller spam for EoS spam and a free TBN. Not to mention it'd be about four times as strong, given that an oGCD has no opportunity cost.

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Both oGCD share the CD which is 2 seconds.
It would add to the APM, but i would also make delirium cost 100 blood gauge in this case.

New delirium:
For 12 seconds your MP abilities does not cost anything, MP generating skills gets 50 potency bonus when MP is above 5000.
Cost: 100 gauge
Cooldown: 90 seconds

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Both oGCD share the CD which is 2 seconds.
It would add to the APM, but i would also make delirium cost 100 blood gauge in this case.

New delirium:
For 12 seconds your MP abilities does not cost anything, MP generating skills gets 50 potency bonus when MP is above 5000.
Cost: 100 gauge
Cooldown: 90 seconds

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if you want the cost being high it need to be 80 as maximun and leave those 20 left to be a room to avoid overflowing, 100 will make you overflow pretty often since all the gauge spenders are 50 so you can be in a situation you overflow 10 gauge.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Both oGCD share the CD which is 2 seconds.
It would add to the APM, but i would also make delirium cost 100 blood gauge in this case.

New delirium:
For 12 seconds your MP abilities does not cost anything, MP generating skills gets 50 potency bonus when MP is above 5000.
Cost: 100 gauge
Cooldown: 90 seconds

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Consider, what is the actual potency of a Bloodspiller once including its GCD opportunity cost? (Hint: a bit less than 200 potency.) You used to just barely get 5 of these over the 10 seconds. That's worth roughly 1k potency.

At a 2-second CD, every GCD would include a EoS. Potentially more often, actually, since it'd be better practice to clip your GCD for the opportunity cost of a partial GCD than waste a potential free EoS. That's worth 2500 potency. Or, 3000 with your suggested extended duration. (If you double the gauge cost, ~2800 potency and now you've forced Delirium to delay Living Shadow, or vice versa, where they'd otherwise be synced. Of course, if we also grant your bonus potency for having 50+% MP despite the skill causing nothing to cost MP, you'd then have up to 3000 potency again via two SSs and a C&S.)

So what are you gutting to support that, since DRK is certainly not a whole 1333 ppm short of GNB?

No thanks on old IR X 1000

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

No thanks on old IR X 1000

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No thanks on Onslaught being anything but thoughtless apm. No thanks on any management of Storm's Eye in respect to Inner Release. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much complexity are you okay with for Warrior? 1? Maybe 2 on an ambitious day?

I get the Storm's Eye AoE complaints. I do. It's an issue whereby we have a conflict of interest that does not feel good and over which we have little real control. But that's a far cry from leaving superfluous -- or outright removing -- previous means of control just so we don't have to use even their meager contributions to job depth. That's what IRv2 did. That's what the Upheaval change did. That's what the second charge on Infuriate has done. All the nuances that let me enjoy Warrior even when stuck 99% of the time in Deliverance have since been removed. If that's the direction you support, we're going to have to agree to disagree. But that agreement is not going to mean I'll stop pointing out every toolkit opportunity that refusal to allow for depth has wasted.

Seems like the easy fix for Storms Eye is to just make it work like other 30 duration buffs that stack to 60. If you activate Storm's Eye while the buff is still up it adds another 30 seconds to a maximum of 60. More flexibility in when you can use it, more resistance to invuln phases, same amount of casts.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Both oGCD share the CD which is 2 seconds.
It would add to the APM, but i would also make delirium cost 100 blood gauge in this case.

New delirium:
For 12 seconds your MP abilities does not cost anything, MP generating skills gets 50 potency bonus when MP is above 5000.
Cost: 100 gauge
Cooldown: 90 seconds

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I don't think you understand what people mean when they're complaining about SHB DRK being lower APM, nor that you've actually thought through how this new Delirium would work in actual fight.

What people usually ask for is more MP management and APM during downtime and all you did was add a second burst window consisting 12 seconds worth of double weaving EoS and FoS every gcd, still with zero thought required. Yes, it's more APM, but it's empty APM, still focused in a small window.

The 100 gauge cost also removes 1.5 "natural" Bloodspillers per minute from the GCD rotation, which makes for even more 123 combo spam.

Furthermore, you'll want to still use this Delirium at pretty much the same point in the opener as right now, but due to double weaving required to capitalize on its effect, you no longer have space to weave other ogcds and thus mis align them from raid buffs, which will be an issue until the next time your Delirium window syncs up with them.

Also Hydelyn forbid you have to use any defensive cooldowns during this, because that's a straight up loss of 300 potency per ogcd weaved at least. Same if you need to quickly disengage between gcds to avoid an AoE or something.

[edit] Nvm, I goofed and forgot about EoS and FoS not just having same recast, but both activating it for the other. The double weaving issues don't apply, however another problem arises. You've basically doubled down on Edge being "all the bad from DA without the good", by adding more spamming of a single ogcd button without even restoring the necessity for MP management, nor spacing those ogcds more evenly.