Viera and Hrothgar clans detailed on official site

I don't know if people are that tired or just getting crazy from who knows what.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

I'm sure we'll be able to achieve these shades of skin tone with the Rava clan.

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Sure we'll be able to. But I struggle to call the Rava render "umber". Not what I would've done, but whatever.

its not really outrage from me, just disappointment. if you didnt point out to somone that the renders were of two different clans of viera, they wouldnt know. if youre putting out a promo image of two supposedly different looking ppl it helps if they actually look different.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20080302054606https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...49/unknown.png

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This picture just made me wonder what their hempen will look like. I've always really liked the various hempen sets (well, most!), so I can't wait to see the new sets. I totally wouldn't complain if they used either of these outfits as a jumping off point :X

https://media.giphy.com/media/wI88owRXYWADK/giphy.gif

The "Lost" Hrothgar on the site has his racial hair clipping through his ear :I that, along with the mismatched claws and toenails are really bothering me.
Also lack of tail on the 2nd dancer picture has me worried that for most outfits the Viera tail will be hidden (considering the dancer outfit looks like thin cloth, the tail should be there).

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

The "Lost" Hrothgar on the site has his racial hair clipping through his ear :I that, along with the mismatched claws and toenails are really bothering me.
Also lack of tail on the 2nd dancer picture has me worried that for most outfits the Viera tail will be hidden (considering the dancer outfit looks like thin cloth, the tail should be there).

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I could be wrong, but aren't Viera technically tail-less? I always thought they had tails as well, but then someone had pointed out that it's just a decoration piece on their armor.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I could be wrong, but aren't Viera technically tail-less? I always thought they had tails as well, but then someone had pointed out that it's just a decoration piece on their armor.

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I always thought they had a tail as well, but indeed Fran offical figure doesn't have one. Now I want to check all Viera from FFXII x)

Edit : as DC crashed had time to search useless things~ Viera never had tails, XIV concept art showed some. But this were the only time they did. XII didn't have any.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

I'm sure we'll be able to achieve these shades of skin tone with the Rava clan.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20080302054606https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...49/unknown.png

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Isn't there some official source that they were Rava and Veena respectively? If anything the clans have gotten more distinct.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

So Hrothgar females do exist, they're just rare. :v How convenient.

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Look on the bright side, that means the females may be considered nobility because of them having a queen. So when we get them, the females will automatically be nobles.

Oh would you look at that, a reverse-Miqo'te situation with the Hrothgar. It's not like we can play male Miqo'te despite of their few numbers - oh wait.

Not gonna lie, that male Viera were even mentioned kinda rubbed salt in the wound for me. The "lore excuse" is getting weaker by the second.

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Adhering to a strict code known as the Green Word, they are prohibited from contact with the outside world under threat of exile.

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So this must be the justification for the PC Viera venturing out into the world, as well as why they might not be recognized as part of the race should there be any interaction with NPCs. I refuse to believe there is a reason why the males can't break the Green Word and go adventuring if the females can.

I get it, limited time and resources are a thing. They didn't have time to make both genders for both races. But I feel using lore as an excuse for not having female Hrothgar/male Viera playable is no longer viable - especially when they themselves write the lore.

From their tidbit lore.
Sounds like the male viera and the female hrothgar won't be playable.

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

Enough mental gymnastics. It looks racist to not be able to include any black females in the game, especially when one of the blondest whitest girls' dad is black. They can improve a lot. Periodt.

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Not all black people are particularly dark skinned though, so how do you tell who is or isn't supposed to portray a black person? I'm black IRL but i'm lighter than M'naago or Fran. Can Fran be considered a black female? She's close to Beyonce's complexion but honestly, still darker.

https://i.imgur.com/9CBzUR6.jpg

The Ananta tribe are all darker skinned females, are they black? This is why I don't like drawing an equivalence between real life races and fantasy races. Things don't actually sync up with the real world. For instance, I don't know any white or asian people with purple eyes and lavender hair like Tataru.

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

But it has a bad effect on me, and I keep getting told I'm wrong for feeling and reacting that way?

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Is it a want for characters that match your skin tone, or is it just a want for someone you feel represents your real life race? I don't know what you look like IRL and black people have a wide variety of possible skin tones here in the U.S. You can be as light as Colin Powell or as dark as Wesley Snipes and still be considered black.

At any rate, it's more so the accusatory tone you've taken that people aren't going to respond well to. It's one thing to ask for more of X and another to accuse someone of bigotry (knowingly or unknowingly) for not having more of X already available.

On a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing more kinky hair options outside of the wobbly fro from the gold saucer, as unlikely as that may be.

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Originally Posted by Destati

Oh would you look at that, a reverse-Miqo'te situation with the Hrothgar. It's not like we can play male Miqo'te despite of their few numbers - oh wait.

Not gonna lie, that male Viera were even mentioned kinda rubbed salt in the wound for me. The "lore excuse" is getting weaker by the second.

So this must be the justification for the PC Viera venturing out into the world, as well as why they might not be recognized as part of the race should there be any interaction with NPCs. I refuse to believe there is a reason why the males can't break the Green Word and go adventuring if the females can.

I get it, limited time and resources are a thing. They didn't have time to make both genders for both races. But I feel using lore as an excuse for not having female Hrothgar/male Viera playable is no longer viable - especially when they themselves write the lore.

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Key difference being that Miqo'te have lived in Eorzea ever since the Calamity of Ice, while the Hrothgar live in an area where they border the Garlean Empire on either side. They also backtracked on the lore excuse before FanFest even ended, probably because they realized it sounded hypocritical and they'd be torn to shreds over it, and they said it was purely development time.

Did my post and someone else's get nuked? I don't think I was being offensive..

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

Objectively, the game lacks dark-skinned females that are important compared to everyone else. I mentioned M'naago way at the beginning of this thread, and the other I had no idea who that is, so they are rather unimportant female NPCs. Not good enough IMO. Is there something wrong with wanting a little bit more when everyone else gets more?

No one's proving me wrong about my own opinion. It's disappointing to me, and I suggested they should work on it. I never said they did it deliberately, and I never said boycott the game either. But it has a bad effect on me, and I keep getting told I'm wrong for feeling and reacting that way?

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You said there weren't ANY "black" npcs and there are npcs that have darker skin tones. No one is saying you shouldn't feel disappointed, but you shouldn't call it "racist looking" and you shouldn't say they don't exist when they do. Are there less? Sure. But I don't know what we can attribute the ghostly pale npcs or the random colored npcs so it's pretty obvious it's not a competition for who gets more representation in regards to real world races.

Edit: also I dunno about you but the darker toned Viera from the trailer looked a lot like beyonce to me, enough for me to make destiny's child jokes with my girlfriend when the trailer hit, so it's funny that you'd link a beyonce gif.

S.E.'s philosophy of game design, males versus females. (With the acception of lalafell)

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...24/167/adf.jpg

:rolleyes:

https://media.giphy.com/media/sXGtwGUi3VlXW/giphy.gif

Well a repost of what was nuked, No the game isn't on the edge of being racist, and you shouldn't feel bad or wrong about it. There's lots of darker skinned characters in this game, more than ALOT of japanese games really. Tho that doesn't matter cause this isn't earth or real life. We have CATS and blue people, this game is no were near being racist if anything it's so far on the other side of the line for a japanese game it needs an award if I'm being honest. and I say this as a black person myself. No reason to feel outraged here.

Getting outraged over non-issues is getting pretty tiresome, but I guess it provides me with entertainment when bored at work...

I mean, as a literally blackest duskwight elezen, according to this thread I should be outraged that there's only a single equally dark-skinned unnamed duskwight NPC in the whole game, right? Come on...

The Lost seem interesting. Will need to see their customization options though.

If you can make them feral and Werewolf badass I may consider shapeshifting but I'll likely do what I usually do and go back to Femroe.

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The 2 races lore does confirm the existence of both genotypes so look forward to NPC only Bunnyboys and Lion girls I guess.

I find it kinda sad that Helion/The Lost are basically going to go with the same color palettes/hues that the Roegadyn have with Hellguard and Sea Wolves.

Oh well.

I'm glad other people have expressed the mild annoyance at how the Hrothgar lore is explained. Like really, grrr...

The lost lore isnt very different to hellsguard,
Sea wolfs and Helions ain't that much different to me either.

While I appreciate the lore, it does rub me the wrong way when I hear the descriptions of the opposite genders for both races. I mean, dammit all they are already not playable SE, do you really need to make Male Vieras sound like awesome shadow bunny ninjas, protecting the forest from evil??? And ofc the only other truly matriarchal race, with the possibility of savage warrior queens equal if not greater in ferocity to the males is also locked. >__> consider me miffed.

so it's chocobunny V snowbunny and stripes V spots?

i'm having a hard time finding any other real differences

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Originally Posted by Nihility

so it's chocobunny V snowbunny and stripes V spots?

i'm having a hard time finding any other real differences

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Looks like The Lost have Black Sclera which is pretty cool

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Originally Posted by Nihility

so it's chocobunny V snowbunny and stripes V spots?

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the reveal trailer for hrothgar showed a leopard male in the helion clan, so both are likely just color swaps with one group getting warm undertones and the other cool.

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Originally Posted by SkyEdge1

While I appreciate the lore, it does rub me the wrong way when I hear the descriptions of the opposite genders for both races. I mean, dammit all they are already not playable SE, do you really need to make Male Vieras sound like awesome shadow bunny ninjas, protecting the forest from evil??? And ofc the only other truly matriarchal race, with the possibility of savage warrior queens equal if not greater in ferocity to the males is also locked. >__> consider me miffed.

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Male Vieras don't even sound like this in Japanese, they "live nomadic lifes" in their description. So "protectors from shadows" is English thing, have no idea why they wrote it like this.

As for Hroths I'm glad that they mentioned females at all and, more than that, Helion tribe seems to be very matriarchal. Because they were able to write "they reproduce with some undepeveloped way and do not have women" to simply close the whole topic about opposite genders. At this point having them in lore is a good thing.

UPD. Somehow ended up with daily limit on second message in a day. So will edit this one:

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm sorry..... but I just can't buy the lore of the Hrothgar.

A species that exists where females are the majority sex can exist and makes sense as one male can have several female mates at the same time in order to keep the species alive. The reverse is not true. Unless the queen of the Hrothgar is in a perpetual state of pregnancy, and every birth is to multiple offspring, then the population of the species would dwindle off and die due to too few new children being born.

I realize it's a fantasy game and I'm supposed to have a suspension of disbelief... but this is one point I know I will have a hard time accepting.

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I am agree that their story is a bit confusing, but, well, it is not even a lore yet but simple description. We still know nothing about Hroths. Maybe they live so long that there is no need for giving birth too often and lack of females is not really a problem? Or they reproduce in more animalistic way with a lot of children at once with short pregnancy period? Maybe both at time, so living long and reproducing with a lot of children? There are some ways to play on this aspect so I suppose we should wait before making any strict conclusions.

Yet no one bring up the fact that there is lion, tiger, leopard and wolf in, akhem, one race. If there is a lion woman and wolf man - what kind of children will be born from this couple!?

I'm sorry..... but I just can't buy the lore of the Hrothgar.

A species that exists where females are the majority sex can exist and makes sense as one male can have several female mates at the same time in order to keep the species alive. The reverse is not true. Unless the queen of the Hrothgar is in a perpetual state of pregnancy, and every birth is to multiple offspring, then the population of the species would dwindle off and die due to too few new children being born.

I realize it's a fantasy game and I'm supposed to have a suspension of disbelief... but this is one point I know I will have a hard time accepting.

Any lore that confirms existence at all is decidedly good lore, they seem to be quite deliberately leaving a door open for later on at the very least.

I find the Veena interesting, they sound like they are natural wanderers compared to the Rava, both groups though sound like they would fit right in within Gridania once the xenophobia wore off, I can imagine the Viera and Padjal getting along quite well, and a Viera cnj would just.. fit, given that the whole point of that story is basically following the will of the elementals and acting as a caretaker of the forest, pretty much trying to reclaim their connection with nature and the green word to some extent after leaving home.

I can imagine quite a bit of added significance in Kan-E asking the elementals to show one favor at the end of the initial Gridania storylne

Hrothgar going off to Ul'dah to become gladiators would also be pretty fitting, appearance wise they match up to Raubahn pretty well, it's always got to be an experience for that man to have someone at eye level, or even more than that to have to /look up/ a bit to someone lol...

On an unrelated note to lore, they changed the face on the render for the Lost example of the Hrothgar.
Someone on reddit posted a side-by-side of the face from yesterday and this morning: https://i.redd.it/y09x0jws0tr21.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rollout

On an unrelated note to lore, the changed the face of the render for the Lost example of the Hrothgar.
Someone on reddit posted a side-by-side of the face from yesterday and this morning: https://i.redd.it/y09x0jws0tr21.jpg

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How could they do something like this so quickly? I've always assumed making changes like this was very time consuming.

edit:
on second thought, maybe they just changed the customization options? like they picked a different face and ears?

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Originally Posted by Rollout

On an unrelated note to lore, they changed the face on the render for the Lost example of the Hrothgar.
Someone on reddit posted a side-by-side of the face from yesterday and this morning: https://i.redd.it/y09x0jws0tr21.jpg

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that's... interesting. What kind of customization we will have!?

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Originally Posted by Senn

How could they do something like this so quickly? I've always assumed making changes like this was very time consuming.

edit:
on second thought, maybe they just changed the customization options? like they picked a different face and ears?

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Could be from a different build, could be shopped so that there isn't clipping in a promotional still. We've known since Tokyo that the Hrothgar are still very much works in progress, with the models only having reached a presentable state just before the event.

The ears in the left version look more canine than leonine, which makes me think their customization just isn't finished and the head ended up with mismatched ears.

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Originally Posted by Levy9

Not all black people are particularly dark skinned though, so how do you tell who is or isn't supposed to portray a black person? I'm black IRL but i'm lighter than M'naago or Fran. Can Fran be considered a black female? She's close to Beyonce's complexion but honestly, still darker.

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I personally don't think skin colour is enough to make someone a specific race. Facial features are needed to make someone seem like they're african, indian, caucasian, eastern asian, etc.

But this doesn't change the fact that among the major characters in the game, dark skinned characters are very much in the minority. Among the major characters in the scions having dark hair is rare, and the ones with the darkest skin just look tanned (aside from Louisoix but he's dead so we never see him). SE seem to be very fond of pale skin and very pale hair.

What gets me about this, aside from racial representation, is that it's such a shame that SE have created races to have a tremendous amount of colour variation in hair and skin, but when it comes to really major characters we usually see the same sort of colour palettes over and over again. It kind of makes me feel like they're not using their own character creation tools to their fullest.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I personally don't think skin colour is enough to make someone a specific race. Facial features are needed to make someone seem like they're african, indian, caucasian, eastern asian, etc.

But this doesn't change the fact that among the major characters in the game, dark skinned characters are very much in the minority. Among the major characters in the scions having dark hair is rare, and the ones with the darkest skin just look tanned (aside from Louisoix but he's dead so we never see him). SE seem to be very fond of pale skin and very pale hair.

What gets me about this, aside from racial representation, is that it's such a shame that SE have created races to have a tremendous amount of colour variation in hair and skin, but when it comes to really major characters we usually see the same sort of colour palettes over and over again. It kind of makes me feel like they're not using their own character creation tools to their fullest.

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If SE is so fond of fair hair why is Lara Croft a brunette? I think you should not recognize Square Enix as a singular entity only associated with XIV. Because there's the cast of all the other FFs as well as KH and non JP titles. You need to recognize the character designers, not the whooole company. For example, Nomura and blue eyes. Look at the cast of KH. Variety of hair colors, but all pale with blue eyes. That's Nomura not SE. I think Goth Hammer-chan even had light eyes but I don't remember.

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

* I said there weren't any important black female NPCs. Obviously an opinion, again from my POV.

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No, you didn't:

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

Enough mental gymnastics. It looks racist to not be able to include any black females in the game, especially when one of the blondest whitest girls' dad is black. They can improve a lot. Periodt.

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Had you used more reasonable language you wouldn't have had any backlash to begin with. You can backtrack now all you want but "casual racism" is just as bad as casually calling someone racist like you did multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I'm glad other people have expressed the mild annoyance at how the Hrothgar lore is explained. Like really, grrr...

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I'm sure (hopeful) the game will do a much better job. For me, I just can't tell the difference to be honest. Like why are they actually two separate clans other than for gameplay purposes? o_o

This was my very first and unedited post in this thread:

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Originally Posted by Nonuel

I noticed they seem to have an aversion to including really dark-skinned females, in particular. We still have more dark-skinned males than females. The best example that comes to mind is M'naago, and she's not even that dark-skinned.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I'm sure (hopeful) the game will do a much better job. For me, I just can't tell the difference to be honest. Like why are they actually two separate clans other than for gameplay purposes? o_o

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With that I agree.

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Originally Posted by Rollout

On an unrelated note to lore, they changed the face on the render for the Lost example of the Hrothgar.
Someone on reddit posted a side-by-side of the face from yesterday and this morning: https://i.redd.it/y09x0jws0tr21.jpg

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You vs the guy she tells you not to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Gula

If SE is so fond of fair hair why is Lara Croft a brunette? I think you should not recognize Square Enix as a singular entity only associated with XIV. Because there's the cast of all the other FFs as well as KH and non JP titles. You need to recognize the character designers, not the whooole company. For example, Nomura and blue eyes. Look at the cast of KH. Variety of hair colors, but all pale with blue eyes. That's Nomura not SE. I think Goth Hammer-chan even had light eyes but I don't remember.

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Because she was made by Core Designs, a British company.