Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

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Originally Posted by Miminming

JPN community PUG a lot but i never seen them get to ozma...
is there anymore clear other than the world fist?

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People are clearing it pretty frequently from what i've seen but I would also say its likely impossible without coordination outside of the game in the BA Discord for your datacenter.

i would prefer if the system would instead of having to worry about sniping and what not, that it would grant you a token that you could use to unlock a one time duty finder queue so that you could prepare beforehand and organize instead of having to worry about getting 48 people into the same instance.

For me I believe they must make a way for people to queue for the instance. I understand how complex it is to form a premade group and actually get in BA together. But on the other hand it just doesn't feel right to have people enter an instance and start telling people they better not use the portals for BA. For example, yesterday the support fate popped and a premade was telling everyone to get to it to help those who are running BA. Then they said that if anyone who isn't in the premade enters a portal they won't get any heals and will be black listed. So several people started saying okay then, kill your own support fate.

So although I believe people in premade groups should be able to run BA together, other players shouldn't be threatened with being black listed just because they want to run it as well. If it were up to me I would kill the whole portal idea and make it so players can queue for BA only from within Hydatos and match groups with the right jobs for the run. Otherwise a lot of players are going to feel alienated and lose interest.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

For me I believe they must make a way for people to queue for the instance. I understand how complex it is to form a premade group and actually get in BA together. But on the other hand it just doesn't feel right to have people enter an instance and start telling people they better not use the portals for BA. For example, yesterday the support fate popped and a premade was telling everyone to get to it to help those who are running BA. Then they said that if anyone who isn't in the premade enters a portal they won't get any heals and will be black listed. So several people started saying okay then, kill your own support fate.

So although I believe people in premade groups should be able to run BA together, other players shouldn't be threatened with being black listed just because they want to run it as well. If it were up to me I would kill the whole portal idea and make it so players can queue for BA only from within Hydatos and match groups with the right jobs for the run. Otherwise a lot of players are going to feel alienated and lose interest.

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I totally agree, warning people to not take portals with a blacklist is WAY too overboard. We're on the same data center so we likely have the same raid groups going in and out of these instances, but I havent YET seen people threatening like that. Luckily my groups have been cautious about saying anything in /shout that could be interpreted as malicious because we NEED that fate to be killed and I've personally had to back out of BA twice (out of maybe 10) due to the instance not killing the fate.

I had one run so far where they shouted and threatened with "we WILL report you!!" "its against the rules!!!" etc... which is BS, utterly. Griefing or trolling in an malicious way surely is and should be reported, but it IS a puplic dungeon and no one can claim it. its like doing an Ex dungeon and just claim the loot with "im sry i gotta gear up my twink so you dont roll on anything!" lol

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

I had one run so far where they shouted and threatened with "we WILL report you!!" "its against the rules!!!" etc... which is BS, utterly. Griefing or trolling in an malicious way surely is and should be reported, but it IS a puplic dungeon and no one can claim it. its like doing an Ex dungeon and just claim the loot with "im sry i gotta gear up my twink so you dont roll on anything!" lol

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That right there is my biggest issue with BA at the moment is non stop threats and drama which honestly has been started every time by people on some discord that was setup essentially claiming that joining their discord to form a premade is a REQUIREMENT to do BA and anyone that takes a portal without doing so is breaking the ToS by griefing. This has annoyed me since FFXI when Sky was released as I would frequently get harassed by US based linkshells claiming they OWNED a time block in sky because they signed up on some unofficial website I never heard of and had no intention of ever visiting because I had taken out various NM's they wanted to go after. I might have been nice enough to pop things for them with the items I had if they had been civil about it but since they weren't I gave them the option of paying out the nose or go home.

I kinda wish they would remove the amount of people allowed inside and stop portals from vanishing when used. Admittedly, this may break balance as with that many people things might get steamrolled but at least people could stop complaining about not being able to get inside and play the content or absolutely having to use Discord to form a group. Which makes me wonder what are the PS4 players doing? Or are you guys just not playing BA at all?

You just use discord from your phone or tablet. It's no big deal. Do the same thing in a raid group during savage.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

I kinda wish they would remove the amount of people allowed inside and stop portals from vanishing when used. Admittedly, this may break balance as with that many people things might get steamrolled but at least people could stop complaining about not being able to get inside and play the content or absolutely having to use Discord to form a group. Which makes me wonder what are the PS4 players doing? Or are you guys just not playing BA at all?

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I use discord on my laptop to do it
It is actually sickening that people are threatening others over these portals, I have asked nicely whenever someone was around a portal i intended to use if they say good luck i thank them/ do a hug or dote if they go i wanna see in there i wish them good luck as i will be trying as well then inform my grp they may need to replace me should i be too slow. I do not own portals nobody does threatening players is hands down scummy behaviour

What I don't understand is what the public system in a dungeon created intentionally to be extremely punishing, is meant to achieve? What was their vision in making this public instead of a pre-made queue system? What made them decide "things will go much better if we remove the ability to queue premade and allow players of various classes to jump in randomly unprepared"?

I don't get it. What's the benefit to this system?

On one hand i want to do this content.

On the other hand i don't use Discord, don't even have a mic.

And every time i try to go in anyway there is either not enough people, or we wipe on either the first boss or the trash before the first boss, because people suck.

So yeah...problem

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Originally Posted by Mixt

On one hand i want to do this content.

On the other hand i don't use Discord, don't even have a mic.

And every time i try to go in anyway there is either not enough people, or we wipe on either the first boss or the trash before the first boss, because people suck.

So yeah...problem

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If it helps you decide, you don't need a mic unless you plan on leading a party or calling out mechanics. and number wise, you likely dont have to worry about either of those. You mainly just want to be able to hear callouts and hear how people are strategizing the run and stuff. The Discord servers themselves are a bit intimidating with all the different rooms, but the creators have worked pretty hard on making it accessible to new people and making it easy for them to find a group with the same goals (going in fresh, progressing on Absolute Virtue, going for the Ozma clear, etc).

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

That right there is my biggest issue with BA at the moment is non stop threats and drama which honestly has been started every time by people on some discord that was setup essentially claiming that joining their discord to form a premade is a REQUIREMENT to do BA and anyone that takes a portal without doing so is breaking the ToS by griefing. This has annoyed me since FFXI when Sky was released as I would frequently get harassed by US based linkshells claiming they OWNED a time block in sky because they signed up on some unofficial website I never heard of and had no intention of ever visiting because I had taken out various NM's they wanted to go after. I might have been nice enough to pop things for them with the items I had if they had been civil about it but since they weren't I gave them the option of paying out the nose or go home.

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All of those people giving out threats need to be reported. The Discord members (the ones facilitating the groups, not necessarily the new members) never tell people to harass anyone just because they want to enter a portal on their own. Its very well stated in the Discord rules NOT to harass anyone and if people are asking to join a BA run, invite them to the Discord so they can learn how the groups work.

I know using Discord and forcing 6-7 parties in the same instance is not the IDEAL way to tackle this content as it naturally excludes people just by existing, but the way SE has set it up....at this point, I can't really think of an alternative that effectively gets people their clears.

It took our group of 6 parties that only wanted to do a fragment run of the 1st 2 bosses two hours of exiting and re-entering Hydatos in order to all make it into the same instance. We fought with 2 other groups also actively trying the same thing. I'm sure the people just trying to hunt NMs and level got tired of all the /sh x4! /sh x5! /sh x9! They were seeing over and over and over as we all tried to figure out what instance we kept hitting.
All in all, it took a little less than 4 hours just to farm 12 fragments and some obsucure lograms. It's going to get worse by next week as more and more people want to get the shiny mount.

BA as content is pretty fun.
BA entry method is very poorly planned. I want to battle in-game, not battle with the game system.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

All of those people giving out threats need to be reported. The Discord members (the ones facilitating the groups, not necessarily the new members) never tell people to harass anyone just because they want to enter a portal on their own. Its very well stated in the Discord rules NOT to harass anyone and if people are asking to join a BA run, invite them to the Discord so they can learn how the groups work.

I know using Discord and forcing 6-7 parties in the same instance is not the IDEAL way to tackle this content as it naturally excludes people just by existing, but the way SE has set it up....at this point, I can't really think of an alternative that effectively gets people their clears.

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Then maybe we need to petition SE to change the way they have this setup that way it makes it more accessible to everyone who is interested in doing the content but not interested in using discord or any third-party programs that are deemed necessary at this point to complete the dungeon

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

I kinda wish they would remove the amount of people allowed inside and stop portals from vanishing when used. Admittedly, this may break balance as with that many people things might get steamrolled but at least people could stop complaining about not being able to get inside and play the content or absolutely having to use Discord to form a group. Which makes me wonder what are the PS4 players doing? Or are you guys just not playing BA at all?

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Or what they can do is create multiple instances of the BA dungeon and do not close the portals until the 10 minutes are up so that way when one instance of the dungeon has its 48 or 56 players then another one will be open for others to go in until 10 minutes has elapsed

my primary issue currently is that eurekan fragments only drop within the BA. they NEED to be dropped outside of it.

1. for players who just want gear progress for eureka as a whole, the elemental bonuses are useful outside of BA so why can't we get them outside of that? From what I understand it can make soloing significantly easier which will be huge as time goes on, and especially post shadowbringers. And for the record your relic isn't *technically* finished till you get the elemental bonus after 100 fragments, so the whole "don't need BA for relic" is pretty untrue.
2. it allows BA groups to focus more on clearing content, not farming it then leaving it early, this also may heal some congestion of BA access fights, cause a good portion of them are frag parties.
3. it also gives more players incentive to do nm's when they reach lvl 60 and get their weapon.
4. it allows players to prepare for BA before going in, this would then make players more confident to actually access the BA once they have progressed a certain point. Which also means over time BA becomes easier to pug and clear as more people's gear is higher, this would then function similarly to say any savage tier. There is always a way to get max gear lvl outside of savage content, so it should be in eureka as well.

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Originally Posted by Darkplanet

my primary issue currently is that eurekan fragments only drop within the BA. they NEED to be dropped outside of it.

1. for players who just want gear progress for eureka as a whole, the elemental bonuses are useful outside of BA so why can't we get them outside of that? From what I understand it can make soloing significantly easier which will be huge as time goes on, and especially post shadowbringers. And for the record your relic isn't *technically* finished till you get the elemental bonus after 100 fragments, so the whole "don't need BA for relic" is pretty untrue.
2. it allows BA groups to focus more on clearing content, not farming it then leaving it early, this also may heal some congestion of BA access fights, cause a good portion of them are frag parties.
3. it also gives more players incentive to do nm's when they reach lvl 60 and get their weapon.
4. it allows players to prepare for BA before going in, this would then make players more confident to actually access the BA once they have progressed a certain point. Which also means over time BA becomes easier to pug and clear as more people's gear is higher, this would then function similarly to say any savage tier. There is always a way to get max gear lvl outside of savage content, so it should be in eureka as well.

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You don't need Eureka gear to clear the first 2 bosses. They were designed with no enrage at all so you can farm fragment. You under estimate how bad some people can be. The other night i was in a instance with no premade group and we kill ufo and 16 of us decide to head in. The other pt wipe to trash.

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Originally Posted by Darkplanet

my primary issue currently is that eurekan fragments only drop within the BA. they NEED to be dropped outside of it.

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The problem with that is if the fragments were dropped outside of BA, that content would most likely not be as active if people finish the +2 gear and give final relic weapon elemental stats.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

All of those people giving out threats need to be reported. The Discord members (the ones facilitating the groups, not necessarily the new members) never tell people to harass anyone just because they want to enter a portal on their own. Its very well stated in the Discord rules NOT to harass anyone and if people are asking to join a BA run, invite them to the Discord so they can learn how the groups work.

I know using Discord and forcing 6-7 parties in the same instance is not the IDEAL way to tackle this content as it naturally excludes people just by existing, but the way SE has set it up....at this point, I can't really think of an alternative that effectively gets people their clears.

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I went into a BA instance earlier by taking a portal against another player. I received a bunch of threats through tells, Discord DMs, people telling me they're going to report me to GMs for "griefing" or that "we know what you did". People bragging to me that I'm permabanned from their mighty BA discord, claiming nonsense like that I intentionally followed one of their players (I was at the portal first) to grief them, or saying things like "now everyone on aether will hate you!". I filed a report with a GM who followed up with me afterwards.

Apparently the instance was "reserved" by their schedule, and I need to respect their schedule while they monopolize the instance. Nobody told me this and nobody asked me nicely in the instance. I'm supposed to go on their Discord and "know" this. Good thing I'm banned from their server now, I don't need to look at the schedule anymore. Given the way that these people react, and act, I'm just going to go in again, and they're not gonna have a single say in it. I'm either going to disable the chat or report every single person who rages at me. While I'm busy handling this nonsense, I'm not contributing to the content.

I've effectively been blacklisted for trying to do the content.

I left the discord of my own volition some time ago because it takes hours of instance hopping, only to get into fights with other groups that also want to do the same content. Some of the groups are incredibly toxic/entitled, think they own the place and nobody keeps them in check, I want to do the content. Even if you put in rules telling these people to not be nasty, they'll go on their own linkshells/discords to mash their keyboards.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

What I don't understand is what the public system in a dungeon created intentionally to be extremely punishing, is meant to achieve? What was their vision in making this public instead of a pre-made queue system? What made them decide "things will go much better if we remove the ability to queue premade and allow players of various classes to jump in randomly unprepared"?

I don't get it. What's the benefit to this system?

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From what I take from the way Japanese players are playing and what SE said about the dungeon is that the way we (as in NA/EU) are doing it is not what they planned. I think they imagined that the whole playerbase (the part that plays Eureka) as whole tries to learn this dungeon slowly and build the skills to clear the dungeon over time.

I don't think they envisioned us cheesing/manipulation the system to that we can enter the dungeon with a premade group. This was never intended or they would have added a grouping system. Combine that with the new ToS and you have a perfect storm ...

Its funny how, so many thing involving Eureka end up not being done the way dev's intented it and they keep being caught up short everytime.

Premades vs PUGS aside, BA has a lot of technical issues going on with it right now

1.) Every enemy has a debuff limit of 60. This causes issues if your party has a lot of DoT classes (SMN and BRD) as some of the trash mobs requires silence/stun/sleep to interrupt a deadly ability. If it has too much debuffs up you can't interrupt it as silence/stun/sleep takes up a debuff slot. You also can't put Feint on AV which is required if you don't want half of your attacks missing
2.) Even if you didn't reach the debuff limit, there are times when the debuff display is bugged and won't show your debuffs on the boss even if it landed. This issue persists even if you turn on the settings that only shows your debuffs and makes it really hard to keep track of your DoTs. This makes SMN and BRD really awful to play as you won't know if/when you need to refresh your DoTs
3.) Last but not least, culling issues. If there are too many players/mobs in the area, the game will choose to make some things invisible. The problem is the culling priority is really messed up and can cause things like the boss,adds or even aoe markers to be invisible. Player ground AOE effect such as Shadow Flare/Salted Earth apparently counts towards this limit as well as player pets/turrets. Example of the AOE marker being invisible: https://twitter.com/mist_llDX/status...42680310943744

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Originally Posted by rowrow

Premades vs PUGS aside, BA has a lot of technical issues going on with it right now

3.) Last but not least, culling issues. If there are too many players/mobs in the area, the game will choose to make some things invisible. The problem is the culling priority is really messed up and can cause things like the boss,adds or even aoe markers to be invisible. Player ground AOE effect such as Shadow Flare/Salted Earth apparently counts towards this limit as well as player pets/turrets. Example of the AOE marker being invisible: https://twitter.com/mist_llDX/status...42680310943744

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This was especially stressful as during AV i would have the half room cleave not show up and had to guess based on my teammates positions nothing like 1 shot mechanics you can't see >_<

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Originally Posted by rowrow

Premades vs PUGS aside, BA has a lot of technical issues going on with it right now

1.) Every enemy has a debuff limit of 60. This causes issues if your party has a lot of DoT classes (SMN and BRD) as some of the trash mobs requires silence/stun/sleep to interrupt a deadly ability. If it has too much debuffs up you can't interrupt it as silence/stun/sleep takes up a debuff slot. You also can't put Feint on AV which is required if you don't want half of your attacks missing
2.) Even if you didn't reach the debuff limit, there are times when the debuff display is bugged and won't show your debuffs on the boss even if it landed. This issue persists even if you turn on the settings that only shows your debuffs and makes it really hard to keep track of your DoTs. This makes SMN and BRD really awful to play as you won't know if/when you need to refresh your DoTs
3.) Last but not least, culling issues. If there are too many players/mobs in the area, the game will choose to make some things invisible. The problem is the culling priority is really messed up and can cause things like the boss,adds or even aoe markers to be invisible. Player ground AOE effect such as Shadow Flare/Salted Earth apparently counts towards this limit as well as player pets/turrets. Example of the AOE marker being invisible: https://twitter.com/mist_llDX/status...42680310943744

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And almost every single one of these points has persisted since early in the game. Why they thought bringing 56 people into extremely difficult content with one shot mechanics that can't be consistently seen is beyond ridiculous.

In no way should that be acceptable to the playerbase. We deserve better than that.

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

From what I take from the way Japanese players are playing and what SE said about the dungeon is that the way we (as in NA/EU) are doing it is not what they planned. I think they imagined that the whole playerbase (the part that plays Eureka) as whole tries to learn this dungeon slowly and build the skills to clear the dungeon over time.

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I still don't get it though, it's like they thought to themselves "Savage raids are highly successful, but I bet they'd be even more fun if we tried to force unprepared players to throw themselves at them in random groups, potentially missing key roles like tank/healer, until somehow they luck a 0.1% chance clear!".

It also assumes that players will progress at the same pace, there will always be a trickle of new players coming into Hydatos for the first time, or getting started, thus everyone will be at completely different progression levels.

These guys are meant to design games as a profession... I like ff14 a lot but their visions are just bonkers sometimes.

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

From what I take from the way Japanese players are playing and what SE said about the dungeon is that the way we (as in NA/EU) are doing it is not what they planned. .

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This excuse, and that's all it is, can only be used so many times.

Plan better, develop better, or for Hydaelyn's sake (developers) swallow your pride and put out a dang public test server. You have a global audience, you can't think regionally anymore. There is no excuse for that.

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

From what I take from the way Japanese players are playing and what SE said about the dungeon is that the way we (as in NA/EU) are doing it is not what they planned. I think they imagined that the whole playerbase (the part that plays Eureka) as whole tries to learn this dungeon slowly and build the skills to clear the dungeon over time.

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While this is basically what the JP servers are doing progression wise, they have another problem - that is that EVERYONE wants to get into BA every Ovni spawn. You have like 3-4 players camping individual portals, players being prevented from entering after camping in Hydatos for 10 hours for a portal. It's turning into a toxic mess. The obvious and stupid answer is "just get the guaranteed entry items", these items take either way to much RNG or way to much pointless grinding time to get currently.

PW should drop clusters every kill, bunny chests and moisture boxes should drop their items far more commonly - encourage and reward the people who are forced to stay outside of BA because they lost the portal rush with a guaranteed entry for next time. This isn't too unreasonable is it?

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Originally Posted by Mix

While this is basically what the JP servers are doing progression wise, they have another problem - that is that EVERYONE wants to get into BA every Ovni spawn. You have like 3-4 players camping individual portals, players being prevented from entering after camping in Hydatos for 10 hours for a portal. It's turning into a toxic mess. The obvious and stupid answer is "just get the guaranteed entry items", these items take either way to much RNG or way to much pointless grinding time to get currently.

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Too much time? You have over 3 months!

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Originally Posted by Fiorinol

snip

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There was some misunderstanding on either your part or the GM's (maybe in how they interpreted the situation). The portals are public content. Would you also have to respect a hunt linkshell's schedule? They aren't going to take out-of-game communication into account for this when they don't do it for blatant RMT.

They should remove the restrictions on raising and increase the number of runs needed for upgrades.

https://youtu.be/B5q3hMresgQ

Not impressed by how the game handles this kind of content by culling critical AoE telegraphs. Many of us lost over an hour of our time to this.

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Originally Posted by Banim

https://youtu.be/B5q3hMresgQ

Not impressed by how the game handles this kind of content by culling critical AoE telegraphs. Many of us lost over an hour of our time to this.

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wow...

that is absolutely absurd. I haven't witnessed anything like that within BA myself... (yet), but I have seen similar behavior in the FATEs outside. Particularly Providence Warden, but Piasa, Molech, Ceto and Goldemar also from time to time. The biggest offender on PW is during Ice and Wind, sometimes the crystals don't get rendered... and if the crystal don't get rendered, then their AoE indicator also doesn't get rendered... leading to a similar result as in the video. I'm standing on what I think is a safe spot, only to suddenly take dmg and die.

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Originally Posted by Banim

https://youtu.be/B5q3hMresgQ

Not impressed by how the game handles this kind of content by culling critical AoE telegraphs. Many of us lost over an hour of our time to this.

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I think they should stop trying to make things that take more than 24 players. Game can't seem to handle more than that.

Things to change

1. Change BA into 24 man raid instead and lower the difficulty
2. delete support fate

this allow player to want to farm frag can do so while leaving the premade alone

and also allow people to do BA anytime they want rather then murdering and cursing each other in the game

this is not content this is making chaos and toxicity the dev has failed to keep the peace on this one even if its the player fault but it is up to the dev to make sure thing like this does not happen in the first place....

The best way for protection is prevention

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I think they should stop trying to make things that take more than 24 players. Game can't seem to handle more than that.

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the first mistake they have made here is the portal for BA.... it's too toxic that the first thing they need to fix other than that 48 man is fine

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Things to change

1. Change BA into 24 man raid instead and lower the difficulty
2. delete support fate

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Nope. You want boring face roll 24man, go do Orbonne. BA isn't even difficult mechanically, it's only the no raising that forces players to be accountable for their own game play. I'm 100% for more challenging content especially considering Savage has been nerfed to the ground since Heavensward and there's no Ultimate this tier. I would say BA is on par with an average 24man in difficulty.

The support date was a good idea, it just needed an incentive. Having that fate drop fragments is a better idea.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I think they should stop trying to make things that take more than 24 players. Game can't seem to handle more than that.

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I've never ran into that issue with all effects turned on. I don't think its an issue with the game not being to handle it and more to do with the machine running the game or 1 piece of its hardware not making quota.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Nope. You want boring face roll 24man, go do Orbonne. BA isn't even difficult mechanically, it's only the no raising that forces players to be accountable for their own game play.

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BA IS difficult mechanically when you can't see the mechanics due to too many players. FFXIV has had culling issues since ARR. This isn't new. Why they thought they could get away with it in BA is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

BA IS difficult mechanically when you can't see the mechanics due to too many players. FFXIV has had culling issues since ARR. This isn't new. Why they thought they could get away with it in BA is ridiculous.

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I don't even want to count how often i don't see AOE's in Eureka or on S ranks just because there are so many people. Instead of just letting people outside of the party vanish either members of the own party disappears, you don't see AOE markers or you don't even see the freaking Mob that you are supposed to smack down. SE needs to fix that, but they probably never will.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I've never ran into that issue with all effects turned on. I don't think its an issue with the game not being to handle it and more to do with the machine running the game or 1 piece of its hardware not making quota.

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It happens on PS4 and you can't really upgrade the hardware on it