Squadron limit break (Ungarmax) can be used in regular duties by any job

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

If you search for Ungarmax on the forums, you'll find absolutly nothing more than two days old posts.
And on reddit, only one very small post of a twitch clip can be found. And that absolutly doesn't consitute a good bug report. At most, it's a "look at this person cheating". But nothing more.

I have no idea why people say that it was reported 4 months ago. The very first acceptable report was done yesterday. (At least in english, that is.)

If there's someone to blame, it's us, the community, for thinking that stuff get reported and fixed without us having to do anything.

---

Like contacting GM Services ingame and known employees you're in contact with via DM on social media who sent it up the ladder but never got a reply?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raerae

The intent was to verify that reporting it as a bug wouldn't be a goose chase to the GMs handling it.

---

Alright, well, for future reference, you can also report bugs in this forum section in case the in game feature doesn't work for some reason: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...31-Bug-Reports

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Well considering their crafters dont get in trouble for data mining to prep mats and rotations so they have fully melded new gear ahead of everyone else i dont think they would punish world first clears even if they did use it.

---

You even know how datamining works?
- Receipe and
- Hidden node wise?

Asking for a friend :')

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobs

I doubt it.

Someone mentioned the mass Salvage ban in FF11. The game never fully recovered from that. Most all those players never came back. SE must have realized they just took a bite out of the hand that feeds them.

---

Uh...wut. I was there for that and the game definitely flourished well past that time. Not that it even needed to "recover", 500 bans may sound like a lot but even with its small base of 500k subs that's 0.1% of a loss.

I mean fflogs added a check to invalidate any log with ungarmax yesterday early in the day, so any talk about world firsts using it are ramblings of jealous uninformed people lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

While a neat idea, it will boil down to melee buff always because nothing trumps raw damage in this game. That's why unless you can skip a mechanic or it's prog, people rarely touch tank or healer LB.

---

It's not that neat an idea. It's just another buff that'll become baselined into their calculations of how long an encounter should take. Also, I assume the poster meant spell speed, not attack speed, and that is extremely useful for BLM (less so for SMN or RDM for obvious reasons), but not to the point where it would beat out a flat damage increase. If they were to do it, it'd just need to be a flat damage increase for all DPS.

I think a lot of content in the game in dungeons, story mode trials etc., is too easy, and it pisses me off that they take this as the "official" version and relegate the harder version to some flimsy "lul muh embellishments" mode; if anything, the minstrel should exaggerate it in the reverse direction - saying the easy mode only seemed so easy because of how he embellished your abilities.

So, you have a situation whereby people can't run even basic content because the stuff before proper raids/savage content is just a cakewalk and nothing they have implemented seems to help in resolving this, particularly as POTD requires virtually no development of your skills between floors 1 - 100, and above that it's a different type of experience to the regular game, so not directly transferable. It's a tough one, because they don't want to deter new players, but having seen some of them, you do have to wonder if it's a case of a bought account... should all non-savage/extreme content be dumbed down to that level? I'd hope not.

I would like it if the "hard mode" dungeons were a stepping stone between easy-mode and more difficult content, but they're not.

I agree with Kresus that it's kind of laughable having the Echo/blessing of light/whatever in savage/extreme content. Having maxed out gear for it should suffice to clear it if you're at the right level of skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salted

I mean fflogs added a check to invalidate any log with ungarmax yesterday early in the day, so any talk about world firsts using it are ramblings of jealous uninformed people lol

---

Removing said entry from the combat log tracker will not upload it to fflogs and anyone using would be smart enough to just do so I imaginem so there is little merit to this.
However it is my understanding that every combat log is tracked and traceable by SquareEnix StaffMember so any spike in DMG would significally be seen?

I doubt SE will mass perma-ban anyone for this, maybe a 3-day suspension. Perma-ban is excessive without previous warnings. Many were perma banned for Salvage Dupes in FFXI on their first offense and these were decade-long players.

Word on the street is that buffs removing cast time (dualcast? swiftcast?) may actually be bypassing the implementation of stopping Ungarmax being used outside of squadrons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I doubt SE will mass perma-ban anyone for this, maybe a 3-day suspension. Perma-ban is excessive without previous warnings. Many were perma banned for Salvage Dupes in FFXI on their first offense and these were decade-long players.

---

That really depends on how long this has been known and exploited. If claims that people were using this to make gil hand over fist via clearselling are true, should you really just slap a 3 day vacation on them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YuyuZ

Banning players in pvp for using third party software in astragalos is completely understandable but punishing players for using shortcuts in the actual game itself is just wrong. The developers should be addressing this, not the GMs.

---

It's not wrong, and it should be addressed by both the development team and the GM.

Things like this are clearly exploits. Anyone hearing about it knows it's an exploit, and anyone using it knows they're abusing an exploit. Not only do they know they're abusing a loophole in the game system, but it is also clear that the loophole provides a significant in-game advantage (as opposed to benign bugs, such as the Airship texture glitch in FFXI that let you run up onto the railings).

So, SE is fully justified in banning these players. They have intentionally abused an in-game exploit, resulting in a significant advantage relative to other players. That is the textbook definition of cheating. Sure, SE should close the loophole when they can, but cheaters also deserve banhammers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobs

Someone mentioned the mass Salvage ban in FF11. The game never fully recovered from that. Most all those players never came back. SE must have realized they just took a bite out of the hand that feeds them.

---

"Afraid I have some bad news, sir...we only made $6,488,505.00 this month."

"What? That's down from the $6,495,000.00 we made last month!"

"Yes, we believe it's because we banned those 500 players publicly exploiting the game. We should have turned a blind eye and let our inaction do more permanent damage to the company image."

"...Hindsight is 20/20, Johnson. If we want to keep our jobs, we need to bend the rules when enough people break them to make sure a tragedy like this never happens again."


/s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I doubt SE will mass perma-ban anyone for this, maybe a 3-day suspension. Perma-ban is excessive without previous warnings. Many were perma banned for Salvage Dupes in FFXI on their first offense and these were decade-long players.

---

That is exactly what people were saying in FF11 Salvage dupes but S/E respond with retaliation of permanent ban hammer. HMNLS back in FF11 are on purposely hide this exploits from S/E for about 6 months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobs

It does not have as many players as it did, or could have sustain for a longer time. That was my point. Punishing a player for a developers bad coding is not how to do it; most companies have figured that out by now.

---

The game is 16 years old, of course it doesnt have as many players as it did.
FFXI did not suffer becuase of the Salvage banns, as far as I recall, all of us were actually happy about it. Of course some players complained and declared the death of the game for the 393495645th time when it happened. But those were mostly the ones who had exploited the game.

Probably cause mythics take months to make and people were getting 6-8 mythics due to the salvage dupes in no time so yes the bans were justified, the whole excuse "Well its their fault for not patching it that is why I did it.", just makes you look like a fool.

My conclusion from this whole affair is if you want a bug or exploit fixed post in the General Forums & on Reddit instead of the Bug forums where it obviously ends up in a support black hole...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ExKage

Word on the street is that buffs removing cast time (dualcast? swiftcast?) may actually be bypassing the implementation of stopping Ungarmax being used outside of squadrons.

---

It's still coded as a limit break and those were never affected by those buffs.

...not to mention anyone still using that today is basically asking to be banned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I doubt SE will mass perma-ban anyone for this, maybe a 3-day suspension. Perma-ban is excessive without previous warnings. Many were perma banned for Salvage Dupes in FFXI on their first offense and these were decade-long players.

---

Besides permabans are worthless unless you ban the IP, what stops them to just buiyng a new account legally or not?
It is the same problem that blizzard have discussed about on their games, they saw that ppl permabanned from their games just bought new accounts as such the punishment is less problematic that ppl think it really is

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

It's still coded as a limit break and those were never affected by those buffs.

...not to mention anyone still using that today is basically asking to be banned.

---

I can't verify it as it's the hearsay that came my way, "buffs that affect casting can still allow the limit break to go through".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Besides permabans are worthless unless you ban the IP, what stops them to just buiyng a new account legally or not?

---

Well, if they buy it legally, that's all the better - Extra revenue! And you don't need extra justification to ban them again if you find out they're the same person. And if they then buy yet another account...

...

I hope I'm not giving SE any ideas here <.<'

Blizzard did imply that they did anything but buy it legally

After read Yoship's formal response, I think SE is auditing their log right now

After read Yoship's formal response, I think SE is auditing their log right now and preparing a mass ban. This is exactly what they did in Ff11 Salvage dupe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

After read Yoship's formal response, I think SE is auditing their log right now and preparing a mass ban. This is exactly what they did in Ff11 Salvage dupe

---

Honestly, I am torn between the idea of mass banning and the like. I'm more so concerned about the seeming lack of communication (or poor communication) between GMs, forum staff, and the development team.

I wish they'd be this proactive about the bots, tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Besides permabans are worthless unless you ban the IP, what stops them to just buiyng a new account legally or not?

---

As we run low on IPs, ISPs are changing the ones people have more often. Mine doesn't stay the same day to day, typically. An IP ban would mean little unless they started banning entire subnets, which would get innocent people caught up in it.

If banned people wind up buying a new copy of the game and coming back, that's extra revenue at the end of the day. And it'd be a fair bit of work to recover (and you wouldn't get your house back most likely). So it carries a penalty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tridus

If banned people wind up buying a new copy of the game and coming back, that's extra revenue at the end of the day. And it'd be a fair bit of work to recover (and you wouldn't get your house back most likely). So it carries a penalty.

---

Exactly. You can't realistically get rid of someone permanently unless they want to be gone, but you can give them a pretty solid setback by making them spend more money and removing their access to the content they already cleared, be it legitimately or not. On a game like XIV, where people are less likely to make alts (I don't say unlikely, I just say less) because you can do everything on a single character (other than the other two city-states opening questlines), that can sometimes be years of achievements and honestly? If something wiped my main and dropped all of my hard-won mounts, outfits, gear, achievements, minions, etc? I wouldn't start over again.

Its seems they still dint fix the problem, you can still use it, but its tricky now. LUL

#SEThing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I wish they'd be this proactive about the bots, tbh.

---

While I am glad people are actually being banned this time unlike the pomander exploit in PvP, I do wish they would deal with bots in general especially in ranked PvP but SE would rather ban players for bad behaviour rather than exploits/ hacking so here we are.

Plus, I more than approve of mass bannings as long as they're justified, SE probably doesnt want to go the Nexon route and have to apologise for false flags but it's getting really tiring of seeing people cheat, hack and do whatever and get absolutely zero punishment where as calling someone a bad word in the heat of the moment gets a ban. So ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Besides permabans are worthless unless you ban the IP, what stops them to just buiyng a new account legally or not?
It is the same problem that blizzard have discussed about on their games, they saw that ppl permabanned from their games just bought new accounts as such the punishment is less problematic that ppl think it really is

---

And XI never recovered from the Salvage bans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akor

Its seems they still dint fix the problem, you can still use it, but its tricky now. LUL

#SEThing

---

At least anybody using it after the patch should be insta-banned, no questions of whether or not they knew it was wrong. You might be able to argue that before it became a big deal that you didn't 'know' (although, /eyeroll), but now that it's been mentioned in patch notes as something they're not intending to be a feature, and it's been publicly acknowledged as an unintended exploit, going forward with it 'because you can' isn't just playing with fire, it's shoving fire straight into your mouth.

Surely ppl will get banned, but first they need to start banning bots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

At least anybody using it after the patch should be insta-banned, no questions of whether or not they knew it was wrong. You might be able to argue that before it became a big deal that you didn't 'know' (although, /eyeroll), but now that it's been mentioned in patch notes as something they're not intending to be a feature, and it's been publicly acknowledged as an unintended exploit, going forward with it 'because you can' isn't just playing with fire, it's shoving fire straight into your mouth.

---

Basically this. Now that it’s more or less “explicitly illegal”, anyone caught using it (i.e., trying to blatantly circumvent a hotfix) should be punished. Before the hotfix, I would only extend it to people who used it on multiple occasions and frequently in higher-tier content (like Savage or Ultimate). I wouldn’t permaban someone who used it once or twice out of curiosity in a dungeon or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akor

Its seems they still dint fix the problem, you can still use it, but its tricky now. LUL

#SEThing

---

May as well report it, then. Explaining the method so they don't think it's some 3rd party software behind its use, but some mistake made by SE themselves while coding it.

Yeah, it can still be used. I don't know the details other someone in a linkshell stated in confused disbelief that it was still possible but that it requires some shenanigans (though another term was used) through an ability or something. Oh well. This whole affair is going to be interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

And XI never recovered from the Salvage bans.

---

Different game altogether you don't really need much time to get ready with a new account here especially if you buy it, the same went for WoW, D3 and so on

@tridus: Dunno if it's still like that but I remember OW permaban that entirely made impossible to players to register new copies no matter what. I presume it was a IP ban, but I don't know much else about ir so that's I went for that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imagerror

Like contacting GM Services ingame and known employees you're in contact with via DM on social media who sent it up the ladder but never got a reply?

---

Have you done a proper bug report about the Ungarmax issue yourself though? And why wouldn't you use the official forums for that, especially if it's obviously the best place to fill a bug report and see it get accepted or denied.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

That really depends on how long this has been known and exploited. If claims that people were using this to make gil hand over fist via clearselling are true, should you really just slap a 3 day vacation on them?

---

It'd be best to adjust it according to what was gained through its use. Indiscriminately permabanning all who used it, even to frivolous ends with no gain in sight, would be too harsh.

So any idea how fast the next emergency maintenance is coming? Provided someone tells how SE didn't cover all bases instead of keeping it to themselves for an extended time. Again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

It'd be best to adjust it according to what was gained through its use. Indiscriminately permabanning all who used it, even to frivolous ends with no gain in sight, would be too harsh.

---

Nobody said 'indiscriminately permabanning' anyone. We said we think that people who knowingly used it to profit should be banned. People who said 'lol watch this' and used it on unsync'd Garuda? Eh. (Although on the other hand I understand the need to be consistent and 'meaningful content' can vary by definition.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Different game altogether you don't really need much time to get ready with a new account here especially if you buy it, the same went for WoW, D3 and so on

@tridus: Dunno if it's still like that but I remember OW permaban that entirely made impossible to players to register new copies no matter what. I presume it was a IP ban, but I don't know much else about ir so that's I went for that

---

Except people bought accounts in xi quite frequently. I can tell you from being there at that time, I know of people that were banned over salvage duping who did exactly that. I'd go as far as to say most of the people I heard of being permabanned for various reasons throughout the years would show back up.