DRKs just falling behind even more.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

So essentially they are reaffirming what we already knew, they have no idea what to do and are having to look into it before making any concrete changes.
I'm okay with that. Since it means there will be something to look forward to in the future... still, I fail to understand how they didn't catch onto this before now.



I was agreeing with you in my own roundabout manner, apologies if it didn't come across that way.

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But is it coming before 5.0?

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Originally Posted by garret_hawke

But is it coming before 5.0?

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Considering that he made a statement about it in this Liveletter, I don't really think you need to ask that in the first place... Were it coming in 5.0 he'd have likely brushed it aside and said "We're waiting" or "Dark Knight is fine as is, why are you complaining." He instead said that they are trying to bring the jobs in each role in line with one another, which implies these changes will come sooner rather than later.

They did state that they were looking into DRK now, but honestly IMO, that's something they should have done along side WAR, rather than one job at a time. Personally I'm indifferent about this now, I just really want them to fix what's wrong with DRK already, but with their current rack record I hold no optimism or expectations. Least that way I can actually be impressed.

Is there a link for the entire interview?

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Originally Posted by Xan_Kriegor

Is there a link for the entire interview?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...40#post4573040

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...40#post4573040

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Thank you!

So, at least they realized that Warrior is very strong and it is DRK who needs some adjustments.

It is too bad that they still refuse to fix the situation of tank accessories.

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Originally Posted by Xan_Kriegor

Thank you!

So, at least they realized that Warrior is very strong and it is DRK who needs some adjustments.

It is too bad that they still refuse to fix the situation of tank accessories.

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Oh no, they plan to fix them, as they suggested the idea of removing the ability to put DH on them as a possibility.
(Aka they dont even understand what the problem really is, as usual)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Oh no, they plan to fix them, as they suggested the idea of removing the ability to put DH on them as a possibility.

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That is not what was said, you clearly didn't read it thoroughly. They are discussing what to do with the accessories and when they asked players at the event they held yesterday multiple players suggested removing the ability to meld Direct Hit to them. That has nothing to do with the developers; though he did say a suggestion like that would split the community, and has everything to do with what some Japanese players would like to see.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

That is not what was said, you clearly didn't read it thoroughly. They are discussing what to do with the accessories and when they asked players at the event they held yesterday multiple players suggested removing the ability to meld Direct Hit to them. That has nothing to do with the developers; though he did say a suggestion like that would split the community, and has everything to do with what some Japanese players would like to see.

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Given how often they split the community, I'd say it's a sure thing then.

Seems Japanese players are disappointed with how they talked about DRK. Can't say I disagree.

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Originally Posted by harve_xp

昨日のPLLは、とても残念な回答でした。

タンクにジョブ追加しない代わりにバランス調整に徹するという発言も、4.1で調整されなかった上で「検討をしていますので引き続きフィードバックを下さい」としていた発言も、結局はクエリを出してプレイ人口の数値だけで見ていたんですね。
ここまでエンドユーザーと開発との間で問題認識が乖離しているとなると、フィードバックも形骸化しているということなのでしょうね。シャドウウォールなんてヴェンジェと同じリキャに短くできないなら40％軽減にすれば良いだけじゃないですか、それとも個性として弱いのが個性なんでしょうか、笑えませんね。
現在、何が最適な調整なのか検討しているとのことですが、暗黒騎士は去年の7月末からフィードバックしている件も未だにまもとに対応をされていない現状です、半年間検討し続けるのはもはや検討していないのと同じだと思いますし、未だに「検討していますのでフィードバックをしてお待ち下さい」なんて言えるような実装日数だと思っているのでしょうか？#352からずっとフィードバックしているんですよ。

暗黒騎士を使っているユーザーが、プレイフィール改善のために今一番出来ることはフィードバックでは無く、暗黒騎士を使用しないでプレイ人口比率を下げるということ。

とても残念です。

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Quote:

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Google Translate Says: Yesterday 's PLL was a very disappointing answer.

Remarks saying that we do not add jobs to tanks instead of adjusting the balance is not adjusted in 4.1, and the remarks that had been saying "Please keep on giving feedback as we are considering", after all, queries are issued and numerical values ​​of play population You just saw it.
Until now, when problem recognition between the end user and development is divergent, it seems that feedback is also becoming a mere piece. If shadow walls can not be shortened to the same recycles as Venge, it is not only good to mitigate by 40%, or is weak individuality as individuality, can not you laugh?
Currently, we are studying what is the optimal adjustment, but the dark knight is currently in a situation that has not responded to the feedback from the end of July last year, considering for half a year I think that it is the same as not thinking to continue any longer, and still think that it is the number of implementation days that you can say "please give feedback as we are considering it?" I have been giving feedback since # 352.

What users who are using Dark Knight can do the most to improve play feeling is not feedback, but to lower the play population ratio without using dark knights.

It is very disappointing.

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Thread is at 562 posts if you're wondering on the 352 comment

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Given how often they split the community, I'd say it's a sure thing then.

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That they do, however this was not a suggestion he had thought of and was separate from the comments they made about adjusting the accessories. Essentially, he was talking about what attendees at the event wanted, and expressed how he felt a decision like that would negatively split the community.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

-snip-

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I think boycotting the job won't end up solving the problem. The dev team would more than likely see it as "Wow, so many people want to play "Job Y" instead of "Job Z," so "Job Y" must be really strong right now!" without even trying to realize why it's strong, and more importantly (and what's being overlooked) is what makes it stronger.
Hubris is great.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I think boycotting the job won't end up solving the problem. The dev team would more than likely see it as "Wow, so many people want to play "Job Y" instead of "Job Z," so "Job Y" must be really strong right now!" without even trying to realize why it's strong, and more importantly (and what's being overlooked) is what makes it stronger.
Hubris is great.

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More often than not, this is the exsact way they think in every scenario.
I gave up believing they can do anything right.

But I cant force myself to play DRK, when its so darn boring and unfun.
Im refusing to play because I dont want to play. But its easy for me to claim its "for the cause".

The one thing boycotting will cause is that the other tanks are played more and SE will be like "Man, people really seem to enjoy these jobs, what can we do to make their experience even better?" while people hope it will draw attention to the less played job this is not the case. It would be a logical conclusion but this is SE we're talking about. :|
They have been receiving Feedback about DRK for about half a year and have done nothing but give DRK scraps while listening to the concerns about WAR.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

-snip-

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Dude... what? Do you not pay attention to how they balance things at all? They change a job when the amount of people playing it diminishes, why else do you think DRK hasn't been touched? Yoshi P himself is on record saying it's fine because it was in the world first group of ultimate, that's literally the equivalent of "Well people are playing it, so its fine." Meanwhile they have, in the past, buffed BRD, AST and PLD because people weren't playing them in 3.X. They buffed WAR because people were upset about not critting their Fell Cleaves and Yoshida even said that he saw less WARs than he did DRKs.

Their whole mindset is "Well if it's being use by our players, then it must not be thaaaaat bad" and that's how they've always been.
Heck, back in 3.X Astro even became the single most busted healer simply because of how much they buffed it after having had neglected it for an entire patch cycle— So they most certainly do buff things if they aren't be played because its the easy way out.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

-snip-

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I do pay attention. for a long time now.
Look at those numbers: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21...gregate=amount
They have been low throughout the whole deltascape and ultimate coil. DRK were the least played tanks for a while now and the numbers dwindle even more.

World first Ultimate was with a DRK this is true, it's also true that you can do that with any setup because it's always bring the player not the class.
Warriors were and have been highly populated since 4.1, being the next best tank with PLD while DRK falls behind in every aspect.
I mained DRK and know we can do fine, but I also always knew I would bring more to the table in my group if I went WAR instead.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

I do pay attention. for a long time now.
Look at those numbers: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21...gregate=amount
They have been low throughout the whole deltascape and ultimate coil. DRK were the least played tanks for a while now and the numbers dwindle even more.

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I don't mean to belittle your point, but this only seems to be true for Savage. As a whole, Dark Knights are still an active and popular job. https://ffxivcensus.com/

It's still really healthy. Whatever adjustments they bring to it will be done with that in mind. Which is annoying, because their only focus should be on balancing performance without concern of its popularity.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

They buffed WAR because people were upset about not critting their Fell

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Funny how this has nothing to do with "not playing it"...which couldn't be since WAR has been very popular for years.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

I don't mean to belittle your point, but this only seems to be true for Savage. As a whole, Dark Knights are still an active and popular job. https://ffxivcensus.com/

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Problem is, this census says nothing about how tanks are spread in the raiding community, which is the only part where DRK's "flaws" can become a problem.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Problem is, this census says nothing about how tanks are spread in the raiding community, which is the only part where DRK's "flaws" can become a problem.

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I always assumed savage is the raiding community, where we already agree they're falling off pretty hard. All I'm saying is the devs don't use raiding alone as a means of measuring a job's health. Look at how long they let monks and paladins flounder, just because there were a ton of them, even though the raiding monks and pallys were metaphorically gouging out their eyes begging for a scrap from the table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

I don't mean to belittle your point, but this only seems to be true for Savage. As a whole, Dark Knights are still an active and popular job. https://ffxivcensus.com/

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Uhm... there might be an issue with that argument: We have no idea what exactly the census shows there.

It might be that the numbers it states under "active classes" are simply the classes the characters registered as "active" have unlocked with no regards to level and activity. I mean, the DoH are as popular as the DoW/DoM in those stats, but can you truthfully say you know as many endgame crafters as endgame DoW/DoM players?

I don't think it's a good source unless we know the details of how that data was gathered. And it would be a fairly devastating statement about the devs if they used only the unlock data for their adjustments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Uhm... there might be an issue with that argument: We have no idea what exactly the census shows there.

It might be that the numbers it states under "active classes" are simply the classes the characters registered as "active" have unlocked with no regards to level and activity. I mean, the DoH are as popular as the DoW/DoM in those stats, but can you truthfully say you know as many endgame crafters as endgame DoW/DoM players?

I don't think it's a good source unless we know the details of how that data was gathered. And it would be a fairly devastating statement about the devs if they used only the unlock data for their adjustments.

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Fair point!

When Tanks leave new players picking up Tanks jump in. So activity teeter totters. And people who were here with HW know how much DRK has changed compared to new players picking up the job. Who know nothing and think DRK has always been this way so...

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

When Tanks leave new players picking up Tanks jump in. So activity teeter totters. And people who were here with HW know how much DRK has changed compared to new players picking up the job. Who know nothing and think DRK has always been this way so...

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I would also add to it people that have only really leveled and played DRK and not the other tanks as well. It's much easier to think DRK is fine when you lack the perspective of how it performs and feels to play compared to WAR and PLD in the same content. I know when I am grinding out raid drops or tomes I will often switch between tanks to change it up and it is almost jarringly apparent how janky DRK feels to play compared to the other two.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I think boycotting the job won't end up solving the problem. The dev team would more than likely see it as "Wow, so many people want to play "Job Y" instead of "Job Z," so "Job Y" must be really strong right now!" without even trying to realize why it's strong, and more importantly (and what's being overlooked) is what makes it stronger.
Hubris is great.

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If you read the statement as a whole, they are expressing the same idea we are. They are adding how the community has been "giving feedback" since SB launched only to see paltry changes to the job when we all know it needs much more than its gotten, which felt to some of them as insult to injury when they said "Please keep giving feedback and we'll think about it".

While the quitting DRK and play WAR/PLD will be seen as a success to SE; that post goes to show that disappointment is across the board and the waiting game is taking its toll on some. I don't disagree with how they feel, but I personally am still playing DRK, I'm just avoiding to MT any important content.