4.1 - The emptiest patch yet.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

There has been a continual downgrade in content since 2.0 and even 3.0 so when 5.0 comes out and they release even less content your going to be okay with it?

Your going to white knight SE no matter what I post so not going to waste my time anymore.

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3.x as a series is definitely less than 2.x, there's no denying that.

2.x is a lot easier to add things, add maps when there were no maps, add hunts when there were no hunts, add beast tribe quests to tons of tribes that already existed in the base game.

expansions are going to be tougher. people want to build on top of everything in the previous expansions and add new stuff at the same time.

that's why the only apples to apples comparison to 4.1 was 3.1 and you still fail to do it. that instinctively not being your first comparison already says a lot.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah, I think a lot of their focus went into squadrons and a metric crap ton of QoL changes. And the dungeon/raid of course. Housing and the remodeling to certain areas of what we already have no doubt took some time as well, But with all the other things they're adding, it really does add up to be about on par with where we were an expansion ago. Just not things that EVERYONE cares about. 4.15 should add a couple more small things (like the PvP mode I believe), but its a shame Eureka's being pushed back. I'd prefer they do it right though than release it half baked like they did with Diadem.

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Wasn't Diadem 2.0 also delayed and that did so well..

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Wasn't Diadem 2.0 also delayed and that did so well..

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(I was trying to be optimistic)

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Originally Posted by hydralus

It's not 'nothing', but it does seem like less and less is being done. I'd be totally fine with them taking off yet another dungeon in development if I saw the resources going elsewhere.

Perhaps it really is that squadron AI that took the brunt of the effort. Which... probably isn't going to be all that useful, for now.

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if the only thing that's missing is 1 expert dungeon

what 4.1 has that's new are
- Squadron AI
- Uznair expansion
- Ultimate Savage fight

those are 3 brand new things for players of varying difficulty level.

Probably the biggest void that makes the patch feel somewhat lacking is the delay of Eureka. And people were expecting to see more from other features when a 2nd regular dungeon was sacrificed for it. It doesn't help that on the live letter they didn't do live demonstrations of 2 big pieces of content, Return to Ivalice (for not wanting to "show too much") and the new pvp mode (for lack of a proper environment). In both cases it was weird, if they didn't want to ruin surprises in Return to Ivalice then why go live to the entrance and stay there teasing us? And on Rival Wings, if they can't make a proper live demonstration then why not come with some pre-recorded demo to get a better idea of how it plays?

But even then all that content is still coming, it's just that today they didn't have as much to show as we may have expected for one reason or another. So to quote Yoshi (even though he said this originally at a terrible moment), "we need to calm down".

To make a fair comparison of the ammount of content we're getting here are the trailers for 3.1 and 4.1. There are some paralels, but it's not that simple to compare on where they're different. Eureka seems to be the biggest thing missing. I really hope the extra time they're taking on it serves to make an enjoyable experience and that it's not Diadem 4.0 (but I'm not getting my hopes high after they took down the original Diadem for a long time only to slap some fates on it).

3.1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkRTO7co_Yc

4.1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWBYwa-7IvY

Yea they are going to have to hustle up because there are some great changes coming and things but I doubt this patch content will even last the whole month of october before ppl only log in for expert dailies and savage weeklies......there is no gear gates or anything so those great raids teams will have cleared ultimate pretty quick...24 man will be a wipe rest the first day or two and then turn into something you have to force yourself to do....

People couldn't even clear shinryu normal so I imagine ex will join the ranks of "steps or faith" and "final steps of faith" meaning people suck terribly at simple mechanics...Sooo overall 4.1 won't last long at all lol

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Originally Posted by technole

It's a good patch, it's not my fault you don't do high-end content. You really think us raiders are okay with just weekly clears of O1S-O4S savage for 6 months? Get real.

We get more content, Shinryu Extreme and Coil Ultimate. More content to last.

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You really think two fights are going to keep people engaged for months?

Shinryu will be mid-core content, and Unending is just for bragging rights as far as I recall. If it is truly as hard as it purports to be, statics will fall apart trying to clear it since the incentive is minimal.

Edit: I didn't realize Unending dropped a 345 weapon, so there is some incentive. My mistake.

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Originally Posted by lulunami

To be fair, there was very little to do in 2.0 patch at start of ARR. There were only Praetorium speed runs for Philo tomes and Amdapoor Keep was the only weekly cap tomestone giving dungeon. Or you could keep doing Titan HM to help out in PUGs. There were multiple bugs with Twintania raid boss as well necessitating Raid being shutdown for several weeks. Those were dark times before patch 2.1.

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2.0 was a brand new game though and I dont really remember being bored before 2.1 the entire game was new at that time.

We are now in the 2nd expansion now and they tell us that they are making all this money and have an increased budget for SB but the content is slowly become less and less and cant even deliver on their promises when its less content then before.

With no relic I cant see myself subbing past November at this point until 4.2 and I dont think I am alone, most people wont bother to complain they will just let their sub fall and potentially never return.

When 5.0 is announced to have even less content because the budget was reduced due to lower profit how many people are going to stick around?

I am seriously concerned for the long term viability of the game for the first time, we dont have WoW numbers to take a huge subscriber hit.

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Originally Posted by missybee

You really think two fights are going to keep people engaged for months?

Shinryu will be mid-core content, and Unending is just for bragging rights as far as I recall. If it is truly as hard as it purports to be, statics will fall apart trying to clear it since the incentive is minimal.

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yeah because suddenly everyone has cleared v4 and savage doesn't exist, please.

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Originally Posted by missybee

You really think two fights are going to keep people engaged for months?

Shinryu will be mid-core content, and Unending is just for bragging rights as far as I recall. If it is truly as hard as it purports to be, statics will fall apart trying to clear it since the incentive is minimal.

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Plenty of raiders still clear Neo for parses or to run on alt jobs. Shinryu will be kept alive by the mount farm.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

if the only thing that's missing is 1 expert dungeon

what 4.1 has that's new are
- Squadron AI
- Uznair expansion
- Ultimate Savage fight

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Okay, at the risk of being wrong when the patch comes out, that doesn't seem like 'new' stuff. Ultimate savage is, what, a single arena? Which uses assets already in the game, no less? Squadrons do 5 dungeons which people have already done by the time they even get a squadron and something most of us groan about if we get them again for a leveling daily. Uznair expansion, as I recall, is simply a chance of unlocking more rooms which is a fairly minimal boost.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for it since I love my treasure hunting, but it doesn't strike me as something 'new'. Not that I require something to be new to be enjoyable, but if I'm looking at where development resources are being applied in comparison to previous patches, I just don't see what we're really getting for 1 less dungeon. Because it's not '1 expert dungeon = squad AI/Uznair expansion/Ultimate savage' it's '1 expert dungeon + entire diadem + Lord of Vermillion = squad ai/Uznair expansion/Ultimate savage' which makes it seem like a lot of the time was spent on the squad AI.

All I can really hope for is that the squads end up becoming something worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

yeah because suddenly everyone has cleared v4 and savage doesn't exist, please.

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Wow, I didn't realize what I said was so offensive.

At this point, most mid-core statics should be pretty close to clearing Neo Eggs-D, so it exists - but barely? We'll soon be in that phase where most statics clear the entirety of Deltascape Savage on reset day and then sort of unenthusiastically do the 24-man to help gear up other jobs.

So statics will get together to likely beat Shinryu after spending a few hours familiarizing themselves with the fight, and then a fair few will forego Unending Coil altogether?

I wasn't trying to be hyperbolic. The person I responded to was insinuating that this patch has a lot to offer for raiders, and I simply disagree.

I wouldn't call it empty. That said, the devs' refusal to create content with a high degree of replayability and long term incentive structures will only hurt the game long term with regard to retaining subs. If they are fine with people unsubbing and coming back for the next expansion that is their prerogative I suppose.

I stand by my opinion the gear system in this game needs a drastic overhaul.

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Originally Posted by missybee

You really think two fights are going to keep people engaged for months?

Shinryu will be mid-core content, and Unending is just for bragging rights as far as I recall. If it is truly as hard as it purports to be, statics will fall apart trying to clear it since the incentive is minimal.

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Savage still exists for those still cracking on O3S/O4S and to get into Ultimate.

Weekly savage clears still will happen for more free gear, we do doggie farms on another raid day since we clear all of savage in two hours every week. Who knows how long progression will last in Ultimate, but it's certainly fresh content every 3 months instead of 6. So yes, it will last and a third doggie once progression is over.

Will there be new crafts and gatherables? I looked through the notes and just saw some stuff about Zoey. Was fun gathering and making hq stuff like over a year ago when it wasn't hello kitty land.

@OPs question - battlefield 1 and maybe TW:2

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Originally Posted by Ziggyzapps

Will there be new crafts and gatherables? I looked through the notes and just saw some stuff about Zoey. Was fun gathering and making hq stuff like over a year ago when it wasn't hello kitty land.

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I'd imagine there will be, there always is.

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Originally Posted by technole

Alexander Creator Savage clear (A12S) rates in last column, this was in March before Echo. It's based on the polling all lodestones for the mount since cheeves can be hidden. It's a good estimate, but of course since only one mount drops a week for raid during lockout, there is obviously groups that don't have all 8/8.

It is also a good representation oh how disparate NA/EU vs JP is when it comes to high-end raiding.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckybanc...9/497c8f0c.jpg

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Now this is good, at least somebody did their research and not spouting numbers.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Okay, at the risk of being wrong when the patch comes out, that doesn't seem like 'new' stuff.

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new stuff is not just graphical assets. that's easy compared to the mechanics of Ultimate Savage, Squad AI and perhaps new mobs in Uznair (if all these mobs are 100% rehash, that would indeed be disappointing).

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Because it's not '1 expert dungeon = squad AI/Uznair expansion/Ultimate savage' it's '1 expert dungeon + entire diadem + Lord of Vermillion = squad ai/Uznair expansion/Ultimate savage' which makes it seem like a lot of the time was spent on the squad AI.

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it's a little disingenuous to lump Diadem + LoV in there and ignore Eureka and the new music playing thing. those aren't ready yet but work has been put into them. and don't forget while those 2 pieces are delayed 4.1 is a month earlier than 3.1.

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Originally Posted by missybee

I wasn't trying to be hyperbolic. The person I responded to was insinuating that this patch has a lot to offer for raiders, and I simply disagree.

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it's not a lot but it's more than any odd number patch since Savage Second Coil, when this entire topic is about less less less.

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Originally Posted by eaudaemon

Now this is good, at least somebody did their research and not spouting numbers.

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Except that was taken 6 months after 3.4

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckybanc...b/2b12f947.png

This one is 3.45 and is a more realistic look at the ones who will be able to beat Ultimate

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's not a lot but it's more since any odd number patch after Savage Second Coil, when this entire topic is about less less less.

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Yeah, I suppose I can't really argue with that. The odd patches did always tend to be the "casual / catch up" patches...

I guess I just get distracted very easily. I sort of balk at the idea of doggo farming being what carries us to 4.2, and I don't care about my FFlogs since I'm trash.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Except that was taken 6 months after 3.4

This one is 3.45 and is a more realistic look at the ones who will be able to beat Ultimate

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Actually, I'd consider anyone who could clear A12S before echo to be in the running. A lot of mechanical checks were way easier with 240 gear and echo.

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Originally Posted by missybee

Wow, I didn't realize what I said was so offensive.

At this point, most mid-core statics should be pretty close to clearing Neo Eggs-D, so it exists - but barely? We'll soon be in that phase where most statics clear the entirety of Deltascape Savage on reset day and then sort of unenthusiastically do the 24-man to help gear up other jobs.

So statics will get together to likely beat Shinryu after spending a few hours familiarizing themselves with the fight, and then a fair few will forego Unending Coil altogether?

I wasn't trying to be hyperbolic. The person I responded to was insinuating that this patch has a lot to offer for raiders, and I simply disagree.

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what are you talking about offensive? nice try.

at this point there are still thousands of people (idk what mid-core is) who are not even close to beat V3 let alone V4 that you need a solid static to clear and farm, not only that there even more people still farming the gears an weapons not only that there will be pleeenty of people doing v4 only for the mount and there will be lots of people tryong to clea v4 only to get access to ultimate. on top of that ultimate will have it's own weapon that people will probably farm and shinryu is going to be like thordan so pleas get your overxagerating statements out of the forums you seriusly have absolutely no knowledge how the end-gam emvironment works with our community if anything this patch added more longetivity than any other patch since the hard-core community who has farmed and beaten savage will come back for ultimate something that has never done in the previous odd patch cicles as they just leave and come back for the new raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Except that was taken 6 months after 3.4

This one is 3.45 and is a more realistic look at the ones who will be able to beat Ultimate

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Hardly, for one this is different content than Ultimate, plus your not considering population size since we had more players since 2016 and your assuming that people are not going to finish it, let alone try.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's a little disingenuous to lump Diadem + LoV in there and ignore Eureka and the new music playing thing. those aren't ready yet but work has been put into them. and don't forget while those 2 pieces are delayed 4.1 is a month earlier than 3.1.

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That's a fair point. Don't know how long Eureka is going to take to release, though.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It's a bad argument. If someone dislikes something, it isn't content for them. That's the equivalent of saying "Go play Lord of Verminion if you're bored!" Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the OP's overall opinion regarding 4.1 but that doesn't mean they can't complain about a lack of content that appeals to them.

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Not really. There is a difference between saying there is no content as opposed to saying there isn't any content I like. How their discontent is framed makes a big difference on how it will be received. I guarantee the first will be blown off by SE as well as many players. The second with the addition of saying what type of content they want to see actually has a chance to change what comes out in the future.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

what are you talking about offensive? nice try.

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It might be because your responses seem unnecessarily spicy?

I am glad you are so acutely aware of how end-game works - to the extent that you can insist that others do not.

Also, proof-reading is a thing.

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Originally Posted by Doki

Hope I manage to land a medium house in Savage 4.1 login.

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The truest end-game.

I like how half the stuff in the 4.1 preview isn't even coming until 4.15... looks like there won't even be 330 to 340 upgrade items from hunt logs in 4.1 at this rate. If so there ain't gonna be a lot to do but farm crafting scripts...which also don't appear to have new gear coming yet? Hope I manage to land a medium house in Savage 4.1 login.

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Originally Posted by technole

Actually, I'd consider anyone who could clear A12S before echo to be in the running. A lot of mechanical checks were way easier with 240 gear and echo.

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But if the fight is even as hard as A8S then most of these people are not going to be able to get close to clearing

A8S clear rate at 3.3 was still at like 1%

To put it bluntly...I would be unsubscribed right now if I didn't pay for two months.
This is a ridiculously lackluster patch, and I'm not going to sit here and pretend I enjoy playing 4 month old dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Wasn't Diadem 2.0 also delayed and that did so well..

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To be fair, the first iteration of Diadem was actually great. It wasn't until they changed it so it wasn't worth working together to get tons of kills that Diadem started to go out the window and into the dumpster. Even the new Diadem is pretty MEH outside of gathering. The new gathering Diadem is 10/10, too bad hardly anyone uses it still, if anyone.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

That's a fair point. Don't know how long Eureka is going to take to release, though.

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they said 4.2 so we'll have to see if that comes out later than when 3.2 did in comparison.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

To be fair, the first iteration of Diadem was actually great. It wasn't until they changed it so it wasn't worth working together to get tons of kills that Diadem started to go out the window and into the dumpster. Even the new Diadem is pretty MEH outside of gathering. The new gathering Diadem is 10/10, too bad hardly anyone uses it still, if anyone.

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I dont remember anyone calling 1.0 Diadem great, I mean people did it but everyone I know hated every minute of it after a week or two.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

No.

Just because that game sucks more than a Dyson does not mean that this game can get away with giving us an empty patch and calling it a succ as.

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I really don't get it – if this game sucks so much, why are you still playing it and wasting money on it?
I understand criticism for someone who still enjoys at least parts of the game, but here it just seems the game no longer appeals to you, so wanting it to change your way really seems pointless.

Edit: "that game" was most likely referring WoW as I was explained, so your answer makes more sense to me now. :x

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

I dont remember anyone calling 1.0 Diadem great, I mean people did it but everyone I know hated every minute of it after a week or two.

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It was fun for like, a week. Then I hated it and everyone in my FC began to hate it, too. Didn't help that we were punished for not having a full group either.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

To be fair, the first iteration of Diadem was actually great. It wasn't until they changed it so it wasn't worth working together to get tons of kills that Diadem started to go out the window and into the dumpster. Even the new Diadem is pretty MEH outside of gathering. The new gathering Diadem is 10/10, too bad hardly anyone uses it still, if anyone.

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My only problem with the Diadem is I am not really sure what its purpose is. Most of the gear was fairly low level compared to dungeons or raids and after getting the minions/mount I don't see a driving need to return. To me it doesn't seem to fit within the FF narrative and provides little that cannot be completed by other means withing the story line.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

I dont remember anyone calling 1.0 Diadem great, I mean people did it but everyone I know hated every minute of it after a week or two.

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Sit in one spot, mass pull and kill en masse. Beats running dungeons and having to deal with poor [read: bad] players. The poor players died to bronto-meaty-meteors. It was a great way to sit and kill things and, honestly, relax while still getting [gear] progression.

The only ones I personally ran into that hated it ran the place nearly 24/7, almost completely burning themselves out on the game itself. 'Cause people dunno what pacing is.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

My only problem with the Diadem is I am not really sure what its purpose is. Most of the gear was fairly low level compared to dungeons or raids and after getting the minions/mount I don't see a driving need to return. To me it doesn't seem to fit within the FF narrative and provides little that cannot be completed by other means withing the story line.

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Hence why I said first iteration. The gear was the same level as raid gear with RNG stats (because it was pink). Some of it was BiS because of this, and thusly, pissed off quite a lot of people for spitting on their hard work in Gordias, which was no joke at the time. I mean, due to the RNG nature, you could argue that getting actual stats to get BiS over Gordias might negate it, but the possibility of it made quite a lot of people mad (and was repeated with that weapon in the second iteration). So, you're not entirely wrong; it all depended on how lucky you got. In the first iteration, with everyone working together, you had a high rate of getting i210 pieces, even if it meant RNG stats for RNG job. I think people forgot Diadem was actually changed thrice, not twice.

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Originally Posted by Ereb

I really don't get it – if this game sucks so much, why are you still playing it and wasting money on it?
I understand criticism for someone who still enjoys at least parts of the game, but here it just seems the game no longer appeals to you, so wanting it to change your way really seems pointless.

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I think that person was actually saying that WoW sucks. The comparison was WoW's patches may be a little bit bigger, but so infrequent that the comparisons being made to FFXIV's patches is unfair.


I've never even been to Diadem... So I have little say in that oher than I should try it to get those minions. Thematically, I think the plan was to make sort of side zones that existed outside MSQ but were full of group content while less painful than dungeons. It obviously didn't hit too well.

So from what i managed to gather the new patch will bring :
1)New MSQ
2)A new Dungeon Skalla(Here is something i dont like.I wished they add 2 more dungeons)
3)A new 24 man raid
4)New Trial(As Zhamkyong pointed out is not an extreme version of a trial we have but of a new one)
5)Beast Tribe Quests
6)New PvP mode
7) Hildibrand
8)ShirogaNe
-Thanks for the next to Zhamkyong-
9)adjustemt to classes/jobs.
On top of that they will add many and much needed QOL changes and remake-rework old content and ideas(Squadron dungeons-Uznair) ! :)

From what i see this content is fantastic.If it is quality content its not yet avaliable to decided but its sure good in quantity.Saying that this content is like 100% more than Warcraft patches doesnt justify making lazy content updates tho !
For me if this patch is good or not it will be decided when i play it.If the quality of the content is fantastic then ill be extremely happy.For example if the quality and lenght of MSQ is good then ill be happy!

I want to apologise if i forgot something-Major Update-.
Please let me know and i will edit my post.
Thank you !

Edit:On my post i say that i wanted 2 new dungeons each patch.But if they change their normal dungeon motive of 3 bosses and bring lets say a dungeon like BlackRock Depths in size why not ?Or if they add for example 4 bosses in a new dungeon ? Add Optional Bosses ? Have more than one way to uproach the boss and on sidehalls to have mini bosses !Those are just some ideas .

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

So from what i managed to gather the new patch will bring :

1)New MSQ
2)A new Dungeon Skalla(Here is something i dont like.I wished they add 2 more dungeons)
3)A new 24 man raid
4)New Trial
5)Beast Tribe Quests
6)New PvP mode
7) Hildibrand
8)Shirogane
On top of that they will add many and much needed QOL changes and remake-rework old content and ideas(Squadron dungeons-Uznair) ! :)

From what i see this content is fantastic.If it is quality content its not yet avaliable to decided but its sure good in quantity.Saying that this content is like 100% more than Warcraft patches doesnt justify making lazy content updates tho !
For me if this patch is good or not it will be decided when i play it.If the quality of the content is fantastic then ill be extremely happy.For example if the quality and lenght of MSQ is good then ill be happy!

I want to apologise if i forgot something-Major Update-.
Please let me know and i will edit my post.
Thank you !

Edit:On my post i say that i wanted 2 new dungeons each patch.But if they change their normal dungeon motive of 3 bosses and bring lets say a dungeon like BlackRock Depths in size why not ?Or if they add for example 4 bosses in a new dungeon ? Add Optional Bosses ? Have more than one way to uproach the boss and on sidehalls to have mini bosses !Those are just some ideas .

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Add to that adjustment to classes/jobs, things for the crafters/gatherers if i am not mistaken...?

Also, the new trial is not a rework of the normal one with mechanic variations on the same arena. (Did seriously no one saw the characters runing on top of the boss while evading lazers?)

But hey, we got an empty patch, or so they say.

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

Add to that adjustemt to classes/jobs.

Also, the new trial is not a rework of the normal one with mechanic variations on the same arena. (Did seriously no one saw the characters runing on top of the boss while evading lazers?)

But hey, we got an empty patch, or so they say.

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I updated my post.
Thank you