Goodbye to the lots of you come thursday

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

...that is one of th most backwards things ive seen in a while. Support them when they have a good game to play, not the beta of it.

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I believe that they are going to make a good game, and they are improving it as we can see, some of us dont like the changes and some do, and if they need our money to keep going on making what they are doing now, then I'll pay.

after all its my money and 10$ wont kill me

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

*checks Ragequit's status*

Funny thing.. Most ppl who complain about lack of content haven't adequately explored what is currently in the game. :rolleyes:

Tip: If you only have ONE lvl 50 job, you still have lots to do.

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Tip: Leveling is not what most consider content.

On this whole active player thing, I said the game is probably closer to 20,000 active players right now and with billing, it might drop to 10-15,000. I don't see how this is unrealistic. I guess I'll be generous and say the game has 30,000 active and might dwindle down to 20,000 then. It's still not a whole lot better which ever way you look at it. Defend it all you want, server mergers = a game not doing so well.

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Originally Posted by Monty

Tip: Leveling is not what most consider content.

On this whole active player thing, I said the game is probably closer to 20,000 active players right now and with billing, it might drop to 10-15,000. I don't see how this is unrealistic. I guess I'll be generous and say the game has 30,000 active and might dwindle down to 20,000 then. It's still not a whole lot better which ever way you look at it. Defend it all you want, server mergers = a game not doing so well.

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In the end, XIV = A game being overhauled for a relaunch as well as first launch on a new platform.

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Originally Posted by Toffy

Wonder how many people will be willing to actually pay just to keep their forum account active.

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Think most people already know who will, certain sigs give it away.

I had always said I would stick it out till 2.0 and had been starting to doubt if I would recently, but the last patch has really made me decide I most certainly will :)

This link alone below makes me want to leave.

Square Enix dosen't care about the player.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

This link alone below makes me want to leave.

Square Enix dosen't care about the player.

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do you even know what you were linking?

that was a class action against SE based on the fact people didnt want to read the TOS agreement so they just clicked that they read it, and when something happened they didnt like they threw a fit about it

EVERY GAME AND GAME COMPANY DOES THIS and they pretty much all feel the same way

and it is legal

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

This link alone below makes me want to leave.

Square Enix dosen't care about the player.

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They had a lawsuit against them?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

do you even know what you were linking?

that was a class action against SE based on the fact people didnt want to read the TOS agreement so they just clicked that they read it, and when something happened they didnt like they threw a fit about it

EVERY GAME AND GAME COMPANY DOES THIS and they pretty much all feel the same way

and it is legal

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Oh I am well aware of what I linked, and I am well aware every company has this greedy policy. If you make one mistake your character is gone. The problem is what SE eventually deems the mistake.

Unfortunately, all lawsuits are retarded. Americans just need to relax on those, of course SE is not going to care, why would they? "Oh, were sorry, you can't read, here's a million dollars!"

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Oh I am well aware of what I linked, and I am well aware every company has this greedy policy. If you make one mistake your character is gone. The problem is what SE eventually deems the mistake.

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and SE has every right to deem what the mistake is and if its against the TOS they have every righgt to ban/delete ALL your character info

you dont own anything in this game, they do, its their game, you are paying for the right to play it


the reason other games havent had this happen to them yet is because most lawyers were sitting waiting on the decision of this specific case to see what the ruling would be because it pretty much would dictate how all future suits would work(and trust me, if this actualy went through, every damn mmo out there would be sued)

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

They had a lawsuit against them?

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I assume it was players who were banned for duplication of salvage items in Final Fantasy XI that brought the lawsuit, but I don't know. I can tell you this as someone who did this quite clearly exploitive thing. Square Enix banned players that did absolutely nothing, while people with 3-5 full sets of gear were not even left with a warning they continue to play today.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

and SE has every right to deem what the mistake is and if its against the TOS they have every righgt to ban/delete ALL your character info

you dont own anything in this game, they do, its their game, you are paying for the right to play it


the reason other games havent had this happen to them yet is because most lawyers were sitting waiting on the decision of this specific case to see what the ruling would be because it pretty much would dictate how all future suits would work(and trust me, if this actualy went through, every damn mmo out there would be sued)

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Absolutely, they do have every right to do so, and thank you for telling me nothing I don't already know. I would however like to make light of the fact that Square Enix Special Task force is quite bad at what they do.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

I assume it was players who were banned for duplication of salvage items in Final Fantasy XI that brought the lawsuit, but I don't know. I can tell you this as someone who did this quite clearly exploitive thing. Square Enix banned players that did absolutely nothing, while people with 3-5 full sets of gear were not even left off with a warning, and i'm talking people that played for 5+ years.

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it wasnt, the lawsuit is a decade old, its actualy originaly based on how they used to archive their character info so that if you resuscribded after being gone for like half a year you had to go through a hassle of getting your character info back if it even still existed at all
it branchedd out from there into a ton of other stuff such as how players didnt feel they should have been banned and so on


it came down to an entire speal about how people felt that they should not be responsible for whats in the terms of service, that it is not their responsibility even if they accept them because they did not read them

Think about the Cent-I-Pad episode of south park, and its basicaly that


on a similar note, if this lawsuit had been succesful, every MMO on the market would be forced to shut down because they would all be sued succesfuly for every little thing and no longer be able to operate because of it

i may stick around just to se the changes that go though. i dont personally see many changes actually and i still dont like it but im willing to give ti a chance

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

it wasnt, the lawsuit is a decade old, its actualy originaly based on how they used to archive their character info so that if you resuscribded after being gone for like half a year you had to go through a hassle of getting your character info back if it even still existed at all
it branchedd out from there into a ton of other stuff such as how players didnt feel they should have been banned and so on


it came down to an entire speal about how people felt that they should not be responsible for whats in the terms of service, that it is not their responsibility even if they accept them because they did not read them

Think about the Cent-I-Pad episode of south park, and its basicaly that


on a similar note, if this lawsuit had been succesful, every MMO on the market would be forced to shut down because they would all be sued succesfuly for every little thing and no longer be able to operate because of it

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Uh, you're wrong, this lawsuit was brought in June of 2009.
Gamasutra

And again, I am well aware of the TOS, but there are evolving laws in other countries that are giving players more rights to the characters they play.

I'll give you the ultimatum they probably received from the higher ups: "Start charging for this game, or we're shutting it down, we're tired of sinking millions into a game that isn't generating revenue".

How would them just shutting the servers down and scrapping it make you feel? you wouldn't be playing either way. At least this way something might come out of it in the end.

Try being realistic for a change. Companies don't run on the kindness of their hearts. It's all about money, and if they deem something isn't worth the cost, then they cut it out.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Uh, you're wrong, this lawsuit was brought in June of 2009.
Gamasutra

And again, I am well aware of the TOS, but there are evolving laws in other countries that are giving players more rights to the characters they play.

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ok so this is a different one then im thinking of

and food for thought, ever wonder why several companeis online dont offer service to certain countries? its cuz of dumb laws which state that "your terms of service arent legal in our country and we dont have to follow them"

i hate to say it, but this is the equivilent of a german going to japan and saying F U japan i can do what i want and i dont have to follow your rules, and you cant do anything about it

the world doesnt work like that

and people throwing fits over not wanting to be responsible for their own actions is getting retarded

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Uh, you're wrong, this lawsuit was brought in June of 2009.
Gamasutra

And again, I am well aware of the TOS, but there are evolving laws in other countries that are giving players more rights to the characters they play.

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The fact that it was dismissed with prejudice (which means it's impossible to be retried) means the plaintiffs were completely without any legal merit whatsoever.

aka: it's a frivolous lawsuit.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Uh, you're wrong, this lawsuit was brought in June of 2009.
Gamasutra

And again, I am well aware of the TOS, but there are evolving laws in other countries that are giving players more rights to the characters they play.

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ok so i just read the case

it is exactly the case i was talking about, i guess it didnt hit the court until 2009, it was actualy started well before then



were those bad business practices: some of them were yes(and please note several of the policies were changed after this case was starting to be formed 5 or so years before it went to court because it was admited that the practice wasnt good)
was everything listed in that suit justified: no it wasnt, alot of those people bitched that they had to pay for a game at all with monthly fees, these people didnt understand what an mmo was at all

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

The fact that it was dismissed with prejudice (which means it's impossible to be retried) means the plaintiffs were completely without any legal merit whatsoever.

aka: it's a frivolous lawsuit.

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No no no, I agree completely, you see if it was Salvage duplication like the timeline fits, the player was in clear violation of the TOS, but that dosen't mean I don't think players who mistakenly might fall into something SE deems illegal shouldn't have some way to say they are innocent... is the point I am trying to make.

See all the fun stuff I missed out on!

I had a different (shorter) adventure... which is not fabulous enough or SE-sanctioned enough to be relayed here, har har!

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

No no no, I agree completely, you see if it was Salvage duplication like the timeline fits, the player was in clear violation of the TOS, but that dosen't mean I don't think players who mistakenly might fall into something SE deems illegal shouldn't have some way to say they are innocent... is the point I am trying to make.

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the problem is, you agree in the TOS of every mmo out there that the company is allowed to remove you from their game for any reason they deem fit. and that you do not have the right to protest it.
they do allow you to try and get it back of course, but thats still up to them and no matter what they decide you have no legal recourse because you did in fact agree to such terms when you sign up for the game(and every time the game is patched it pretty much makes you agree to it again in most cases)

99% of the time, when someone gets unjustly banned its not hard to call customer service to try and get it undone. problem is you get these idiots who call their lawyers first thinking they may have found a payday(such as with this lawsuit) instead of going through proper channels first.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the problem is, you agree in the TOS of every mmo out there that the company is allowed to remove you from their game for any reason they deem fit. and that you do not have the right to protest it.
they do allow you to try and get it back of course, but thats still up to them and no matter what they decide you have no legal recourse because you did in fact agree to such terms when you sign up for the game(and every time the game is patched it pretty much makes you agree to it again in most cases)

99% of the time, when someone gets unjustly banned its not hard to call customer service to try and get it undone. problem is you get these idiots who call their lawyers first thinking they may have found a payday(such as with this lawsuit) instead of going through proper channels first.

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It is my experience that you get different answers from different levels of SE reps. A GM told me from another account I was banned for 3 days. A Customer service rep told a friend they would be banned permanently, (for the same warning as I got) yet she's still playing. Square Enix has no consistancy in how they investigate and especially how they deem who is banned and who isn't.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

It is my experience that you get different answers from different levels of SE reps. A GM told me from another account I was banned for 3 days. A Customer service rep told a friend they would be banned permanently, yet shes still playing.

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yeah, sometimes the different branches see different info based on what access they have to your accounts, in these cases the people in charge(their supervisors) are the ones who have full access to info.

it doesnt make alot of sense, but ive noticed this trend with every game ive been on, which has been quite a few

the whole savlage debacle sounds very similar to blizzards rmt policy, which is to ban every account that has over a certain ammount of gold on it on a monthly basis regardless of proof of rmt activity(usualy you get unbanned when you make some calls to get it done)

i had a friend, who was a 100% legit player, who had 7 toons with capped gold over there...and he got hit by this every single month lol

A healthy nonargumental debate on these forums, I am quite proud of those engaged in it. Thank You all^^

Oh right that lawsuit. I do agree that SE really does have a strange way of how they handle inactive accounts.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Oh right that lawsuit. I do agree that SE really does have a strange way of how they handle inactive accounts.

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which was swiftly changed, i had an inactive account on and off over there and i never got charged those extra fees
it was a very very early billing thing they had at the launch of the game that was removed shortly after due to sheer ammount of complaints about it

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

which was swiftly changed, i had an inactive account on and off over there and i never got charged those extra fees
it was a very very early billing thing they had at the launch of the game that was removed shortly after due to sheer ammount of complaints about it

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True. I think that restoration service also became a result of that lawsuit as well.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

True. I think that restoration service also became a result of that lawsuit as well.

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yeah, the lawsuit wasnt gonna win that was obvious, they had done nothing wrong legaly, but they did see that what they were doing would cause mopre harm then good so it was changed


even the restoration syste, was dismissed in time and you could just go back(like now)



on a side note, there have been several; games recently who have tried to quote this as a lawsuit they were gonna base theirs on if it was succesful, which is why it was such a big deal, i firmly believe still that if this lawsuit had been succesfuly MMOs would have become extinct

I miss all the fabulous, but I'm glad this thread stayed off-topic (if there ever was a topic)

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

I miss all the fabulous, but I'm glad this thread stayed off-topic (if there ever was a topic)

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The thread is still fabulous

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Originally Posted by viion

I can afford it and I will not be playing because the game is not good XD (more so, I have nothing to do in game). (My brother same situation haha)

But I will be paying for it and 2 characters so I can jump in time to time check out updates and keep my site up to date, and ofc support SE because I have faith in 2.0

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I meant stop paying, so quitting completely ^^

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Originally Posted by Heat

I believe that they are going to make a good game, and they are improving it as we can see, some of us dont like the changes and some do, and if they need our money to keep going on making what they are doing now, then I'll pay.

after all its my money and 10$ wont kill me

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thats the thing, like people have said (mainly people who defend the game) that they will work on it until 2.0, reguardless if 1 person or a million play...so again...why charge and possibly loose long time subs? Il support this game when its good enough to pay for, and 2.0 looks like it, but a promise is no garuntee. They said FF14 would be the best FF ever ....and i got burned...not going to do that again.

People continue to look at this from their prespective rather than Squares. If you don't like the game or feel that it isn't worth it in the current state. Then quit. You aren't entitled to shit. You paid for the game, and it's been free for a year and four months. That's thousands of hours of time spent in the game world. If you chose to not use that time, then that's your fault.

They need to generate money to stop bleeding as much cash. If they bleed too much the executives will be forced to shut the game down due to shareholders unloading their stock like it's on fire. New content doesn't pay for itself either.

So quit, or stay. It's a very simple choice.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

People continue to look at this from their prespective rather than Squares. If you don't like the game or feel that it isn't worth it in the current state. Then quit. You aren't entitled to shit. You paid for the game, and it's been free for a year and four months. That's thousands of hours of time spent in the game world. If you chose to not use that time, then that's your fault.

They need to generate money to stop bleeding as much cash. If they bleed too much the executives will be forced to shut the game down due to shareholders unloading their stock like it's on fire. New content doesn't pay for itself either.

So quit, or stay. It's a very simple choice.

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someone here said they are entitled to something? i dont see that. People are just arguing why or why not it is a smart time to charge, or why they WONT pay.

best argument from the white knights here: "if you don't like it ..quit...i dont care"

you know who might? People who see potential in the game, but don't think its good enough yet

and SE....thats money walking out their doors, money now, and money down the road.

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Originally Posted by KitCat

I'll give you the ultimatum they probably received from the higher ups: "Start charging for this game, or we're shutting it down, we're tired of sinking millions into a game that isn't generating revenue".

How would them just shutting the servers down and scrapping it make you feel? you wouldn't be playing either way. At least this way something might come out of it in the end.

Try being realistic for a change. Companies don't run on the kindness of their hearts. It's all about money, and if they deem something isn't worth the cost, then they cut it out.

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Pretty much this. . .

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

someone here said they are entitled to something? i dont see that. People are just arguing why or why not it is a smart time to charge, or why they WONT pay.

best argument from the white knights here: "if you don't like it ..quit...i dont care"

you know who might? People who see potential in the game, but don't think its good enough yet

and SE....thats money walking out their doors, money now, and money down the road.

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That's not a white knight argument. That's common sense. Although the "I don't care" part is childish. Also how's that money walking out the doors? They will be reinstating a free trial service period again in the future. People who have no interest now will more than likely come back too see how it ended up, even if only for a minute. What about all that money that's "walking out the doors" by them not charging now? So that is a garbage statement.

Common sense and logic are always linked to being a White Knight -- Logic dictates if you're heavily dissatisfied with a service or it pains you to play a game because of how horrible it is, you do yourself a favor and quit, you don't sit there and whine constantly about it all in the process of belittling those who enjoy what you do not enjoy.

Criticism and all is fine, but there's a difference between just flatout complaining for the sake of it and offering constructive criticism, generally its the former because people who complain also go around telling anyone they're "stupid" for enjoying/wanting to pay to play this game.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

That's not a white knight argument. That's common sense. Although the "I don't care" part is childish. Also how's that money walking out the doors? They will be reinstating a free trial service period again in the future. People who have no interest now will more than likely come back too see how it ended up, even if only for a minute. What about all that money that's "walking out the doors" by them not charging now? So that is a garbage statement.

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did you read my first comment on the first page, or just jump right to "they need to make money". Ive explained why its possible money out their doors plenty of times. I agree that anyone who hates everything about it...and could care less about 2.0 shouldnt bother, but there are tons of people who want it to be good, but its not even close enough yet.

Pretty much has been said but it comes down to a revenue standpoint so the risk vs. reward is pretty heavily in favor of charging. I like the game enough to pay. Or maybe I just don't like other games enough to not pay...