As a new player, running through the Praetorium dungeon was the worst

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

At this point, we'll have to agree to disagree, but you can't possibly tell me the spoiling of the story, which to me was the worst part, was in anyway okay. I feel like that part is being ignored for the other part of the conversation that has been reiterated constantly.



If that was to me, I said nothing about rewards, so I am unsure where this comment came from. If not at me, then carry on.

---

Nah i dont reveal spoilers to new players what so ever. And no thats not cool to do either

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlayy

We didnt ask for rewards, thats SE's design. He was lucky they carried him

---

Bless Your Little Heart. What makes you think they needed to be carried? Plenty of new players catch on pretty quick. I've seen some terrible vet players over the years.
Often those bad players that need to be carried are impatient, try to rush through content (ignoring all mechanics,) and cast asperssions to detract from their own terrible play. Acting like a jerk doesn't make you a good player. It just makes you a jerk.

This is multiplayer game. Unfortunately other players may have other priorities from yours.

It is polite to skip cut scenes when no one else is watching them.
It is also polite to let a person to finish watching a cut scene.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

newsbies should come first, content is old to @ launch ppl. not a newbie.

---

7 people shouldn't be held hostage to 1. Also, quit comparing this game to FFXI. This game is NOT FFXI. Yoshida has stated on multiple occasions that this game is not FFXI and he doesn't want it to be FFXI. That game was a grind. Things were slow. You wanted to do anything, you put your party flag up and waited for an hour. Patience was required. It catered to a much more hardcore crowd, but the result was patience for new players. This game caters to casuals. It's not meant to be a grind, it's meant to be something where people can stay current with only a few hours of playtime a week. You try telling someone who might have 2 hours of playtime a day that they HAVE to sit there and wait for that one new player...see how that goes for you.

Your views, and the views of the other "newbie" defending crowd, are just a blaise attempt to force rules you concocted on the rest of us. Guess what, those are your rules. No one else recognizes them, nor do they have to abide by them. Most of us have better things to do than to wait for those CS for one player....we're after our xp bonus and that's it. If you want to say we HAVE to watch the CS and had the ability to enforce such views, no one would run these dungeons at all and then the new players would be gated by the content ala-Raubahn. You can have your idealism, but reality says something different and you can either choose to accept that reality or continue to keep your head hidden up your fourth point of contact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

yet in ff11 a game with longer fights and longer cs, no one complained. ppl didn't say " content is irrelevant" newbies came first for a long time. also the 1 v 7 argument doesn't hold water, you can only speak for you, not 7 other people.

me and my g/f ran this as a due several times and it doesn't take an hour to do with seeing all the cs. and this is doing both cm and prae.

imo you guys were very rude, game needs new players to keep going your behavior drives them away. threads like this come up often, when will ppl learn to treat new players a bit better.

---

I stated playing XI about 2 years after the NA launch. When my LS buddies ran me through the old (insanely long) missions to help catch me up, I skipped just about every CS because I didn't want to make them wait on me. That to me would have been an incredible waste of their time when they are the ones doing me the favor.

Anyway, in my screenshot I posted, I was only trying to explain what was going to happen - and hey, I used smilies! Tone is hard to read in text, and so I tend to be excessive with my smiley use. I was trying to reassure him he wasn't missing much of anything (fighting-wise) since the first two replies came off a bit cold (to me), and it appears he took mine in the same manner. But yeah, an explanation is the best you can offer in those dungeons. It's delusional to think that a full DF group is going to wait on the new member.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

please remove your head from where the sun don't shine. as I stated, i ran this for my g/f 4+ times as we 2-man it. it did not take us an hour to run BOTH cm and prae. She watched all the cs, and i waited. most cs are 10-20 secs long. the longest CS's are around the ultima fight at 2 min in total. so please stop acting rude. People with attitudes like your do not belong in mmo. Newbies should come first. i've seen this thread pop up 40 times if not more since ARR 2.1 when i started, my g/f seen it more times as she started at launch.

Even befoe the msq roulette was added people acted like this.

---

Perhaps you ought to take your own advice.

Castrum - 14:39
Praetorium - 31:21

Even assuming your GF reads fast, there is no way you both didn't spend over twenty minutes just watching cut scenes in Praetorium.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaimaSansun

honestly they should remove the skipping cutscene option from some of the older dungeons to let people watch it and not be rude about it =3

---

As noted, do this and no one will ever touch either Castrum or Praetorium again. The sheer length of the later's cut scenes is essentially asking upwards of seven other players to do nothing for twenty-five minutes so you can watch cut scenes. If you find a group willing, give them a hug but don't expect it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dahwoon

Just ran through the Praetorium dungeon to finish up the ARR story and it was rushed the whole way until the last boss. From my experiences with previous dungeons, I've just given up completely on watching cutscenes and now watch them prior/after.

Also one asshole at the end decided that allowing people to watch a few lengthy cutscenes wasn't part of his agenda so he typed up a big paragraph which I'm pretty sure included key story points and spoilers from both Heavensward and Stormblood. So now before I've even gotten around to buying the Stormblood expansion, there are a few things I now know beforehand which pisses me off..

I don't get why some people need to go to these lengths just because a dungeon takes a little longer than expected. I don't know, maybe my anger isn't warranted, but what's wrong with those who want to be invested into the story/lore of game they play. Yeah we're a couple years late to the party, but what gives....

---

I agree. It's terrible and Yoshi P. should do something about it. It was an awful feeling for me too, when I was catching up on some content. Hopefully you can find a good free company that will help you with content and let you watch cutscenes.


IMO people shouldn't be able to progress until everyone finishes the cutscene. And it should be a reportable offense for kicking someone or giving them a hard time for them wanting to watch cutscenes. This is Final Fantasy after all! The story is an integral part to the genre!

Also, something needs to be done about new players not being able to experience things like the Coil of Bahmut. No one ques for it and people should be able to experience the content & story.

P.S. If anyone needs a DPS for story content feel free to hit me up. I want people not to feel rushed and to be able to experience this wonderful game!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Owatatsumi

IMO people shouldn't be able to progress until everyone finishes the cutscene. And it should be a reportable offense for kicking someone or giving them a hard time for them wanting to watch cutscenes.

---

You can absolutely report people for unjustified kicking. If you or someone you're in a duty with gets kicked because they want to watch the cutscenes, report the people who did it. You can even report them if they're being verbally abusive or trying to grief you for wanting to watch the story.

In regards to Coil, there are often groups up in PF who run them unsynced for Wondrous Tales. Finding a synced group would be much harder (especially for T8-13), but if you were patient you might be able to get one together. If story is your primary concern I would make an unsync group in Party Finder and advertise that you have bonus and WILL BE WATCHING CUTSCENES. There aren't many long ones in Coil IIRC, but they aren't exactly short either. If you were on Aether I'd volunteer to help for a trip down memory lane. Coil was great and I even grew to like getting my ass kicked by the T9 boss over and over again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

7 people shouldn't be held hostage to 1.

---

it rarely is 1 newbie vs 7 others. In most cases it is 5 newbies 3 others, or 4 v4. You can't speak for 7 others, just yourself.

Also if you actually read what I said, in no way i'm suggesting to make ff14 into ff11. I was comparing the communities, and how ff11 was new player friendly for 11 years, and that ff14 is not. Considering your rude response.

new players are a bread and butter for mmo. They should feel welcomed into a community. We are suppose to work as a team, not treat others like npc.

oh and my g.f played ff11 for a year at first with 2 hours a day, she never treated anyone rudely for choosing to watch cs, nor did she make them skip. Waiting for group members shows a basic level of teamwork, it welcomes new players.

ypu act like everyone but you is an npc. why do you play mmo with that attitude. Speak for yourself not others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

I stated playing XI about 2 years after the NA launch. When my LS buddies ran me through the old (insanely long) missions to help catch me up, I skipped just about every CS because I didn't want to make them wait on me. That to me would have been an incredible waste of their time when they are the ones doing me the favor.

---

but did they make you? Did they tell you skip or else? did they tell you to suck it up?

my gf played it 8 years, outside of her dislike of rdm healer only groups, she had a pleasant time.


asking the both of you, how many threads of this coming up do you need to read before getting a wake up call to how rude it is to just speed run dungeons with out people of your group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dahwoon

Edit: Wow this blew up a lot more than I expected. For those that are reaching out to run through the dungeon with me, I appreciate the gesture, but I finished the dungeon and watched the cutscenes on Youtube. I also did not know about the option to watch story-related cutscenes inside the Inn so I will be going back to that later just so I can see my own character in the cutscenes.

---

Wish I coulda gotten to you before you posted this. Prae is...a sore spot for the community. Any post about it will explode just like any post about parsers and healer dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Perhaps you ought to take your own advice.

Castrum - 14:39
Praetorium - 31:21

Even assuming your GF reads fast, there is no way you both didn't spend over twenty minutes just watching cut scenes in Praetorium.



As noted, do this and no one will ever touch either Castrum or Praetorium again. The sheer length of the later's cut scenes is essentially asking upwards of seven other players to do nothing for twenty-five minutes so you can watch cut scenes. If you find a group willing, give them a hug but don't expect it.

---

poor excuse showing a youtube vide made for showing the cs. Those are made to showcase the cs, and are slowly viewed so people can read it.

why not film yourself doing a run of both showing cs at your pace and clock in the time. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

but did they make you? Did they tell you skip or else? did they tell you to suck it up?

asking the both of you, how many threads of this coming up do you need to read before getting a wake up call to how rude it is to just speed run dungeons with out people of your group.

---

No, they did not ask me. I skipped because I valued their time and help more than my own needs. They were doing me a huge favor by running through content they had no need of, and in turn I respected their time and skipped CSs.

And how many times does this topic need to come up before you realize that an MMO is a collective effort. 1 person's needs do not outweigh anyone else's. Unless a group was intentionally formed through PF or with friends/FC mates with the intent to watch all CSs, do not expect anyone to sit idly by and waste 15-30+ minutes of their time on them. MSQ roulette benefits both veteran and new players alike, and I don't understand why people are choosing to ignore this little tidbit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

asking the both of you, how many threads of this coming up do you need to read before getting a wake up call to how rude it is to just speed run dungeons with out people of your group.

---

there could be 500 octodecillion threads about it, but you have to remember that generally speaking, NA/EU communities are more individualistic. I don't consider it rude, just a difference in upbringing. A difference in perspective. New players are the lifeblood of an MMO yes, but they eventually become veteran players so IMO it's not the worst thing in the world to steel them early on for what they'll deal with. Sure, it's not my approach, but for any modern MMO you need a thick skin. If they can tolerate it, great. If not, perhaps MMO isn't for them. I'll try to be supportive but at the end of the day, majority rules. And in my experiences, it has been 1-7 (newbie-veteran), or 2-6. Until Square Enix change it to a solo instance (maybe with an NPC party to simulate that 8-man duty feel), then nothing will change. It sucks, but we need to accept it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

poor excuse showing a youtube vide made for showing the cs. Those are made to showcase the cs, and are slowly viewed so people can read it.

why not film yourself doing a run of both showing cs at your pace and clock in the time. :)

---

... that's the whole point. People who want to watch cut scenes aren't going to speed read through them. They'll want to enjoy it, which takes longer.

Because I don't have the equipment nor desire to waste an hour on this? When I did Praetorium way back when, it took over forty minutes after accounting for bosses and etc. Even if you cut that time by half, you're still asking potentially seven other player to do nothing so you can watch cut scenes. They aren't going to.

Quote:

---

The cutscenes in Castrum Meridianum are about 15 minutes long and the cutscenes in Praetorium are about 35 minutes long. If you don't believe me, you can look up videos on Youtube that are nothing but the cutscenes from either dungeon.

---

I've run Praetorium for someone recently who did not skip any of the cutscenes, and the dungeon (plus the cutscenes) did not take more than 35 minutes. As such, I'm inclined to doubt that these cutscenes were 35 minutes long.

Pretty sure you are adding the closing cutscene (the one after the dungeon is complete) to the length of the dungeon. Which... you shouldn't be doing, obviously.

I just watched the cut scenes my first run and participated in the dungeon on my second. Yeah it sucks but too many people are in a hurry these days or don't care about the story.

We do have an opportunity to change this though. Another Letters with the Producer Live is coming up. Why don't we all that have complaints about Meridian and Praetorium bring it up during that? If enough complaints get to SE's ear maybe they will finally change it. Ik, idealistic thinking but its better than just complaining on the forums and being ignored or flamed, mew.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Pretty sure you are adding the closing cutscene (the one after the dungeon is complete) to the length of the dungeon. Which... you shouldn't be doing, obviously.

---

Per the YouTube videos that Bourne_Endeavor linked, the closing cutscene at the end of Praetorium only adds three minutes, so if you are able to watch around 28 minutes of cutscenes and do the dungeon itself in about seven minutes, that is pretty impressive.

Even if you have a turbo speed reader watching the cutscenes, that would still be a minimum of like 20 minutes wherein the rest of the party is just standing around.

If it were just 10 or so minutes, I really don't think most people would care, but Praetorium with the cutscenes is really egregiously long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violyre

You're right to be angry. This has been a long going problem, which is the reason why they changed how the final dungeons happen in Heavensward and Stormblood. Unfortunately, this is the norm for people now. People will actually kick others if they want to watch the CS. It's disgusting, and I really wish they'd do something like split the dungeon into a bunch of trials or something.

---

I've never seen anybody get kicked for watching. People don't stop bolting through the place long enough to notice or care.

They should convert it to a solo instance for first timers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

snip

---

Really? I've never seen more than 2 newbies in a CM/Praet run. So I guess over the 100s of times I've run these dungeons over the last several years I always had a "rare" run. Maybe it was that way near the end of HW, but with the new expansion people are running these roulettes for XP again. The only response here that's been rude is yours. You've got your view and you're trying to make the rest of us conform to it. Get off your high horse, you are in a very tiny minority here. I'm going to toss your words right back at you: Speak for yourself and not others. Why do you play MMO if you aren't even interested in what's best for EVERYBODY.

I didn't get kicked or anything else, but that was the first dungeon I got lost in from watching some of the cut scenes my first go at it. For the most part, I haven't had any issues if I were to watch cut scenes, but I tend to leave them for the Inn or if I'm in a party of my friends. Just so I can enjoy them on my own. It does suck that you had one asshole that decided to spoil other things for you, that was uncalled for. But then again, there are tons of rude people out there. I hope this is the worse experience you end up facing, and everything else goes smoother.

I have some questions for the rushers: why do you run these two dungeons? It's obviously not to help, so that means that you're after the exp/tomes. Those get doubled for each and every vet player if there's a newbie (it means that you are effectively doing two runs at once), which in turn saves you the time of:
1) queuing again
2) running the dungeon once more, or any other one

Can you explain us already why do you think that you deserve to get these perks without doing an effort to get them?

^^ You just get poetics tomestones doubled, which are only useful if you're working on your relic or gearing an alt. The last two times I ran MSQ roulette I was poetics capped because I have nothing to spend them on.
^^There is no veteran exp bonus for having first timers in your group, just the bonus you get for doing a roulette.

It's been said by a few other people already but I'll add my voice to the pile as well.
When I first did Castrum/Praetorium back in the day, my friend warned me that I would need to skip cutscenes because people would be speedrunning so I did and watched them later. Now that I'm speedrunning, if someone wants to watch the cutscenes instead of skipping to do fights they can, I don't mind. I won't say anything and I won't kick them. But I'm not waiting. If it becomes mandatory, I will never queue for the MSQ roulette ever again. I have limited playtime and I run those duties for the exp and tomestones. And its not because I don't care about the story because I do watch all the MSQ cutscenes. Just not when other people are waiting on me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yshnal

I have some questions for the rushers: why do you run these two dungeons? It's obviously not to help, so that means that you're after the exp/tomes. Those get doubled for each and every vet player if there's a newbie (it means that you are effectively doing two runs at once), which in turn saves you the time of:
1) queuing again
2) running the dungeon once more, or any other one

Can you explain us already why do you think that you deserve to get these perks without doing an effort to get them?

---

I'm not sure what's so difficult for you to understand, but the queue is not a contract to sit through cutscenes. It's an attempt to motivate self-interested players to fill out parties so new players can at least get through the dungeons. They are living up to their end by completing the dungeon. The two obvious rewards are poetics and the XP bonus at the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

please remove your head from where the sun don't shine. as I stated, i ran this for my g/f 4+ times as we 2-man it. it did not take us an hour to run BOTH cm and prae. She watched all the cs, and i waited. most cs are 10-20 secs long. the longest CS's are around the ultima fight at 2 min in total. so please stop acting rude. People with attitudes like your do not belong in mmo. Newbies should come first. i've seen this thread pop up 40 times if not more since ARR 2.1 when i started, my g/f seen it more times as she started at launch.

Even befoe the msq roulette was added people acted like this.

---

My attitude is what, exactly? That we should value the time of everyone in the group and not demand the entire world revolve around us? Because as I mentioned earlier, I skipped these cutscenes when I was going through the first time because I felt it was unfair to the rest of the group. Had I known how undertuned the dungeon was, I might not have, but regardless, I would never be so utterly self-centered as to demand everyone else sit around twiddling their thumbs for 35 minutes when there are other workable options available to me. I watch every cutscene the first time through and I afford the same opportunity to others, which is why I won't complain if people are watching cutscenes in these dungeons, but my time and that of the other players in the group has value too and we are not just bots there for the benefit of the new player. It is unreasonable to expect us to sit around waiting for them to finish all of their cutscenes and if they try to force us to do so, we'll simply abandon MSQ roulette. Should something like that happen, I expect to see the lot of you that are complaining about what horrible people we are doing as many runs each day as you need to in order to make sure all of the sprouts get through in a timely fashion, your own in-game goals and real world responsibilities be damned.

I mean at 10-20 seconds long, sounds more like your girlfriend just skipped all of the cutscenes and what you were waiting on was her load times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

It's not an exaggeration, as you'd likely need to do multiple runs per day to make up for all of the slack created by doing as the other poster wants and kicking everyone who won't stand around for 35 minutes in Praetorium out of the MSQ roulette. The rest of your post really just proves my point that people aren't the least bit concerned with the consequences of their demands for "purity."

---

Pure speculation here. As others have suggested, there are plenty of ideas out there to convert the MSQ dungeons to solo instances at this point, eliminating the problem entirely.

More to the point, again - queueing for the MSQ is effectively saying "I'm willing to help people." That in and of itself is laudable. But when you then have an expectation that players sacrifice the storyline (not a preference for skipping, but an imposed expectation), you're quite probably causing more harm than good in a lot of ways. Case in point, when I returned to XIV about six months ago, I created a new character so I could get in the swing of things before jumping into Heavensward. When I queued for Castrum and Praetorium, even though I'd known they were rushed in the past, I was still stunned. I'd have vastly preferred to wait for a couple of hours and get a proper experience. The thing is, though, there's no option for this in the Duty Finder. The PF is a possibility for a player like me, but it's a lot to expect new players ("sprouts" as you call them) to know in advance that they need to use it to ensure a quality experience in the final storyline missions.

My point being, you seem to view half-arsed rushed help as being better than none at all - but my own experience, and likely that of others, begs to differ.

Quote:

---

It's telling though that you're just openly insulting me while I'm being at least moderately polite and civil. But yeah, I'm the bad guy.

---

Yes, it is. It's telling that speed runs are so disruptive to the feel of the final few missions that they still bring anger out of me years later. The behaviour of people in these dungeons, led primarily by tanks (who ultimately control the pace of progression), is horrific. And no, I don't personally feel like you should get to pat yourself on the back and think 'at least I'm kind of helping' when partial help is worse than none at all for many players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vhailor

More to the point, again - queueing for the MSQ is effectively saying "I'm willing to help people." That in and of itself is laudable.

---

I think this line right here is at the base of the disagreements. SE designed this particular roulette to help new players get through the old ARR MSQ dungeons/fights quickly. They know it is outdated content and that very few people would willingly queue up for those particular instances. The desire to help new players is SE's idea, not the player's.

So what do they offer in order to lure people into the instances? Exp and tomes. I can obviously only speak for myself, but I only run the MSQ for these reasons. I imagine this is the main reason anyone runs. Perhaps there are a few angels who do it out of the kindness of their heart, but I highly doubt that is the driving force for the majority of the playerbase. Take away tomes and exp, and you will see how quickly the altruism dries up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vhailor

Pure speculation here. As others have suggested, there are plenty of ideas out there to convert the MSQ dungeons to solo instances at this point, eliminating the problem entirely.

More to the point, again - queueing for the MSQ is effectively saying "I'm willing to help people." That in and of itself is laudable. But when you then have an expectation that players sacrifice the storyline (not a preference for skipping, but an imposed expectation), you're quite probably causing more harm than good in a lot of ways. Case in point, when I returned to XIV about six months ago, I created a new character so I could get in the swing of things before jumping into Heavensward. When I queued for Castrum and Praetorium, even though I'd known they were rushed in the past, I was still stunned. I'd have vastly preferred to wait for a couple of hours and get a proper experience. The thing is, though, there's no option for this in the Duty Finder. The PF is a possibility for a player like me, but it's a lot to expect new players ("sprouts" as you call them) to know in advance that they need to use it to ensure a quality experience in the final storyline missions.

My point being, you seem to view half-arsed rushed help as being better than none at all - but my own experience, and likely that of others, begs to differ.


Yes, it is. It's telling that speed runs are so disruptive to the feel of the final few missions that they still bring anger out of me years later. The behaviour of people in these dungeons, led primarily by tanks (who ultimately control the pace of progression), is horrific. And no, I don't personally feel like you should get to pat yourself on the back and think 'at least I'm kind of helping' when partial help is worse than none at all for many players.

---

Queuing for MSQ is saying "Oh hey, poetics and and a bunch of experience. Yeah, I think I want those." Anything else is your imagination. You really don't seem to understand what it means that the group is made up of random people, so I'll tell you: It means you don't get to be picky about who joins nor do you get to dictate their motivations to them. If you want people to wait while you watch cutscenes, cool. If the other seven people don't want to wait, too bad for you. Should have made a PF group where you can control who does what and play the big boss. Though yeah, I think getting through content that literally the rest of the game is stuck behind is better than not getting behind it. Again, if this matters to you so much, then go take an active role in fixing it rather than just whining at people on the forums. Can't say skipping cutscenes in Praetorium made me angry or ruined my gaming experience though, but then again, I make a habit of thinking about others and not just trying to hold them hostage until they give into my demands.

And it's funny that you think tanks control the pace. I routinely tank those. I try to at least make sure nobody is locked out while they skip cutscenes. Healers and DPS won't even let me do that much. They don't need me. I'm a convenience, nothing more. The most useful thing tanks do in Praetorium is pull all of the trash on that long run through the wall and down the ramp and I've done that just fine on my WHM by simply Swiftcasting a Holy so I could go down the elevator no problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

poor excuse showing a youtube vide made for showing the cs. Those are made to showcase the cs, and are slowly viewed so people can read it.

why not film yourself doing a run of both showing cs at your pace and clock in the time. :)

---

Took your challenge, here ya go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpCoIjPHbO0

Took about an hour and a half, watching every cutscene and taking my time reading them aloud. Though my voice is literal garbage so you're forgiven if you (or your girl or friend don't want to) watch the whole thing. Also take into account most Lv70 DPS do more damage than an entire Lv50 party combined, so I was pushing through those dungeons faster in some cases than rushing 8 mans would.

It was a fun little side trip though. Got to refresh on a lot of plot points I missed out on my first run through. I highly suggest people go through and replay this just for the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Took your challenge, here ya go.

---

...he actually did it the absolute madman

http://i.imgur.com/NxLJD2V.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Took your challenge, here ya go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpCoIjPHbO0

---

https://i.giphy.com/media/b9aScKLxdv0Y0/giphy.webp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by missybee

...he actually did it the absolute madman

http://i.imgur.com/NxLJD2V.jpg

---

I love this community.

Yeah, no, almost no one does these roulettes "to help newbies". Most of the people do it for fast exp, tomes and the gil bonus. If SR'd properly, these dungeons give a fast income. Also, these dungeons have been SR'd since the begining of ARR when farming for Allagan Tomestone of Philosophy was a thing. It's a bad design on SE's side, placing so many CS in an 8-man dungeon, sadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Took your challenge, here ya go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpCoIjPHbO0

Took about an hour and a half, watching every cutscene and taking my time reading them aloud. Though my voice is literal garbage so you're forgiven if you (or your girl or friend don't want to) watch the whole thing. Also take into account most Lv70 DPS do more damage than an entire Lv50 party combined, so I was pushing through those dungeons faster in some cases than rushing 8 mans would.

It was a fun little side trip though. Got to refresh on a lot of plot points I missed out on my first run through. I highly suggest people go through and replay this just for the story.

---

I went and actually solo cleared an unsynced Praetorium on my 70 PLD. As far as I could tell, I was actually clearing it faster than they do at 50, at least in terms of combat.

[18:09]The Praetorium completion time: 40:46.

I absolutely blitzed the unvoiced cutscenes, and clicked through the text as fast as I could read it, which for one or two lines of text is basically as quickly as the speech bubble comes into my field of vision. I actually cut some of the voiced stuff off because I didn't want to wait for it to sit there for 15 seconds to finish making a dumb noise or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

I went and actually solo cleared an unsynced Praetorium on my 70 PLD. As far as I could tell, I was actually clearing it faster than they do at 50, at least in terms of combat.

[18:09]The Praetorium completion time: 40:46.

I absolutely blitzed the unvoiced cutscenes, and clicked through the text as fast as I could read it, which for one or two lines of text is basically as quickly as the speech bubble comes into my field of vision. I actually cut some of the voiced stuff off because I didn't want to wait for it to sit there for 15 seconds to finish making a dumb noise or something.

---

http://i.imgur.com/PSiYWGB.jpg
23:08, with cutscenes disabled on WHM.

The main thing about doing this solo is you need to be able to kill the adds Nero summons before they get to you, otherwise you get pinned to a corner. The first time I tried this in i180 gear at level 60, I just got stuck in an endless "cast canceled". At level 70, a single Stone IV can take out the adds, so as long as you hit it the second it appears you're fine.

Which means most ranged DPS should be able to clear it. Melee DPS might get stuck at that point.

As for how fast everything was being cleared, I'm absolutely sure everything was cleared about as fast as a full party of 8 except for the Magitek sequence since it does a fixed amount of damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

newsbies should come first, content is old to @ launch ppl. not a newbie.

---

Not when it comes to DF. They can go with their FC or make a party for it instead.

LOL XI was new player friendly for 11 years... Total BS. Plenty of people would player kill on there by training 15 mobs to the zone so they would obliterate all those parties camping for exp, BST dropping their pets on parties like those bats that do jet stream Black mages that would warp 2 a player back to their home point. Theres so much more.. that game is far from a freindly community.

I actually suggest asking novice network for a couple of willing mentors to run you through it unsynced and let you watch the cutscenes as you go.
The fights will seem extremely underwhelming with lvl 70 jobs carrying you through, however the experience is bound to be better than doing those particular two dungeons in DF.

I suppose it's too late to offer this advice though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

http://i.imgur.com/PSiYWGB.jpg
23:08, with cutscenes disabled on WHM.

---

...but I thought the point was that we were trying to determine how long a run with someone watching the cutscenes would take.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngeloFlick

^^ You just get poetics tomestones doubled, which are only useful if you're working on your relic or gearing an alt. The last two times I ran MSQ roulette I was poetics capped because I have nothing to spend them on.
^^There is no veteran exp bonus for having first timers in your group, just the bonus you get for doing a roulette.

It's been said by a few other people already but I'll add my voice to the pile as well.
When I first did Castrum/Praetorium back in the day, my friend warned me that I would need to skip cutscenes because people would be speedrunning so I did and watched them later. Now that I'm speedrunning, if someone wants to watch the cutscenes instead of skipping to do fights they can, I don't mind. I won't say anything and I won't kick them. But I'm not waiting. If it becomes mandatory, I will never queue for the MSQ roulette ever again. I have limited playtime and I run those duties for the exp and tomestones. And its not because I don't care about the story because I do watch all the MSQ cutscenes. Just not when other people are waiting on me.

---

I'm sorry, but you should pay more attention. You get an exp bonus for having a new player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

I'm not sure what's so difficult for you to understand, but the queue is not a contract to sit through cutscenes. It's an attempt to motivate self-interested players to fill out parties so new players can at least get through the dungeons. They are living up to their end by completing the dungeon. The two obvious rewards are poetics and the XP bonus at the end.

---

And why is so difficult for you to understand that maybe the new players don't need you (as in the uncompromising rushers)? And even if they did, it would force SE to fix these dungeons once and for all.

Please, don't try to make it seem as if you care about these new players when you obviously don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

[18:09]The Praetorium completion time: 40:46.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

http://i.imgur.com/PSiYWGB.jpg
23:08, with cutscenes disabled on WHM.

---

^ Which means that I was right when I've been telling you that the rewards are well worth waiting. You get twice as much for it taking almost twice as much time. On top of that you get the same reward that you would get on a second run but without having to wait for the queues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yshnal

^ Which means that I was right when I've been telling you that the rewards are well worth waiting. You get twice as much for it taking almost twice as much time. On top of that you get the same reward that you would get on a second run but without having to wait for the queues.

---

You are still missing the point that the bonus is to lure people into the dungeons in the first place. CM and Prae would not be my choice for poetics in the first place. Why on earth would I continue to queue for the MSQ roulette if it now suddenly takes twice as long?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

You are still missing the point that the bonus is to lure people into the dungeons in the first place. CM and Prae would not be my choice for poetics in the first place. Why on earth would I continue to queue for the MSQ roulette if it now suddenly takes twice as long?

---

Wrong, that bonus is there as a reward for playing with new players. So, unless you're assuming that you know that you're going to get new players in that run before you're already in, which you don't, you are confusing the roulette bonus with the new player bonus, which are two completely different things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigRed5392

newsbies should come first, content is old to @ launch ppl. not a newbie.

---

Knowing that DF brings together a bunch of random people to form a party, one would have to be incredibly naive to expect special treatment.

If a person wants special treatment, they ought to make a PF specifying so, or ask friends/FC.