Sprint: The nerf nobody wanted

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

But they main bard, so they don't care about not sprinting in combat like the others. As I said, :see_no_evil:

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But.... they're making claims that they hate the changes to it as a gatherer. They didn't say anything about hating it as a Bard. See, I love the changes for my MCH but not so much on my SMN. See how that works?

Couldn't there be a way to apply a context-sensitive cooldown timer, where it detects if you're in combat, in an instance, in a city, on a gathering job, etc.?

hopefully, among what has already been suggested, there is some way to work around this new change without completely breaking the game. giving us more freedom and mobility outside of combat.

personally, i just want two functions to sprint. if your in combat, than the sprint time would be 20 seconds. if you are out of combat, than the sprint time is 40-50 seconds. as a catch, out-of-combat sprint will instantly stop the player once he/she is in combat.

i really do not see a reason why the sprint should not be so limiting outside of combat.

unless some people just like an extremely slow MMOJRPG for the sake of nostalgia. in this case, deal with it, because slow MMOJRPGs are severely outdated and the reason why so many new players below level 20 quit early.

I have to wonder how few people raving over the change here actually played a non-WAR tank, for which TP was near useless in AoE pulls anyways, or a caster... Heck, even as a Monk I'd occasionally Sprint in dungeon combat, Invigorating immediately afterwards and buying back the TP with Purification between sprinting pulls... Having the CD doubled atop having the in-combat duration reduced to as little as half is not pleasant in any of these scenarios. Not to mention pre-mount QoL or just zipping about town.

My personal preference, although complicated:

Sprint runs on a unique cooldown (a.k.a. "charge") system, holding up to 40 seconds' of duration (1 minute's charge), charging at 2 second's duration per 3 seconds' real time (generated on the global MP/TP tick). One activated, Sprint will last however long it's been charged for, but duration drains twice as fast while in combat. The duration indicator will re-estimate to reflect this when entering or leaving combat.

As a caster main, i strongly agree with this change. Sure it has a longer CD. But it allows my fellow non-casters to sprint in combat and from one combat point to the other too, so the CD is worth it. Up until now, sprint was stupid and extremely unfair.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Everyone who likes it are melees talking about in combat and everyone who hates it are not talking about combat and hate the cooldown time. I hate it because I'm just trying to run from quest to quest in cities and it's taking forever when it used to be much faster since I could sprint more often. We can all agree it's cool that melees can sprint in combat now but just make it the old timer when out of combat

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I hate the new Sprint in combat well. I also used it frequently. Mostly to make it to things you have to stand in to mitigate damage but also to avoid aoe.

I vote they cut the cooldown in half, and cut the duration in half.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

DoL = Terrible move!
anybody within mount-restricted areas = ridiculous move!
new players = "slowest game ever!" (rage quit)

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Bards and Machinist = "I never need Sprint outside of combat"

All these spoiled casters complaining about a longer cooldown. You've already had it easy all this time! I'm just happy to be able to sprint without having to pop Invigorate afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

All these spoiled casters complaining about a longer cooldown. You've already had it easy all this time! I'm just happy to be able to sprint without having to pop Invigorate afterwards.

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it's not like they deserve it, nor have they intended for the old sprint to be so difficult for TP users in the first place. this nerf was never needed for any scenario, nor was it ever suggested in the first place.

"nerf sprint". who would agree to that?

Agreed, this a great change for combat but absolutely terrible outside of it.

Gathering - Sprint is pretty much essential since it can be used in Stealth (which normally slows your walk to a crawl). Sprint + Stealth = almost normal walking pace. If you are gathering at level you need stealth, especially in the new areas where mobs will one-shot you. It's not always a good idea to use the mount between nodes as you'll get aggro if mobs are nearby.

New Players - agree with the point's made earlier, this is really going to slow them down pre-level 20 and probably turn a lot of them off the game.

Cities - Slower movement for everyone.

Swimming - Sprint gives a nice boost to speed, so again slower movement for everyone.

Sightseeing Log - Sprint is needed to make some of the jumps. One minute between tries is going to make this absolutely painful.

It would be nice if we could go back to the old cooldown out of combat.

Exactly why can't we get sprint how it was, except without the TP cost?! Casters had a "free" sprint for 20sec every 30sec for a long time and it never "broke" the game. Why would it break the game for a tank or non-caster DPS?!

It should had just have its TP cost removed. There was never any need to make any other change.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Exactly why can't we get sprint how it was, except without the TP cost?! Casters had a "free" sprint for 20sec every 30sec for a long time and it never "broke" the game. Why would it break the game for a tank or non-caster DPS?!

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Old Sprint cooldown with no TP cost would be a big buff for monks, as an example

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Complaints complaints complaints thats all I see lately, I'm glad for the new change as now Tanks and melee can now use the sprint and to be honest if you were meant to be able to sprint constantly the Dev's would have baked the skill into the character, If it was me I'd have removed it because you're all acting like spoilt children lately.

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No. What we are acting like is paying customers who are unhappy with the service we are receiving

Ok, Put me down for that Sprint changes need to be made OUTSIDE of combat.

Gathering.. yea this charges way too slow.

Cities. We should be allowed to print much more then this, or bring back the hermes sandals again for the city.

i mentioned it earlier but i really think they just need to leave sprint the way it was when your outside combat. they already know how to limit things inside and outside combat, stoneskin 2 was proof of that.
the changes are still what intended for combat and crafters/gatherers/everyone else just doing normal stuff can have sprint the way it was. win/win

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Originally Posted by Solarra

New Players - agree with the point's made earlier, this is really going to slow them down pre-level 20 and probably turn a lot of them off the game.

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You make some good points, but I have to stop you here.

Literally no one is going to realistically stop playing an entire game over a 1 minute cooldown. If they do, then they didn't like the game very much to begin with anyway.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Old Sprint cooldown with no TP cost would be a big buff for monks, as an example

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Sprint in and off itself is good. Whenever playing a caster, there is basically no boss with AoE's that I didn't use sprint against...outside of the early dungeons, that is.

Monks wouldn't really get that much damage out of it. If you're talking about positional attacks, they can already be done with miniscule movement where sprint will be irrelevant. It's all about two factors. The tank and the monks skill. A tank that moves a lot will not let monk use their positional skills well no matter how good they are. In order to keep up with the changes, they would need to stop attacking for a few moments.

Other than that? Monks would get out of AoE a bit later and enter a bit sooner. It would save maybe one second?! We're not talking about large distances here after all. So yeah, sorry. I have no idea why it would be a big thing in PvE.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You make some good points, but I have to stop you here.

Literally no one is going to realistically stop playing an entire game over a 1 minute cooldown. If they do, then they didn't like the game very much to begin with anyway.

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i dont know, i was pretty close. here i am now, experiencing the same thing all over again with the nerf; specifically within cities and while gathering.

we must consider that there are some new players who will actually quit because of this.

i really dont see a reason why things shouldn't go back to the way they were without the cost of TP. all people who defend the changes are just either giving us encouragement to "deal with it" or telling us how much of a benefit it is to TP users and them alone.

While I agree that 30 seconds should have been the cooldown. It was a much needed change in QoL for melee.

As a melee it's been great--dodging a particularly large and punishing AoE in the final MSQ trial is a great example of how Sprint is useful in combat.

I think it's fine the way it is now and I always found it a bit odd that this game allowed casters to sprint with such ridiculous uptime. However, a CD reduction if used out of combat would be a nice QoL change, especially for cities where we can't use our chocobos.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

i really dont see a reason why things shouldn't go back to the way they were without the cost of TP. all people who defend the changes are just either giving us encouragement to "deal with it" or telling us how much of a benefit it is to TP users and them alone.

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And you're saying that we should go back and melee dps should just suck it up and take one for the team. While I agree the CD shouldn't be 60 seconds, I'm still happier with the idea that it doesn't cost TP. It's absolutely annoying that it costs the entire key resource pool for one group of players, but the other group gets it for basically free.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

And you're saying that we should go back and melee dps should just suck it up and take one for the team.

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Actually, no. He's not saying that. He said basically what I did, that the only change to it should have been removal of TP costs.

The combat/non-combat differentiation ain't that bad. The problem is with the doubled cooldown. However, it never should have taken all of TP, or any TP for that matter. As much as that sounds logical (TP being "stamina" pretty much and all), it's just broken with how TP is used in this game and how sprint took TP first and then gave profits later. If it would be stance where it drains TP only when it is on, then it would be a bit easier to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Old Sprint cooldown with no TP cost would be a big buff for monks, as an example

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Only because they didn't have it before... It would not break the game.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

The combat/non-combat differentiation ain't that bad. The problem is with the doubled cooldown. However, it never should have taken all of TP, or any TP for that matter. As much as that sounds logical (TP being "stamina" pretty much and all), it's just broken with how TP is used in this game and how sprint took TP first and then gave profits later. If it would be stance where it drains TP only when it is on, then it would be a bit easier to deal with.

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Yes. Sprint should simply have its own stamina gauge or a flat cooldown that mirrors the length it took for TP to regen previously.

In this game you can walk, jog or sprint. Those pushing for change want to either sprint longer or more often. Meaning they feel that walking is too slow and jogging is not fast enough. Some of you demand more sprinting everywhere; in combat, out of combat and in cities. If that's the case, why even bother having players jog? Why not simply ask SE to replace jogging with sprinting? That would make you happy, no? It would make the bot users happy, too.

Let's say SE replaces jogging with sprinting but then also introduces an even faster tier of travel called, I don't know, dashing or some other that had a similar cool down. Would the people complaining now be content, you think? Not likely. This type of complaint has no end.

And I stare in disbelief at those who use the argument of immersion to support continuous sprinting in cities over the use of crystals. So walking and jogging are not the alternatives for immersion but sprinting is? Oh yes, I can see how players are immersed when they're running around like they're about to piss themselves. So let's say it really is an issue of immersion for you, to be able to sprint in the city. What about for other players? How does it impact their immersion to see others frantically rushing about like they don't have a second to spare.

No matter how I look at it people simply want to exploit the game with these kinds of requests but mask it behind legitimate-sounding reasons.

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Originally Posted by Just-Communication

No matter how I look at it people simply want to exploit the game with these kinds of requests but mask it behind legitimate-sounding reasons.

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Did you actually read through the thread? Most of us would like the new cool-down not to apply outside of combat. That's all.
It won't affect bots, I assume you haven't seen them in action if you think it will; they move much faster than we can and usually under or through the terrain.

While the change is great for TP users in combat (me included), it adversely affects new players, gatherers, people doing the Sightseeing Log and all of us when it comes to moving around cities. Which is why we'd like it reverted for non-combat situations, if possible.
I don't see how you can interpret a simple request to revert something to the way it was as a desire to exploit the game.

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Originally Posted by Just-Communication

No matter how I look at it people simply want to exploit the game with these kinds of requests but mask it behind legitimate-sounding reasons.

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It couldn't be more apparent that you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. People who want to exploit the game aren't constrained by the limitations of the game and could simply hack speed rather than vie for changes on the forums.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Actually, no. He's not saying that. He said basically what I did, that the only change to it should have been removal of TP costs.

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I agree with you there, the tone of his posts however (yes reading tone on the internet) is aggressive towards people who like the good part of the change over the bad part of it. I like this sprint better than old sprint. I think both sprints are hot garbage and it should just be 30 seconds cooldown with the duration reduction it has in combat right now. But I'll take it over the old sprint any day.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

All these spoiled casters complaining about a longer cooldown. You've already had it easy all this time! I'm just happy to be able to sprint without having to pop Invigorate afterwards.

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It's not a matter of casters being spoiled - as it was before, it did make some sense. Casters have to stand still for a majority of their spells, where as DPS do not. Yes, a DPS may lose out on that perfect positional bonus, but they can still get a move off before running out of the AOE where as a caster would have to cancel their full cast. Casters already have a disadvantage in combat due to not being as mobile - this helped balance the playing field a bit.

I do think the change is quite nice for all the non-caster classes. My main is WHM, but I do play other jobs, so I get it. But yeah, an in-combat vs. out-of-combat option would be nice.

Even as a melee, this nerf is pretty noticeable in potd.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

All these spoiled casters complaining about a longer cooldown. You've already had it easy all this time! I'm just happy to be able to sprint without having to pop Invigorate afterwards.

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So would you be OK with them adding a cast time for every melee skill like they did with BRD, because melee have been spoiled all this time?

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

I vote they cut the cooldown in half, and cut the duration in half.

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I'm on board for that, most of the sprinting I do is over shorter distances, especially in instances.

I wanted it and I'm happy that I can now sprint in combat as melee job. Really helps against enemy aoe.

I thought I'd get used to it, but after 4 years of having only a 30 second cooldown, everything now just feels so slow.

Admittedly I do usually play as a DoM so I've always been able to sprint in combat and miss that I can't do it as much, but outside of combat, gathering and walking round in stealth is torture and walking round towns (especially Kugane!) feels insanely slow.

I'm trying to use the city teleports as much as I can, but when something is only one teleport away (and I'm not actually right next to an aetheryte), normally I'd just run to wherever as that'd be faster than going to teleport, selecting destination, waiting for the actual teleport, etc.

I've actually ended up making a "Town" gearset which equips Hermes' Shoes so I at least get 30 seconds of sprint instead of 20, but it still feels slow waiting the other 30 seconds and that won't help out most of the player base who won't have those shoes. I also tend to only remember to change to that gearset AFTER I've already hit sprint so it doesn't help until the cooldown finishes.

The simplest solution (to me anyway?) is if they're concerned about keeping balance, just leave it at 60 seconds in dungeons/instances (DoM will have to adapt), but anywhere else, leave it at the original 30 seconds. Does it really matter if Melee DPS can sprint every 30 seconds whilst in battle in a fate for example? Personally I would say not.

Seems people are not happy about the open world sprint but ok or liking the in instance/combat sprint.

Easy solution?

Make sprint up-gradable in the open world, the same way they did mount speed. But rather than speed, you can upgrade the duration.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

The simplest solution (to me anyway?) is if they're concerned about keeping balance, just leave it at 60 seconds in dungeons/instances (DoM will have to adapt), but anywhere else, leave it at the original 30 seconds. Does it really matter if Melee DPS can sprint every 30 seconds whilst in battle in a fate for example? Personally I would say not.

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i would not mind this. i see little benefit sprint could have outside of dungeons, but to the open world, new sprint just feels far too limited. it would also be a lot easier to manage for the devs, but my personal favorite alternative would be to give us back 30 seconds and see how it would work out. in theory, literally no one, or a lot less people, would argue.

Gathering.

in HW and later it's quicker to mount.
In ARB who cares there is little worth while.

Well, couldn't they make it where!
1. While in combat it is what it is now,
2. While out of combat, it could be what it was before.

And anyone now with sprint the way it is now should try to do the jump for
ARR Sightseeing Log #9 - The Leatherworker's Guild Old Gridania (x12,y8) (and upload a video if make the jump again.)
I can't make this stupid jump and it will be the last one I need soon.
I'm also on PS4, tried NIN didn't help yet, and the jump is always short and low.
I've seen videos and I don't think I'm doing anything all that different either.

Sprint is fine and is limited towards dungeons and raids, use your mounts if you need to go from one point to another, takes only a second or two to mount up and run/fly to whatever you want.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

Sprint is fine and is limited towards dungeons and raids, use your mounts if you need to go from one point to another, takes only a second or two to mount up and run/fly to whatever you want.

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It isn't only limited to dungeons and raids, it is needed in cities, and for stupid jump puzzles! :mad:

Really try this jump again for RR Sightseeing Log #9 - The Leatherworker's Guild! And anyone that has made this jump before try it again especially on the PS4, not just on a PS4 Pro either or maybe both, and upload a video.

And some gathers use sprint while gathering and also use mounts nobody is that stupid not to.