Transfer Restrictions and Roleplayers

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

Maybe I'd be nice if you guys weren't showing just how childish and ridiculous you are. How are we to know you don't act like this in your RPs? Because if this is how you act over a temporary ban on world transfer... geez.

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How exactly am I acting O.o? Have you read any of my posts or are you just lashing out at Balmung RP'ers out of some personal grudge? You're not doing Mateus any favors behaving like this.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Will the Balmung RP community move to the new server though?

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As long as the proper incentives are there, Balmung RPers have no reason not to.

The main reason people aren't willing to transfer is the dollar cost and the loss of assets like houses and airships.

Free transfers to a designated server with a guarantee that all assets are preserved or otherwise adequately reimbursed, and Balmung RPers have only things to gain by transferring off.

Less queue times, more centralised RP community, less griefing (probably), better server stability due to lower population, more open housing since we're not competing with non-RPers, etc.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

While I'm not in any real bandwagon rush to leave or move or stay, you realize that indefinitely means possibly to an infinite or an unspecified amount of time? It's not a fixed time. Stabilization of Balmung's population could take a week, a month, or even years. Or if no one transfers, never.

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'Active' character population.

People come and go all the time from the game. People deal with RL stuff and stop paying their sub for long periods of time. Again, I don't see it taking years. I see it taking a few months before the mass rush of people who used to play come back, try Stormblood, and then disappear again.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Because they had friends that we planning to transfer in after the datacenter move and those friends ended up being locked out by the surprise change.

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Unfortunate. Yet it's not much different to similar real world scenarios. If a restaurant is full, you might be able to squeeze a few more people inside. At some point, though, the restaurant simply cannot take any more people without there being major issues and risks involved. The same thing can be said about Balmung and Gilgamesh. Character creation has already been locked on both servers outside of some very rare windows of opportunity. To get around that, people began transferring over - and now as a consequence that option is being shut down for the sake of both server's health.

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Originally Posted by Marluxia

As long as the proper incentives are there, Balmung RPers have no reason not to.

The main reason people aren't willing to transfer is the dollar cost and the loss of assets like houses and airships.

Free transfers to a designated server with a guarantee that all assets are preserved or otherwise adequately reimbursed, and Balmung RPers have only things to gain by transferring off.

Less queue times, more centralised RP community, less griefing (probably), better server stability due to lower population, more open housing since we're not competing with non-RPers, etc.

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If that's is the case then that probably is the best option for SE, however the impression I've gotten from a lot of these treads is that people won't leave (and expect the non-RP population of Balmung to be removed) which gives me doubts about the viability of a new RP server.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

If that's is the case then that probably is the best option for SE, however the impression I've gotten from a lot of these treads is that people won't leave (and expect the non-RP population of Balmung to be removed) which gives me doubts about the viability of a new RP server.

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At that point it's more or less the responsibility of the RP community to further incentivise the move by moving themselves in the wake of an RP-designated server with sufficient transfer incentives.

I mean, I'm certain that a few die-hard RPers or people who value PVE over RP will stay on Balmung, that much is inevitable. I think it's fruitless to convince every single person to move, just enough that the new RP-designated server has a self-sustaining population and can grow further.

In fact, I think it'd be worth keeping the transfer and character creation restriction on Balmung even after the RP-designated server (for like, a few weeks at most) just to make sure any flow of new RPers comes to the right server and Balmung can be left to the non-RPers.

I know for a fact that if an RP-designated server comes through with sufficient free transfer incentives, I will definitely be championing the cause of RPers consolidating on an officially designated RP server.

Please remember, we need to be polite to each other. Everyone has their reasons. My main has transferred to Mateus because the people who I didn't expect too were there in my time of need.

I still have an alt on Balmung who is there to care for her airships and some of my friends little corner of the world, but Mateus has been much warmer to me these days. That being said, Balmung still has people I consider family and I will go and visit to be near them as well.

Such harsh opinions hurts not only the server's reputation, but those of us who have characters on both, and the other side. There are reasons for everything people do, they are numerous. A little bit of empathy goes a long way.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

What is with you Balmung RPers and being so entitled? There's a pretty healthy RP communnity on Mateus and no one reacts like this. (But please, don't come to Mateus we don't want you here)

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I'm glad you're not the appointed ruler of Mateus; with all this "we" stuff.
This isn't for the people who are staying on Balmung (which majority likely are). This is Balmung and other servers who are on transfer-lock-down trying to HELP people who cannot get onto Balmung, Gilgamesh, etc. Trying to help other people get established in a place they can rp and be welcomed.

Since the beginning of FFXIV the idea of an RP server and which one it should be has been hotly debated. I really think it would have been great if SE had designated RP servers, much the same way that Blizzard has for WoW. I can't speak for the entire RP community (of course), but I think a lot of roleplayers would transfer to a designated RP server if given the opportunity. It would be nice if SE could recognize just how popular RP is and give us some additional housing to accommodate the community accordingly.

I have been on Balmung, Gilgamesh and Mateus at various times. Each community is different and has its own pros and cons, which is great because I think it's boring if everyone is the same :P They all have roleplayers who are creative, devoted and passionate about their stories. I don't think it's appropriate that people should belittle or bash on others. All the servers are good in their own ways. I, personally, will be RPing on Mateus and I hope to see you all there!

The eRPers won't leave, the raiders won't leave, and the none-of-the-aboves won't leave. Those servers are going to be locked for a looong time. Somebody mentioned housing transfers, housing will never transfer "as is" unless they switch to a fully instanced model, full refund is probably the best you will ever get. I have alts scattered all over the place, and I've tried the high pop servers. Couldn't stand the midtown lag. 500 people doing the manderville at the aetherite in limsa makes the whole instance crawl. If nobody will move maybe they need to just kill Balmung and turn the character screen into a server chooser.

Ultimately, this is now on the RPers to figure out what they are going to do.

Sitting around and not planning, not finding a new server to build a community on, will only hurt you. Balmung will remain locked for months, maybe even years. Your community will not grow, you can't make new alts nor risk deleting old ones. Things will stagnate, and the community will start to slowly die, while the PvE community will continue to do what they always do.

Start planning now, or you'll just tear your community apart and deal yourself irreparable damage. There is no official RP server, and if SE makes one, it will be a brand-new server you need to make new characters or transfer to.

Start planning a solution for your problem, and put in the work to make it succeed.

RP in this game is purely fan-made right now, so your solution will have to be as well.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Ultimately, this is now on the RPers to figure out what they are going to do.

Sitting around and not planning, not finding a new server to build a community on, will only hurt you. Balmung will remain locked for months, maybe even years. Your community will not grow, you can't make new alts nor risk deleting old ones. Things will stagnate, and the community will start to slowly die, while the PvE community will continue to do what they always do.

Start planning now, or you'll just tear your community apart and deal yourself irreparable damage. There is no official RP server, and if SE makes one, it will be a brand-new server you need to make new characters or transfer to.

Start planning a solution for your problem, and put in the work to make it succeed.

RP in this game is purely fan-made right now, so your solution will have to be as well.

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People already ahead of you here.

EDIT: Oh, how I don't miss you at all 1k character limit. How I don't miss you at all.

EDIT 2: Whoops. Forgot EU's doing something for a different server suggestion too.

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Originally Posted by LordTiberiusRex

People already ahead of you here.

EDIT: Oh, how I don't miss you at all 1k character limit. How I don't miss you at all.

EDIT 2: Whoops. Forgot EU's doing something for a different server suggestion too.

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Thanks for sharing. Glad some people are taking initiative.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

What is with you Balmung RPers and being so entitled? There's a pretty healthy RP communnity on Mateus and no one reacts like this. (But please, don't come to Mateus we don't want you here)

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LOL, what a standout response. I feel bad for all the reasonable people on Mateus now. Hope you guys get an influx of roleplayers from Balmung.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

There is no official RP server, and if SE makes one, it will be a brand-new server you need to make new characters or transfer to.

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I still think this is the ideal solution, as long as the transfers are free and no assets are lost.

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Originally Posted by Foofy

If it takes years and no one has RP communities on other servers then the RP communities themselves are at fault for this, not SE.

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Uhm? Are you truly trying to blame the people who want to join the big hub and not the ghost towns. You're on Balmung for a reason as well, so stop pointing fingers. By your logic you'd be part of the problem as well, being on Balmung. So just stop.

My only gripe at the moment is that SE has seen fit to already shut down transfers to High Population Servers, but NOT open up the free transfers OFF of them until June 20th.

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Originally Posted by Voison

So just help start a new role playing community on another server...?

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Pretty much this. Why do every NA player HAVE to go to Balmung? There may not be an official tag for RP server, but you can just make a server reputed for its RP by gathering people on it for this specific purpose. There's plenty of empty server waiting for inhabitants, why do you think they had to instore those restrictions? People complaining about queue to connect make me laught so hard when they chose the biggest server among all the other empty server.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Pretty much this. Why do every NA player HAVE to go to Balmung? There may not be an official tag for RP server, but you can just make a server reputed for its RP by gathering people on it for this specific purpose. There's plenty of empty server waiting for inhabitants, why do you think they had to instore those restrictions? People complaining about queue to connect make me laught so hard when they chose the biggest server among all the other empty server.

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I invite you to look at my explanation on page 6. Link to Post. Or alternatively on page 7. Link to post.

I hope that clears up the misunderstanding and convince you there is no such thing as 'just going on another server'. Tl:dr we need big communities to thrive, else we will die out.

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Originally Posted by Velynea

I invite you to look at my explanation on page 6. Or alternatively on page 7.

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Thank you for your well reasoned posts. Every prior attempt to create an alternative RP server has resulted in little more than a small 20-50 clique of players. This is because most RPers (like the person above) correctly realize that RPers require a vibrant, active community that can accommodate a diverse range of interests, RP styles, and content. Future attempts to create an alternative RP servers that amounts to something more than a small clique will likely fail as they have countless times before due to conflicting personal interests, disorganization, and a variety of other factors.

The server transfer restriction should be terminated immediately, or SE should at least disclose the specific date when it will be lifted.

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Originally Posted by Oaken

, or SE should at least disclose the specific date when it will be lifted.

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How in the world would they know when the population numbers will stabilize?

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Originally Posted by Aramina

How in the world would they know when the population numbers will stabilize?

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Whenever it hits the numbers they want.

If that doesn't seem like a good metric, it's because it isn't one.

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Originally Posted by Marluxia

Whenever it hits the numbers they want.

If that doesn't seem like a good metric, it's because it isn't one.

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Uh, it is actually the only metric that matters.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Uh, it is actually the only metric that matters.

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I mean, you're right, but what I'm saying is that "population" is not particularly precise.

Is SE measuring only the amount of characters on Balmung? The amount of active connections? The number of active characters based on the data that gets refreshed from the Lodestone? If people just stopped playing the game, would that tell Square that people are moving away from Balmung when they're really not just logging in any more?

I have no plans to transfer servers, but I approve of designating an official RP server and making transfers free. I see a couple of logistical issues though:

1. Extreme variation in server's economies and accumulated wealth. Paying 5-10 million gil for Item X on Server A might be common, whereas the going price on Server B might be 500,000-1 million or less. Allowing character transfers from a variety of servers along with all of their liquid assets will create a very unstable economy and cause folks from a low-cost server to no longer be able to purchase items due to extreme inflation.

2. What to do about housing? If two or three players who own a house in the same ward and same plot transfer over with all of their real estate, who's going to end up getting the plot? Are the other players going to automatically get the same size plot in the same ward or the same plot in a different ward? What if there's nothing available when they transfer? They've just lost their house and any investments they've made into it.

Otherwise, I hope SE does create or designate an official RP server for y'all.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I have no plans to transfer servers, but I approve of designating an official RP server and making transfers free. I see a couple of logistical issues though:

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I can only see point 1 happening if everyone from Server A moved to Server B, instead of spreading out into Server C, D, E, etc.. If all the people that decided to move did spread out into all the servers, their impact on each of ther other server's market will be minimal, and they'll most like adjust to it then the market adjusting to them.

For point 2, and this is only a prediction, but I suspect that SE will consider creating new Wards for all the worlds, and if a person that owns a house In Ward 5, plot 5 transfers servers, but there is already a house in that same plot, they would most likely be set up in the new ward instead. At least, that's how I would do it if I had the resources to do so.

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Originally Posted by Oaken

Thank you for your well reasoned posts. Every prior attempt to create an alternative RP server has resulted in little more than a small 20-50 clique of players. This is because most RPers (like the person above) correctly realize that RPers require a vibrant, active community that can accommodate a diverse range of interests, RP styles, and content.

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Both of you are misunderstanding why those attempts have failed. The $18 transfer fee per person is the primary reason that the large seed groups that are needed to create a stable RP groups are unwilling/unable to transfer away from Balmung. It costs $18 for 1 characters, $900 for 50 characters, $4,500 for 250 characters, and $18,000 for 1000 characters. As the total rises players are less able to justify the fee.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Both of you are misunderstanding why those attempts have failed. The $18 transfer fee per person is the primary reason that the large seed groups that are needed to create a stable RP groups are unwilling/unable to transfer away from Balmung. It costs $18 for 1 characters, $900 for 50 characters, $4,500 for 250 characters, and $18,000 for 1000 characters. As the total rises players are less able to justify the fee.

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Well it's not just the fees. If you don't have a large enough populated amount of groups in the community, eventually a group of 200 players will end up stagnating. Like, 7 FCs of 30 people with a total of 4 linkshells isn't able to sustain a large variety of people without starting to see a type of cannibalizing effect because of stagnation.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Both of you are misunderstanding why those attempts have failed. The $18 transfer fee per person is the primary reason that the large seed groups that are needed to create a stable RP groups are unwilling/unable to transfer away from Balmung. It costs $18 for 1 characters, $900 for 50 characters, $4,500 for 250 characters, and $18,000 for 1000 characters. As the total rises players are less able to justify the fee.

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Quite exaggerating on XIV can only have 40 characters max per account anyways. Sorry they have all 40 characters slot filled (8 per server) but it only $18 per transfer and can do all the characters that are on the same server and transfer them to the same new server for the one price.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Both of you are misunderstanding why those attempts have failed. The $18 transfer fee per person is the primary reason that the large seed groups that are needed to create a stable RP groups are unwilling/unable to transfer away from Balmung.

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Plus the fact that you lose a good chunk of your gil, your house, all of your current IC connections and plotlines, etc...

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Quite exaggerating on XIV can only have 40 characters max per account anyways. Sorry they have all 40 characters slot filled (8 per server) but it only $18 per transfer and can do all the characters that are on the same server and transfer them to the same new server for the one price.

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That was not what I meant.

If a 250 character FC with the same number of unique players wanted to transfer it would cost the group $4,500 dollars to move if there is an $18 fee.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Plus the fact that you lose a good chunk of your gil, your house, all of your current IC connections and plotlines, etc...

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Several of those factors can be mostly mitigated by whomever else is moving. You wouldn't lose your IC connections and plotlines if most of your play group is moving.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

The $18 transfer fee per person is the primary reason that the large seed groups that are needed to create a stable RP groups are unwilling/unable to transfer away from Balmung.

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Meanwhile, new players transfer TO Balmung in large quantities, rather than joining some of the smaller groups on the other servers.

Balmung hasn't exactly been accessible without transfers for a long while now. What do you think communities on other servers would look if people had went there in that time, rather than transferring? Bigger, that's for sure. They didn't do that, though. They rather transferred. So I'm pretty sure that the main issue isn't the cost (new players didn't have to transfer), but the critical mass.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Meanwhile, new players transfer TO Balmung in large quantities, rather than joining some of the smaller groups on the other servers.

Balmung hasn't exactly been accessible without transfers for a long while now. What do you think communities on other servers would look if people had went there in that time, rather than transferring? Bigger, that's for sure. They didn't do that, though. They rather transferred. So I'm pretty sure that the main issue isn't the cost (new players didn't have to transfer), but the critical mass.

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I know more than a few people who transferred specifically because things happened on whatever server they were on and rather than try starting fresh on a small server, the more sensible option has always been transferring to Balmung. It's largely what killed roleplay on Gilgamesh.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Several of those factors can be mostly mitigated by whomever else is moving. You wouldn't lose your IC connections and plotlines if most of your play group is moving.

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For people who are very much linked into the community, this would require moving almost the entirety of the main Balmung RP community. As things have stood so far, that's simply not possible. Even with the incentives SE is going to offer, without zero gil limit and the ability to preserve housing, I bet it will be a hard sell.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Meanwhile, new players transfer TO Balmung in large quantities, rather than joining some of the smaller groups on the other servers.

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Yes, individuals and small groups are willing to put up with the $18 migration fee to improve playlife, but the reverse isn't really true which caused Balmung to become a blackhole.

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Balmung hasn't exactly been accessible without transfers for a long while now. What do you think communities on other servers would look if people had went there in that time, rather than transferring? Bigger, that's for sure. They didn't do that, though. They rather transferred. So I'm pretty sure that the main issue isn't the cost (new players didn't have to transfer), but the critical mass.

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Its not a new player immigration issue, but the inability for older groups to emigrate away from Balmung effectively. The "critical mass" needed to create a new RP colony isn't able to leave effectively.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

For people who are very much linked into the community, this would require moving almost the entirety of the main Balmung RP community. As things have stood so far, that's simply not possible. Even with the incentives SE is going to offer, without zero gil limit and the ability to preserve housing, I bet it will be a hard sell.

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Considering Dunbar's number, I believe that Balmung is a lot less solidly connected than you think.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Considering Dunbar's number, I believe that Balmung is a lot less solidly connected than you think.

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Consider 150 people for each person, with many overlapping... that is a highly intertwined community where one person's leaving can have a cascade of effects on RP.

I'm quite familiar with Balmung's rp community. I was a member of it for over two years and only started fresh on a new server because I stopped roleplaying in-game (only do FFXIV rp in skype/forums now). It's definitely tight-knit with a solid core of players that support each other and housing hubs that people have spent tens of millions of gil on. A new server has none of that.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Consider 150 people for each person, with many overlapping... that is a highly intertwined community where one person's leaving can have a cascade of effects on RP.

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Almost like RL

http://dailynewsdig.com/wp-content/u...at-Memes-3.jpg

It makes sense though. Remember when HW launch and Balmung had insane queue times just to log into the game.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Almost like RL

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Indeed. That's essentially what roleplay is - a model of real human relationships.

So you should understand that uprooting people is asking a lot, especially when SE can't seem to offer a complete transfer.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Consider 150 people for each person, with many overlapping... that is a highly intertwined community where one person's leaving can have a cascade of effects on RP.

I'm quite familiar with Balmung's rp community. I was a member of it for over two years and only started fresh on a new server because I stopped roleplaying in-game (only do FFXIV rp in skype/forums now). It's definitely tight-knit with a solid core of players that support each other and housing hubs that people have spent tens of millions of gil on. A new server has none of that.

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The many overlapping part is what makes things less solid than you think. It is not one solid community of 26k active characters but closer to 26 1k communities loosely connected.

The groups most solidly connected to the server (i.e. have houses and direct connections to those with houses) are unlikely to leave while those that are more loosely connected are more likely to transfer away.