"At the moment we are working to get rid of the gender lock for bunny suits for men."

Adire, it's not your opinions that make you come across as bigoted, but rather the extraordinarily rude and aggressive why you seem to feel the need to express them in. If you'd take a break from huffing and puffing, you'd notice that quite a few people have expressed dissenting opinions in a civil manner, and been treated civilly in return; the reason you're finding yourself getting attacked is because you yourself came into the topic sounding like you were trying to pick a fight.


Also, I don't care if Raubahn's kilt is historically accurate, by today's standards if someone wore it, it would be considered a miniskirt, therefore it should be just as uncomfortable and immersion-breaking as a guy in a regular skirt (which would not look significantly different anyway), given that your argument against that was based on modern standards. You can't give two opposing arguments for things that are functionally the same without expecting people to poke holes in them.

Or is it just the name 'skirt' or 'dress' that you're hung up on? Would it help your immersion if they just called the skirts 'kilts', and the dresses 'robes' when equipped on male characters? I don't see the point when those things are basically the same, but if the more masculine nomenclature would help to ease your discomfort, I'll happily support it.



Though for the record, I'm not especially keen on skirts on guys myself; it's just not my aesthetic most of the time (I find shorts much sexier AND more practical on both genders). But I do want those fishnets very badly, and I want the same number of glamour options as female characters get.

It is funny, though, that male characters actually have plenty of skirts to choose from, and most of the female-only items are NOT ACTUALLY SKIRTS, isn't it? I think the Spring set is the only one, in fact, since the High House set has a direct, male-only equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Texa

The issue with trans people have with crossdressing largely boils down to dragshows and other media that feature dragqueens delegitimatizing the transgender identity, experience, and struggle

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I hope this isn't a wide belief amongst the trans community. Drag Queens have played a massive role in the LGBTQ community as a whole, and it'd be terrible if they were tossed aside by "the most oppressed" members of the group because they didn't meet their narrative anymore.

Drag Queens =/= Cross Dressing =/= Transgendered. They're all seperate concepts.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TOO. ITS THEIR GAME.

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Careful, that door swings both ways.

It's 2017 and we're still bothered by other peoples' dress choices.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Careful, that door swings both ways.

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For better or worse it will always swing both ways.
SE decided to give guys a bunny glam. SE also decided to not remove the native american costume.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Rennies

It's 2017 and we're still bothered by other peoples' dress choices.

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In a video game, no less.

I read a doujin like this, once

I think it's a very sad reflection on society as a whole, that in a fantasy based video game we can maim and slaughter as many people as we care to, using any weapon imaginable and no one blinks an eye. Yet someone wants bunny ears and fish nets for their male character and all hell breaks loose... :confused:

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Originally Posted by Parisstilton

I think it's a very sad reflection on society as a whole, that in a fantasy based video game we can maim and slaughter as many people as we care to, using any weapon imaginable and no one blinks an eye. Yet someone wants bunny ears and fish nets for their male character and all hell breaks loose... :confused:

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There is a difference between someone holding a weapon and someone wearing something considered for female player characters... Some people will find it disturbing simple as. It may be fantasy based but people are still playing the game and i'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to see something like that while they play their game.

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Originally Posted by Remus

There is a difference between someone holding a weapon and someone wearing something considered for female player characters... Some people will find it disturbing simple as. It may be fantasy based but people are still playing the game and i'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to see something like that while they play their game.

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I'm sorry but it still baffles me how it is acceptable to some people to basically murder people in a game BECAUSE it's just a game but those same people can't see a male in a skirt BECAUSE it's just a game!
I mean if you can't break all the real life rules and do stuff you wouldn't in real life what's the point of a game in the first place?
This genuinely isn't a troll.I truly just want to understand how this can really bother people so much

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Originally Posted by Remus

There is a difference between someone holding a weapon and someone wearing something considered for female player characters... Some people will find it disturbing simple as. It may be fantasy based but people are still playing the game and i'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to see something like that while they play their game.

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We already have supposedly homosexual characters and Haurchefant is pretty open to everything (hue) in JP localization. FFXI had Mayakov, so it's not new for a Final Fantasy MMO to have more "eccentric" characters. Whether or "some people will find it disturbing", well, that's the game they're already playing.

Not everyone is "average" and it makes the game more interesting IMO.

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Originally Posted by Remus

There is a difference between someone holding a weapon and someone wearing something considered for female player characters... Some people will find it disturbing simple as. It may be fantasy based but people are still playing the game and i'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to see something like that while they play their game.

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There are plenty of people playing whose lives have been negatively impacted by violence of some kind and they have to see the glorification of violence and weaponry in Eorzean adventurer culture (not to mention the frequent references to sexual violence and rape in the English localisation). There are also plenty of people playing from conservative backgrounds who are likely all-out shocked by the constant parade of women in eroticised gear like the bunny set and some other popular glamours, but they hold their tongues because there's a perception that 'fan service' content aimed at the straight male gaze is more acceptable than its counterpart aimed at those who appreciate the male form.

Personally, I find it disturbing that an obvious bias exists at all in such an open, inclusive game in the first place, and I don't believe it has ever been the creators' deliberate intent to let this situation happen the way it has; they've generally been deeply accommodating to the 'female gaze' and created a refreshingly relaxed in-game world where everyone can feel welcome. I have a lot of sympathy for the example raised of (especially MtF) trans people who struggle with the sight of people taking what they perceive to be their own struggles with the gender binary and turning it into part of their entertainment, but ultimately this particular issue isn't about trans people (we can freely choose our character's gender) or even crossdressing in the first place (we aren't even asking for an exact clone of the ladies' set and crossdressing has long been possible within FFXIV). They're important issues in society, of course, but in this case I don't see how it matters whether the vulnerabilities of some trans people might justify restricting the freedom of some genderqueer people in case other people might be after the new outfits for the wrong reasons, because it's got nothing to do with the actual thread. In the same way, those with a problem with the ongoing situation with excessive sexualisation of female characters in gaming (which items like the bunny costumes perpetuate) are perfectly entitled to feel that way, but it would be an irrelevant point to bring up in this particular topic and if we don't want anyone to be able to appreciate bodies of any shape or size in sexy clothing I'm afraid that ship sailed a long, long time ago. These complaints should have been raised and debated back when the actual costumes were first being requested.

All this is about is about male characters having a fair counterpart to the female-only bunny costumes as we were promised was coming.

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Originally Posted by Parisstilton

I'm sorry but it still baffles me how it is acceptable to some people to basically murder people in a game BECAUSE it's just a game but those same people can't see a male in a skirt BECAUSE it's just a game!
I mean if you can't break all the real life rules and do stuff you wouldn't in real life what's the point of a game in the first place?
This genuinely isn't a troll.I truly just want to understand how this can really bother people so much

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It's largely because many of us were taught from a very young age that boys shouldn't like feminine things. Like, girls can be super into football and LEGO sets that aren't made to pander to them and it's usually viewed positively. But if a boy wants to play with dolls or he wants to dance ballet it's viewed as being creepy or a sign that he's not straight. I used to work at a big retail store, and I'd see little boys who genuinely wanted princess toys all of the time. Their parents would always shoot them down and make them get a "boy" toy instead and it'd make them really upset.
For some people that way of thinking can be so strong that they can't engage and suspend their disbelief in media that let men enjoy traditionally feminine things.

It's just that ingrained into them that if a man wants to be cute or pretty there's something wrong with him and the narrative at large.

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Originally Posted by Remus

There is a difference between someone holding a weapon and someone wearing something considered for female player characters... Some people will find it disturbing simple as. It may be fantasy based but people are still playing the game and i'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to see something like that while they play their game.

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So because some will find it disturbing, it should never be in the game, ever? I wonder how many people I disturb with my glamour (which is pretty much a leather daddy glamour)...

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Originally Posted by Remus

There is a difference between someone holding a weapon and someone wearing something considered for female player characters... Some people will find it disturbing simple as. It may be fantasy based but people are still playing the game and i'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to see something like that while they play their game.

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There's this thing called a camera, you turn it away from things you don't want to see.

I think you guys are getting it wrong.

The bunny costume originated being a woman costume in real life, and that's why they made it for women characters here in FFXIV.
There's no homophobia or prejudices involved here.

The problem is devtime, because if they make it for everybody they should double the devtime. That's all. There's not a conspiracy against your rights or an alligator misoginistic god that controls SE.


Remember that with this mindset you'll find everything problematic, because if SE releases the bunny costume for men, then you'll ask for panties, bra, or even genitals like that Conan game.
Relax, nobody is against you. https://puu.sh/tLeoD/3c1fdc7529.png

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

The bunny costume originated being a woman costume in real life, and that's why they made it for women characters here in FFXIV.

The problem is devtime, because if they make it for everybody they should double the devtime. That's all. There's not a conspiracy against your rights or an alligator misoginistic god that controls SE.

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What. I can't even get mad because of the picture :S

Oh wait, I can. The devtime complaint is no problem; a tiny minority of other players are the ones with issues, not S-E who are already making this new outfit for us. Doubling the devtime for new glamour outfits - if that's what's needed to let everyone use them - is just how the game is made; should they only make sexy new glamours for Miqo'te and Au Ra girls to save time because not many people play Roegadyn in comparison? That would be a huge mistake, just like making a bunch of female-only glamours was a huge mistake. If they can't afford to release as many glamours without leaving half their playerbase out, that's a problem which needs addressing in a better way than leaving the same half of their playerbase out each time and hoping nobody will notice.

The bunny costume is chiefly worn by women in real life, yes. But guys can (and do) wear sexy costumes too in real life. Furthermore, bunny ears and tails actually originated with real life bunnies, which date back a lot longer than sexualised fetish costumes for women. I don't see a problem.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

The bunny costume is chiefly worn by women in real life, yes. But guys can (and do) wear sexy costumes too in real life. Furthermore, bunny ears and tails actually originated with real life bunnies, which date back a lot longer than sexualised fetish costumes for women. I don't see a problem.

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Nobody stops you to make a female character or change it with Fantasia.

And I understand everybody wants similar costumes as female characters, and I want it too, but I can understand that it was intended for a female role too, just like Minfilia costume is for female characters and Cid for male. And yeah, a male could wear Minfilia's clothing for example, but that would change the meaning of it.

Or (spoilerish) for example, the scene where Hildibrand wears a women's dress wouldn't have the same meaning/impact if everybody else could wear it. Opening some doors closes others, and we should just accept how this game is done.
Of course we can shout our opinions and stuff, but there's no need to be irrational, offended or exaggerated over everything.

And bunny ears and tails actually originated with cells, which date back a lot longer than little bunnies and sexualised fetish costumes for women!

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Nobody stops you to make a female character or change it with Fantasia.

And bunny ears and tails actually originated with cells, which date back a lot longer than little bunnies and sexualised fetish costumes for women!

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When did I ever say I wanted to play a female character? I like being male and want to stay male. I just want to be a guy who has the same access to the glamour action as my friends with female characters. We're not complaining about outfits where the guys get their own different (but locked) equivalent in this thread.

We can already wear wolf tails and succubus horns (succubi - unlike bunnies - are actually female by definition). So again, I don't see why certain types of fluffy tails and animal bodyparts are the exclusive domain of female characters. And even if they are, that's fine. Give us a male-exclusive fox/bear/anything outfit instead if specifically wearing rabbit ears will damage anyone's delicate sensibilities. Call it a Hare set rather than a Bunny set. I don't care. There are plenty of options here and most of them are better than having no equivalent glamour sets at all.

(Edit: If they do give us a different set - let's say a bear set, for the sake of example - I guarantee that within seconds of the reveal there will be a petition on this very forum with female characters demanding they unlock it. So it would be much simpler for everyone if they just give us the bunny ears they already modelled. Seriously.)

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Nobody stops you to make a female character or change it with Fantasia.

Of course we can shout our opinions and stuff, but there's no need to be irrational, offended or exaggerated over everything.

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But I don't want to play a female character, I want to play a male, and I want to dress him up to be sexy.

And the only people getting irrational or offended are the ones coming in here to complain that how I dress my character might potentially offend them, so I shouldn't be allowed to do what I like.

Could I make a polite request that people who want to disagree about the topic (which is simply asking about the timeframe for an item the game's developers have openly teased in the past, nothing that I would normally think needs 15 pages of heated debate...) actually read what the pro-bunny people are saying instead of inventing some agenda and accusing us of being hyper-sensitive deviants who want to destroy the fabric of society now it looks as though we might eventually be getting something nice? Most of the hysterical anger is based on things nobody has actually said in this topic, invented by people looking for an excuse to be angry about men being harmlessly excited about novelty bunny ears. We've done the whole 'use a fantasia!' and 'crossdressing is wrong!' debates dozens of times by this point.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

The problem is devtime, because if they make it for everybody they should double the devtime. That's all. There's not a conspiracy against your rights or an alligator misoginistic god that controls SE.

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It wouldn't be devtime, really. They already stated they have female developers exclusively making the male version of the bunny gear, which implies that the female version was made exclusively by male developers. And the rights and the misogyny did not originate from SE themselves, let alone the fact that misogyny and rights have nothing to do with the situation at hand, not even misandry does. It's the fact that female players have had their share of GS 'risque' bunny gear, but males have not had theirs yet and it has been promised for a long time. Here's hoping it is implemented in 3.55.

And I believe it needs to be stated one more time, there's nothing wrong with a male character wearing feminine clothes, nor is there anything wrong with a male character wanting to be as sexy as the ladies of the GS. Equality, people!

They can put out many new clothing and conceptart for the chinese/korean game (its beeing made by SE too, even if its requested by the publishers of the other countries) but they cant finally put the stuff players are asking for glamour over here... :/

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

The bunny costume originated being a woman costume in real life, and that's why they made it for women characters here in FFXIV.
There's no homophobia or prejudices involved here.

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The complaining comes from not getting an equivalent from the get go. The rest of the stuff pops up only when someone decides to make it a ITS UNNATURAL SO ITS WRONG thing.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

The problem is devtime, because if they make it for everybody they should double the devtime. That's all.

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http://i.imgur.com/C1DqH6G.png

If this was worth devtime, a male casino bunny set was/still is a valid use of devtime.

I like the gender restrictions on gear. While I wouldn't mind seeing a Chippendale esque outfit for males, simply copying over one of the bunny sets wouldn't look right.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

http://i.imgur.com/C1DqH6G.png

If this was worth devtime, a male casino bunny set was/still is a valid use of devtime.

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http://i.imgur.com/rIoorsE.gif

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

... simply copying over one of the bunny sets wouldn't look right.

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I brought it up before, but here's the Aion bunny costume for men.

http://aionpowerbook.com/preview/arm...neybunny_1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

I brought it up before, but here's the Aion bunny costume for men.

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A bit like how I imagine our male bunny set to be. Except it would be better with trousers instead of fishnets like the chippendales pics you can find on google.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

A bit like how I imagine our male bunny set to be. Except it would be better with trousers instead of fishnets like the chippendales pics you can find on google.

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I disagree. I believe the point is for gender equality. Women get fishnets, men get them. But it's still modified to fit their form instead of slapping the female outfit onto them. Now, I'd be all for it.. cause gawd yes catbois in more tight clothes. Realistically though, I see the equality in design and care would please more people. However, I will agree with the trousers if it were a matter of armor and a similar look.

Going back to Aion again (because they kept quite a grip on my female gaze before I discovered XIV) the men can wear pants and still keep the sexiness of the design. The women are showing more skin obviously, but both sides are clearly glazed in sex appeal.

http://i.imgur.com/LaCg9am.jpg

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

http://i.imgur.com/LaCg9am.jpg

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I'll take the guy in the chain gear, kay thanks. <3

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

I disagree. I believe the point is for gender equality. Women get fishnets, men get them.

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I also think equality is a good thing but more in the sense that men should also get something that's considered conventionally attractive and sexy on a guy. Bare chest, nailed it. (And that's something girls don't have in their bunny outfit!) Fishnets, nope. I'm not a native speaker but I believe the word that suits my view better than equality is equity. Totally different clothes can portray the same style on the genders. Like the wedding dress and suit.

https://cdn1.publichealthonline.gwu....VsEquality.png

Put it this way. If all the, 'Unisex,' sets that had been added were suddenly turned Male Only, even the gloves and boots, how upset would players of female characters be? They'd feel their options for transmog had been cut in half. They'd be right too. This is what players of male characters go through.

I really don't have an issue with keeping Female things female only, so long as there are male only things in exchange. I really don't care if a woman -could- wear that, its about equality.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

I brought it up before, but here's the Aion bunny costume for men.

http://aionpowerbook.com/preview/arm...neybunny_1.jpg

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omg, is that a man in fishnets?!?!?! I"m soooo uncomfortable. The forums are forever ruined me. Thanks a lot.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I also think equality is a good thing but more in the sense that men should also get something that's considered conventionally attractive and sexy on a guy. Bare chest, nailed it. (And that's something girls don't have in their bunny outfit!) Fishnets, nope.

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I disagree on the grounds that we already have multiple 'leather pants' type pieces available for male characters, at least two of which are not class locked, but no fishnet type pieces available. This is a true tragedy which needs to be resolved at the earliest possible opportunity.

I personally find the suspenders a bit on the boring side, though considering some of the imaginative approaches we've seen to male 'top pieces' for outfits that would normally be shirtless, I'm sure the FF designers could make even plain suspenders fancy and interesting. Maybe we'll get more tattoos! (Though a little part of me really kinda wants something more or less the same as the female version, because RHPS cosplay and the inevitable some-group-or-other on Balmung doing an in-game production of it would be grand!)

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I disagree on the grounds that we already have multiple 'leather pants' type pieces available for male characters, at least two of which are not class locked, but no fishnet type pieces available.

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This is true. I have theee pairs of leather pants in my armoury chest at all times and they cover most of my current glamour needs nicely as-is. I would prefer a unique style (some kind of chaps could work) or sexy leather shorts, either like the Aion ones or very slightly looser since we have a few skintight shorts already. A variant (like the bunny chief variants) which then adds fishnets would be absolute perfection. Similarly, a choice of bare chest with collar or suspenders with collar would be great, or some kind of weird FF-style sexy shirt of the kind only S-E designers could come up with.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I disagree on the grounds that we already have multiple 'leather pants' type pieces available for male characters

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But none of them have a bunny tail on the butt.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

I brought it up before, but here's the Aion bunny costume for men.

http://aionpowerbook.com/preview/arm...neybunny_1.jpg

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Yeah, I'd definitely glamour as that for awhile.

Hell, I just posted on the Roe forum my chippendale glamour, so I'm even more for the fishnets.

http://i.imgur.com/HRTIoSy.png

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Originally Posted by Adire

. Using catboys as my example sure, but on Balmung

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That's the root of your problem to begin with

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

omg, is that a man in fishnets?!?!?! I"m soooo uncomfortable. The forums are forever ruined me. Thanks a lot.

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That's a normal Saturday night sight where I'm from (and I'm not talking about Balmung lol)

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

But none of them have a bunny tail on the butt.

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Well, given that female characters got two variations on the set, maybe we'll get one with shorts and fishnets and one with leather pants. Though I'd personally prefer two sets of shorts, with and without the fishnets, this would also be acceptable.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

The problem is devtime, because if they make it for everybody they should double the devtime. That's all.

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Yes, it's about dev time, and that's the problem. The problem lies in their decision that one half of their playerbase is consistently entitled to more of their developers' time than the other half of the playerbase. If they don't have time to make something for everyone, then they shouldn't have wasted devtime on making the thing in the first place.

At the very least, it should alternate:
"Ok, we don't have enough time left to design a complete outfit for everyone, so who got it last time? The women did? Ok, well then this time it will be the men who get an exclusive outfit and we won't take the time to port it over to female characters. The women can get their turn again next time this comes up."

But that's not what we're seeing. They always take the time needed to make everything available to female characters. They don't give those of us who play male characters that same consideration.

(In cases like this and the Thavnarian set, where it's specifically about sexy gear, that bias can be accurately described as misogynistic, since it's about providing fanservice to their male customers while deliberately excluding it from their female ones. In most other cases, where it could equally affect both genders of players, it's simply favoritism, but isn't any more justifiable for that.)