I am disappointed with Deep Dungeon

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Originally Posted by bass9020

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This is a false statement, in fact, when Palace of the Dead was first announced at PAX East, it was mentioned that this would be content for people of all levels to enjoy. One thing people appear to forget, the reason why the entry level is 17 is for people of all levels to play together. Many of us have invited friends to play, but any time we try to do things with them. It isn't fun running the lowbie dungeons repeatedly as a level 60 nor is it fun to run around helping them with FATEs as a level 60 in 2.0 zones. This content was designed to give an even playing field for players in this situation.

Please go to 52:20 for proof.

Looking Heavensward - PAX East 2016

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Originally Posted by Cnidarian

This is a false statement, in fact, when Palace of the Dead was first announced at PAX East, it was mentioned that this would be content for people of all levels to enjoy. One thing people appear to forget, the reason why the entry level is 17 is for people of all levels to play together. Many of us have invited friends to play, but any time we try to do things with them. It isn't fun running the lowbie dungeons repeatedly as a level 60 nor is it fun to run around helping them with FATEs as a level 60 in 2.0 zones. This content was designed to give an even playing field for players in this situation.

Please go to 52:20 for proof.

Looking Heavensward - PAX East 2016

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Fair enough. I guess I assumed it was shown off as something different I don't know why. But we all know what happens when you ASSume. Thanks for linking this, I will refrain from saying that from now on.

Deep Dungeon looked like it was based on Nyzul Isle. It has a lot of things in common with Nyzul Isle. But why is it so much worse than Nyzul Isle? Treasures of Aht Urgan came out 10 years ago for FFXI. How is it that a decade later that they make the same general concept of content again but do it worse in every conceivable way but one (leveling jobs in there)? The main problem with XIV's content for combat classes is that it always is designed with a lowest common denominator approach to the point where it's only about fighting mobs. Look at what Diadem could have been, and look at what it ended up as. Look at what Nyzul Isle was, and look at what Deep Dungeon ended up as. It's just the same thing as regular dungeons with some randomness thrown in. There's nothing interesting about "kill things that are blocking your progress."

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/N..._Investigation

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I kind of wonder if we're playing the same content, because I had to think on what to focus and what items to use pretty much the whole time.

Of course like I said earlier, I've done it with all dps, and then all dps and 1 healer, so.

Also solo or 2 manning it requires a bit of thought as well. Try different party comps for a more enjoyable experience.

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Doing any party setup that isn't a traditional one will always make something more interesting for better or worse. It is kind of a moot point.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

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In interviews they said this dungeon was based on games like Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon which they specifically mentioned as a point of reference. I think they also mentioned somewhere but can't remember where that this is a nostalgic throwback to the old FF games of the past, even the character icons are in the style old nostalgic FF toons as is the UI for it. If you have evidence of them saying at any stage it was based on Nyzul Isle I would be willing to take a look but it wouldn't be much of a nostalgic throwback though if they made it overly complex compared to how those old games were.

Its dreadfully boring in the lower levels and I already see people pretty much speeding running the lower levels by killing enough mobs to advance to the next floor. They don't bother with the rooms or chests.

I can see why, though, since lower level rooms won't (or have a low chance) of upgrading their aetherpol gear. I don't mind too much since my gear level is also high, but it might bother those who wish to upgrade gear and/or get sherds.

I will reserve my full opinion for the content till I see higher levels in upcoming patches. Lower level may be intentionally like this to ease you in. For what I have played so far, it is just boring. Simple as that. Hopefully there will be more to it on Floor 51-100.

I don't know why people are so fixated on puzzles being one of the magical bullets that is going to make the palace better. Considering that every floor is randomly generated, most of the puzzles would have to be watered down to make it usable everywhere. Regardless of how hard or easy the puzzles would be, it'd boil down to just looking for a guide to solve them faster and waste less time cause no one wants to run out the 60 minute time limit.

If the current floors seem easy now, it's not just for new players; the devs wanted everyone, regardless of character level or gear, to be able to play together and people had been wanting content of that nature for a while. They had to take into account not just current or new players, but players who are on the free trial and players who don't own Heavensward. Considering that POTD came out in a minor content patch, I didn't expect it to be anything major like Alexander. It's filler, but at least I have another option to go for tomestones instead of just grinding Aquapolis and Expert roulettes everyday.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Doing any party setup that isn't a traditional one will always make something more interesting for better or worse. It is kind of a moot point.

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Maybe, but the point still stands.

Even with a normal setup the item mechanics and stuff were very fun for me.

But like I said earlier, I actually like mystery dungeon-alikes. Think that is the biggest difference here, this genre of dungeon/gamplay or what have you may just not be your thing.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I don't know why people are so fixated on puzzles being one of the magical bullets that is going to make the palace better. Considering that every floor is randomly generated, most of the puzzles would have to be watered down to make it usable everywhere. Regardless of how hard or easy the puzzles would be, it'd boil down to just looking for a guide to solve them faster and waste less time cause no one wants to run out the 60 minute time limit.

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It doesn't mean they shouldn't do it, even if the puzzles were easy enough. The content is clearly designed to not be approached traditionally, which means it can be wide open to offering variety in objectives/tasks. The way it is set up on the lower level portion, this is not the case and playing it safe.

I think it's pretty damn fantastic for the following reasons:

1. You can level a class in there.
2. You can preview said classes future abilities (which is awesome).
3. You can cap the current tomestones. (Progress towards relic/gear).
4. Once you hit 50 you start getting Poetics (progress towards relic).
5. You are working towards an i235 weapon.
6. The DF queues are super fast.
7. Because it's randomized it's more fun to level grind through then the same ol' boring ass dungeons.

You can accomplish all that in one piece of content. It's outstanding.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

I think it's pretty damn fantastic for the following reasons:

1. You can level a class in there.
2. You can preview said classes future abilities (which is awesome).
3. You can cap the current tomestones. (Progress towards relic/gear).
4. Once you hit 50 you start getting Poetics (progress towards relic).
5. You are working towards an i235 weapon.
6. The DF queues are super fast.
7. Because it's randomized it's more fun to level grind through then the same ol' boring ass dungeons.

You can accomplish all that in one piece of content. It's outstanding.

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That's the only bright side, however give it a month if even, and you probably end up with dead or long queue's.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

In interviews they said this dungeon was based on games like Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon which they specifically mentioned as a point of reference. I think they also mentioned somewhere but can't remember where that this is a nostalgic throwback to the old FF games of the past, even the character icons are in the style old nostalgic FF toons as is the UI for it. If you have evidence of them saying at any stage it was based on Nyzul Isle I would be willing to take a look but it wouldn't be much of a nostalgic throwback though if they made it overly complex compared to how those old games were.

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I never claimed that they said Nyzul was the inspiration, only that it is very similar in concept to Nyzul in the only other FF MMO they've made and am questioning why the implementation here of the concept is so much worse than what we got a decade ago. If their actual inspiration is something of lower quality than what Nyzul was, it doesn't really change the fact that we still got a better and more interesting thing a decade ago.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

I think it's pretty damn fantastic for the following reasons:

1. You can level a class in there.
2. You can preview said classes future abilities (which is awesome).
3. You can cap the current tomestones. (Progress towards relic/gear).
4. Once you hit 50 you start getting Poetics (progress towards relic).
5. You are working towards an i235 weapon.
6. The DF queues are super fast.
7. Because it's randomized it's more fun to level grind through then the same ol' boring ass dungeons.

You can accomplish all that in one piece of content. It's outstanding.

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Let's see...

1. Already have all jobs at 60
2. See #1
3. I usually cap in 2-3 days anyway
4. Other than working on unidentified items for relic #3, not much use for poetics
5. I will finish my 240 relic this weekend, while an i235 is nice for an alt job. I don't take that job into Savage so i235 isn't much use since I already have the i230 lore for that and it's more than enough outside of that.
6. I usually do content with one or more friends so queue times are not much of an issue outside of PVP.
7. While I partially agree on being more fun than the same old dungeon all the times, this is also like saying that watching paint dry is more fun than being shot. Neither one is all that awesome.

For me, it's ok. It's new and for that reason alone I don't mind it.

I think that for some there is a delusion that all patches must have instances that are made to entertain endgame players with at least 1-2 60s.

From what i experienced in running the 1-50 including some chaotic 4 healer groups, the 1-50 floors seem more leaning toward how to cooperate quicker and optimize your play skills. As said, it kinda punishes those who just jump ahead sometimes or just are slow as hell (hello explosions and mob pop traps)
There is something that we can all learn here whether lower level or high and even 60 players may not be as great as they think they are despite all lv60 classes. (like i seen tanks rush ahead w multiple mobs to kill them quicker and then die to a land mine LOL) Because if someone screws up, its not always their fault if the rest of the party cannot adapt to the hectic situation.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

I think it's pretty damn fantastic for the following reasons:

1. You can level a class in there.
2. You can preview said classes future abilities (which is awesome).
3. You can cap the current tomestones. (Progress towards relic/gear).
4. Once you hit 50 you start getting Poetics (progress towards relic).
5. You are working towards an i235 weapon.
6. The DF queues are super fast.
7. Because it's randomized it's more fun to level grind through then the same ol' boring ass dungeons.

You can accomplish all that in one piece of content. It's outstanding.

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Yeah, except everyone I know had all 60 classes after 2-3 months of 3.0.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

I think it's pretty damn fantastic for the following reasons:

1. You can level a class in there.
2. You can preview said classes future abilities (which is awesome).
3. You can cap the current tomestones. (Progress towards relic/gear).
4. Once you hit 50 you start getting Poetics (progress towards relic).
5. You are working towards an i235 weapon.
6. The DF queues are super fast.
7. Because it's randomized it's more fun to level grind through then the same ol' boring ass dungeons.

You can accomplish all that in one piece of content. It's outstanding.

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Why go through that for a 235 when i can just kill Nidhogg EX? Also queues are always fast on release give it time.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

That's the only bright side, however give it a month if even, and you probably end up with dead or long queue's.

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Um...no it wont. It will probably become used as an alternative to grinding fates by people (new players, alt classes and alt characters) since it can be done solo, with a friend or with others without any restriction on party composition. The only (potential) downside in terms of queue times is not on DD runs but instead it may have a knock on effect for normal dungeons as more people use DD instead of those for leveling.

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Originally Posted by Remus

Why go through that for a 235 when i can just kill Nidhogg EX? Also queues are always fast on release give it time.

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Obviously because not everyone has the luxury of have a same time static/FC/LC to learn the full routine before pple start to abandon it after a mere 3 wipes.
Not everyone lives in the major states or EU times and when your off the grid or have a bad time schedule, you also cant really pick and choose if the players you get are good or bad, You just have to deal with it and its a circle jerk. Though its probably something that never crosses pples minds as most live in the major timezones.

I do envy those pple as i live in the middle of the biggest body of water, posting on forums/reddit gets little response as well as looking to FC/LSs with same timezones, and making your own PF takes 1-2hrs sometimes with impatient pple leaving after 2-3 wipes and it impedes pple from learning further.

I remember when i was playing FFXI (preAbyssea) i was in japan and literally SWAM through all my class levels taking the initiative to make all my grinding parties. Unfortunately, timezones play a huge role in progress.

Well palast of death is DEAD for me >_> I stick with my lv210 eso weaps still!

I mean, Me as Tank and 3 other Tanks are entering floors 41, thanks to retarted DF!
It was such a hassle to fight through to floor 50, like without heals, weak clemens heals (1k, lol) and very low DPS D: <

We managed to final boss and got wreckted >_> thanks for the time waste and bad expierence. Not doing that frustrating content again till they change ALOT!

Floor 50 boss HP Was down 50% HP and boom -> it did an attack party got wiped.
If it was a DPS test, HOW a party of 4 tanks can do this?! zzzzz

I give it a 6/10, it's a fun and NEW system that while I coin it "Diadem Elevator" the RNG and traps make it interesting. And if you're playing with players on coms, it makes this more fun. But it is grindy, it is short, and feels like it hit a point where if it kept going it would of scratched my itch left from Diadem's Shell of a System. The story took something great, and wrapped it up all too soon, and now it feels like it won't really be story motivated or if it is, will be sort of thrown together.

What made Nyzul amazing, is that it wasn't JUST kill mobs. You had to know what the floor's rules were, and they were RNG. It could be that you kill a Super Beast leader mob, or you kill a family type of mobs (Aquans, Goblins, Qiqirin, etc.), than you had the mobs that you had to Identify as the chosen mob through checking (which could of been fixed by giving us a "glass Key Item" that we use to identify the mob to proceed to the next floor). Than you had lamps that REQUIRED coordination with other players.

There were many points in this mode that I told myself, "Man this could of been SO MUCH BETTER had they done *insert mechanic/device/rule here*". The limitations and buffs don't com up nearly enough, Pox is kind of a thing you might see once or never in all 1-50. Mob variation was cool per setting, and were it not for the traps it would of been just a "Diadem Elevator" but even the traps only push the needle so far.

For instance when you get a floor you are "Blind" on, why couldn't the whole room be dark and you can only see as far as your weapon would illuminate. That by far would of made for an interesting quirk. Make a room that is has the rule of being upside down, and your controls are in reverse. The point is there are so many little things that could of been done to the system to really give it that polish that made me not want to log off. But as all content in this game, I can do it once for the day, and call it a night, maybe pick it up for tomorrow, but if not, no sweat. I DON'T LIKE THAT. I want content that makes me crave it and not even want to log off outside of being a responsible adult. And the first thing I do when I login, is want to do this content.

Over all, it's a decent system, love to see the RNG, map variation was cool, Pomanders and traps were a great concept, but the story is weak at best, and eliminates a motivating factor all too soon; and the rules and floor restrictions are too soft and really don't change the game ENOUGH to be noticeable or memorable. Also the bosses are so stupid easy that the fact YoshiP is quoted at saying that this content would be challenging and not easily completed by every player, just comes off as laughable. If you can't 1-50 in 4-5 hours, you're honestly brain dead.

I stress this, SE STOP TRYING TO BE SO UNIQUE FROM 11! You've already accomplished looking and feeling slightly different, but the game modes from an archaic game are far superior with far less resources, than your own. PLEASE start pushing your game, rather than making it so hand holdy and being so ANYTHING can clear it. My group even go to the point where we had a Ninja Cheese some floors because of time, by stealthing and popping a chest and stealthing out, with out aggroing a mob (excluding the multi headed ghost things, true hearing it seems). And while it's cool to find out lil tricks like this, it's a bummer to see what this mode COULD BE from a game that is 10+ years OLDER than what we have now.

Back after running all 50 floors, went in with a balanced party with my fc and I have to say I had a good time, it was easy to get through we proly didn't need a healer. It felt like some of the older rpg games with its element of randomness not a huge emphasis on gear more about the items you find.
Here's looking forward to the next set of floors.

May all your quest be epic.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Well palast of death is DEAD for me >_> I stick with my lv210 eso weaps still!

I mean, Me as Tank and 3 other Tanks are entering floors 41, thanks to retarted DF!
It was such a hassle to fight through to floor 50, like without heals, weak clemens heals (1k, lol) and very low DPS D: <

We managed to final boss and got wreckted >_> thanks for the time waste and bad expierence. Not doing that frustrating content again till they change ALOT!

Floor 50 boss HP Was down 50% HP and boom -> it did an attack party got wiped.
If it was a DPS test, HOW a party of 4 tanks can do this?! zzzzz

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Get friends and better people. And bring a healer.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Get friends and better people. And bring a healer.

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No thanks, They should improve the Duty finder!!

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Well palast of death is DEAD for me >_> I stick with my lv210 eso weaps still!

I mean, Me as Tank and 3 other Tanks are entering floors 41, thanks to retarted DF!
It was such a hassle to fight through to floor 50, like without heals, weak clemens heals (1k, lol) and very low DPS D: <

We managed to final boss and got wreckted >_> thanks for the time waste and bad expierence. Not doing that frustrating content again till they change ALOT!

Floor 50 boss HP Was down 50% HP and boom -> it did an attack party got wiped
If it was a DPS test, HOW a party of 4 tanks can do this?! zzzzz

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Its part of the challenge lol like we had 4 healer group w no tank
just call the preformed PTs carebears parties.

By far the most ridiculously mind numbingly boring content they have ever added. It would seem fun just isn't an important factor when designing new content for this game. Diadem was crap, this is crap, it's a worrying trend.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

No thanks, They should improve the Duty finder!!

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See my previous reply. Don't like the randomness of DF? Go get people that cuts down on the RNG players.

AsahinaMyLove is someone who thinks anything that can't be basically AFK'd through is too difficult and should be nerfed and has had this mentality for a long time, I wouldn't try to convince them otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

By far the most ridiculously mind numbingly boring content they have ever added. It would seem fun just isn't an important factor when designing new content for this game. Diadem was crap, this is crap, it's a worrying trend.

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Speak for yourself, I'm having a blast. As are many other people clearly.

Mystery Dungeon-type games and content isn't for everyone because of how grindy it can seem, but those who like it (like myself) REALLY enjoy it, so it's not your cup of tea, oh well, doesn't make it bad.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

By far the most ridiculously mind numbingly boring content they have ever added. It would seem fun just isn't an important factor when designing new content for this game. Diadem was crap, this is crap, it's a worrying trend.

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If you don't like apples, why are you still eating this apple-pie?

I feel like asking: what kind of group configurations are people running it with?

Cause I once had a 41-50 4 healer party that died in the first room cause mobs kept spawning on top of us one after another and we triggered a luring trap on accident. Suffice to say we could not regain control of the situation.

I also had a group of 2 healers 1 tank 1 DPS, we got to the 49th floor only for the tank to pull a bit too many dragons and we lost control of the situation and died.

My group that cleared 41-50 happened to be 3 healers (2 AST 1 WHM) and 1 DPS (BLM) we managed to clear it though we had to focus fire mobs 1 at a time unless we got a luring trap, then came the Holy/Gravity spam while one healer goes full healer mode to keep us alive.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

I feel like asking: what kind of group configurations are people running it with?

Cause I once had a 41-50 4 healer party that died in the first room cause mobs kept spawning on top of us one after another and we triggered a luring trap on accident. Suffice to say we could not regain control of the situation.

I also had a group of 2 healers 1 tank 1 DPS, we got to the 49th floor only for the tank to pull a bit too many dragons and we lost control of the situation and died.

My group that cleared 41-50 happened to be 3 healers (2 AST 1 WHM) and 1 DPS (BLM) we managed to clear it though we had to focus fire mobs 1 at a time unless we got a luring trap, then came the Holy/Gravity spam while one healer goes full healer mode to keep us alive.

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Surprisingly had the same 3 healer 1 dps for 41-50 clear but there was times with 4 healers. But we were ok. Its kinda harsh but i think it boils down to each persons reaction time. And proceeding the dungeon depending on the setups. Like when we had 4 healers and they went to chests, i totally went the other way in case that thing exploded >.>

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Originally Posted by Fyce

If you don't like apples, why are you still eating this apple-pie?

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The majority of the game is excellent it's just when they attempt to add something outside of the usual formula of trials, dungeons and raids it just isn't as good.

I'm also loving this apple pie.

Other than Aquapolis, this is the only content in the game that isn't a song and dance.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

The majority of the game is excellent it's just when they attempt to add something outside of the usual formula of trials, dungeons and raids it just isn't as good.

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That's just your mere opinion though. You state it like it's a fact, but the hundreds of people currently enjoying this content shows that it's obviously not the case.

It's like you're complaining just for the sake of it. I'm okay with people having opinions... but constructive criticism is way more valuable.

I do wonder why this content randomly matches party roles when you DF it (giving you stellar setups like 4 tanks or 4 healers potentially) when literally nothing else except a few modes of PvP does that -- and from my understanding, in those PvP modes you can freely change your class mid-duty anyway.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

That's just your mere opinion though. You state it like it's a fact, but the hundreds of people currently enjoying this content shows that it's obviously not the case
It's like you're complaining just for the sake of it. I'm okay with people having opinions... but constructive criticism is way more valuable.

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When did I say it was a fact? I simply shared my opinion which is as valid as anyone else's. The topic of this thread is disappointed with palace of the dead and your moaning someone doesn't like it.

It doesn't give enough esoterics to merit doing it instead of spamming antitower or aetherochemical. This is the most disappointing aspect to me. Poms are well designed and interesting though, as resource management is always interesting.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I do wonder why this content randomly matches party roles when you DF it (giving you stellar setups like 4 tanks or 4 healers potentially) when literally nothing else except a few modes of PvP does that -- and from my understanding, in those PvP modes you can freely change your class mid-duty anyway.

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Because it was designed with the capability to solo it, and to work with any composition with a change of tactics. So the DF is setup to allow that as well. Otherwise it would be too easy if you had a standard setup.

Almost every time you get a standard party setup the dungeon goes by really fast tanks pull big, DPS nukes them, boss fights go by really easily due to everyone falling into standard dungeon routine.

A nonstandard setup causes the party to adapt on the fly to their durability and kill speed.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I do wonder why this content randomly matches party roles when you DF it (giving you stellar setups like 4 tanks or 4 healers potentially) when literally nothing else except a few modes of PvP does that -- and from my understanding, in those PvP modes you can freely change your class mid-duty anyway.

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Since the palace can be done with any party set up, it is matched that way, plus it helps fill slots faster than the standard trinity set up.

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Because it was designed with the capability to solo it,

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Not without a longer time limit, it isn't, and certainly not by every class.

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Since the palace can be done with any party set up,

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[citation needed]

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plus it helps fill slots faster than the standard trinity set up.

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This would be true for literally every duty. There's a reason why they aren't all made like that (good reason too, not Just Because)