Report All the people Selling AND Buying houses in PF

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Originally Posted by Lujan

People do this all the time with everything I control quite a few markets on my server with crafting so do many other's, moan at the buyer's not the seller's and most of all SE build a Free Company room wait for apartment's ask a mate that has a house and can you have the basement?

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All I can say to this is...Punctuation. Please...I cant read this in one breath.

This 3 of us in the fc had the day off so we was on TS when servers went up and managed to get ours homes. While some people got alt fc homes also, but this is it people are upset they went so fast they added 720 houses that's all no doubt they would go fast.

What it all boils down to if you really want a house I have seen ton's of post on reddit and other places of whole wards empty, on other server's you could always Move to another server like people have done for statics then maybe they might change the system.

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Originally Posted by Avera

All I can say to this is...Punctuation. Please...I cant read this in one breath.

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why, do you have trouble breathing maybe you should see a doctor?

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Originally Posted by Lujan

why, do you have trouble breathing maybe you should see a doctor?

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Actually I do =3= and I have.

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Originally Posted by Lujan

This 3 of us in the fc had the day off so we was on TS when servers went up and managed to get ours homes.

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That's the worse part in this systeme, you should not have to take a day off from work for a game....

http://i.imgur.com/2hbfQNJ.jpg

You know I find it funny that as soon as the GMs decide that it might be punishable to sell a house to another player, some come out and defend this house flipping...
I will just leave this link to a older post here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3209031

Hmm someone has four private houses (or even more right now?) and is against punishing sellers...strange right ;) But all of those people that are hoping that house sellers will be punished are just salty whiners right? ;)

Our FC has a house and I have a small one too so I have nothing to complain about but I still hope that SE will punish these house sellers hard..I can feel the pain from all those people that want their own home but cant get it because some greedy people thinks its fine to do something like that in a game...Its horrible enough that this exist in the real world too..

I have send two reports yesterday and I will continue to report sellers in the future. They might not be punished right now but maybe enough complains might change SE minds on the housing situation in general..Maybe they will one day even implement a restriction for only one house per server or something like that..(Still not sure why they did not see that happen with such a limited item..)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

You know I find it funny that as soon as the GMs decide that it might be punishable to sell a house to another player, some come out and defend this house flipping...

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Deciding that something might be is an oxymoron.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Hmm someone has four private houses (or even more right now?) and is against punishing sellers...strange right ;)

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Clearly I'm in on the house flipping to have 4 houses. Especially on Exodus, where there are less than 200 houses that are yet to be bought. There's only about 120 small houses left, and most are in the Goblet. The only way I could possibly have 4 is by getting them through flipping, or RMT, or hacking, or something like that.

I actually kind of disagree. I would honestly sell my small house but it's impossible. so the only reason i keep it is because i have 2 options either
A- relinquish it for no return at all and lose everything i invested in it or..
B- just keep it especially as it costs me nothing to keep. the only thing i really do with it is gardening which i could apparently do fro ma fc room now..

i know a few friends that are exactly the same as me. don't really need there houses but as they can't sell them just keep them for the sake of it..

in regard to people that buy plots specifically to monopolise then sure i can see how that could be a problem . but i still disagree with the idea of punishing people who would simply sell there house because they either want to upgrade to a bigger one or just don't need it anymore.. if there was an in game facility for me to put my small plot up for sale i'd use it. but as there isn't i just keep it because well its either keep it or burn it down for nothing....

Totally true the whole system is flawed, yet if you abandon your house by not entering it you get 75 or 70% back. One of the main reasons I wont upgrade to a medium for my free company and also due to it not saving flight data or prototype data. With my personal house I am happy with a small no need for anything bigger atm.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Hmm someone has four private houses (or even more right now?) and is against punishing sellers...strange right ;)

Our FC has a house and I have a small one too so I have nothing to complain about but I still hope that SE will punish these house sellers hard..I can feel the pain from all those people that want their own home but cant get it because some greedy people thinks its fine to do something like that in a game...Its horrible enough that this exist in the real world too..

. They might not be punished right now but maybe enough complains might change SE minds on the housing situation in general..Maybe they will one day even implement a restriction for only one house per server or something like that..(Still not sure why they did not see that happen with such a limited item..)

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This. Just so much this.

I think there should be a way people can sell a plot they have and no longer want because either they don't need or want it anymore. I don't think many object to that. It's the ones who buy plots with the soul purpose of selling and at a hiked up price. In an ideal world plots would be resold for the price they were brought for. That would stop some of the scalpers and flippers in it for simple greed.

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Originally Posted by Elodie-kitteh

I think there should be a way people can sell a plot they have and no longer want because either they don't need or want it anymore. I don't think many object to that. It's the ones who buy plots with the soul purpose of selling and at a hiked up price. In an ideal world plots would be resold for the price they were brought for. That would stop some of the scalpers and flippers in it for simple greed.

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I bet they could have an auction to the owners and just sell it around the price the plot was bought at, and then we bid it up...that might please all of us.

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Originally Posted by Avera

I bet they could have an auction to the owners and just sell it around the price the plot was bought at, and then we bid it up...that might please all of us.

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To add to this, I think SE would have to put a limit on how high you can bid, and they could choose starting bid prices for some sort of House Auctioning system...and ofc...we pick how much we bid up to the max that gets set if they added this.

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Originally Posted by Avera

To add to this, I think SE would have to put a limit on how high you can bid, and they could choose starting bid prices for some sort of House Auctioning system...and ofc...we pick how much we bid up to the max that gets set if they added this.

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And like the reverse auction system, max price is so stupid low that it doesn't even matter. First person with common sense bids max price and wins.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Deciding that something might be is an oxymoron.

Clearly I'm in on the house flipping to have 4 houses. Especially on Exodus, where there are less than 200 houses that are yet to be bought. There's only about 120 small houses left, and most are in the Goblet. The only way I could possibly have 4 is by getting them through flipping, or RMT, or hacking, or something like that.

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I am sorry ^^ English is not my mother tongue so not everything might be right in my sentences.

Well you don't have to be a house seller but I find it funny that you are so against punishing sellers if there is nothing negative for you. ^^ Why would it be bad if they truly will be punishing them if you are not interested in selling houses some where down the road? Its like in the topic I linked where you first said that people just should use their FC rooms if they want housing so bad because there is nothing interesting there to need private housing and later saying that you even have four houses.

@ Dzian: But now you will get a lot of your gil back if you wait those 45 days. It might not be everything and you wont get back those more rare items but you will lose them anyway. But if you sell your house this will mean double the price for the buyers (min.) and they don't even have the security to know that it will be theirs after they paid you the money.

The best would be if SE would have implemented a system where you can have only one private house per server and that there would be a NPC that you can sell your house back to with maybe a very little fee for doing so. You get your money back, another person can just purchase the house again and nobody would be able to sell those houses to others. (Maybe you can only give it up by talking to that NPC) I still don't know why they never thought about the possibility that this might get exploited by the players...

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Well you don't have to be a house seller but I find it funny that you are so against punishing sellers if there is nothing negative for you.

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1 - Because there has not been an official statement that it's against the ToS. That should be step 1, before punishing people for flipping houses
2 - Because it's a symptom, not the problem. All it does is make some people with masochistic tendencies happy that someone else got hurt.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

1 - Because there has not been an official statement that it's against the ToS. That should be step 1, before punishing people for flipping houses

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You responded to a post of mine where I did post an image showing a GM supervisor respond and say it is against ToS. It is safe for everyone to just assume you are someone with a vested interest in defending house flipping. I don't see you contributing anything of value, just a lot of bs.

http://http://i.imgur.com/LNcXuRT.png

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Originally Posted by MikeWW

You responded to a post of mine where I did post an image showing a GM supervisor respond and say it is against ToS.

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And there are other images of GMs saying that it's not against the ToS, also without the full context of the question/situation. You can't ignore evidence against your argument while touting evidence of equal validity as absolute proof. There have been a thousand threads on the official forum about flipping, can you point to a single response by any SE employee stating their stance on it?

Your contribution is a lot of BS and baseless accusations.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

1 - Because there has not been an official statement that it's against the ToS. That should be step 1, before punishing people for flipping houses
2 - Because it's a symptom, not the problem. All it does is make some people with masochistic tendencies happy that someone else got hurt.

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Well someone posted some screenshots about it and there was a post some time back at reddit showing someone in GM jail for that. ^^ But I agree there is sadly no official statement on it but I hope that SE will soon post one if enough people are showing that they don't like this situation (and more people reporting them ^^)

Well yes its only a band aid ^^ like most of the housing changes. They could have done this way better but they did not which means that the only thing that they could do now is either 1. ignoring it making people more and more angrier about this 2. make a official statement that this is against the ToS or 3. change the system which means only one house per character and maybe being able to sell the house back to are npc. (For example)

The worse we could do (imo) is just sit here, don't say a thing and hope that they will change it. ^^

And I am sorry, I don't really feel bad about the people that I or others will "hurt" with this. Exactly like how they don't give a damn about the other players by buying and selling those houses, even more since this is such a limited item. But nice to know that its us that have the masochistic tendencies and not those that exploit such a system and showing one of the worse sides of humanity. (Like I said, I dislike this greed in RL too ^^)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

And I am sorry, I don't really feel bad about the people that I or others will "hurt" with this.

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It's not about not feeling bad, that's indifference. Indifferent people don't form lynch mobs. It's about receiving pleasure or satisfaction from someone else's pain or misery. That's what the house flippers are being accused of here, while they are the indifferent ones.

I always report the ones that sell houses in Party Finder. Its very frustrating to see them selling them way more expensive because some people are desperate.

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Originally Posted by CuteWhisper

I always report the ones that sell houses in Party Finder. Its very frustrating to see them selling them way more expensive because some people are desperate.

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Whats sad is...me and my friends whom are homeless are silently getting to that breaking point...we want a house, we are putting all our gil together to try and buy one...it really hurts to see what has happened...I just want a small house in the Beds...I have the money but not to a seller.

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Originally Posted by Avera

Whats sad is...me and my friends whom are homeless are silently getting to that breaking point...we want a house, we are putting all our gil together to try and buy one...it really hurts to see what has happened...I just want a small house in the Beds...I have the money but not to a seller.

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I don't know what they were thinking when they thought it would be a good idea to just add a few wards... Come on SE, you can do better than this!

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Originally Posted by CuteWhisper

I don't know what they were thinking when they thought it would be a good idea to just add a few wards... Come on SE, you can do better than this!

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No kidding...they manage 24-man raids like clockwork, but they cant make a decent housing system :T

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Originally Posted by Avera

Whats sad is...me and my friends whom are homeless are silently getting to that breaking point...we want a house, we are putting all our gil together to try and buy one...it really hurts to see what has happened...I just want a small house in the Beds...I have the money but not to a seller.

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the problem then is that you expect people with housing to just give them up. and release the plots for nothing. which doesn't really happen. I hardly use mine and would happily sell it. but i'm not just going to relinquish it for no return. it costs me nothing to keep so i'd rather than have something than have nothing. it hardly gets used but its an asset so to speak and it's not like its taking up valuable inventory space or anything. so there's no reason to get rid of it.

what they need though is a decent transfer system. because if I were to sell my plot to someone they inevitably end up paying for it twice. paying me to relinquish and then paying again for the land.

the way I see it. all they really need to do is make ownership transferrable. so if someone wants my house they could for example pay me and I could simply make them a tenant and then hand over ownership to them. or something similar to that. seems the easiest way to do it. wouldn't be much different to handing over fc leadership to someone else....

this way if I were to unsubscribe any tenants in my residence would not find themselves homeless after I hadn't logged in for 30 days as I could transfer it to them before I left... or failing that simply make it so as long as a tenant enters the house the 30 day timer is reset.

At present I don't see a problem with people selling there plots in party finders simply because currently that's the only way you can do so. the only other way is to relinquish for no return in which case people will just keep there houses even if hardly used.
the issue is the buyers having to pay twice..

you can't really blame people for wanting to sell there houses instead of just give them up... but they can't sell them properly. so the options are keep it or lose everything you've spent on it... which is why everyone keeps it.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

snip.

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I do think they could have a way to trade houses or some crud...but its not fair to resell a plot at 20x its value...

I have a feeling SE knows what they're doing. They have had plenty of chances to change the system.

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Originally Posted by ReathaPrease

I have a feeling SE knows what they're doing. They have had plenty of chances to change the system.

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No I am pretty sure they just don't even want to admit they made a crappy feature and prepared to fix it or.... Just too lazy.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

what they need though is a decent transfer system. because if I were to sell my plot to someone they inevitably end up paying for it twice. paying me to relinquish and then paying again for the land.

the way I see it. all they really need to do is make ownership transferrable. so if someone wants my house they could for example pay me and I could simply make them a tenant and then hand over ownership to them. or something similar to that. seems the easiest way to do it. wouldn't be much different to handing over fc leadership to someone else....

this way if I were to unsubscribe any tenants in my residence would not find themselves homeless after I hadn't logged in for 30 days as I could transfer it to them before I left... or failing that simply make it so as long as a tenant enters the house the 30 day timer is reset.

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SE could maybe change the relinquish function to include an (NPC only) option of buying your house off you at 80% of what it cost to buy from the system in the first place, by proxy countering the malign profiteering going on currently on what is one of the most sought after yet limited things in game which SE have already put a 'maximum' price on that SE tells people have to pay if want one. The function/NPC should buy back at less than what paid but enough so that feel you haven't lost all your investment just like the reclamation function which only gives around 70-80% back.

It should then be put back on the market 24 hours later at the maximum price SE already set for it originally which is same price it cost you to buy it from the system and during those 24 hours everyone is given notice that it is coming back on the market soon via a third type of ward listing (already owned/not owned/in process of relisting) with different icon/description that has a visible countdown timer on till the 24 hours expires.

House flippers should still be punished (house taken from them, put back on the market with no refund given) if they are selling plots through PF or outside of that new NPC however to counter people screwing others over like they do now charging 10x or more than maximum price SE already set. Personally however I think despite the fact I think house flippers should be punished, the housing plot severe limit due to using wards is the biggest issue. Bad ideas like reverse auction wouldn't change that, good ideas like an NPC option to re-buy the house from you at 80% at any time wouldn't solve that issue either.

The ward system is a nice concept but does more harm than good currently. The way I would of liked SE to solve the biggest problem is doing away with hugely resource/infrastructure intensive wards which need to be active 24/7, instead allowing instanced person housing (home plus some land outside the home) which only requires the individual (FC or personal) home to be active/functioning when members of the FC (if FC home), people who have been granted sharing (if personal home) or the FC/personal home owners go there (with or without other people in the party tagging along).

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

instead allowing instanced person housing (home plus some land outside the home) which only requires the individual (FC or personal) home to be active/functioning when members of the FC (if FC home), people who have been granted sharing (if personal home) or the FC/personal home owners go there (with or without other people in the party tagging along).

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Newsflash: The houses are already instanced.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Newsflash: The houses are already instanced.

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Don't be a smart-arse, you should already know what I mean. The inside of a house is but outside of it aka the wards are not. The wards are huge zones which are active 24/7 which takes up a large amount of server resources unlike what I was saying which is individual plots of land with single house and that would take up vastly less resources because they are inactive unless someone goes there. Same way we have infinite inn rooms aka everyone has one, they are not loaded unless someone is there...with wards however that is not the case and they are a constantly active drain on server resources. You may think the mere novelty of housing wards is worth locking out a vast amount of additional players from owning their own house but I do not. Unlike some other people on these forums despite the fact I already own my own house, I never lost my compassion for the plight of those without one.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

the problem then is that you expect people with housing to just give them up. and release the plots for nothing. which doesn't really happen. I hardly use mine and would happily sell it. but i'm not just going to relinquish it for no return. it costs me nothing to keep so i'd rather than have something than have nothing.

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But since they put in that new 45 days system you will get something back?? It wont be 100% of the price you paid but around 70% of your gil will be paid back so not sure why you say that you will get nothing out of it?
The perfect way to handle such a thing would be giving up your house by talking to a npc and maybe getting 95% of your gil back or something like that. No way for other people to sell houses and if you dont want one anymore you will get most of your money back. But sadly SE likes to go the difficult exploitable ways..

The definitive answer is that house resale from one player to another is against ToS, as stated by a GM supervisor who said he would make sure that all GM's will be informed so they can all be on the same page regarding the issue.

To clarify, house resale is against ToS, as per the official response of a GM supervisor.

Hi, let me explain it to you in simpler terms.

House resale is no no.

House resale is a big no no!

House resale is against ToS.

House resale is a black area, not a grey area. Black is bad.

Please stop listening to the vegetables trying to say house flipping is not bad or that house resale is a grey area.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nitive_answer/

http://i.imgur.com/LNcXuRT.png

http://i.imgur.com/eeX3HZZ.png

http://i.imgur.com/xvBnlkO.png

Thaaaank you Mike =w=

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Originally Posted by MikeWW

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The definitive answer is that it is all allowable under the ToS, because a GM said this to an inquiry:
http://i.imgur.com/RvTr8zv.png

Or how about this one:

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

It's not bannable. I can confirm this with my FC situation.

We wanted a large. We actually struck a good deal with someone to get their plot. We had to call a GM because two people were camping the plot to try and steal it from us the second it gets free. GM did come to help with situation, but the guys grew bored of waiting and left already. We clearly stated in the ticket we were buying the house from another, yet no punish and no warning. Hell, the GM took screenshots with us in front of our new house.

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So that is absolute 100% proof right there.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Same way we have infinite inn rooms aka everyone has one, they are not loaded unless someone is there

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Inn rooms are not the same as instanced personal houses. Inn rooms save no data. Personal houses do.

Instanced houses would change little.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

The definitive answer is that it is all allowable under the ToS, because a GM said this to an inquiry:
http://i.imgur.com/RvTr8zv.png

Or how about this one:


So that is absolute 100% proof right there.

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That person doesn't show any screenshot evidence, and the GM supervisor made it clear it is against ToS. I can right now say a GM told me it's okay to spam people with goldselling messages, but if I don't provide picture evidence why would anyone believe me?

Maybe it is 100% proof right there?

Okay, then here is 100% proof that you are wrong. I asked a GM and we stood around chatting and he said there was no record of that person you mentioned, whoever that house flipper defender is, getting permission by a GM to resell the house. The GM also reaffirmed the fact that house resale is against ToS.

Enjoy the 100% proof.

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Originally Posted by MikeWW

That person doesn't show any screenshot evidence, and the GM supervisor made it clear it is against ToS. I can right now say a GM told me it's okay to spam people with goldselling messages, but if I don't provide picture evidence why would anyone believe me?

Maybe it is 100% proof right there?

Okay, then here is 100% proof that you are wrong. I asked a GM and we stood around chatting and he said there was no record of that person you mentioned, whoever that house flipper defender is, getting permission by a GM to resell the house. The GM also reaffirmed the fact that house resale is against ToS.

Enjoy the 100% proof.

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The 100% proof comment was sarcasm pointing out that you have no absolute proof that it is against the ToS.

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Originally Posted by MikeWW

Enjoy the 100% proof.

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Since that was clearly over your head, I'll explain it to you.

You provide evidence, call it unimpeachable absolute proof. Equally valid evidence is given to the contrary, you ignore it and continue to claim your absolute proof.

I did the exact same thing you did, except ignoring different evidence.