I was sick of tomes in 2.0 now I loathe them in 3.0

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Then you need to decide what's more important to you - being efficient or having fun. Me, I'll take fun any day. I've got an entire week to cap Lore so I'm in no hurry, but since I'm getting Lore doing things I enjoy doing, it's not so much of a grind.

As of right now I'm 421/450 for the week already.

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"you need to decide what's more important to you" hmmm, there are a lot of other games to play.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Because they have one week to cap.

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The cap's kinda small though. Is there really people that don't cap by Tuesday night?

I can only speak for myself personally, but I'm more concerned with Poetics and ESO than lore. I need to farm up 320 Unidentified relic upgrade items!

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

The cap's kinda small though. Is there really people that don't cap by Tuesday night?

I can only speak for myself personally, but I'm more concerned with Poetics and ESO than lore. I need to farm up 320 relic upgrade items!

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Logging on and thinking, "I have to cap" is not a very good incentive to log in to play a game.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Logging on and thinking, "I have to cap" is not a very good incentive to log in to play a game.

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I'm not sure who you're talking to here, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

3 times a week Ex roulette = 225 tomes

2x each Midan floor = 80 tomes

1x Void Ark = 20 tomes

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Good god man. You do that every week? I'm just thankful they released crafted gear and I barely had to buy any lore gear for my tanks. Not gearing up any more until 3.4 aside from drops I get in Savage.

Drex is boring and is the fastest way to cap... yeah u can cap doing pvp , but 1 i dont like pvp in this game and 2nd the queues are horrible..

ok do something u may find fun ......what? if it isnt Drex is has huge queues or never pops...if its for solo play, it can take me hours to no ened... and even then i would despise the content that i found it fun....and i dont want to kill the few things fun left on FFXIV for me.

I pray the twelve for the palace to be FUN , because that can save me from having to endure this tomes anymore....


they need to introduce the "FFXI" system, , for those that dont know how it works...its a list of task...from killing 20 morbol , to execute 20 ws , to explore that place , cast this skill 20 times , even job specific quests .....and that get u points to buy gear in FFXI , but here we can get some lore ...

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

they need to introduce the "FFXI" system, , for those that dont know how it works...its a list of task...from killing 20 morbol , to execute 20 ws , to explore that place , cast this skill 20 times , even job specific quests .....and that get u points to buy gear in FFXI , but here we can get some lore ...

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The idea of specific tasks to get "points" is pretty cool. I could get behind that for the sake of variety.

Lore is the exact same thing as "points to buy gear" though... ._.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

The cap's kinda small though. Is there really people that don't cap by Tuesday night?

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125/450 right now. At my current rate I won't cap.

75/450 got caught up in novice network yesterday, im not even sure why im worried about it since i got a lore weapon already

I don't know why people always complain about the tome grind. If we weren't grinding tomes we'd be grinding something else and very likely be a lot worse off for it. We could have a more "traditional" approach where the best gear comes from highly contested rare mobs with long respawn times and really low drop rates. Or we could even have a system where your base gear is easier to get, but you have to jump through multiple flaming hoops to upgrade it. Bonus points if upgrades can fail and waste the materials you used. Triple Word Score if failing can also cause the gear to downgrade or even be completely destroyed. I've even played games where their gearing system was some wild amalgamation of the above and it was eight flavors of awful to deal with.

Yeah, considering some of the more popular alternative systems out there I'd much rather have something like tomes where my progress isn't based solely on copious amounts of time and luck.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

weekly lockouts suck it should be monthly

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For what? Having a rolling cap or a larger cap are popular suggestions for some reason, but they wouldn't really help anyone.

Weekly rollover: The only people who this would "help" are people who normally cap, but may have missed a few days or a week so they can effectively "catch up" if they have enough free time and determination. Otherwise it doesn't help people who normally hit the weekly cap because they're already capping to begin with, hence no rollover. People who can't or don't bother making the weekly limit still wouldn't do it so their cap would grow pointlessly larger every week.

Monthly or longer cap periods: Same problem as the weekly rollover suggestion. Players who were already capping weekly will either cap early and now be forced to wait even longer for the reset or they pace themselves so they hit the cap closer to the end of the month meaning their progress is exactly the same as it was with the weekly cap and therefor there was no point in making it monthly vs. weekly. People who weren't making the weekly cap anyway still won't be meeting the cap if it were a monthly reset.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Monthly or longer cap periods: Same problem as the weekly rollover suggestion. Players who were already capping weekly will either cap early and now be forced to wait even longer for the reset or they pace themselves so they hit the cap closer to the end of the month meaning their progress is exactly the same as it was with the weekly cap and therefor there was no point in making it monthly vs. weekly. People who weren't making the weekly cap anyway still won't be meeting the cap if it were a monthly reset.

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Apart from it gives people more flexibility, like if you are busy one week and want to catch up the next. Sure it's not a massive upside but there is certainly no downside to it so why not?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

125/450 right now. At my current rate I won't cap.

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There's still plenty of time! With only using Hunts, DR EX, Void Ark, and Midas you should easily be able to cap before reset on Tuesday. :)

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

125/450 right now. At my current rate I won't cap.

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Due to the Battleborn launch, I'm currently at 30/450 and I still have plenty of time to cap without much effort for the week. Also, after taking a look at your character, what do you need lore gear for? You only have one level 60 and have zero Midas normal gear and the lore gear you do have is unmelded. A quick glance suggests that you spend most of your time doing PvP or crafting with little to no PvE.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

The cap's kinda small though. Is there really people that don't cap by Tuesday night?

I can only speak for myself personally, but I'm more concerned with Poetics and ESO than lore. I need to farm up 320 Unidentified relic upgrade items!

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The funny thing is, the cap use to be 300 and people complained that it was too low and that a higher cap wouldn't be hard to reach each week. The counter argument then was that people would complain that an increase in the weekly cap would force them to only do specific things when they log on and they would no longer have freedom to do what they wanted in game. While that counter argument appears to be coming true in the form of people refusing to see all of the other options available to them and pigeon holing themselves into only one thing.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

"you need to decide what's more important to you" hmmm, there are a lot of other games to play.

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By all means then play those other games. Nobody is forcing you to play this game and if you don't enjoy it, then why are you playing?

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

Apart from it gives people more flexibility, like if you are busy one week and want to catch up the next. Sure it's not a massive upside but there is certainly no downside to it so why not?

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Missing one week isn't going to destroy the game for you. I recently had to miss an entire lock out due to work. I flew out to Boston 0700 PST Tuesday morning, landed 2330 PST Monday night. So essentially, I had no access to the game for the entire lockout and it didn't even phase me. The downside is that it has the potential to take away resources from other aspects of the game to implement something that isn't even needed.

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Originally Posted by Cnidarian

The downside is that it has the potential to take away resources from other aspects of the game to implement something that isn't even needed.

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Uhm...I'm not a programming genius, but if this cap is done in any comparable way to timers in common scripts and mod editors, all you have to do is to dive into the script, search the right number, change the number, then compile and save.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Uhm...I'm not a programming genius, but if this cap is done in any comparable way to timers in common scripts and mod editors, all you have to do is to dive into the script, search the right number, change the number, then compile and save.

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That may be true, but at the same time we do not know how it was coded so it could be more complex than that. It could also have problems with other unknown aspects of the game.

I've pretty much at this point stopped doing the tomestone grind all together. I mean if I happen to be doing something and get some tomestones while I am doing it....then thats fine.

Though yeah this is why content like diadem, deep dungeon and the acropolis is all things I like to see a lot more of. They offer up a unique option of gameplay and a style of gameplay that just goes out of the meta. This is the kind of content we need more of really, just stuff that breaks out of the current meta and stirs things up and puts a whole new twist on things.

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Originally Posted by Cnidarian

That may be true, but at the same time we do not know how it was coded so it could be more complex than that. It could also have problems with other unknown aspects of the game.

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lol but you could make that argument any time ANYTHING is changed in game.

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

lol but you could make that argument any time ANYTHING is changed in game.

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Which I do make that argument, hence why I take a neutral stance on it. It can be extremely easy to change one thing or it can be a total nightmare, without access to the source code, we just can't make blanket statements that it should be a simple change to implement.

Edit - That doesn't mean I'm against the Dev's exploring that option, just that I would rather them not expend resources on a change if it turns out that it isn't a simple code alteration.

Lately the tome thing has been more of a chore than usual. The reason I think is that I have to include the weapon into the whole mix. That is 3 weeks (mostly) worth of tomes for one weapon. I think its too much. Perhaps raise the cap to 500 a week or something? In ARR getting time I got a piece of equipment from tomes it made me happy, but this time around it makes me say "ugh, finally".

Maybe a small change is in order?

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Originally Posted by Erudito

Lately the tome thing has been more of a chore than usual. The reason I think is that I have to include the weapon into the whole mix. That is 3 weeks (mostly) worth of tomes for one weapon. I think its too much. Perhaps raise the cap to 500 a week or something? In ARR getting time I got a piece of equipment from tomes it made me happy, but this time around it makes me say "ugh, finally".

Maybe a small change is in order?

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It's the exact same as it was in ARR. When the tome cap was 300, it took 900 tomes for a weapon. When they raised the cap to 450, it took 1000 tomes to obtain a weapon (which is actually less time as it is now roughly 2.25 weeks of tomes vs 3 weeks). In fact, the only things that have changed really is that we now have more varied ways of obtaining tomes but fewer dungeons, 24 man raids, and EX primals to choose from at the end of ARR. (Which will change as more content patches are released)

I honestly do not understand why people still keep complaining about this.
It's really simple, actually.

If you NEED the tome gear for savage and the like, view it as a necessary step in getting the clears. There's this saying, something about "nothing worth having comes easy", or something like that.
So grind your teeth and do a bit of unpleasant stuff so you can enjoy savage more.

If you DON'T NEED the tome gear because you don't do savage alex, then just don't bother capping. You don't need ilvl 230+ for normal dungeons, ex primals and any other type of fighting content.

You really have no one else to blame but yourself if you continue to beat yourself into grinding something you don't even need.

It's as if I really hated expensive peas but loved cheap pizza, and forced myself to do a horrible dayjob everyday to buy more and more peas that I'm not even gonna eat, when I could have pizza instead AND work less because the pizza is cheaper too. But hey, maybe you like displaying your giant jars full of fancy peas. But in that case the work is already worth it again because you DO get enjoyment out of the end result.

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Originally Posted by Cnidarian

That may be true, but at the same time we do not know how it was coded so it could be more complex than that. It could also have problems with other unknown aspects of the game.

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It's a balance issue, if you "magically" change the 450 cap to a 1800 cap then that means people who do harder content can just focus the first week on capping their tomes so that they can obtain the best gear and have a better chance of beating the content sooner. A weekly cap provides a more stable online playerbase because it won't turn into a "most players finish on first week or last week" that the in between may become harder for those to cap during that time because either everyone capped or people are waiting to cap til later.

At least with the current system you have it set in place where if you just log on, Do Expert Roulette 6/7 of the Days you will cap. In between you can do Alexander, maybe level 60 roulette, PVP content, Void Ark, etc etc for tomes and cap slightly sooner but the fact remains that just spending at least an hr should get you the Expert Daily tomes and heck if your time is constrained, just pop on DF, do what you need to get done while waiting, enter Dungeon once it pops, do the 20-30 min dance and then log off once you are done.

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Originally Posted by Airget

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I'm in agreement with you, and by reviewing my post history on this topic would show that you essentially summed up what I've been posting. The quote you used was a counter to someone wanting to change the tome limit or extend the lockout period. The below argument was brought on by another person on how they could facilitate that.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Uhm...I'm not a programming genius, but if this cap is done in any comparable way to timers in common scripts and mod editors, all you have to do is to dive into the script, search the right number, change the number, then compile and save.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I honestly do not understand why people still keep complaining about this.
It's really simple, actually.

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yeah its....lets complain until SE give us fun content to farm tomestome! :) , if Palace of the dead doesnt give tomes ..., if 45 mins in Palace give me 50 tomes and is fun? hell yeah...if the palace give 10 tomes for 1h of my time ? that sucks...even if its fun ...i will do it anyway because anything that resembles fun is really welcomed...

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

i will do it anyway because anything that resembles fun is really welcomed...

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Never a truer word spoken.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I honestly do not understand why people still keep complaining about this.
It's really simple, actually.

If you NEED the tome gear for savage and the like, view it as a necessary step in getting the clears. There's this saying, something about "nothing worth having comes easy", or something like that.
So grind your teeth and do a bit of unpleasant stuff so you can enjoy savage more.

If you DON'T NEED the tome gear because you don't do savage alex, then just don't bother capping. You don't need ilvl 230+ for normal dungeons, ex primals and any other type of fighting content.

You really have no one else to blame but yourself if you continue to beat yourself into grinding something you don't even need.

It's as if I really hated expensive peas but loved cheap pizza, and forced myself to do a horrible dayjob everyday to buy more and more peas that I'm not even gonna eat, when I could have pizza instead AND work less because the pizza is cheaper too. But hey, maybe you like displaying your giant jars full of fancy peas. But in that case the work is already worth it again because you DO get enjoyment out of the end result.

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Not a bad post, but this doesn't address or capture my complaints in tome capping in the slightest.

I dislike that you do not obtain gear as loot from a mob, but instead are given a currency and purchase it in a very predictable manner (i.e. I knew exactly what hour -not even day- I would have the Lore gloves, chest, head etc. piece within minutes of reading the 3.2 patch notes)

I dislike that if you have a week where you are busy with work/life you are permanently one week behind everyone else - no vacations!

I dislike that lore is distributed unevenly based on time and effort - i.e. you get 30 lore for beating A5S, but 75 lore for expert roulette.

I dislike that the highest reward to time/effort ratio is Expert Roulette, which is fast and incredibly easy, with only 2 roulette options on a daily basis.

I dislike that the weekly cap and gate for obtaining tomestones for purchasing gear prevents one from gearing multiple jobs.

I dislike that there are not really any other options for gearing. If you want Savage, you need to be getting tome gear (or pentameld crafting). So your options are spending loads of gil, crafting or lore gear. I'd like ti if there were more battle oriented options (such as drops in dungeons that are not 35 ilvl's below what the currency from the same dungeon buys you)

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do a bit of unpleasant stuff

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Always something you want people saying about your entertainment product.

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You really have no one else to blame but yourself if you continue to beat yourself into grinding something you don't even need.

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This is so true. I have stopped capping entirely, and I log in just to raid 5 hours per week. Once we have our other healer back from vacation, or sub healer is taking my spot and I am unsubbing. Definitely something I am sure Square wants.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

If you DON'T NEED the tome gear because you don't do savage alex, then just don't bother capping. You don't need ilvl 230+ for normal dungeons, ex primals and any other type of fighting content.

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This so true I don't even bother as much as I use to with gearing just got lore weapon even though it was a snore fest already with current gear I look at the requirements for the dungeons and just go why bother when I can get by with just 210 gear. It feels like the gear there just for the sake of being there, without the actual need for it to be there /shrug.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I honestly do not understand why people still keep complaining about this.
It's really simple, actually.

If you NEED the tome gear for savage and the like, view it as a necessary step in getting the clears. There's this saying, something about "nothing worth having comes easy", or something like that.
So grind your teeth and do a bit of unpleasant stuff so you can enjoy savage more.

If you DON'T NEED the tome gear because you don't do savage alex, then just don't bother capping.

You really have no one else to blame but yourself if you continue to beat yourself into grinding something you don't even need.

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Its the only good gear outside of Savage and crafted gear.People with that argument are obnoxious. I enjoy getting stronger in game, I do not enjoy doing the same content repeatedly. Its that simple. And people complain about it because its getting boring. Maybe I like seeing big pretty numbers.

Unpleasant? UNPLEASANT?! Thats probably something SE does not want people describing their game. However yes, the game is becoming quite unpleasant.

Know what else is simple? Getting lore tomes in other ways in addition to your daily EX roulette.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Know what else is simple? Getting lore tomes in other ways in addition to your daily EX roulette.

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You're right! However, that content is more boring, and gives less tomes. Expert dungeons are better, but there is only two of them and we do the same two for months. And tomes are a very lame and boring system.

So you're willing to suffer boredom and be grumpy for the sake of capping early.

so sick of them atm i haven't logged in in a month.

I will make it quick as I'm tired. But they really need to fix the tomestone system, it's very bland, but as I rarely do expert, doing primal or raids alone almost caps me each week, so doing 1 expert and 2-3 trials is good enough for me. However, one of the real problems are, people who do not raid should also get something extra for the system, because I honestly wouldn't bother capping if I wasn't raiding. There are a lot of people who don't cap and don't see the benefit of doing so, because the gear is somewhat ''useless''. Need to fix the gear system and tomestone system for next expansion, I'm not expecting anything before that, but they really have to somehow. This system works, but it's not one of the best things they have added into the system. So even if it works, there is still A LARGE PART OF THE COMMUNITY that has no benefit of it whatsoever. That's why the gear and tomestone system needs a fix.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

people who do not raid should also get something extra for the system, because I honestly wouldn't bother capping if I wasn't raiding.

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If someone chooses to opt out of the game's hardest content, they should get free stuff?

I don't understand the logic here.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If someone chooses to opt out of the game's hardest content, they should get free stuff?

I don't understand the logic here.

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I think she means there should be some sort of benefit of capping added that isn't centered around vertical progression. I'd guess things like crafting mats, crafting gear, treasure maps, consumables (i.e. food), mounts, minions and so on, that all could be purchased with Lore.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I think she means there should be some sort of benefit of capping added that isn't centered around vertical progression. I'd guess things like crafting mats, crafting gear, treasure maps, consumables (i.e. food), mounts, minions and so on, that all could be purchased with Lore.

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Actually, yeah! Why should gear be the only things that we spend tomes on...? It'd be nice to get other things with them, especially mounts and minions!

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I think she means there should be some sort of benefit of capping added that isn't centered around vertical progression. I'd guess things like crafting mats, crafting gear, treasure maps, consumables (i.e. food), mounts, minions and so on, that all could be purchased with Lore.

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Excactly what I was thinking. Problem is there are people who doesn't raid and as mentioned earlier in thread, many dislikes the capping/tomestone system. Problem is those who doesn't raid rarely has any benefit and there are people who simply cap for 1 job and doesn't bother at all after that. Those 2 groups need something that comes out of lore, instead of gear they won't even use.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If someone chooses to opt out of the game's hardest content, they should get free stuff?

I don't understand the logic here.

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Read what Kaurie said. I'm not saying it should be free stuff for non raiders, but add something thats worth picking up with lore, as mentioned in thread earlier, why bother cap when you don't even raid? This would be cool for those who doesn't bother with gearing up classes or simply focuses on 1 class. Yes there are people who gear up alt classes but many doesn't even use them in raid or even primals, simply because they don't know how to use the class in those fights or have no confidence trying. And I'm sorry for my earlier post, I should have just waited before posting that, but wanted to say something before zzz, but thanks to Kaurie for being nice and saying it for me :p. Also keep in mind, I'm a person who raids, I'm only thinking about those who doesn't get a real benefit like raiders do from capping tomestones.

I haven't capped in over a month.... well last month. I'm taking a 3-month break after waiting for 3 months for something innovative. The dungeons are easier which means I can get tomes faster but why would I want to do that when content can be done with the gear dropped in the dungeons. You might as well have all the sets running them 80 times and your good to go for the next big patch.

PvP is hilarious because I friggen loved Secure and Slaughter (before they nerfed the buff nodes) and now PvP modes are head bash sessions, treating us like little experiments in a box beating the crap out of each other and giving meaningless cosmetics, yet the currency we get (wolf marks) can be used to get ilvl 205 gear which is more than enough to help you progress through the game. Hilarious. BiS doesn't even matter at this point which makes me literally laugh at anyone judging players by their gear if they have gear over ilvl200 in normal modes.

I don't even need the tomes, the tomes can suck it, Rowena too. The palace of the dead will most likely be another diadem but with a fake sense of exploring running the same places but in different orders. Watch we get tomes for every floor we clear. If not that, then every set number. I'm definitely looking forward to it when I get back. -drinks-

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So you're willing to suffer boredom and be grumpy for the sake of capping early.

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Question for some of you. What is it do for fun in 14 besides being with friends?

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Read what Kaurie said. I'm not saying it should be free stuff for non raiders, but add something thats worth picking up with lore, as mentioned in thread earlier, why bother cap when you don't even raid? This would be cool for those who doesn't bother with gearing up classes or simply focuses on 1 class. Yes there are people who gear up alt classes but many doesn't even use them in raid or even primals, simply because they don't know how to use the class in those fights or have no confidence trying. And I'm sorry for my earlier post, I should have just waited before posting that, but wanted to say something before zzz, but thanks to Kaurie for being nice and saying it for me :p. Also keep in mind, I'm a person who raids, I'm only thinking about those who doesn't get a real benefit like raiders do from capping tomestones.

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OK, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying. It would be cool to have more stuff to buy with Lore, though. ^^