People are deliberately ruining the story for others

I defended watching cutscenes...in 2.0. Now the majority, the vast overwhelming majority, have been there done that and bought the t-shirt. The content is no longer current and the argument for people to wait like it's an obligation is no longer valid. If someone is new and asks (not demands) I'll probably wait, but sometimes I do The roulette because I only have 15 minutes to spare.

The game gives people the option to enter with an undersized, over leveled party so you can find a group and go at your own pace.

It kinda sucks, but like many people said, SE realized the mistake and have not done it since. They are unlikely to fix it though because again, it's not current content, and it's no longer the climax of the story.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

and 3) the cutscenes in those two dungeons are not even that important.

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How can you say that with a straight face? It is the climax of a 50 levels long journey.
Of course they are important.

I always skip them because 1. I don't like the idea of people having to wait for me, 2. I know I can watch them later, 3. I am impatient to start the fight myself.

Honestly I think it would be pretty bad to force everyone to wait for you, the ability to watch it in the inn is there for a reason. But I can only speak from my own point of view, and I don't feel the story is ruined for me at all. If it does get ruined for others, that is too bad, but as a lot of people are saying: The dev team seems to have learned.

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Originally Posted by Scorcher24

How can you say that with a straight face? It is the climax of a 50 levels long journey.
Of course they are important.

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Actually she's mostly correct as about half, or a little under, are just little scene transitions that probably could have been done without going to a cutscene in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Scorcher24

How can you say that with a straight face? It is the climax of a 50 levels long journey.
Of course they are important.

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Because half of them are your character looking over their shoulder or don't have anything to do with characters at all.

Now, some absolutely are, namely, the last few in Prae, but pretty much all of the ones in CM are time wasters.

Wrong the cut-scene in the inn are condensed version of the orginal. People really need to quite lying to these new players, the full cut-scene can only be viewed while in the dungeon.
Second if you are in a dungeon with new players you are receiveing a bonus for your time spent there,you didn't skip the cut-scenes when you first ran it so why should they.
Third if there are new players in the instance and you lock them out of certain fights you automatically forfeit your bonus Tombs and are instantly eject from the dungeon and replaced by the system.
Fourth -The reward for you helping those new players should be increased by about 4-500 tombs that way you are rewarded for your time.
When running those dungeon as the party leader I have booted players for locking other out of those fights because it is considered harassment.

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Originally Posted by Melondra

Wrong the cut-scene in the inn are condensed version of the orginal. People really need to quite lying to these new players, the full cut-scene can only be viewed while in the dungeon.

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The cutscenes are all absolutely viewable in the inn. They're just under Duties, not Main Scenario. I went in undersized solo and didn't see a single one I couldn't see in the inn room so please point one out.

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Originally Posted by Melondra

Wrong the cut-scene in the inn are condensed version of the orginal. People really need to quite lying to these new players, the full cut-scene can only be viewed while in the dungeon.

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The only dungeon cutscene I remember that can't be viewed in the Inn is the one right before the final boss in Totorak when you first do it, and if anyone knows that I'm wrong on this they can correct me. As Doluka said all the CM and Prae cutscenes are viewable in the Duties part of the viewer.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

The only dungeon cutscene I remember that can't be viewed in the Inn is the one right before the final boss in Totorak when you first do it, and if anyone knows that I'm wrong on this they can correct me.

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I actually thought this as well for the longest time, but I found the Lahabrea scene under main scenario. It's Cutscene number 1 in "Into the Beast's Maw."

Which is really, really wierd. Why would it not be in Duties? It's the only mid-dungeon exception in the game, I think. What makes it even stranger is that there are two different versions of the final boss intro in that dungeon because of this.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

I actually thought this as well for the longest time, but I found the Lahabrea scene under main scenario. It's Cutscene number 1 in "Into the Beast's Maw."

Which is really, really wierd. Why would it not be in Duties? It's the only mid-dungeon exception in the game, I think. What makes it even stranger is that there are two different versions of the final boss intro in that dungeon because of this.

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1.) Yay it actually has been found! 2.) Its probably because they did two different boss intros that the scene in question is under Main Scenario then...which yes is wierd, though I guess they thought it would be wierd to have the Ascian one always be the boss intro? Now that I think about it I don't remember if Stone Vigil is the same about that, since it was also Lahabrea involved in getting that boss up to attack. Been so long since I've actually watched it.

I do agree that people should be able to watch the cs as they happen. I dont follow lore, to me it is meaningless, I want my gear/reward only BUT that doesnt mean I wont wait for those that enjoy cs to watch them, I never sign up unless I have ample time to do any variation of a dungeon from a fast speed run , to the "lets kill everything...ok? or "oops gotta go eat brb O.o "

Now for the reality of life....se blundered by "assuming" everyone would not be rushed. The fact they thought this in 2016 is mind boggling...truly it is. smh. (I wish their thinking was reality!!!, but come on...how naive can they be? :rolleyes:)

The fact that extreme cs will probably never make it to a raid or dungeon again is a good thing, the less the better and less chance for ppl on both sides to get upset. I would rather both get along.
They should always ensure excellent cs experiences are there for those that enjoy them either before entering a dungeon for the first time or after exiting (or both) If they follow this simple idea, then most will be satisfied.

Unless they go back and change the old offenders, this topic will pop up time and time again, however the solution will always be the same, no matter how many times it is talked about. Form a party of like minded people if watching cs is a must....if thats not possible then be ready to possibly be rushed. Is it right?...no, but it is reality. The reality of your fellow gaming population AND the reality of what se is willing to do.

This is one "problem" that will never go away unless like I said, they change old content and move the lore cs outside the raids/dungeons. They should do this just to be rid of the issue...but they wont.

People wont change, se will not change.

Tbh the blame is on SE on this one. You can't really blame the playerbase for not wanting to sit around for 30+ minutes of cut-scenes they've already seen just for a new player. Especially so since the new players in those instances are still a minority. I remember I felt pretty pissed about missing the boss fights on my first Praetorium run, but thinking about it now, I wouldn't want to have 7 other people waiting our for half an hour just for the sake of MY convenience. I have seen the actual boss fights numerous times afterwards, so I can't feel too bad about missing a few filler boss fights on my initial run.

SE has since then revised their policy on the matter. We no longer luckily get long cut-scenes in the middle of dungeons. I don't mind waiting a couple of minutes on Aetherochemical Research Facility for people to enjoy their cut-scenes. But if it was 30+ minutes worth of cut-scenes again? I don't think many people would feel inclined to run it at all.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

SE can't really change the old MSQ dungeons, as it would require them to redesign them into a single-player instance (the only possible way for you to watch and experience the dungeons at the same time, without having other players wait for you or speed off without you). As others have said, though, it is only those two dungeons. It is a shame that most players have to skip cutscenes in order to experience the dungeon (or vice versa), but it's just a small blemish and you'll most likely forget about the bad experience sooner or later.

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If it were some random couple of leveling dungeons that had this problem, that might be true. But it's not. These two dungeons form the climax of the entire story. That's why they have so many cutscenes in the first place, because what happens there is so absolutely essential to the game's story. For everybody who plays primarily for the story (which is a great many FF players, it being such a story-focused franchise), a bad run on these dungeons doesn't just ruin those couple runs. It ruins the *entire* game. That's not the sort of thing people are going to just brush off in a year or two.

SE needs to fix these so that players can actually get that climactic story. If redesigning them into solo (or solo-able) instances is what it takes (and maybe it is - I can't think of a better way), then that's what they need to do.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

they fixed their mistake for future dungeons

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Well, they avoided repeating the mistake again. I guess that's good to some extent, but it's not the same as fixing it. These two dungeons are still the most important part of the game, and they're still broken. The fact that they're old doesn't change either of those two facts, it just indicates that SE is already really late on fixing the problem.

I say this every time a topic like this pops up but I'll say it again. For Castrum and Praetorium, add an extra checkbox option that allows players to voluntarily accept a variant of the dungeons where party members are locked from progressing while cutscenes are in play. In order to coerce high-level players into continuing to accept such lengthy runs, double if not triple the tome reward for players who accept such terms. That way, everyone knows what they are getting into. Speed runs are still possible for anyone unwilling to dedicate that much time to MSQ:R, long runs are still easily populated by people interested in the heightened efficiency of Reward vs. Time Invested.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Exactly.

I'd think this is common sense. People who don't want to be supportive of new players shouldn't be queing up for story dungeons.

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Sorry, but are you telling me that because I que for the MSQ roulette that I am doing so because I want to be supportive of new players? Uh no, I'm queing to get my tomes. As simple as that. For the same reason I don't que for the Leveling roulette to help others level, it's so high level players have INCENTIVE to que for that old content. Now, does that mean I'm not willing to help others during said runs? Absolutely not. But just as you all like to complain it's rude to rush runs and skip cutscenes, it's equally rude for you to expect seven other people to wait because YOU want to watch cutscenes on something we have run hundreds of times.

What I do for MSQ roulette is I tell new people right off the bat that it is OKAY if they want to watch cutscenes. But you will get left behind and locked out of fights.

And obviously dungeons are a different story, if people need help and ask for it then I'm more than willing to do so. Full clear? Need explanation of mechanics or fights? I will gladly help. Because in dungeons even the easiest of dungeons can be difficult if someone doesn't know the fight or mechanics.

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Originally Posted by NegativeCreep

Sorry, but are you telling me that because I que for the MSQ roulette that I am doing so because I want to be supportive of new players? Uh no, I'm queing to get my tomes. As simple as that.

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You get those tomes as a reward for supporting new players. That's the reason roulettes were added to the game in the first place, to ensure that dungeons continue getting run regularly so that new players get a chance to do them. It's also (and even more blatantly) the reason having a first time player in your party means you get even more tomes as a reward for helping them.

To say you do it for the tomes and not to help other players is like saying you go to work for the paycheck and not for helping the company you work for or their customers. Though all too often that may be true, it's irrelevant. If you agree to do something for a reward, then you can't turn around and say you shouldn't have to do that something, but just get the reward without it. When you have a job, you're expected to actually do the work associated with that job. That's what you're getting paid for. When you run main scenario roulette (or leveling roulette, or whatever), you're expected to actually do the full run of that roulette. That's what you're getting a tome reward for.

Whether you want to do a full run or not, you already agreed to by queuing for the dungeon or roulette. It's too late to decide you won't once you get there.

Story is better played out as stuff happens. We need "less" cutscenes in video games.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Story is better played out as stuff happens. We need "less" cutscenes in video games.

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I love watching cutscenes. I just don't love watching someone else watch cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

These two dungeons are still the most important part of the game, and they're still broken. The fact that they're old doesn't change either of those two facts, it just indicates that SE is already really late on fixing the problem.

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That's an opinion, not a fact. I barely even remember the cutscenes in those two dungeons and many people have stated they much prefer the Heavensward storyline to the ARR one.

Of course they're not fixed, but the reason I related them being old content to not being fixed is because SE have priorities, and fixing the cutscene placement in two extremely old dungeons is not something high on that list. The "fix" the OP suggested doesn't guarantee to solve the problem and could potentially be very counter-productive. There's nothing SE can do to completely fix the problem without risk unless they redesign the entire placement of cutscenes in those dungeons. That's not something they're going to prioritise.

Didn't think this would still be an issue, everyone needs to stop with this "but me me me".

Once Square decided to slap "MMO" on the title things changed it's not a single player anymore, you're going to have a lot of non FF players here that only enjoy the mmo part. The obvious solution is to simply do the "majority rules" with each dungeon. That's only fair, if most people want to watch a cut scene, either wait or drop out. If you're the only one that wants to watch a cut-scene either watch it in the inn or drop out.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

If you agree to do something for a reward, then you can't turn around and say you shouldn't have to do that something, but just get the reward without it.

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But they are doing what they agreed to do - running the dungeon. Main Scenario Roulette does not have a warning when you sign up that you must watch the cutscenes or you must wait for any new people to watch the cutscenes before you progress. The dungeon allows you to move forward, so people are going to move forward. Honestly, I still advocate the unsynced run with a couple of level 60 friends that are willing to let you watch the cutscenes as the best way to complete these. You don't have to deal with Duty Finder, so you don't have to deal with the inevitable compromise with 7 random people that have their own agendas.

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When you have a job, you're expected to actually do the work associated with that job. That's what you're getting paid for. When you run main scenario roulette (or leveling roulette, or whatever), you're expected to actually do the full run of that roulette. That's what you're getting a tome reward for.

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You're getting the tome reward for completing the dungeon, period. The bonus tomes can be easily justified either way - either you are rewarded for taking extra time, or you are rewarded for completing the dungeon's objectives while short a person. There is no "you must complete it this way" clause that specifies that you have to kill everything or watch all of the cutscenes. If SE had wanted that from the start, they could've easily designed it that way. The Main Scenario Roulette was implemented so that those dungeons see enough traffic for new people to get into them and complete them. In that sense, they are working as intended. The problem is, the intention doesn't hold up to the test of time. The blame is solely on SE for the design flaws in these dungeons and at this point all we can really do is be glad they haven't repeated their mistakes and work around them the best we can.

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Whether you want to do a full run or not, you already agreed to by queuing for the dungeon or roulette. It's too late to decide you won't once you get there.

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No, actually, you didn't. You agreed to complete the dungeon (and even that is up in the air since you can simply leave and eat your 30 minute penalty if you don't like what you landed in). As mentioned earlier in this post, with Duty Finder being what it is, there's going to be some degree of compromise to be had depending on the group you land in. Land in a group of 7 new people watching cutscenes? Welp, better suck it up and get ready to either tab out for some cat videos or enjoy your 30 minute penalty. Land in a group of speed runners ready to sanic stomp it into the floor? Better tie your running shoes. It's just as selfish for a single newbie to ask 7 veterans to wait around while they watch cutscenes as it is for a single veteran to ask 7 newbies to skip them.

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Sorry, but are you telling me that because I que for the MSQ roulette that I am doing so because I want to be supportive of new players? Uh no, I'm queing to get my tomes. As simple as that.

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As another poster already pointed out, the reason this is part of the roulette is to be of service to new players. Tome rewards were increased in the story roulette because, at first, people weren't doing the roulette because of the lengthy cutscene times.

So, yes... the current rewards literally account for the opportunity cost of people chilling out and not being D-canoes.

Don't you have more than enough other roulettes to farm your tomes without ruining the storyline for new players, the game's lifeblood?

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Originally Posted by Terribad

The obvious solution is to simply do the "majority rules" with each dungeon. That's only fair, if most people want to watch a cut scene, either wait or drop out. If you're the only one that wants to watch a cut-scene either watch it in the inn or drop out.

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Unfortunately this doesn't work because even if 7 people want to run the dungeon quickly, they're still expected to kiss the butt of the new player. Don't get me wrong, I've said countless times on here that I'm willing to help, I'm a Mentor, and I'd let people watch the cutscenes. But this whole attitude of "I'm new and I'm giving you tomes and you should let me do what I want because I'm a new player" is just a joke. The tomes are incentive to run the dungeon and that alone, you are not entitled to anything because you are new and older players are not obligated to stand there and let you watch every cutscene if they don't want to.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

As another poster already pointed out, the reason this is part of the roulette is to be of service to new players.

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Again, the tome reward is for queuing for the dungeon and completing it alone. Nowhere does it state before queuing that you have to cater to new players in any way.Queuing for the dungeon is the service in itself.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

But this whole attitude of "I'm new and I'm giving you tomes and you should let me do what I want because I'm a new player"

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I know what you mean, which is why I addressed both sides, it's funny that new people act that way when the old people re running it are the main reason they're even able to do the dungeon.

Square really messed up when they decided to make a MMO but design it at the core like a single player. Both parties just need to realize not everything will be their way.

Sidenote: Does no one ask their LS/FC/Friends/use PF any more? Like that's one of the beauties of MMOs, you can ask for help ya know? It's not going to kill you to be sociable.

But why even do the main scenario roulette unless you have time to let new players watch cutscenes?

Seriously, it's so dang easy to get tomes in this game, do you REALLY need to spam that roulette too? Based on my experiences in the main story roulette, a large number of veteran players are totally cool with letting newbies watch cutscenes... so if you don't want to watch cutscenes, why risk ruining anyone's good time? Just stay out of it. That roulette isn't meant for you!

In a week from now, you won't remember a single detail about that Prea run. But a new player who is allowed to watch the cutscenes as intended will gain a memory that will last for as long as he plays the game -- or longer. Are your extra few tomes really worth ruining that?

And by "you," I'm not talking at anyone specifically. But YOU know who you are!

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Sidenote: Does no one ask their LS/FC/Friends/use PF any more? Like that's one of the beauties of MMOs, you can ask for help ya know? It's not going to kill you to be sociable.

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Because all of us veterans are so overgeared -- and because everything in the duty finder is so easily beaten -- I don't think newer players have much incentive or reason to find friends/linkshells/FCs at the lower levels. But that's just my theory.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

But why even do the main scenario roulette unless you have time to let new players watch cutscenes?

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Because people want tomes, when you add the tome system to a game and keep reusing it (one of the reasons why I hate tome systems) people are going to go the fastest route. Regardless of what the route was intended for. Besides when this game re-released this was still an issue, some people new and old don't want to watch cut scenes. No one is "ruining" anything, go watch it in the inn, ask for help, create your own pf, watch it on youtube. Options are out there.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

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As far as I see it, the tomes bonus is the reward for giving quick access to MSQ dungeons. If not for the bonus, new players would be waiting hours for these fights as the content is so incredibly old and a waste of time outside of said bonus. Receiving a bonus does not mean you are now bound by some contract to give a full clear and watch ~30 minutes of CSs. Only requirement is that you clear the dungeon.

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No one is "ruining" anything, go watch it in the inn, ask for help, create your own pf, watch it on youtube.

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You MUST know that this isn't the same as watching the storyline unfold, in the dungeon, as it's meant to... in proper sequence and setting the tone for the dungeon and the fights.

What you're proposing is like watching some parts of a movie, and then later watching the other parts that you didn't watch before, but without any context for anything. That's totally not the same and, yes, you are ruining the intended impact of the storyline. Unquestionably.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

In a week from now, you won't remember a single detail about that Prea run. But a new player who is allowed to watch the cutscenes as intended will gain a memory that will last for as long as he plays the game -- or longer. Are your extra few tomes really worth ruining that?

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Remove the tome incentive and who is even going to run that dungeon other than the people who need it? This is just common sense. And to the comment about staying out of the roulette - most people don't even DO that roulette in the first place. Why do you think those dungeons take so long to pop? Do you really want to remove the little amount of people who queue it?

Also, as I've said multiple times, I don't even remember the cutscenes from those dungeons. They certainly didn't stick with me. Please stop assuming every new player is going to treasure and cherish these cutscenes because I guarantee the majority will have forgotten them when they reach Heavensward.

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Remove the tome incentive and who is even going to run that dungeon other than the people who need it?

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I already addressed this.

When the main scenario roulette was first added, people weren't doing it because of the cutscenes -- and when people did do it, there was massive drama over people skipping cutscenes. So SE responded by increasing the size of the tome reward to give people an incentive to do this and be patient.

People have small memories and big needs though.

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Also, as I've said multiple times, I don't even remember the cutscenes from those dungeons. They certainly didn't stick with me. Please stop assuming every new player is going to treasure and cherish these cutscenes because I guarantee the majority will have forgotten them when they reach Heavensward.

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Please stop using your misguided assumptions as justification for being a D-canoe to new players.

Here's an idea.... why not ask the new player if he'd be OK with watching cutscenes later in the Inn room? If the new player would rather watch them live, then be like, "OK, that's fine. You're not like me, but that's common sense... not everyone is like me." Or, if the new player is cool with that, be like, "SLAYER!!! Let's rock!"

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Originally Posted by Thayos

I already addressed this.

When the main scenario roulette was first added, people weren't doing it because of the cutscenes -- and when people did do it, there was massive drama over people skipping cutscenes. So SE responded by increasing the size of the tome reward to give people an incentive to do this and be patient.

People have small memories and big needs though.

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Yet some players have said no amount of tomes is going to make them run that roulette if they have to twiddle their thumbs every 5 minutes while someone watches a cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Here's an idea.... why not ask the new player if he'd be OK with watching cutscenes later in the Inn room? If the new player would rather watch them live, then be like, "OK, that's fine. You're not like me, but that's common sense... not everyone is like me." Or, if the new player is cool with that, be like, "SLAYER!!! Let's rock!"

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That's rich, because I must have stated in this thread around 3 times that I already let players watch the cutscenes. The whole reason I'm arguing this thread is because it will do more harm than good to new players.

People have small memories and big needs though.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

intended impact of the storyline.

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Again, once Square decided to slap "MMO" on the title, it became that and majority of MMO players don't care about the story line. YOU are the one that isn't getting their way, so instead of complaining about it, why not come up with solutions for it? Most of the people that runs those MSQ roulettes don't stop to watch cut-scenes, if what you wanted came true (People that don't care about CS stopped running it) you wouldn't even be able to enter the dungeon. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

So either create your own solution or stop expecting randos to play how YOU want them to play.

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That's rich, because I must have stated in this thread around 3 times that I already let players watch the cutscenes. The whole reason I'm arguing this thread is because it will do more harm than good to new players.

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In that case, good for you! My beef isn't with your kind.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

But why even do the main scenario roulette unless you have time to let new players watch cutscenes?

Seriously, it's so dang easy to get tomes in this game, do you REALLY need to spam that roulette too? Based on my experiences in the main story roulette, a large number of veteran players are totally cool with letting newbies watch cutscenes... so if you don't want to watch cutscenes, why risk ruining anyone's good time? Just stay out of it. That roulette isn't meant for you!

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Because 120 poetics + a potential 100 poetics bonus is pretty appealing. Add to that the fact that you can run it on any level 50+ class so you can do double duty by getting exp while you get your tomes and it's like candy for completionists.

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In a week from now, you won't remember a single detail about that Prea run. But a new player who is allowed to watch the cutscenes as intended will gain a memory that will last for as long as he plays the game -- or longer. Are your extra few tomes really worth ruining that?

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I never stop new people from watching the cutscenes. I have been in a few parties where the majority of people wanted to let the new person watch the cutscene, and the rest of us just sat around and BS'ed while we waited. I've been in far more parties where the newbies are told at the beginning that they can watch the cutscenes if they wish but they will probably miss the boss fights.

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Because all of us veterans are so overgeared -- and because everything in the duty finder is so easily beaten -- I don't think newer players have much incentive or reason to find friends/linkshells/FCs at the lower levels. But that's just my theory.

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I dunno, I feel that newbies should be encouraged to acclimate themselves early on and learn to talk to people and make friends ingame. That's why when I run into newer players while leveling or some such, I chat with them and if they seem to be okay with it, I make sure to add them as a friend if they aren't already in my FC or a linkshell I'm in. It's not much of a time investment for me as they don't usually send a tell unless they have questions, but I feel it's an important thing to actually have a tangible point of contact, a name that you can come back to that you know belongs to someone that's willing to help you out. It's a way to kind of nudge them toward using that friend list on their own with people they meet in the open world doing FATEs or hunts or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

That's the reason roulettes were added to the game in the first place, to ensure that dungeons continue getting run regularly so that new players get a chance to do them. It's also (and even more blatantly) the reason having a first time player in your party means you get even more tomes as a reward for helping them.

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So basically you're confirming everything I just said. But tell me, how many times would you run CM and PT a week to help and be supportive of new players? Including a full clear and watching every cutscene if there was no tomes attached? My guess is zero. There is nothing to support in those dungeons or learn because they will never be fixed to make them difficult again. So back to my point, if one person wants to watch all 30 plus minutes of cutscenes then that's fine. But I am not going to make myself and six other people wait for ONE person. It's not like they are not going to run them a hundred times over.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I love watching cutscenes. I just don't love watching someone else watch cutscenes.

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You can make "whats happening" as you walk through the dungeon and kill things. It makes it more immersive anyways.

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Originally Posted by Terribad

Once Square decided to slap "MMO" on the title things changed it's not a single player anymore, you're going to have a lot of non FF players here that only enjoy the mmo part. The obvious solution is to simply do the "majority rules" with each dungeon. That's only fair, if most people want to watch a cut scene, either wait or drop out. If you're the only one that wants to watch a cut-scene either watch it in the inn or drop out.

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If you're going to party with other players, then you need to make sure that all players in the group get what they're there for. That's what being multi-player is all about, working together. If everybody has the same goal, then you can go directly for that goal. If different members have different goals, then you go for each of them until everybody's goals are met.

If the only goal anybody has is to reach the end and get their completion rewards, then a speedrun works fine. If you've got 1 person who is in a dungeon to level up and wants every bit of XP available, while another person is trying to see the story, and another person is there for loot, and another is just there for the completion reward, then you go through the entire dungeon, watching any cutscenes involved for the story driven player, killing every mob for the XP driven player, looting every chest for the loot driven player and you'll eventually reach the end for the rewards driven player. That way, everyone gets what they're there for. It has nothing to do with numbers or which side is the majority. That's irrelevant. It's about reaching *everybody's* goals. And yes, that may take more time than just going directly for your own, but that's what teamwork is about. If you don't want to work on everybody else's goals, then stick to single player games or single player content in multi-player games.

The other way to focus on your own goals, while still having a multi-player element to the game, is to make sure you don't end up in a party with others who may have different goals. If you want a speedrun, form a party with like-minded players so you know none of them want anything else there. If you do a random party in DF (including any roulettes), then accept that other players might have different goals, and the only way you can consider the run successful is if you complete their goals too, even if it's for only 1 other player.

If you don't want to form a party of like-minded players, and instead are more interested in the rewards roulette gives you for going with a random group, then suck it up and accept that you're in a random group and can't run towards your own goals exclusively. It may take extra time to meet other goals you don't even share, but that's what you signed up for. Don't be a douche bag and ruin other people's game just because of it.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

I say this every time a topic like this pops up but I'll say it again. For Castrum and Praetorium, add an extra checkbox option that allows players to voluntarily accept a variant of the dungeons where party members are locked from progressing while cutscenes are in play.

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It already exists. Its called Party finder- you can set rules such as "no cutscene skipping" You set the rules, with that comes expectations. There is no good reason to make a core game setting that disables freedom of progression when the window of its applicability is so narrow.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

In order to coerce high-level players into continuing to accept such lengthy runs, double if not triple the tome reward for players who accept such terms. That way, everyone knows what they are getting into. Speed runs are still possible for anyone unwilling to dedicate that much time to MSQ:R, long runs are still easily populated by people interested in the heightened efficiency of Reward vs. Time Invested.

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Uh, that will have the reverse effect. In fact, it already has been adjusted in a similar fashion, and DID have the reverse effect... So they ultimately went back to the lower, more balanced, tome values.
2, 3? how about 10 times-- See how aggressively people will spam the dungeon and make use of the tome fountain for personal profit.

Forcing the majority to do something other than what the majority wants to do, creates a boycott of said content. Good luck with the grand return of pre-DF queues when that day arrives.

TLDR: if you are a minority member not getting what you think you deserve, find a group of willing participants so that you are no longer queueing as part of a minority. You can find 4 like-minded people, right? Right?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

You can make "whats happening" as you walk through the dungeon and kill things. It makes it more immersive anyways.

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I personally dislike it when games do this. I find I am too focused on gameplay and less focused on the story, and consequently miss out on the story.