The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why (Ver. 2)

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Originally Posted by ShienSarvong

I very rarely use Dissipation. Almost every other tool in my box of scholar tricks gets regular use. The big exception, though, is Summon. Selene is almost a permanent fixture in my dungeons and raids. I have very little use for Eos other than an occasional Fey Illumination + Rouse + Whispering Dawn HoT bomb. That might be very silly of me, but between Fey Caress and Fey Wind, I find Selene kind of essential.

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You're not the first person I've heard say this. I don't use Sch myself (yet), but I was in a Raid recently where practically everyone was commenting on how useless Eos is by comparison to Selene. It was a funny conversation, so I figured that they were just having a go, but since then I've heard more than a few others comment that they almost never use Eos over Selene.

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Originally Posted by Februs

You're not the first person I've heard say this. I don't use Sch myself (yet), but I was in a Raid recently where practically everyone was commenting on how useless Eos is by comparison to Selene. It was a funny conversation, so I figured that they were just having a go, but since then I've heard more than a few others comment that they almost never use Eos over Selene.

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Those guys haven't done real end-game raid progression then. Eos advantage is being able to effectively "heal" while straight DPSing as Scholar. Plus practically being able to throw up regens on the tanks without ever leaving cleric stance. Fey Covenant is such a good magic buff for many of the heavy magic damage fights in the game, including Thordan Extreme and Alexander Savage. Accidents happen, and that buff can effectively help someone to live on a mechanic that probably could have been their death. This is the Scholar's bread-and-butter: Mitigation.

Dissipation is also seen as a DPS skill as well, because 9 energy drains available is hard to turn down and there are plenty of instances where a fairy isn't needed for 30+ seconds in a fight, or maybe you are looking to change fairies anyway. It's not always about the healing buff, but rather the DPS advantage or just needing energy drain in a pinch.

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Originally Posted by technole

Those guys haven't done real end-game raid progression then. Eos advantage is being able to effectively "heal" while straight DPSing as Scholar.

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It's possible they were just kidding around as well. I got the impression that a few of them knew each other and the conversation was pretty funny to read. I wouldn't know one way or the other though, since I've never used Sch myself. If I do take it up, it's good to know that Eos has Raid utility. I'm assuming this works out best if your co-healer is running a role opposite of yours? (Ie: active mitigation via direct healing as opposed to mitigation buffs)

I don't raid (by choice) so this is speaking to uses outside endgame content. I haven't used Repose on my whm bar since I first ran Brayflox. Most groups I run through with now just burn everything. In fact, a lot of dungeons are grab it all and burn. So I also don't find as much use for spells that take too long to cast. I end up using Aero I instead of III due to the speed. I find I don't use Asylum much outside bosses because it gets wasted with how fast things die. I don't use Fluid Aura in a party. I use it all the time while soloing.

I want to use Miasma II but it seems unless I'm right up in the middle of the mobs (where the tank should be) it fails. I end up using Miasma, Bio, Bio II and then Baneing. I only use Ruin I if I'm synced and absolutely have to.

I use Stella on the ast while out soloing. PoM and Lightspeed I utilize while soloing. But I often forget about them in groups. All of these skills are still somewhere on my hotbars. They just aren't in the key slots.

Disipation, Why would I EVER want to sac my lovely Selene for an Aetherflow stack?

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Originally Posted by Elizasylen

Disipation, Why would I EVER want to sac my lovely Selene for an Aetherflow stack?

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Cause you can show off your pro scholar skills and look at it from a different perspective.

Cure 3, because it's so much MP still at 60. I barely use it in anything above level 50 dungeons. I don't know why. I just use medica 2, or Medica, and it's usually enough. Even with the lessen MP cost perk from spamming Cure 2. Idk, I just barely use it these days. Maybe if they lessened the MP cost, I'd use it more. :c

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Originally Posted by RadiantRay

Cure 3 - Way to situational, cost way too much mp, medica 2 is better because the game almost never follows up huge raid dmg with more raid dmg, and it's radius is abysmal I rather not risk using it. Only use I have seen for it was when i needed to range aoe heal a pack of guys who just so happen to be together AND all low hp or during the first phase of Thordan if my co-healer lets me solo

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I use cure III when overcure is procced and I don't have the free cure II proc up and there's AOE damage to heal since it drops the cost in half and can heal multiple over cure II, more than medica and can be targeted unlike medica. And unlike Medica II the heal is infull right away so if it's multiple AOE bursts Medica II isn't always best alone.

It's not a bad spell, it just gets used wrong all the time like SMN using Ruin III outside of dreadworm trance or a MNK not doing Positional.


Dissipation on SCH though. It's there on my bar... Never had a need or reason to use it other than to scream "DIE SELENE DIE!!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAAA!"

Whatever that bind skill is on BRD and MCH. It's so short-lived it's virtually worthless; I never use it.

Cure 3 could be good if incoming damage wasn't tuned to what all healers could handle. Since it is, skills outside of the overlap of all 3 healers is probably going to be a niche spell.

My personal vote is stoneskin though. During combat that extra 10% is not worth the steep mp cost, and the effect is minor enough that tanks won't even wait for the cast of stoneskin 2 to finish before engaging bosses.

I also think they could get rid of protect. I personally find it silly to add a 30 minute buff that all healers have to cross class. Nothing about this skill adds to the game.

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Originally Posted by Ersahi

CMy personal vote is stoneskin though. During combat that extra 10% is not worth the steep mp cost

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Before they nerfed WHM's Stoneskin, there were definitely times it was worth it, usually on tank busters. Sometimes you still use it that way. I also use it when people have vulnerability stacks and an AOE is coming.

SE really dropped the ball with WHM and Stoneskin, though.
Let's math it out. Post iLevel 205, you're going to be doing 3400-3500 per cure. That's 400ish MP. The average Strength tank at that iLevel is around 17k, I believe? So with the nerfed SS, you're only getting 1.7K damage mitigation for 800 MP. Even with Graniteskin returned to us, you're getting the effect of one Cure I with your SS, but at twice the MP cost.

There was no reason to nerf WHM's mitigation, especially with Adlo as extremely powerful as it is and Astro able to do instant-shields for more than WHM can Stoneskin for, which are absolutely, undeniably useful, given both jobs can cast SS as well.

Not sure if it was mentioned yet, since there are lots of pages to scroll through...but Stella as AST. Never used, not even once.

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Originally Posted by PennyBlossom

Not sure if it was mentioned yet, since there are lots of pages to scroll through...but Stella as AST. Never used, not even once.

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Some people say it's a great skill on PVP. But I don't use it either...
IMO, Stella should be instant cast. It would make the skill awesome!

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Originally Posted by Februs

Dispel takes forever. It's a short cast bar, but single casting every. Single. Person. in the group is a pain in the butt, especially in high Dmg situations. Sometimes you just don't have the time to do it before you have to get back to saving the Tank. Once I found out what Fey Caress did, I started resenting Sch's who don't use it and sat on their thumbs watching me frantically try to dispel everyone individually when they could have just as easily hit one button and been done with it.

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The problem is when people are so spread out that even if you try and center Selene in the group to use Fey Caress, you only end up clearing the status effects of like, one person, because everyone else is super far away.

God I hate healing in Void Ark.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Before they nerfed WHM's Stoneskin, there were definitely times it was worth it, usually on tank busters. Sometimes you still use it that way. I also use it when people have vulnerability stacks and an AOE is coming. SE really dropped the ball with WHM and Stoneskin, though.

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Totally agree with this.

Stone skin is still super useful for tank busters, because 10% of a Tanks health is nothing to shake a stick at. I'm always grateful to see an extra SS popped on me in anticipation of a heavenly heel or a Holy Blade Dance, because it saves me from having to use additional CDs or worry about taking the full hit. However, the nerf SE gave to stone skin was tremendously unjustified and ridiculous. A Pld's Divine Veil can actually be more useful than a Whn's stone skin on any target than other than War's, because divine veil scales 10% of the casting Pld's Hp, not the target's Hp. That's just not acceptable. It's still very useful, but I'll never understand why they decided to nerf it.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

The problem is when people are so spread out that even if you try and center Selene in the group to use Fey Caress, you only end up clearing the status effects of like, one person, because everyone else is super far away.

God I hate healing in Void Ark.

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It's not really a big an issue in controlled fights. In Extreme level Trials or 8-man Raids, there are several instances in which players group up. During Thor Ex, for example, almost everyone should be stacking in the middle after conviction towers go out, to kill the centre knight. Casters are the only possible exception. So, if Paralyze goes off cuz someone was a twat and missed a tower, there's really no reason for a Sch to miss anyone.

24-man raids, on the other hand, are awful. Pretty much any semblance of order or organization goes right out the window. It's pretty much the exception to any rule for any job in the entire game.

Respose - I use this skill to do Dragonskin Maps (8 man) with a friend (WAR).
Cure III - awesome skill that - even situational - can save lifes without much effort.

I never use Stone I/II unless synced. Since healers have zero accurracy I miss Stone I much too often to slow in A3S reliable >.<

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Originally Posted by Februs

It's not really a big an issue in controlled fights. In Extreme level Trials or 8-man Raids, there are several instances in which players group up. During Thor Ex, for example, almost everyone should be stacking in the middle after conviction towers go out, to kill the centre knight. Casters are the only possible exception. So, if Paralyze goes off cuz someone was a twat and missed a tower, there's really no reason for a Sch to miss anyone.

24-man raids, on the other hand, are awful. Pretty much any semblance of order or organization goes right out the window. It's pretty much the exception to any rule for any job in the entire game.

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Ah yeah it's a really good spell in organized parties. I was mostly replying to your comment of SCHs not using it in Void Ark when there's heavy raidwide status ailments. I've found it to be such a great tool for the first fight in Void Ark, though, since the boss's AoEs force the whole raid to stack up together. Most of the times, a single Caress will heal the dropsies or paralyze people eat.

Cuchulainn on the other hand... -_-

I don't know why people are trying to defend stoneskin.

Out of every healing or mitigation tool in the game, it's hands down the worst when comparing effect, mp efficiency, and gcd use. It's the definition of "bottom feeder."

I want to say Repose. It's been useful for CCing ranged mobs while the rest of the party is dealing with melee but I wouldn't miss it if it was taken off my action bar.

As a PLD off tanking A4, I can stoneskin myself and take all the orbs on one side while running full str. It's pretty useful.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

As a PLD off tanking A4, I can stoneskin myself and take all the orbs on one side while running full str. It's pretty useful.

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Better off just popping convo and other cooldowns like Rampart/Sentinel to eat, Clemency if you must. Use bloodbath and minor cooldowns only for containment.

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Originally Posted by Ersahi

I don't know why people are trying to defend stoneskin.

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What if the fight is going well, nobody needs heals at the moment, there is no need for you to DPS, and you have full mana? Wouldn't casting it be better than not?

What if you know a high-damage attack is coming up, you have time to cast it, and you have mana to spare? Why not cast it to help reduce the probability of losing someone?

What if you're in Leviathan Extreme, and you need to heal the tank that has Briny Veil? Sure, you can use Regen to heal without receiving the debuff, but it won't be enough on its own, so Stoneskin is a perfectly reasonable way to additionally reduce damage on the tail tank without taking on any stacks from Briny Veil.

Stoneskin is not a healing replacement, but there are times when you can use it effectively. Just because it costs more and blocks less damage than a heal is no reason to eschew it entirely.

WHM Stoneskin Pre-3.0 was good for a lot of things, and often times necessary. Today, the 10% version for the cost of a Cure II it's pretty much on the low-end of efficiency now. Mainly for covering weaknesses, or if you have an extra GCD to spare. WHM is mostly out of the mitigation business in-exchange for many instant heals and allowing AST to fit in the fold.

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Originally Posted by technole

WHM Stoneskin Pre-3.0 was good for a lot of things, and often times necessary. Today, the 10% version for the cost of a Cure II it's pretty much on the low-end of efficiency now. Mainly for covering weaknesses, or if you have an extra GCD to spare. WHM is mostly out of the mitigation business in-exchange for many instant heals and allowing AST to fit in the fold.

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For Whm's, yes. This is true. However, I still think Stone Skin is a very useful ability. It just happens to see more use from Pld's than it does from healers, at the moment.

Pld's can use Stone Skin to maintain their god awful Tp draw, but the main utility of the move is in how it allows the Pld to work with the healer. They can self-buff for Tank Busters, AoE's, or Cleaves instead of the healer. Self-buffing allows them to plan their defensive CD's more efficiently, because they know when they'll have Stone Skin instead of being at the mercy of the healer. They can also conserve defensive CD's for the same reason. As off-tank, a Pld can save the healer Mp by buffing the MT with Stone skin. They can also save squishier Dps from taking unnecessary damage, or save the life of a player who stands in too much stupid, without having the healer spend additional time and Mp.

Stone skin also balances well with Clemency. Depending on how scripted the fight is, a Pld can plan their Stone Skin's or Clemency's to completely free up the healer from healing one player (usually the Pld). A Pld who takes full utility of Stone Skin and Clemency often requires no action from the healer at all, giving them more time to Dps or heal someone else.

There's no doubt that Stone Skin took a huge (and extremely unnecessary) nerf after 3.0 for Whm's, but it's definitely a useful skill. It's even still useful for the healers, it's just that they see more use out of it when they're not the one actually casting it. Though, even healers can use it to extend their Dps time in Trials, Raids and dungeons if they plan it well. It's a commonly employed tactic during tight Dps checks in which it might be necessary for the healer to chip in, especially if they pair it with a Scholar's mitigation buffs.

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Originally Posted by jinx_nanamaru

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So it's "ok" for levi. The glorious use case of stoneskin.

I'm curious what content you're doing that you have full mp, no one requires any healing, and there's no DPS to do. That sounds like a time where stoneskin II would be the better case.

The entire tankbuster argument seems weak to me. All the heavensward fights are about tanks managing cooldowns to handle damage, and healers need to either be healing, DPSing, or managing mp. None of those support stoneskin use.

About the best use case I can make is that you screwed up and used clerics stance at the wrong time, and you're only tools that are full strength are benediction and stoneskin.

No, PLD stoneskin is just as bad even at lower levels which deprives them from flash use. Second, it's not a real cooldown. The long cast time also means they can misjudge a busting cast bar mechanic that needed an actual cooldown and end up killing themselves because they didn't use the right skill.

PLD stoneskin utility is only there is nothing else to do, like the boss is away like Thordan EX and Ultimate End to help someone weak. Otherwise the PLD should be hitting the boss to keep hate and keep DPS going. Even extended Clemency use is subpar with it's longer cast time that a healer can restore faster. You only get 2 casts of that skill anyway with it's huge MP cost.

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Originally Posted by technole

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That's not actually true. Firstly, Pld TP draws are extremely bad. The have no active way of restoring Tp besides using Mp abilities. Flash does zero dmg and all bosses are immune to blind, so that's a useless waste of a GCD (assuming you have solid aggro, which you should). The only other options is Stone Skin and Clemency.

Further, Flash should never, ever, under any circumstances, be used in excess in a boss fight. The Pld rotation does not have space for a wasted GCD when fully optimizing their Dps, and it has zero utility. Even if you're out of Tp and cannot maintain your rotation, you might as well stand still for 2.5 seconds and do nothing, because that's basically what Flash does. At least Stone Skin and Clemency have the potential to actually do something in that time, and neither of them interrupt your regular Buff rotation because you should still be using your buffs at planned intervals regardless.

A lot of people say that the cast bars make these two skills ineffective for Pld (and, granted, a swiftcast/surecast would be a nice QoL adjustment), but most people who say this are simply not using them right. The only excuse for having an interrupted cast bar is poor timing which comes from a lack of experience. I almost never have my cast bars interrupted as Pld, and when I do it's 100% my fault for not paying close enough attention.

Most casts of Stone Skin or Clemency are planned for parts of the fight in which the cast cannot be interrupted, and, advanced Pld's can time the cast of clemency to go off during the magic pixel of a tank buster AoE (which is actually a lot more forgiving than most people think). Given the extremely high heal potency of Clemency, I've gone through tank busters in which the healer did not have to heal me at all because my Hp was instantly restored to full immediately after the hit. It's extremely difficult to do, and takes a lot of practice, but it is possible. You can also do this several times, because Shelltron and Riot blade (which is part of the Pld MT and OT rotation) provides stretch Mp to allot for as many casts as you might need. You actually get 3 casts before you're dry, 4 on a stretch. Not sure why you'd need 4 though, because you never spam use it. Like every move in the Pld kit, it's use must be planned. Stone Skin is the same. If you plan it correctly, you can save the party a lot of extra trouble at minimal cost to your Dps (if any).

Stoneskin is not a cooldown rotation. If you did such during the Turn 13 pre-echo days to try to "make up" for a real cooldown during the Flatten cast you would have been crushed to low HP and then die to the following three flare breaths. It required a strict cooldown rotation depending on first phase DPS. Rampart/Foresight, Hallowed Ground, and Sentinel. Stoneskin was the White Mage's job with the 9% buff to land before Flatten hit for extra buffer. If you had done any coil pre-echo, you'd realize how dangerous it is to self-cast a stoneskin over scripted cooldown use. It wasn't just one hit you had to mitigate.

I even get annoyed by the PLDs tanking the knight adds in Thordan EX thinking they are a healer with their two cast skills because that is just more time their knight is still up before the switch, and even not hitting the darn thing while in Sword Oath.

Flash I said for low-level, because you don't have a large MP pool to draw from and if you have to pickup adds because of being careless with stoneskins all over the place in a short period of time, that is totally on the PLD. You don't regenerate MP as fast at low level.

There is even a reason why WAR does cross-class flash in many instances even with Overpower It's because in the chance of having to pick-up adds when pacified there is still a way to run through them and not be helpless for those seconds while they munch on the White Mage.

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Originally Posted by technole

Stoneskin is not a cooldown rotation. If you did such during the Turn 13 pre-echo days to try to "make up" for a real cooldown ...

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I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from, because I never said that Stone Skin somehow "makes up" for a Pld's real CD's. I actually said that the Pld Defensive kit is planned. It's all micro managed. You don't just stop using other Def CD's because you have a Stone Skin up. You use it with your CD's. That being said, which CD's you use will change and can be planned around the extra mitigation of Stone Skin.

Foresight, for example, is super weak and is almost always used with another CD. However, if you couple it with Stone Skin for a single hit TB it's more than enough to cover the dmg without wasting another CD that could be used later. I would never advocate using Stone Skin in place of scripted CD uses. I would recommend using it with scripted CD uses for the most efficient mitigation you can get. It's basically stretch or bonus mitigation for any Pld who actually knows how to time the cast correctly.

Secondly, Pld Dps does not make or break the Dps check in Thordan EX. They should be contributing to the check, certainly (and stance dancing accordingly), but if the Dps can't make the check because the Pld took 2 seconds to cast a Stone Skin then the problem is not with the Pld's Dps. It's with the Dps. That being said, a Pld should not be using SS during that phase of the fight anyway. It's not required, and SS has limited use on a multi-hit tank buster like Holy Blade Dance. The only time I've ever needed to self buff with SS (or even heal up with Clemency) is if the healer was asleep at the wheel. At that point, you're happy to have the skill, but it's not something a good Pld would normally work into that stage of the fight. Knowing when and where to use the move is important.

Lastly, Pld's cannot really use Stone Skin in low level dungeons, so I'm still not sure what you're going on about here. Pld's get access to SS around lvl 34. Even if they got it earlier, none of the early level dungeons or trials have any instances in which on the fly buffing with SS is useful. In dungeons, SS is a pre-buff skill for planning your pull. It basically allows you to run from one set of mobs to the next without having to worry about how much dmg you're taking in between. No Pld in their right mind would try to use SS during the actual fight, because Pld enmity is too low and, honestly, low level dungeon mobs hit like wet noodles.

Maybe you've just run into some really crappy Pld's, but the downsides you're listing for Pld's cross-classing stone skin are ways in which the move should never be used in the first place. Like I said before, there's nothing willy-nilly about the way a Pld should be using the move, and they most certainly should not be using it as a replacement for their defensive CD's. Like all of their moves, they should be micromanaging it's use to fit in and work with their defensive kit. It's the same for any tank, really. They try to find synergy in their kit for which moves work with which and in what circumstances. The only move a Pld would ever use alone is Hallowed Ground (for obvious reasons).

No, you can cross-class stoneskin in the first or second slot and have it available in lower-levels even before White Mage ever gets the skill. I can even cross-class ghetto-version of Mantra (MNK 42) on WAR/DPS in an earlier slots and it's available even all the way back at Copperbell. Regardless, Stoneskin is not a cooldown either.

Foresight ends up about an overall 6% defense on Warrior, and it has better use even alone when tanking in Deliverance to soak auto-attack damage, then other cooldowns can be used for more mechanical damage.

I'm not sure where Foresight is even being questioned, I only put that along with Rampart for the standard first T13 Flatten rotation. Regardless, Stoneskin was the White Mage's job in end-game because of enhanced 19%, and most of them being interruptible, and tank busters that required actual cooldown use. None of what you said advocates that it's okay during those situations. Like I said, there has to be a situation where the boss is away, or a free GCD where damage cannot be done to ever be worth it due to it's cast time and low-effiency.

Every job contributes to damage on the check. Even healers have a few GCDs to get damage and DoTs up on both knights before the stance. DoTs that go up on the knight before the switch get full-value even if they change to the shield. The notion that oh i'm just a PLD so damage doesn't matter is pretty silly.

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1. To post moves that you never, rarely, or just not as frequently use.

2. Why you don’t use them often

3. and what might be done (if anything) to improve their usage (this could be anything from SE implemented changes, to Hotbar suggestions, or situational usages that other people may not have thought of).

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1. Virus

2. Doesn't seem to do much considering its duration (10 seconds) and cooldown (90 seconds).

3. I guess just lengthen its duration and/or shorten the cooldown. Or maybe have a "compensation" mechanic (this could probably be said for all the cooldowns in this game now that I think about it) like what WoW has for some of their abilities. If the target fails to receive X damage while Virus is active, its cooldown is reduced by the difference (up to 50%). Heck, I'd have no problems using it then.

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Originally Posted by technole

Those guys haven't done real end-game raid progression then. Eos advantage is being able to effectively "heal" while straight DPSing as Scholar.

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The only fight I use Eos for is A4S to be honest, there aren't many abilities that can mitigate Mortal Rev so Fey Covinent is really useful, also Rouse + Whispering Dawn makes healing through the dolls a lot easier. For everything else theres Selene, theres one big hit in Thordan and Soil + Adlo + Deployment tactics at already more than enough. Knowing when to Rouse Selene for Embrace spams should cover the party healing for the most part providing your co-healing is somewhat capable.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Schmoe

1. Virus

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Please tell me you are trolling...

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Originally Posted by Februs

Maybe you've just run into some really crappy Pld's, but the downsides you're listing for Pld's cross-classing stone skin are ways in which the move should never be used in the first place. Like I said before, there's nothing willy-nilly about the way a Pld should be using the move, and they most certainly should not be using it as a replacement for their defensive CD's. Like all of their moves, they should be micromanaging it's use to fit in and work with their defensive kit. It's the same for any tank, really. They try to find synergy in their kit for which moves work with which and in what circumstances. The only move a Pld would ever use alone is Hallowed Ground (for obvious reasons).

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Cross class skills are fight dependant, Stone Skin is pretty useless for Paladins as enemy attacks will cancel it's cast, but in some situations it's handy. In T13 Bahamut's attacks are somewhat slow but hit hard, there were parts in the fight where the healers would have to focus the party but there would be a big(ish) hit on the MT after, Paladin used to put Stoneskin on them selves for this. But this is a single fight out of many, it's really not something that is the norm.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

Please tell me you are trolling...

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I'm not. One, I've only done duty finder, with people with various attention spans (or lack thereof), no raiding or anything. It's an unimpressive skill considering the f***ing up we all do that makes the ability useless. Two, as it is now I'm already switching back and forth between 2 X-bars just to do my normal thing (healing and tanking) and I'm goofing up more often than I'd like. I basically have no room for it. Again, Virus just doesn't impress me enough to force me to try to figure out where to put it, and then hope to hell I'll know where it is when I really need it. More functions mean more malfunctions. Maybe if was to ever get into raiding - where people actually communicate with each other - I could probably make use of it. Until then, it sits on the shelf.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Schmoe

I'm not. One, I've only done duty finder, with people with various attention spans (or lack thereof), no raiding or anything. It's an unimpressive skill considering the f***ing up we all do that makes the ability useless. Two, as it is now I'm already switching back and forth between 2 X-bars just to do my normal thing (healing and tanking) and I'm goofing up more often than I'd like. I basically have no room for it. Again, Virus just doesn't impress me enough to force me to try to figure out where to put it, and then hope to hell I'll know where it is when I really need it. More functions mean more malfunctions. Maybe if was to ever get into raiding - where people actually communicate with each other - I could probably make use of it. Until then, it sits on the shelf.

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You do realise antibody became a thing after virus turned out to be far too powerful in T5 progression without a drawback right? And this is good old regular virus, not traited supervirus.

Virus is exceptionally powerful. Correct use of virus mitigates so much outgoing damage.

Although i get what you mean with virus in the content you are currently running. In dungeons its not as powerful as raids. When you start raiding you will be using it alot more often :).

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

The only fight I use Eos for is A4S to be honest, there aren't many abilities that can mitigate Mortal Rev so Fey Covinent is really useful, also Rouse + Whispering Dawn makes healing through the dolls a lot easier. For everything else theres Selene, theres one big hit in Thordan and Soil + Adlo + Deployment tactics at already more than enough. Knowing when to Rouse Selene for Embrace spams should cover the party healing for the most part providing your co-healing is somewhat capable.

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I do prefer Selene as much as possible, I also think it's a preference depending on co-healer and party. Even if you want to use Whispering Dawn as effectively two tank regens like back in early A2S days when spike damages phases kind of hurt. Now I feel it doesn't matter, aside from DPS maybe making a croak about attack speed increases.

I also use Dissipation when possible to handle a fairy change for more DPS instead of the ole swift/change. A4S I feel Eos makes the most sense because of "limited" MP resources and Mortal Revolution is pretty heavy even at i210.

For Thordan, I always prefer Eos in the last phases to pad-up possible mistakes (lets just face it, Fey Convent is just too good to ignore in magic heavy situations). Every time I had played Scholar and had to deal with a Phase 9/enrage clear due to DPS earlier deaths, I always felt I had used the best option to preserve a win.

Just stoneskin. It's one of those moves you want to avoid using if you can get away with it and I find that you can get away with it pretty often. I was never a big fan of stoneskin though, even before it got nerfed. Don't really think it needs a change though. I may not use it that often, but it does serve its purpose of being an extra hp buffer to toss when the tank/party needs to take a big hit.

Stoneskin
Primarily because its mp vs usefulness is terrible, and theres really no actual use for it. I only use it on rare ocassions but most of the time a well timed cure goes a much longer way. 10% doesnt seem like anything noticeable and it usually disappears in 1-2 hits.

Makes me kinda wish I had liked scholar more but whatever...

Cure III

I rarely ever use it, people in DF runs don't clump together often enough for it to be of use. Plus when overgeared for content a medica is more than enough. Or hell, medica 2 ticks even.

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Originally Posted by Minseo

Stoneskin
Primarily because its mp vs usefulness is terrible, and theres really no actual use for it. I only use it on rare ocassions but most of the time a well timed cure goes a much longer way. 10% doesnt seem like anything noticeable and it usually disappears in 1-2 hits.

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Mid fight stoneskin is worthless, completely agree. But pre pull? It's essentially free +10% HP since our MP recovers so fast outside of battle. I always get it up on the group outside battle if/when I can.

Edit: though stoneskin was of great use if a PLD had it cross classed, made Titan HM mountain busters more survivable if timed right haha (the good old days of i55-i70 runs :P)

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

Cross class skills are fight dependant, Stone Skin is pretty useless for Paladins as enemy attacks will cancel it's cast, but in some situations it's handy. In T13 Bahamut's attacks are somewhat slow but hit hard, there were parts in the fight where the healers would have to focus the party but there would be a big(ish) hit on the MT after, Paladin used to put Stoneskin on them selves for this. But this is a single fight out of many, it's really not something that is the norm.

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Again, any Pld who is letting their casts get interrupted (Clemency or Stoneskin) is simply an inexperienced Pld.

The dmg intake has to break a certain threshold for a cast bar to be interrupted (I don't remember the exact amount at the moment). Pld's have a higher dmg threshold than Healers, because they have significantly higher defense. The only things that can interrupt a Pld cast bar are Boss Cleaves, Tank Busters, and some of the party wide AoE moves. For this reason, experienced Pld's can easily plan their casts so that they do not get interrupted. This really is not that difficult to do.

T13 is a fine example, but it is far from the only example. In T9 it could be used to negate the Dmg from Raven's Beak, this was incredibly handy because RB is magic dmg, and only 2 of Pld's CD's can effect magical dmg. Stone Skin was a huge boon. Pld's also used it before each golum phase and before megaflare. If you want a more recent example, in Thordan EX a Pld can self buff between phases. They can get a cast off before / after Sacred cross, before / after meteors, before / after ultimate end, as well as provide additional mitigation during KotR 3. It's also possible to squeeze in a Stone Skin during Dragon's Gaze casts, but you need to know they're coming and start the cast early (which, by the way, is not a problem, because everything in that fight is scripted).

These are only 2 examples out of an entire game of examples. I can go through almost every fight in the game and tell you when and where it is safe and beneficial for a Pld to cast Stone Skin on themselves in which they will not get interrupted and can provide additional mitigation on top of their Defensive CD's. Anyone who says it's not very useful really does not know how to use it correctly on that job.

The only reason it's not the norm to see Pld's using Stone Skin, is because most Pld's either: (a) don't have the experience to know how to use it correctly, or (b) have been convinced that they shouldn't, because of that ridiculous myth that the cast bar will be interrupted 100% of the time.