By the time you start doing Holy we should have a solid lead on hate. I've never lost hate to a WHM doing holy. I mean, maybe a tank in dps stance might.Quote:
Originally Posted by AeraLure
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10-08-2015, 12:49 AMbounddreamer
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10-08-2015, 03:30 AMEidolonOnly if it's a Paladin. Only other scenario that you should be pulling hate off a good tank is if you're well overgeared compared to them (Likewise the only time I've pulled hate as a healer) and you're using Medica II / Regen to help heal the tank (Overheal threat issues)Quote:
Originally Posted by bounddreamer
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10-08-2015, 06:07 AMMugenMugetsuWell, you gotta be careful who you say something kinda rude to. You're fully entitled to say whatever you want, I'm not against you doing so, but "Use PF if baby wants their way." IS kinda mean. lol I'm with you on the fact that no one should have complained about the time it took for you guys to get through Neverreap though. Less than 30 minutes is ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dererk
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10-08-2015, 11:08 AMGalactimus
Protect killed my party.
All four of us jump into the first Tornado in Neverreap and I pull the first two packs of mobs. Partway into the battle the DRG says "Protect." I look at the party list and see I'm the only person with the buff (I cast it on myself as Pld before the Duty began.) Thus, mid-fight I recast the spell, easily within range of the entire party, and continue with the fight. At this point many things happen at once. Our Ninja begins to disconnect, I don't see the Dragoon anywhere, and my HP drops to zero. Let's find out what happened!
I find out the DRG was still standing where the first Tornado flings you. Like he wasn't going to engage in battle until he got his Protect. My Protect misses him because he is so far away from the fight. The WHM, seeing that both DPS were doing absolutely nothing, starts spamming Holy in Cleric Stance. I stop paying attention to the fight when I realize both DPS are missing. The Ninja vanishes from the server like a master shinobi. My HP drops to zero. The White Mage rage quits. And the DRG blames me for running ahead without Protect at the start (even though I was the only person with the buff and the only person to cast it.)
I've never seen a Protect go so horribly wrong before. -
10-08-2015, 11:44 AMKaedrianLiangoh yeah this one time in AV. BLM was cycling between bliz3 and fire3 only. I gave him some advice on ideal rotation and he told me to stfu because he played blm during XI and you always use your highest tier spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
That AV took 59 minutes. -
10-08-2015, 03:10 PMBourne_Endeavor
While running Bray, I continuously grabbed hate from the tank, who hadn't leveled to Warrior yet. Against Aiatar, I wound up having to tank and heal myself because the Healer couldn't keep up. Talk about learning the game on the fly. :p
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10-08-2015, 05:31 PMSenstara
Was tanking Fractal two days ago, no wipes and perfectly smooth clear so far up to the first platform before last boss. Clear that, group goes right and I go left didn't notice they went right so simply waited for them thinking they were just being slow. They for some reason pulled the trash on the right and all died before I could sprint over, told me to wake up and I got an instant kick afterwards...
... Suppose no one ever heard of following the tank, can only imagine it was some Free Company premade. -
10-08-2015, 06:09 PMDragoon130
Running Aurum Vale last night leveling my Scholar. We were at the Coincounter and the Machinist wasn't dodging so he died. The boss was at about 3% and I had just swiftcast resummoned my fairy which had died durring the last Glower. He starts asking us to wipe the boss so he doesn't miss any xp. The Warrior and Monk make short work of the last bit of health and he just goes off on everyone about how he just lost a ton of xp and rage quits.
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10-08-2015, 06:30 PMsayafrostwait you lose exp if you are dead at the death of the boss?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon130
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10-08-2015, 07:15 PMzanshin87
I was in a pt with this tank who I assume was a troll. He kept sprinting in and pulling all of the mobs he could causing wipes. Not just a large pull but a train. Eventually he started tanking right so we continued on. He would point to dungeon items and doors forcing dds to interact. He said it was below him. He left at start of final boss. He was an elvaan pld.
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10-08-2015, 07:39 PMZephera
Just had a run of Brayflox with a paladin decked out in strength gear who despite that, could not hold hate for the life of them no matter how many times they spammed flash. When they did manage to keep hate they never dodged AoE's so their health plummeted so fast that it wasn't worth the healer bothering, the tank would then proceed to run over to the rest of the group leading the entire mob towards the group, dying and setting them all on the healer. It's a miracle we made it to the end boss of the dungeon but no further than that as the tank was refusing to pull the boss out of the poison pools. Healer got sick of dying and abandoned and I left shortly afterwards.
Please don't use strength gear if you can't stay alive with it tanks, if you want to DPS, please, please be a DPS class instead. -
10-08-2015, 07:47 PMsayafrost
Yesterday I did The Aery with a friend of mine, he tank I dps. It went all awesome we did good damage got to the last boss.
1. the other dps didn't seem to bother to get me out of the Sable Price (not once but like 3 times)
2. I have no idea what happened with the healer but he didn't seem to bother healing Esti; and after we wiped... they just left
Tho then we got an awesome astro and finished it without problems (even if I did die again of sable price) -
10-08-2015, 07:47 PMHavenchild
Ran a Neverreap for expert roulette on SMN with a Sch that wouldn't Protect and a Bard that wouldn't Foe while the tank was doing full pulls and nearly died multiple times. When i told them they should use Protect and Foe to speed the run up and make it safer, the Bard said I should say please. I said I shouldn't have to say please for basic skill usage especially if it contributes to everyone for this run and I was kicked soon after. c'est la vie
I really despise Bards that sit on full mp with a caster in the party. -
10-08-2015, 08:15 PMsirDartsVIT gear doesn't keep you from dying, it only keeps you from dying INSTANTLY. And there are no noteworthy tankbusters outside of Raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephera
If a healer can't keep a tank in STR gear alive, they won't be able to keep a tank in VIT gear alive either (unless the reason the tank died is a mistake by the healer which causes him to miss a heal).
VIT accessories are pretty much useless outside of top-tier world-first progression where you absolutely need it for a tank buster. -
10-08-2015, 08:19 PMZepheraThe tank practically was dying instantly, like, 6 hits and dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirDarts
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10-08-2015, 08:27 PMsirDartsThen VIT gear would not help him, it would make it like 8 hits instead - still the incoming damage would be above the received healing, and he would die soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephera
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10-08-2015, 08:29 PMDererkQuote:
Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu
I think I failed to mention how stressful said healer made the run. And what I said may have been in a way mean the guy was part of a premade party of 3 so I was the odd man out. This is one of the problems with partial pre made party's who then fill rest out in duty finder then take advantage of the vote kick feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeraLure
Never complained about healers who dps I never care so long as I'm still alive but I think they were spaming right away before I finished gathering the trash and about half way threw the dungeon the dps wer pulling stuff too. I'll end my comment on this situation. -
10-08-2015, 09:49 PMSelli
I got kicked out of Dusk Vigil today for "not playing Swiftsong" on my MCH.
...
Wut. -
10-08-2015, 10:24 PMAskaRayYanno, playing songs with your turretQuote:
Originally Posted by Selli
I mean c'mon
I got thrown in progress into a Snowcloak party. They were at the second boss, I was on my AST. As I'm running to meet the party, I get the message that they pulled the Yeti so I'm like to myself "there's no literal way for me to make it so idk what they're doing". I get to boss and wait for them all to die, because they locked me out.
After everyone rezzes outside and the boss unlocks, I'm kicked from the dungeon.
Um ok, bye -
10-08-2015, 11:06 PMKalsamNo. You still get experience while dead as long as you contributed to the fight and have group credit. Same thing with any fights in the world (ie: FATEs)Quote:
Originally Posted by sayafrost
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10-08-2015, 11:12 PMOdettEh, I'm a little on both sides of the fence on this. In a 4 person dungeon for mass trash pulls, I'll go full Vit so the healer can stay in cleric stance longer. An extra 3 Holys will do more DPS than my Unleashes or Abyssal Drains. If the healer decides to just spam heal me, then I'll switch to full STR for the rest of the run. I'll always drop all my vit and go full STR when we get to the bosses, however, as full STR DRKs dumping Dark Arts into their Souleaters need a regen at most from WHM's or AST's, or just Selene or Eos is enough to heal them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirDarts
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10-09-2015, 12:01 AMsirDartsWell, true, with a WHM or AST (I think, don't know AST skills that much), having a bit more health and thus allowing one or two more AoE bursts can actually be helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odett
I kinda tunnel-visioned the situation from an SCH PoV. And as an SCH, once I put up my DoTs and Bane them, put up Shadow Flare and maybe Miasma II, I am free to heal, since Broil is single target, and doesn't do THAT much of a difference in mass pulls. I usually switch to Broiling once only 1 or 2 mobs are up, and reapplying DoTs would no longer be worth it, and there is no need for a heal anymore. -
10-09-2015, 12:31 AMFynlar
I would also say that there's less of a benefit to a STR setup for PLD tanks in particular as far as pulling hordes of trash in 4-man dungeons goes, because PLD has minimal AoE capability as it is and your healer will probably push out more dps (and experience fewer headaches) by just keeping the HP build on. I'd still advise having a STR build for most smaller pulls + bosses, though.
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10-09-2015, 01:15 AMExiaQuanta
When one of the dps brings a Nexus into the current Duty Roulette Expert. "Why?" I asked, he said "To get light"
the run took 40minutes
........... -
10-09-2015, 01:45 AMEidolonThe worst part is, the nexus didn't even get light. We tested it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiaQuanta
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10-09-2015, 01:54 AMRin_Kuroi
my pug co-healer on a4n spread judgement nisi to almost the entire raid. i healed everyone through it. he won the shaft.
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10-09-2015, 02:44 AMBunnyChain
Recent experiences:
Neverreap; me on WAR, BRD pulls the first moth, I use Tomahawk, BRD doesn't let go, proceed to grab the rest of mobs, come back with them all, provoke the moth - tomahawk, BRD still doesn't let go of it, let them tank it. I'm a retard.
A4; me on SCH, DPS (iirc BLM) dies to floaty balls, not trying to dodge - soaks them all up, gets a raise - doesn't accept - instead goes AFK, 1 minute later, comes back and boasts about having a lot of skill due to high ilvl, lies on floor getting carried through A4.
ಠ_ಠ -
10-09-2015, 02:52 AMenthauptetI was running a dungeon the other day with a friend leveling up his bard and he used swiftsong, I was like swiftsong? what song is that? I'd never even put it on my bar so I forgot what it was lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selli
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10-09-2015, 04:13 AMGalactimusQuote:
Originally Posted by sirDarts
This is true... for level 50+ Dungeons. However, the poster had joined a Brayflox (Normal) run; so I disagree. There's absolutely no reason for a Tank to be wearing Slaying Accessories into dungeons before level 50. These dungeons weren't designed for healing STR Tanks. Rampart and Foresight are not going to save you in a pinch. There's no Sentinel, Bulwark, Shield Oath, or Hallowed Ground. A Healer's HPS is very low at level 32 with no emergency buttons. They even run out of MP if you pull two packs of mobs too quickly. I'd argue that an HP buffer is far more important at that level than more Rage of Halone damage.
Doing level 50 dungeons at i130 or level 60 dungeons in i205 gear then I agree. Full Slaying Accessories is the way to go. Overpowered abilities and an inflated ilvl more than make up for a few thousand HP. -
10-09-2015, 04:38 AMLa_BluegirlI disagree completely. From 1 to 59 there's nothing at all threatening in dungeons for all str tanks, there's simply no reason to have that HP buffer (You're talking like 300 hp at this point). The poster also basically said the tank was an utter moron (more or less) by not holding hate, and pulling the next mobs instantly, all while standing in all aoes. I'm willing to bet probably no defensive cooldowns popped either. It wouldn't have mattered if he was all str, all vit, or all piety at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactimus
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10-09-2015, 04:41 AMsirDartsIt's true for every dungeon that doesn't have a tankbuster. So basically every dungeon. I have never had a tank's HP drop to levels where it would be possible for them to die with or without the VIT from accessories. Unless someone screws up (gets hit by avoidable AoE, or I fail to heal them for some reason), or I let it drop to push out some DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactimus
Once again, HP doesn't matter. What matters is incoming damage, vs. incoming healing. Neither of these is in ANY way influenced by VIT, the only thing VIT gives you is a second or two more to react, but if the Damage your tank is taking is constantly above your HPS they will inevitably die, no matter how much actual HP they have. While if your HPS is constantly higher or equal to the incoming damage, you can easily heal anyone, as long as you don't screw up.Quote:
Doing level 50 dungeons at i130 or level 60 dungeons in i205 gear then I agree. Full Slaying Accessories is the way to go. Overpowered abilities and an inflated ilvl more than make up for a few thousand HP.
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10-09-2015, 05:51 AMGalactimusQuote:
Originally Posted by sirDarts
Right, and when your damage taken is greater than the healer's HPS you pop a cooldown to compensate for the loss. You have so many overpowered cool downs and emergency buttons at 50 and 60 that you can get away with tanking 15 mobs at a time in Slaying gear; even though the damage taken is 5x that of your healers normal HPS.
You can't do this in low level dungeons. You accidentally pull six mobs and you're lucky to survive with a healer that's completely out of mana and a Tank that almost died three times. Six hits and you're at half health. Giving a healer more breathing room to clutch heal you is far more important when you only have 1300 HP. You have no emergency buttons available to compensate. High Vit saves you a lot more than high Str at level 32. You have nothing else to work with at that level. Not to mention the fact that people you run with are most likely going to be under-geared and still learning. -
10-09-2015, 07:26 AMsirDartsAs said, never even came close to an issue like that, even when the tank did double pulls, albeit often accidental. And as you said, you get people who are still leveling, and undergeared, yet I don't remember a time where I let the tank die, unless they got hit by avoidable AoE, or someone screwed up massively. If the few hundred HP you get from VIT accessories would be so important, then most runs would end in a disaster, as many tanks are undergeared, and many healers bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactimus
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10-09-2015, 08:02 AMWhiteroomThose dungeons are also run by low level inexperienced tanks wearing half DOW left side, succesfully. They are by no means designed for optimal gear only. Obviously it's easier with VIT, especially if you have a new healer. But its not that big of a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactimus
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10-09-2015, 08:10 AMReddAxel
Stop derailing this thread into an argument about STR tanks in low level dungeons. This isn't what I came to read about -_-
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10-09-2015, 08:16 AMFevelleI had this problem on Stone Vigil today on AST. The tank was wearing the full green set from Brayflox and HQ Sphene Acessories. He pulled the whole Aevis room. There was like 9 mobs there, IDK. I only managed to maintain him alive during this pull and the second aevis room he pulled because of Lighstspeed and ED + all the spears I could draw and a wonderful Balance-ed BLM. The damage was so high that if I missed only one GCD he would die instantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirDarts
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10-09-2015, 08:28 AMNonomas
I can't bother myself to remember the name of the dungeon, but there was this guy who didn't know how to cast hate and draw the boss and adds away from us. He said he was new to tanking, too.
Many, many wipes. I had to suffer thru the penalty, but the second run went much more smoothly. -
10-09-2015, 10:22 AMFynlarAnd a lot of times, that ends up being precisely the difference needed that determines life or death, particularly with the monster pulls that people like to do in 4-man dungeons (or at least, whenever the game actually lets them)Quote:
Once again, HP doesn't matter. What matters is incoming damage, vs. incoming healing. Neither of these is in ANY way influenced by VIT, the only thing VIT gives you is a second or two more to react,
I know you were discussing a lower level scenario, but it's worth pointing out that at level 60 in law gear, the difference is actually more like 4k hp. I'm 13k or so in STR accessories, on PLD, about 17k in VIT. The difference is probably even greater for a Defiance WAR, but they are more justified in getting away with it because their self-healing ability more directly ties in to how much damage they can do.Quote:
If the few hundred HP you get from VIT accessories would be so important,
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10-09-2015, 12:11 PMNebulaRose
Was running Sunken Temple of Qarn. Get to the scales before the last boss. I always try to be the one to put the tablets on the scale because I don't trust anyone else to get it right lol. Flame on the Left, Fruit on the Right, and as I'm pressing "yes" on the scale to open the door... someone changes one of the tablets... >_<
Same run... I was a BLM and kept accidentally pulling aggro from the tank... every time this would happen, THE TANK WOULD SIT DOWN. I understand it's frustrating to lose aggro (trust me, I've been there), but being a bitch about it and sitting down isn't going to make things better. The same tank would constantly go AFK without telling us, too.
And I don't know how many times I've gotten stuck with tanks that, when given advice on their tanking, they give no response and no results of improvement... -
10-09-2015, 12:33 PMYhoiryo
Speaking of Qarn I had a tank and a drg that didn't get the concept of letting the statues die on the panels, lets just say the healer and I stood around for a while at times.