Raider to Non-Raider: an exhibition on thoughts and misconceptions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atmora

Time invested in a field doesn't necessarily equal skill in said field, someone who is truly skilled wouldn't be impressive if just anyone could do it with some time investment.

---

Just as a small aside here, as a teacher... the American Educational system would beg to disagree with you. (Not that I necessarily agree with them on it 100%, though.)

Since I kinda went off and got detailed I should probably bring up something topic relevant.

So what's wrong with adding little Easter eggs or secret endings to harder content. It happens all the time in other MMOs and single player games. Like in the original Halo you got a secret ending if you beat the game on Legendary, which if you've played the original Halo there's a huge jump between Legendary and the other difficulties. Or if you look at Final Fantasy itself there were always side bosses that were way harder then the final boss that the vast majority of the people playing the game never beat and often times those bosses had world building and story locked behind them. Another example from a JRPG is Shin Megami Tensei Nocturn, which actually has it's canon ending locked behind beating a bonus boss that requires hundreds of hours of grinding a few very select party members. Not to mention WoW has had bonus bosses that were restricted to the highest raid tier a was mentioned before in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atmora

Since I kinda went off and got detailed I should probably bring up something topic relevant.

So what's wrong with adding little Easter eggs or secret endings to harder content. It happens all the time in other MMOs and single player games. Like in the original Halo you got a secret ending if you beat the game on Legendary, which if you've played the original Halo there's a huge jump between Legendary and the other difficulties. Or if you look at Final Fantasy itself there were always side bosses that were way harder then the final boss that the vast majority of the people playing the game never beat and often times those bosses had world building and story locked behind them. Another example from a JRPG is Shin Megami Tensei Nocturn, which actually has it's canon ending locked behind beating a bonus boss that requires hundreds of hours of grinding a few very select party members. Not to mention WoW has had bonus bosses that were restricted to the highest raid tier a was mentioned before in this thread.

---

Okay, I've said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here.... You can not compare a single-player games like Halo or the Shin Megami Tensei series to an MMO. Their diametrically opposed to each other in how you approach them. In a single player game you play at your pace, do the things you want to do when you want to do them and fit them into your free time on your own terms. You are free to challenge the hardest content all at once or in 20 minute intervals if you see fit. You can not do that in an MMO with raid content. Sorry, but there's just no viable comparison to be made in it.

That's why I also mentioned WoW as well and games from the Final Fantasy series, the point was to have a wide array of different and similar genres to draw comparison from. Not o mention you can take this game at your own pace if you want, you can attempt to clear everything as fast as possible by joining a static and going at content non stop, you can attempt to slowly PUG it at a rate you feel comfortable, or you can wait for it to get easier and do it then. If that's not a variety of time investment options I don't know what is. PUGin savage is more than doable by the way, plenty I players have cleared a3s in PUGs.

As someone who greatly enjoyed the challenge of savage coil when it was difficult, and the rush of handling mechanics precisely and trusting your team mates implicitly, I feel nothing but disdain for Alexander Savage. My static fell apart, 5 major statics on my server dissolved or transferred and I can't even get back in to raid anymore. I'm imminently qualified as arguably the best dragoon on my server (I'm mildly elitist, what can I say) and I still can't catch a break because nobody wants in. The fights are boring.

What I would have preferred, is for them to have released normal mode alongside savage, or even after since it's only purpose is for the bleeding hearts that wanna experience raid story, and rather than streamline savage, drop the NM players off right in front of boss rooms (Faust for example). Add expanded area's that the savage players would get to experience, because Alexander seems cramped and claustrophobic in comparison to T1, or even T3. Let the savage players who are crashing against the savage wall have something that distinctly makes it different, because these boring mechanic changes are insulting. AS1 and AS2 are incredibly boring already, AS3 and 4 are gear checks, 3 being the more enjoyable of the 2, while 4 is just a grind of attrition. The mechanics are lack luster and require very little coordination in comparison to things as simple even as t12/13, or savage 7/8. The difficulty shouldn't be hidden behind a gear wall, but behind a veil of true mechanical difficulty that inspires players to improve and rely on one another.

-A former 'Elitist' Raider

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Well, an award for the longest post ever on the forums. If you are posting for personal catharsis, congrats on a job well done. If you are posting for the purpose of communicating to others, you may want to try to make your points quicker so as to not lose all your potential readers.

---

Yeah.

The first drafts of some of my Literature finals in college were fewer words than this.

I honestly skimmed it a bit, scrolled down to find more, and just browsed the bullet points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vincent_Mateus

Snip

---

Yeah, I've heard literally no positive feedback on A3S and A4S being well-designed or fun. I've heard some positive feedback on the other floors at least. The only reason my group is having trouble with mechanics in A3S is the incredibly large RNG element of the fight, almost every single one of the mechanics selects people in a random fashion, or spawns adds in a random fashion, making some pulls just randomly more difficult scenarios.

I like to agree with a lot of your points. It just sadly seems like the majority giving a bad rep to each side of the spectrum are wannabes.

For example; I currently am waiting on my friends to be ready to run Savage. So I personally am not in there atm. Has this stopped me from studying the fights? Nope! I'm checking out videos, guides, streams... Getting an idea of what to expect so we can all go in on the jobs we prefer, and not bang our heads on the wall endlessly.
BUT... there has been a number of times I've had someone in a group start telling me off about not knowing 'shit all about savage' just because I'm not IN it at this time.

I actually got angry enough at one person recently to say: "So, you just go into the fight... no studying, no prep. You decide you're going to be the useless garbage of the group because YOU can't figure out a fight without smashing your head into it over and over. Good job on letting your group carry you."

I've even had a reverse, where someone in the group told me off, saying "Let them play how they want, f*ing elitist" for just trying to help a tank become better. I wasn't rude, even said "Hey, just a friendly tip from another tank..." Showing that I wasn't trying to call them bad or anything. I was just doing what any good player should do; help others do good too. :D

*sighs* I mean, seriously... too many damn wannabes out there, making the true "elitists" (raiders) and "casuals" (non-raiders) look bad. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atmora

That's why I also mentioned WoW as well and games from the Final Fantasy series, the point was to have a wide array of different and similar genres to draw comparison from. Not o mention you can take this game at your own pace if you want, you can attempt to clear everything as fast as possible by joining a static and going at content non stop, you can attempt to slowly PUG it at a rate you feel comfortable, or you can wait for it to get easier and do it then. If that's not a variety of time investment options I don't know what is. PUGin savage is more than doable by the way, plenty I players have cleared a3s in PUGs.

---

Okay, since WoW is a viable comparison, let's look at that. Now, I will note that I personally did not play WoW (for very long...) so most of what I will say comes from the plethora of people that I know played it.

The thing about raiding in WoW, no matter the expansion, no matter the raid, there always was a large number of parallel paths for you to advance through in order to accomplish what you needed to do in order to be ready for the raid. This meant that whenever you logged in, you had something to do. We should also note that the WoW raids mostly came out with expansions, which were not presented as often as we get content patches in XIV, meaning that devs had a lot more time to actively develop those raids before release.

Also note that Blizzard has a HUGE group of devs dedicated to producing these raids (many of which I've been lucky enough to meet personally...) so they have a lot of talent to pull from in both the sophistication of the encounters they can develop as well as the overall quantity they can push out.

XIV's dev team for this is, by comparison, relatively small and they push out the content at a much faster rate than most other companies do. This means, sadly, that the content is often not as polished and isn't close to the same volume as other games. Because of this, unlike the multithreaded path that people can follow at their place in WoW, you basically have only one path into Savage, and it's a hugely lackluster set of encounters. In the long and short of it, I think the only reliable way that we will ever get good quality raids with enough content wrapped around them is if they expand the dev team, because no one will accept them pushing out content slower then they are right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vincent_Mateus

As someone who greatly enjoyed the challenge of savage coil when it was difficult, and the rush of handling mechanics precisely and trusting your team mates implicitly, I feel nothing but disdain for Alexander Savage. My static fell apart, 5 major statics on my server dissolved or transferred and I can't even get back in to raid anymore. I'm imminently qualified as arguably the best dragoon on my server (I'm mildly elitist, what can I say) and I still can't catch a break because nobody wants in. The fights are boring.

What I would have preferred, is for them to have released normal mode alongside savage, or even after since it's only purpose is for the bleeding hearts that wanna experience raid story, and rather than streamline savage, drop the NM players off right in front of boss rooms (Faust for example). Add expanded area's that the savage players would get to experience, because Alexander seems cramped and claustrophobic in comparison to T1, or even T3. Let the savage players who are crashing against the savage wall have something that distinctly makes it different, because these boring mechanic changes are insulting. AS1 and AS2 are incredibly boring already, AS3 and 4 are gear checks, 3 being the more enjoyable of the 2, while 4 is just a grind of attrition. The mechanics are lack luster and require very little coordination in comparison to things as simple even as t12/13, or savage 7/8. The difficulty shouldn't be hidden behind a gear wall, but behind a veil of true mechanical difficulty that inspires players to improve and rely on one another.

-A former 'Elitist' Raider

---

I also highly disagree with the level of these checks in most cases. They're too reliant on the numbers... iLvl, frame-perfect DPS, frame perfect heals. They don't allow a team to adapt and rather force them into creating a standard methodical approach which you set up and never, ever... ever deviate from. Due to this, because it is so implicit that you must do these specific things at specific times in specific ways (or die), groups rarely want to help teach anyone new anymore. That, in itself, puts off a lot of people from even trying the content.

I can hardly count the number of groups that look for replacements that state: "Must know mechanics" or "Must have experience." Much like the job market, it's hard to -get- experience doing something if no one is willing to even let you try it in the first place. I can also say that I've seen plenty of PF groups that even say all that while cursing people out who haven't even joined yet because they haven't done something yet. Yes, the mechanics of the fight are boring, tedious and in many cases dumb... That's part of why I haven't bothered with Savage and really only do A1 and A2, because the fights for A3 and A4 are just uninteresting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malzian

Also note that Blizzard has a HUGE group of devs dedicated to producing these raids (many of which I've been lucky enough to meet personally...) so they have a lot of talent to pull from in both the sophistication of the encounters they can develop as well as the overall quantity they can push out.

XIV's dev team for this is, by comparison, relatively small

---

I'm curious where people is getting this dev quantity information, you can look at the credits when they roll and it lasts forever, and I'm only talking about japanese names, not the NA and EU team names which are pretty small, just for information, the credits roll of heavensward lasts more than 25 minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atmora

That's why I also mentioned WoW as well and games from the Final Fantasy series, the point was to have a wide array of different and similar genres to draw comparison from. Not o mention you can take this game at your own pace if you want, you can attempt to clear everything as fast as possible by joining a static and going at content non stop, you can attempt to slowly PUG it at a rate you feel comfortable, or you can wait for it to get easier and do it then. If that's not a variety of time investment options I don't know what is. PUGin savage is more than doable by the way, plenty I players have cleared a3s in PUGs.

---

Wow does it so right when it comes to raiding. I wish we could have a company like SE that valued it's players as much as they do paired with the wow encounter teams.

The wow raiding models works very well for many reasons... Sadly, I think many of the reasons wow's raids are so great would not be palatable to the non-raiding audience in this game.

Wow gives raiders and non-raiders access to the story via four different modes of raiding. Nothing needs to be nerfed and each difficulty has it's proper place. You literally can raid as any type of player from the most casual to the most hard core.

The nice thing about wow raiding is the more you put into it, the more you get out of it:

LFR gives the worst of the raiding gear with a generic design, but it's still power progression for players that can only play a handful or hours each week.

Normal gives decent gear with a good amount of the raid rewards and achievements available to this difficulty.

Heroic gives better loot since it's harder.

Mythic gives the best gear in the game until the next raid tier comes out. Gear has unique models. I am assuming mythic also awards mounts, extra bosses, and titles.


Obviously, we can't have the highest ilvl in the game for more than 2-3 months. I do think raiders in this game could get an extra boss, different looking gear sets, and some titles since that seems to be a standard in the MMO genre.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malzian

if you recall, pink gear doesn't compare even against green of the same iLvl. The attack/defense values on the green and blue gear will always be higher than aetheral, and the stats as well.

---

This is false. Aetherial items have identical attack/defense and primary stats to equivalent green and blue items of the same item level (though there's only one instance of the latter), and the numerical values (determination's slightly different budget aside) for secondary stats are also identical.

I agree with most posts regarding Alex Savage's difficulty taking a turn on the 3rd floor. Anyway, I think that the way the community as-is is pretty normal due to the fact that this mmo is not designed for people to be flat out competitive. Although the ones who strive to find some competition in PvE content are entitled to do so if they find it enjoyable, because let's be honest, everyone plays to feel good about themselves and that's mostly achieved through competition or social engagement. So in the end, how people perceive raiders and non-raiders in PvE content largely depends on their definition of 'fun' and to be honest so many people are incapable of understanding or acknowledging other types of fun not because they don't want to but because they are limited in terms comprehending what's on the other side of their bubble. This goes both ways for raiders and non-raiders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evtrai

I'm curious where people is getting this dev quantity information, you can look at the credits when they roll and it lasts forever, and I'm only talking about japanese names, not the NA and EU team names which are pretty small, just for information, the credits roll of heavensward lasts more than 25 minutes.

---

Did you do The Rising? That is literally the dev team. I think there is one person that is in charge of raids. One.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparktacus

Did you do The Rising? That is literally the dev team. I think there is one person that is in charge of raids. One.

---

They did say they have a small team lol.

I would like to become a raider.... But being on a EU server when you live in NZ makes it hard XD Weird timezones and increased ping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibi

This is false. Aetherial items have identical attack/defense and primary stats to equivalent green and blue items of the same item level (though there's only one instance of the latter), and the numerical values (determination's slightly different budget aside) for secondary stats are also identical.

---

Okay, I checked this and you're correct. Pink and green items of the same iLvl have the same stat values, though pink's secondaries are unreliable for what you get. I could not find a comparable set for pink to blue.

Hey, I'm still just trying to find a raid group that doesn't raid during the week. I have the skill and ability to learn, but apparently weekends are off limits to most people. O.o I started playing this game when Heavensward came out, coming from 7.5 years of WoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ketra

I really hope SE can expand on the combat content of the game. Having a good combat system is useless when there is nothing to kill.

---

Well i have really high hopes for those airship islands, it could be a salvation unless it ends being hunt v.2 or it has some lame weekly limitations. If its nothing like hunts and you can farm it 24/7 if you so choose i will be EXTREMELY happy.

Since this is the first expansion of the game (officially the first....). Lets just hope they learn from the stuff here and the feedback to heart for 4.0.

Not saying to give up on 3.x just thought that should be put out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evtrai

I'm curious where people is getting this dev quantity information, you can look at the credits when they roll and it lasts forever, and I'm only talking about japanese names, not the NA and EU team names which are pretty small, just for information, the credits roll of heavensward lasts more than 25 minutes.

---

25 minutes, yes. However, the full credits include people like localization, testing and marketing. The people actually designing the content are right at the beginning and those are (from the credits):

Lead Battle Planner: Kei Sato
Battle Planners: Tsuyoshi Yokozawa, Takashi Kawamoto, Hikaru Tamaki
Lead Monster Planner: Daisuke Sase
Monster Planners: Masaki Nakagawa, Kenji Hosoi, Ryouhei Ishizuka
Lead Level Planner: Arata Takahashi
Level Planners: Hiroyuki Kamada, Azusa Kamakura, Yoshito Nabeshima, Tian Xia

That's the full list (minus the main producers) that actually -make- the content we play. That's raids, dungeons and open world. 13 people to design the levels, monsters and mechanics (note: not do the art or program them). That's a very small dev group for the amount of content we've actually gotten.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malzian

pink's secondaries are unreliable for what you get

---

True they're unreliable and I've gotten an aetherial item that was no better than the unmelded crafted equivalent but the good ones can give you 3 maxed out secondaries which means we might see 210 aetherial gear that's straight up better than gordian/upgraded eso.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyrn

True they're unreliable and I've gotten an aetherial item that was no better than the unmelded crafted equivalent but the good ones can give you 3 maxed out secondaries which means we might see 210 aetherial gear that's straight up better than gordian/upgraded eso.

---

Well, bringing it back to the original issue that started this conversation... It really doesn't make sense to me to put a piece of gear that has unknown stats on a BiS list since it -could- be great or it could be awful. Maybe on there as an "if you get these stats", but I'd rather put a known item on a BiS list than say it's that much more of a gamble to get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I would like to become a raider.... But being on a EU server when you live in NZ makes it hard XD Weird timezones and increased ping.

---

While it certainly makes it trickier, it's not impossible. I run a raid team which consists of 5 people from England, 2 from Finland and 1 from New Zealand. On an EU server as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malzian

Okay, I checked this and you're correct. Pink and green items of the same iLvl have the same stat values, though pink's secondaries are unreliable for what you get. I could not find a comparable set for pink to blue.

---

There's only one pink item that has the same level as any blue items. The Aetherial Felt Trousers are i50, and can be equipped by any DoW. Comparing these to blue i50 leg armor of the same type, such as the Temple Gaskins, shows that both have 72 Defense, 12 Strength, and 13 Vitality.

Lodestone doesn't show secondary stats for the pink item, since they're randomly generated, but you can verify in-game that the secondary stat budgets are the same also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyne_Lyons

The people who are taking the time to post that they didn't read the OP are the worst people in this thread.

---

I so much indeed so much agree with this analysis...that post is well written and thought out...I am not too sure though it calls for an intervention without starting again a debate long 100000 miles without getting nowhere, since everybody will camp on whatever they believe...but opens up some personal thoughts

Mei

I think the issue with Alexander is that it's a bad raid. The story left a poor first impression. The latter half of Savage feels poorly tuned, over designed, and with a larger jump in difficulty to the rest of the raid unseen since Psychonauts' Meat Circus. The loot tables for each individual floor is a linear joke, completely ruining the fun of gear optimization by making it completely linear and the excitement of clearing fights in general.

You didn't see this amount of complaining from Coil. The common joke response when someone would criticize Coil's fights was "yo get gud". I have yet to have another player come and defend any of the actual design in the latter half of Savage.

My group blazed through floor 1 and 2 in the first two weeks of release, while floor 3 has sandbagged us since. And it's not a team failure, I'd feel confident in claiming that 60% of our wipes have been due to the obnoxious amount of RNG tied to it's tight instant-death mechanics. Nothing is more infuriating than wiping when you KNOW that you are attempting to preform the mechanic correctly, only for the game to just say no.

If I didn't absolutely love actually playing with my static, I'd have dropped this raid and probably taken a break. Chatting up with my friends is fun, the actual fights are not.

I really hope Square has payed attention to the points being made, and take them into account when designing the next part of the raid.

I've tried to follow the thread as best as I could. One thing I'm not sure if anyone at this point has considered. If you are going to ask for a change in the raid (be it size or difficulty, or what have you), how would the dev team have the time to create and/or change such content? It seems like the team is stretched thin as is and are still able to put out content faster than most MMO's care to try (that have larger teams I'd imagine). I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, but making suggestions for smaller changes instead of larger, more time consuming ones might be the first step in constructive feedback. Apologies if this was part of the intent, but this has been a rather long read all together, things have blurred a bit :p .

I loved this post, especially since our static is going through this struggle right now. We were able to down T13 before the nerfs happened and were crazy happy about that, like you said, our raid group was a grab bag of skill levels and how people felt about raiding in general. Some did it just for the challenge like me, wanting to succeed, some valued the friendships more. Before now, we were able to co-exists fine but now, with AS3, it became painfully obvious that this was no longer going to be the case. All of a sudden, sadly it became necessary for us to replace those weak links in order to attain the progression that many of us wanted, and unfortunately it cost many friendships in the process, something that makes me sad, but something that was unavoidable.

We never beat second coil savage while it was progression, but I was fine with that. I was just happy getting past Bahamut while it was still progression, but now it seems if I want that feel again we have to re-build our static from the ground up with a certain kind of player. While I'm of course willing to do that, I still don't enjoy the process of reforming the raid. I don't enjoy getting hated by people who were once friends because I choose to pursue my goals in the game. While I don't blame SE for the loss of friendships, I do believe this is definitely an issue that needs looking at, as in the end, I would have rather avoided all the heartache.

Thanks for taking the time to write this out OP.

Sacrificing friends for the sake of potentially clearing a savage floor : Yes, sad indeed.

To chime in my opinion, I'm not against having a normal mode and a meaningful savage mode raid (that is, harder difficulty with mechanical changes, maybe even an extra phase completely unique to it, and of course better rewards like a mount).

However, I also feel that FCoB on release, was exactly what normal mode should be. It's definitely mechanics you can't ignore, but you don't end up wiping your entire party upon failing it (which more-or-less applies to all SCoB turns excluding 6), and most importantly; it's difficulty was more on numbers being met that it could naturally get easier as you get gear for it (which again, can't be said for SCoB since any mechanics will outright kill you even at lvl 60 if it was left unchanged). That alone should be more than enough to throttle the average clear rates and groups for most normal-mode content. And when I say this, I mean gear makes it easier, not possible to clear. Having an absurdly high gear wall to the point that you need the entire party to get gear from the previous turns within the same tier (when you only get 1-2 drops per week for 1-2 individual...) is slapping the same wall that the midcore players are facing, except it's also slamming the hardcore players too.

With Alexander normal, unfortunately I feel that this difficulty has dipped well into the CT-raid difficulties (and we have the upcoming void ark for that anyway...) upon release. This hits the nail on the coffin in regards to having no meaningful raid content that's suited to the midcore group. The only reason you'll ever go into Alexander normal as a group (because honestly, my raid group didn't even get together to clear A4 within the first day of release, we DF'd it) is to guaranteed that you'll get your weekly drop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cgbspender

Sacrificing friends for the sake of potentially clearing a savage floor : Yes, sad indeed.

---

It is but what do we do? Our raid group was been built around clearing content of a certain difficulty. We either get bored as we faceroll stuff or frustrated as we smack our heads into a wall. Neither of these outcomes are good for friendships and enjoying the game. It's sad because I liked the people who left but if they didn't leave the whole group would have suffered.

I'm sure my situation is far from unique.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cgbspender

Sacrificing friends for the sake of potentially clearing a savage floor : Yes, sad indeed.

---

If the static is formed for the purpose of clearing content and one or two people are holding you back, there's not much else you can do though. It sounds like they were given every chance in the world to step up their game. It doesn't mean they don't still want to be friends with those people or do other things with them; it simply means that the static's raiding goals and their raiding goals aren't compatible. It makes things awkward to say the least, and there's really no way to "win" in that situation. Either you let a minority hold back the entire raid, in which case the static will eventually fall apart anyway because pointlessly beating your head against a wall sucks, or you potentially hurt some feelings by replacing a couple of people so you can start making progress again. The people that get replaced can either accept it for what it is and try to get better at the game or find a more compatible static, or they can go sulk in the corner and complain about how elitist the rest of the static suddenly is and how they don't want to be friends anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If the static is formed for the purpose of clearing content and one or two people are holding you back, there's not much else you can do though. It sounds like they were given every chance in the world to step up their game. It doesn't mean they don't still want to be friends with those people or do other things with them; it simply means that the static's raiding goals and their raiding goals aren't compatible.

---

I think it's more subtle than that. The static's raiding goals and the individual's raiding goals are the same, but where the individual's capabilities was sufficient to allow them meet those goals in FCoB, that's no longer the case for Alex Savage.

The goals stayed the same, but SE moved the goal posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibi

I think it's more subtle than that. The static's raiding goals and the individual's raiding goals are the same, but where the individual's capabilities was sufficient to allow them meet those goals in FCoB, that's no longer the case for Alex Savage.

The goals stayed the same, but SE moved the goal posts.

---

Pretty much. And it wasn't really a sacrifice, it was a decision made to keep the group together. (This is to the person who said it was sad.) As several people have mentioned, it was already causing stress and conflict within the group to the point where those friendships ultimately would have been lost anyway and the group disbanded. Instead of letting it come to that, we simply chose to reform. We all play the game for different reasons, I'd still be friends with all those people if they wanted to be. Trust me, it wasn't a decision made lightly, or painlessly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibi

I think it's more subtle than that. The static's raiding goals and the individual's raiding goals are the same, but where the individual's capabilities was sufficient to allow them meet those goals in FCoB, that's no longer the case for Alex Savage.

The goals stayed the same, but SE moved the goal posts.

---

Yeah, that's equally difficult. How do you tell a friend they're holding you back in content despite how hard they try? :x

A3S is breaking so many statics it's almost unbelievable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Yeah, that's equally difficult. How do you tell a friend they're holding you back in content despite how hard they try? :x

A3S is breaking so many statics it's almost unbelievable.

---

Yup, logged in yesterday to find out my in-game hubby lost his static. Same as last week. A static who got a few server 1st and server 2nd kills in ARR broke up after losing their healer on a4s. It's happening every week, statics are just blowing up. The people who still want to play are either giving up raiding or trying to find a new static. Sadly, it seems more people are opting to quit rather than keep playing.

I totally get it too. I would not want to keep playing if my static ever broke up. Our static has raided for two years now and this is the only time I have felt that we might break up if we don't get a4s down. I am sure we will get our a4s clear, I hope at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibi

I think it's more subtle than that. The static's raiding goals and the individual's raiding goals are the same, but where the individual's capabilities was sufficient to allow them meet those goals in FCoB, that's no longer the case for Alex Savage.

The goals stayed the same, but SE moved the goal posts.

---

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2422/3...a7ef4bf328.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zosia

Snip

---

I know that feeling, 2 people just decided to leave my static when we cleared A3, fortunately one of them changed his mind so we just have to find new tank for A4s. :)
But that is kinda impossible job too. Many people say that this is normal and it is how it has always been but I disagree.

In last 2 years I had less problems with statics than since Heavensward. (In my 1st post heavensward static 3 people left in A3, we had problems finding replacement so I left. I replaced BRD in this second static and now the tank left)

From what I remember earlier people were usually leaving because of IRL stuff, now it is mostly because they are bored. Atleast in my case.

I'm hopeful that SE have taken on board the many many criticisms of Alexander in general. They do have a principle of "content costs" so if they see that since July an absolutely miniscule amount of people have fully cleared Alex Savage then they will hopefully take that into account when designing the next tier.

Rather than having extra difficulty levels or nerfing/buffing the current ones, they just need more raiding content. How about 8 bosses instead of 4, and gradually increase the difficulty and quality of the drops (eg. 210 from 1-4 and 220 from 5-8). Not 2 faceroll floors then a brick wall. Hire some more developers if need be, I'm sure this game makes enough money for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alkimi

I'm hopeful that SE have taken on board the many many criticisms of Alexander in general. They do have a principle of "content costs" so if they see that since July an absolutely miniscule amount of people have fully cleared Alex Savage then they will hopefully take that into account when designing the next tier.

Rather than having extra difficulty levels or nerfing/buffing the current ones, they just need more raiding content. How about 8 bosses instead of 4, and gradually increase the difficulty and quality of the drops (eg. 210 from 1-4 and 220 from 5-8). Not 2 faceroll floors then a brick wall. Hire some more developers if need be, I'm sure this game makes enough money for it.

---

While i would hope this is the case i get the feeling they'll justify the low clear rate of Savage by interpreting it as a lack of players interested in raiding, leading them to toss more ilvl drops into things like hunts / the potential airship content coming up (which i think will make or break the first half of the 3.x series at this point).

I fully agree that they need more diverse raid content though, 4 bosses every 6-8 months at this point is really disappointing in a subscription based MMO.

I spent much of the last hour liking a number of different posts in this thread. There's a lot of great feedback and thoughts here, from different perspectives. I won't waste time retreading it, but I definitely want to echo the feeling that we're missing content that was on the level of SCOB or FCOB. For those of us that enjoyed clearing that content but weren't interested in SCOB (Savage), we have nothing. And to make matters worse, we're now unable to obtain the "best" gear sets, when we weren't before.

I can only hope the developers are taking such thoughtful feedback into account.