Lets nerf WAR :D

You can get rid of Equalibrium tp boost when overpower costs tp for aoe management unless OP costs mp like pld and drk, we get an adult sized mp pool, and some way to refill it on demand.

Wars flood of tp is there because we need it for aoe threat while pld and drk have mp instead for it and ways to recoup it.

Or if you take away war tp then make sure to remove riot blade and drk riot clone giving mp so all tanks become incapable of aoe threat.

You can't kill Equalibrium because aoe threat across the board costs lots of a resource leaving war as the only tank unable to recoupe said resource. No.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

Savage was not intended to be cleared in i190, WAR made it possible.

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Savage was not just being cleared because of WAR. It was because of both tanks maximising DPS over unnecessary mitigation, and both healers contributing DPS. The offtank DPS gap isn't as big as you think it is, you could easily do WAR MT (about as much DPS as DRK) and PLD OT, and end up with DPS barely behind DRK+WAR but with access to bigger cooldowns when the PLD needs to tank for a little while. Or if you had a NIN you could do DRK MT and PLD OT for the same result.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

You can get rid of Equalibrium tp boost when overpower costs tp for aoe management unless OP costs mp like pld and drk, we get an adult sized mp pool, and some way to refill it on demand.

Wars flood of tp is there because we need it for aoe threat while pld and drk have mp instead for it and ways to recoup it.

Or if you take away war tp then make sure to remove riot blade and drk riot clone giving mp so all tanks become incapable of aoe threat.

You can't kill Equalibrium because aoe threat across the board costs lots of a resource leaving war as the only tank unable to recoupe said resource. No.

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WAR had superior AoE hate in 2.x, PLD reducieved no direct buffs to AoE hate.

WAR got an AoE DPS buff in exchange for lower hate, expecting emnity buffs to your already buffed DPS is absurd, just use steel cyclone.

Funnily enough this is one of the main areas under contention for PLD, that it's hate skill gains nothing but hate and a debuff the mobs are or become immune to.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

WAR had superior AoE hate in 2.x, PLD reduced no direct buffs to AoE hate.

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Flash was buffed to generate more enmity.

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Originally Posted by Airswimmer

Flash was buffed to generate more enmity.

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But not more than a WAR AoE hate rotation.

Edit: and that was 2.x, my point is WAR was better at the end of 2.x AND received an AoE emnity buff through Eq TP between 2.x and 3.0 and PLD did not, so WAR which was better and is now EVEN better is in no position to complain.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

Saying that "other tanks should be buffed to WAR DPS levels because nerfing WAR would make content unclearable" is an intensely telling statement on its own.

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It may tell us that WAR is overpowered, because the content is not intended to be cleared.

Or it may tell us that DRK and/or PLD are underpowered, because the content is intended to be cleared.

Pld: spam aoe till oom. Go back to single target. Single target regen mp for more aoe.
Drk: see pld
War: spam aoe till out of tp. Then go back to single targ....wait. I cant. I'm outta tp and my single target rotation doesn't regen any tp. I'm now dead weight

No. You can't kill Equalibrium unless you make overpower cost mp and give war a big boy mp pool and make maim regen mp. Ie: make it a clone of the other tanks who use 1 resource for ST, a dif one for AOE and the ST rotation regen AOE resource. War has 1 resource. They have to be able to get some back.

You don't like homogenezation? Then you have to accept that tanks do things differently. Especially when it comes to resource management.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

If this does become a thing since apparently multiple people are suggesting it, SwO PLD and No-Grit-DRK should also take increased damage.

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http://i.imgur.com/W26J5lL.png

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Pld: spam aoe till oom. Go back to single target. Single target regen mp for more aoe.
Drk: see pld
War: spam aoe till out of tp. Then go back to single targ....wait. I cant. I'm outta tp and my single target rotation doesn't regen any tp. I'm now dead weight

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Too bad you can't cross class Flash or anything to help with TP management--oh wait...

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You don't like homogenezation? Then you have to accept that tanks do things differently. Especially when it comes to resource management.

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One has nothing to do with the other. Homogenization would be changing WAR mechanics or PLD and DRK mechanics to make all three identical. What people are asking for is tanks performing equally in DPS, utility and mitigation. Not this bullshit of one tank does more DPS and one tank is better mitigation. All that does is lead to problems as we have seen in this tier.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Pld: spam aoe till oom. Go back to single target. Single target regen mp for more aoe.
Drk: see pld
War: spam aoe till out of tp. Then go back to single targ....wait. I cant. I'm outta tp and my single target rotation doesn't regen any tp. I'm now dead weight

No. You can't kill Equalibrium unless you make overpower cost mp and give war a big boy mp pool and make maim regen mp.

You don't like homogenezation? Then you have to accept that tanks do things differently. Especially when it comes to resource management.

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A good WAR choses the number of overwhelms properly and gets both more emnity and DPS for X number of GCDs than DRK or lolPLD.

I love how you compared PLD to the other two and considered flash equal to the other despite Flash not dealing any damage whatsoever, yea sure by that assessment WAR is dead weight except oh wait still ahead of DRK and PLD didn't even contribute in the first place.

Cover everything or dont cover anything.

If your hate is low while you spam decimates in your DPS stance, use steel cyclone. No other class bar possibly DRG has the combined TP saving and regenerating abilities WAR has and WAR is not a DPS AND does NOT need as much AoE enmity generation as it has. This is why I am saying people have been spoilt, they expect to keep infinite single target TP so that they can not even have to bother using other parts of their kit, when you have good abilities like steel cyclone that other classes would kill for, and don't bother using them because your TP gain is OP, you are spoilt.

Also, insert homogenisation image macro from 3-4 pages ago. It's the numbers, not how the class plays. Classes can play differently fine, but when that results in one class being better than the others at almost everything and not notably worse than the best class in that area where it does have any drawbacks at all, changes are required. You can tweak numbers without having any effect on how the class plays.

A fundamental change of tone which I think this thread should have opened with:

WARs, you are currently best or close to best at just about every aspect of tanking, from DPS both single target and AoE, emnity both single target and AoE, to utility and universal damage mitigation.

What, if you had to lose something either entirely or partially, would be the thing you would be most OK with losing.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

A good WAR choses the number of overwhelms properly and gets both more emnity and DPS for X number of GCDs than DRK or lolPLD.

I love how you compared PLD to the other two and considered flash equal to the other dspite Flash not dealing any dmaage whatsoever, yea sure by that assessment WAR is dead weight except oh wait still ahead of DRK.

Cover everything or dont cover anything.

Also, insert homogenisation image macro from 3-4 pages ago. It's not the numbers, it's how the class plays.

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I never said anything about damage. I'm talking about each tanks ability to do the fundamental task of generating aoe and single target threat. Pld and drk have separate bucket for each task, and the ST bucket refills the AOE bucket QUICKLY. War, for whatever reason was designed with 1 bucket for both tasks and it would be a little wierd if maim gave you 100 tp to mirror the aoe threat resource regen function of riot blade and friend. So we have Equalibrium instead.

Go do A2S on war and 'ration' your overpowers without the tp regen from equalibrium. 3 gcds of flash does not magically recover enough tp to function in a prolonged 10 min endurance fight to perform fundamental aoe threat management.

I am only talking about equalibrium and resource management. If you want to go join the damage QQ support group there's plenty of other people willing to fight and cry with you over that. I don't care to wade into that sea of crap. The fact that flash does no damage is irrelivant to my point that all tanks need a fundamental way to generate both aoe and single target threat in a prolonged instance. If you take equalibrium you have to put it back in some other way to maintain that bare minimum tank functionality.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

WARs, you are currently best

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WAR being the most powerful tank isn't what's in contention. Any honest, experienced, player will likely agree that WAR is the most powerful tank.

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

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This guy is using big words and I like it.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

A fundamental change of tone which I think this thread should have opened with:

WARs, you are currently best or close to best at just about every aspect of tanking, from DPS both single target and AoE, emnity both single target and AoE, to utility and universal damage mitigation.

What, if you had to get lose something, would be the thing you would be most OK with losing.

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Editing in. :P damage is probably done though. xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

WAR being the most powerful tank isn't what's in contention. Any honest, experienced, player will likely agree that WAR is the most powerful tank.

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

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I feel like it is. WAR is considerably more potent of a tank than both DRK and PLD. PLD and DRK are the ones that are on more or less equal footing, the main thing keeping PLD from seeing usage isn't its design, but the design of raids. When one tank is way ahead of the other's its overpowered, it doesn't make the other two tanks underpowered. Now if DRK and WAR were both "overpowered" and PLD seemed poor in comparison to both, that'd be a different story, or if they buff PLD and DRK ends up in that place, then again, different story. Currently it is WAR that is the outlier. Frankly its all subjective. Its either this or the flood of buff PLD threads, and buff DRK (completely unnecessary imo), to a lesser extent. But it makes more sense to me to nerf a single job than to have to buff two others, which only seem like underperformers in the shadow of WAR.

I've said it elsewhere but it bears repeating. Every job in this game has strengths and weaknesses, not just PLD and DRK, but WAR currently has all strengths, and no genuine weaknesses. Its balance isn't just for the sake of the other tanks, but the entire game, imo.

I would go so far as to flip your argument over and say why SHOULD WAR be SO MUCH more powerful than the other tanks, OVERALL in both MT and OT DPS while being equal in mitigation/equal in utility?

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Originally Posted by Izsha

I never said anything about damage. I'm talking about each tanks ability to do the fundamental task of generating aoe and single target threat. Pld and drk have separate bucket for each task, and the ST bucket refills the AOE bucket QUICKLY. War, for whatever reason was designed with 1 bucket for both tasks and it would be a little wierd if maim gave you 100 tp to mirror the aoe threat resource regen function of riot blade and friend. So we have Equalibrium instead.

Go do A2S on war and 'ration' your overpowers without the tp regen from equalibrium. 3 gcds of flash does not magically recover enough tp to function in a prolonged 10 min endurance fight to perform fundamental aoe threat management.

I am only talking about equalibrium and resource management. If you want to go join the damage QQ support group there's plenty of other people willing to fight and cry with you over that. I don't care to wade into that sea of crap. The fact that flash does no damage is irrelivant to my point that all tanks need a fundamental way to generate both aoe and single target threat in a prolonged instance. If you take equalibrium you have to put it back in some other way to maintain that bare minimum tank functionality.

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Edit: I copied the wrong name and got the wrong stats, so based on your gear I am guessing you have done A2S, but that kind of makes things worse:


If you have done A2S you would know AS I POINTED OUT PAGES AGO that emnity is an extremely minor issue because most of the mobs are instantly stunned by a move called temporary insanity from the gobwalker. So any move that deals zero damage and only generates hate is borderline useless. Ring any bells? (Answer: Flash)

Edit 2: I left in bitchy tome farming related section assuming you werent doing savage, it wasn't relevant so I removed it.
The point was: Let's not balance classes around tome roulette, but you weren't trying to, apologies.

Dare I say you ignored damage because it undermines your entire point? Include every aspect of balance or dont comment at all.
Excluding any point of the class is the obvious way of telling the community you are trying to play the numbers or flat out lie.

It is clearly not a basic or fundamental requirement that the class has equilibrium TP to generate hate as shown in all of the 2.x patch line.

The way WAR plays feels good, the way the abilities interact with each other feels good, the class has good flexibility in terms of damage vs. tanking, the class has good utility and the class can manage its resources well

Why would you want to change this? This should be the ideal that PLD/DRK design aspires to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

WAR being the most powerful tank isn't what's in contention. Any honest, experienced, player will likely agree that WAR is the most powerful tank.

What is in contention is whether or not WAR is more powerful than it should be; that would warrant a nerf.

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Based on the fundamental design of other classes having a weakness OR a strength, yes, Warrior has to have a weakness. If war MUST be top dps then it also MUST be bad at something else.

I would much rather PLD and DRK were raised to WARs level but queue the masses of crybabies that don't understand the concept of homogenisation but are willing to cry anyway.

My argument would be:
Do PLD and DRK on average appear to be on the same level if you ignore current raid design? Yes, kinda.
Is WAR in the same spot? No. Uh oh.

@ Syz, <edited out because I just read OP and understand what you meant>

@ Giant, yes, this is one way of doing things, but if they arent, which SE doesn't want them to, there is too much of a good thing, you cannot have one classe be good at X whilst weak at Y, but WAR be good at both.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

@ Gooner, no idea what you are on about, I corrected some spellings because smartphones have to troll on spellings, is that it?

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I was referring to the word "Contention". I didn't know what it meant and had to look it up. I like when people use big words.

#KalmDown #ItsJustTheForums

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

I was referring to the word "Contention". I didn't know what it meant and had to look it up. I like when people use big words.

#KalmDown #ItsJustTheForums

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Oh sorry, everyday word for me on the job, heck google told me it meant a heated debate and I thought it just meant chatting.

Sorry man, #themoreyouknow

EDIT: GOONER! I got the wrong person i meant SYZ, you didn't even quote me, sorry lol. My bad, my bad!

I dont know what SYZ's:

'Editing in. :P damage is probably done though. xD'

is trying to get at, tiny bit vauge.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

PLD and DRK are the ones that are on more or less equal footing

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I disagree; DRK is significantly more potent than PLD in the current meta.

Quote:

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When one tank is way ahead of the other's its overpowered, it doesn't make the other two tanks underpowered.

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Not as a rule, it doesn't. Let's say DRK and PLD did 33% of the DPS that WAR could do, but WAR is only pulling 300 DPS. By your logic, WAR is overpowered, even though they're all incredibly weak. One class being better than another doesn't prove, as a rule, that one or the other is over or underpowered. I understand that people use these terms loosely, but you're using it to justify nerfing WAR.

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if PLD seemed poor in comparison to both, that'd be a different story

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It is poor in comparison to both.

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Frankly its all subjective.

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Bullshit; you just can't (or won't) come up with any objective criteria to bolster your proposition.

Quote:

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I would go so far as to flip your argument over and say why SHOULD WAR be SO MUCH more powerful than the other tanks, OVERALL in both MT and OT DPS while being equal in mitigation/equal in utility?

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I never said it should be. And, for the record, I don't think it should be. Again, what's in contention is whether or not WAR deserves to be nerfed; it's not the only solution to the problem of tank balance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

The way WAR plays feels good, the way the abilities interact with each other feels good, the class has good flexibility in terms of damage vs. tanking, the class has good utility and the class can manage its resources well

Why would you want to change this? This should be the ideal that PLD/DRK design aspires to.

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Damage and utility should not be the defining elements of tank classes, since that creates incongruities in performance that lead to scenarios not unlike what we're seeing right now. The metagame isn't the only source of the problem; how SE approached tank design is a part of it too.

This said, my own concern would be relative damage between tanks and DPS. That's why I'd be hesitant to buff PLD damage and simply would lower tank emphasis on DPS a bit while making all 3 perform close to each other numberswise. Gameplay choices are attached to this, since by design PLD, WAR and DRK are clearly not meant to be tanking outside of Grit/Defiance/Shield Oath, and I have a feeling part of the issue would go away if you somehow forced all three to full-time their tank stances when main tanking (if I recall, Defiance WAR was pulling slightly ahead of a Shield Oath PLD back in ARR).

The next item would be utility, which is rather sparse on WAR with the exception of how strong Storm's Path is (which I suspect is a reason for WAR being guaranteed a raid spot). This is where you need to homogenize a bit. Either make Halone and Delirium provide the same effect, or make Storm's Path a buff that only affects the WAR.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

I disagree; DRK is significantly more potent than PLD in the current meta.



Not as a rule, it doesn't. Let's say DRK and PLD did 33% of the DPS that WAR could do, but WAR is only pulling 300 DPS. By your logic, WAR is overpowered, even though they're all incredibly weak. One class being better than another doesn't prove, as a rule, that one or the other is over or underpowered. I understand that people use these terms loosely, but you're using it to justify nerfing WAR.



It is poor in comparison to both.



Bullshit; you just can't (or won't) come up with any objective criteria to bolster your proposition.



I never said it should be. And, for the record, I don't think it should be. Again, what's in contention is whether or not WAR deserves to be nerfed; it's not the only solution to the problem of tank balance.

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Without commenting on any of your conclusions I want to point out we also have DPS classes as a reference for whether or not tanks DPS is overpowered.

We aren't as much in a vacuum as you imply. There is an upper bound set by DPS classes which arguably WAR is violating, and a lower bound set by raid requirements which PLD is arguably violating in early weeks (the ones that matter).

It isn't easy to call exactly.

Point out for future quoters: Arguably means that the evidence provides basis for people to begin discussing something, nothing I have said is conclusive, I have had enough of being quoted out of context tonight >.>


Edit: Apology for Gooner in my previous post I derped. <insert rant here about unlike the rest of the forums i correct myself when I get something wrong>








EDIT FOR AIRSWIMMER BELOW AS I HIT DAILY POST CAP:

:( :( :(

I put specifically that my post was an indicator and nothing certain and I don't think that came across properly.

:( :( :(

What I am referring to is that around about the time people started doing 3.x raids, WAR dps looked threateningly close to DPS numbers, to the point concerns were raised by serious *DPS class* players, wheras PLD and DRK did not. It isn't beating DPS, but it looked like it was getting too close for comfort.

Again (i am typing this so it can be stripped out of quotes) this was a community opinion, if you want exact numbers the community has a database on raid DPS where you can see how close to actual DPS classes WAR parses with respect to DRK and PLD. I highly recommend taking a look if you have not, of course I don't know the link off the top of my head :(

Violating just means breaking its a journal habit and i have been writing too much tonight, sorry.

Night all, no more posts for Mee ._.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

snip

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I love you. Sadly I don't work with as many people with exceptional vocabularies as I'd like too LOL. NOW LETS GET BACK TO THE DEBATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

I want to point out we also have DPS classes as a reference for whether or not tanks DPS is overpowered.

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Fair enough; use that objective criteria to prove the point (not necessarily saying that you have anything to prove). I originally came into this thread in order to ask for something like that.

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It isn't easy to call exactly.

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I agree; that's been my point this whole time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Fair enough; use that objective criteria to prove the point. I originally came into this thread in order to ask for something like that.



I agree; that's been my point this whole time.

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Then my friend, you are spot on, have a post like because I can't offer any more.

The story is the same for mitigation.

The important thing is to have some idea of the right direction to go in and make frequent small steps that way.

Changes are coming in 3.1

*Bursts into tears*

No PWN intended but...

Even a mainly PVE based game has 15+ pages of "Nerf this class" thread, try to imagine if this is a PVP based game...I say 150 pages!

Why can't we duel each other??!

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Originally Posted by ZothStormfury

No PWN intended but...

Even a mainly PVE based game has 15+ pages of "Nerf this class" thread, try to imagine if this is a PVP based game...I say 150 pages!

Why can't we duel each other??!

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WAR is pretty strong in PvP but oh dear SMN make it stop.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

WAR is pretty strong in PvP but oh dear SMN make it stop.

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DEEEEAAAATTTHHH FLAAAARRREEE!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

We aren't as much in a vacuum as you imply. There is an upper bound set by DPS classes which arguably WAR is violating, and a lower bound set by raid requirements which PLD is arguably violating in early weeks (the ones that matter).

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Where are WARs "violating" the upper bound set by DPS, and if they are violating it how are DRKs not?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Damage and utility should not be the defining elements of tank classes, since that creates incongruities in performance that lead to scenarios not unlike what we're seeing right now. The metagame isn't the only source of the problem; how SE approached tank design is a part of it too.

This said, my own concern would be relative damage between tanks and DPS. That's why I'd be hesitant to buff PLD damage and simply would lower tank emphasis on DPS a bit while making all 3 perform close to each other numberswise. Gameplay choices are attached to this, since by design PLD, WAR and DRK are clearly not meant to be tanking outside of Grit/Defiance/Shield Oath, and I have a feeling part of the issue would go away if you somehow forced all three to full-time their tank stances when main tanking (if I recall, Defiance WAR was pulling slightly ahead of a Shield Oath PLD back in ARR).

The next item would be utility, which is rather sparse on WAR with the exception of how strong Storm's Path is (which I suspect is a reason for WAR being guaranteed a raid spot). This is where you need to homogenize a bit. Either make Halone and Delirium provide the same effect, or make Storm's Path a buff that only affects the WAR.

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I disagree. Sitting around in tank stance is boring and requires no thought or skill. Stance dancing means more interesting gameplay for both the tank and the healers.

It also isn't required unless you're in savage. Everything else you can sit in tank stance all day, or stance dance as you see fit.

It's fine to have differences in damage and utility. But the WAR clearly brings the best of both right now which is the problem. Particularly for the PLD who is way behind in Utility, AoE DPS, shield oath DPS, threat generation and TP management.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I disagree. Sitting around in tank stance is boring and requires no thought or skill. Stance dancing means more interesting gameplay for both the tank and the healers.

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I don't see anything interesting or skillful in having an extra button to push. Your argument would have worked with vanilla WoW warriors because they had actual utility locked behind stances (our interrupt could only be used in Berserker Stance, our fear break/immunity could only be used in Berserker Stance, our stun could only be used in Defensive Stance), and even then it was clunky design that limited gameplay in certain situations (fear break macros were very unreliable, for example).

Also consider that forcing PLD, DRK and WAR to full-time Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance while main tanking helps keep MT DPS on a leash. It'd also be a step in relieving tank DPS from the duty of carrying groups to clears for DPS checks (since that's supposed to be the DPS' responsibility, not the tank's). You'd also be eliminating a factor to balance encounters around since it'd create a specific margin of expected damage from the main tank. Quite a few positives just from nipping that problem in the bud.

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It also isn't required unless you're in savage.

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And as I've repeatedly said, this shit rolls downhill. It won't surprise me to eventually see people in DF runs giving tanks crap for sticking to their tank stances instead of switching like the "pros" do. This is the same playerbase that fostered WARs in 2.0 that would tell me to MT because "lol war cant tank" HM Garuda.

People like crying nerf til everythings nerfed to hell then they quit because classes feel dull, the only thing worth reading on that list is point 6, the war enmity combo also being its highest hitting, makes no sense as an OT, being that aggro is ripped off like crazy from the mt (specislly a non aggro combo using tank like drk.

The (il)logical thing to do would be to buff storms eye/path combo a bit more than BB combo. Why? There is no logic as to why but drk has the same thing going for it so why not? It wouldnt affect war at all other than applying storms path wouldnt seem as worthless (not saying it is, but in content where you dont need it you dont apply it) and BB combo would only be used to gen enmity

This thread should just be called "Why the Square Enix Forums shouldn't help design this game".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lashe

This thread should just be called "Why the Square Enix Forums shouldn't help design this game".

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This is my kinda post. ( ' - ' )b

If warrior is so overpowered, why weren't the first clears of Alexander Savage consisted of double warrior then?

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

WAR is pretty strong in PvP but oh dear SMN make it stop.

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kinda off-topic but damn WAR/PLD is fucking awesome duo in FL, that setup eats everything alive when they have godlike synegry. Stun-locking + awesome burst melts everything in mere seconds, also if PLD covers WAR he soaks all dots and stuns thus allowing WAR to become unstoppable killing machine in middle of enemy pack D:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synestra

kinda off-topic but damn WAR/PLD is fucking awesome duo in FL, that setup eats everything alive when they have godlike synegry. Stun-locking + awesome burst melts everything in mere seconds, also if PLD covers WAR he soaks all dots and stuns thus allowing WAR to become unstoppable killing machine in middle of enemy pack D:

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https://youtu.be/39j5v8jlndM?t=134

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnMccain

If warrior is so overpowered, why weren't the first clears of Alexander Savage consisted of double warrior then?

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because the limit break meter will fill slower than usual if you have 2 player with the same job, and the effect is becoming larger if there are more than 2 players from the same job
if that rule/system doesn't exist it might or even most likely happen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konpachizaraki

because the limit break meter will fill slower than usual if you have 2 player with the same job, and the effect is becoming larger if there are more than 2 players from the same job
if that rule/system doesn't exist it might happen
and that is why pre-2.1 people were using double PLD and double WHM because that rule isn't applied yet that time

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BG cleared t8 before anyone else using 3 monks?