CT is dead, please fix

I am for unsynced content LoTA would take the most work. The other two have barely any content that couldn't be considered 8 man. I am for helping people run through old content unsynced get in kill shit leave.

Roulette fine as long as the reward is no more then anything else in the game. Nothing to complain about here. I must be the only one who think roulette's aren't worth the effort. I can pick the thing I want to do. Do it and get more xp/reward then the time a roulette unless you get lucky and get a story mode primal, that is some fast xp.

I didn't think the relic system was fair. They held players captive that wanted that content. If it is unsynced and someone wants to bring a first timer for some gil, great.

I do feel they missed the boat on re-balancing all the post 2.1 content though. They could have changed them all from 20-45 dungeons thrown the same gear per level in moved those sets to a vendor. And pow you don't get Haukke manor 7 days in a row for leveling roulette

No thank you. I've seen enough people NOT turning around for mortal gaze, and then NOT even going to the glowing platform to get rid of doom for one lifetime. Thank you very much!

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

No thank you. I've seen enough people NOT turning around for mortal gaze, and then NOT even going to the glowing platform to get rid of doom for one lifetime. Thank you very much!

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Okay, that's nice. Then don't do it, I totally feel you. I had a group about a week ago that was so terrible that we beat our heads against CoD for an hour and still couldn't win.

But you haven't addressed any reason why we shouldn't have an optional roulette for the people who do want to do it, similar to Main Scenario roulette.

I honestly really miss these runs, they were fun!

At least having an undersized PT option or SOMETHING so that we can enter would be nice.

Also everyone that missed out on the Minion / card drops are just totally left screwed nowadays.

Look at all these people saying they suddenly miss CT when a few months ago they couldn't help but complain and whine about how awful it used to be and loathed doing it.

How fickle and short some peoples' memories are.

I enjoyed the CT's and miss them too.

Both sides of this are valid - Doing them weekly forever is a drip considering it's old content.
New people having to wait forever for pops is a little unfair, because catching up to everyone else is probably daunting.

Maybe if we were to do these just once a month with a bonus 100 ESO or something (or anything relevant) it'd be a nice thing to have because 1. New players are likely not to wait as long. 2. Players who don't want to do old content don't have to. 3. People who like doing the old content get something for their time.

Yea hopefully they do something to bring these back.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

Look at all these people saying they suddenly miss CT when a few months ago they couldn't help but complain and whine about how awful it used to be and loathed doing it.

How fickle and short some peoples' memories are.

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Or maybe some of us actually think of other people. I hated grinding CT, but I don't want to see it abandoned and dead for new people, and wouldn't mind sticking through it for rewards that were worthwhile.

What's so bad about making it more rewarding for everyone and keeping the full game's experience healthy for new people?

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

Look at all these people saying they suddenly miss CT when a few months ago they couldn't help but complain and whine about how awful it used to be and loathed doing it.

How fickle and short some peoples' memories are.

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Unless you're personally tracking someone's posts, this is a tired cliche argument with no substance. They're not the same people; even if they were, people often support things that don't benefit them personally. They're also allowed to change their mind. Have you ever looked back at something and laughed even though you didn't find it funny at the time? Does that mean you have a fickle and short memory?

The main problem I had with the CT duties.... well, the two main problems, were:
1: the wiping on the pre-duty boss. All those "member has withdrawn from queue" messages >.< This was mostly alleviated by the withdraw penalty.
2: the trolls and the "lol what mechanics?" jerks.

I love the places, and apart from some of it *coughSyrcusTowerMeleeDPSgear* I enjoyed trying to get them all. And even when I'd gotten my WoD loot of the week and done the weekly quest, I still went in there several times -- sometimes to help friends out, sometimes solo -- just for the fun of it. Of course, the closer and closer you got to the weekly reset, the higher the risk of getting a troll run.

I'd love to go there a bunch more, since I still have WoD glamours to collect, and I still don't have the tank headgear from LotA D: During the whole WoD lifetime, I saw it drop TWICE. Both times, I was on my healer due to two others in my party only having tank jobs levelled. Both times, I lost the greed roll to others in the group that weren't part of the preformed. The reason I don't go is because of the queue time. Which doesn't help the queue time, especially if 75% of the others who'd love to go think the same thing.

I know it's been mentioned that they were thinking of rebalancing the CT raids for 8-man parties, which would help a lot with the queue times. Plus it'd be a lot easier to just gather up some friends when you only need to find seven others instead of 23 others. I'm just hoping that they actually decide to do that rebalancing and then not take another year to do it ^^;

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

Look at all these people saying they suddenly miss CT when a few months ago they couldn't help but complain and whine about how awful it used to be and loathed doing it.

How fickle and short some peoples' memories are.

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Oh I haven't forgotten. I've had several runs in World of Darkness in which no one could even clear the first boss because no one would turn away from the damn gaze attack, nor bother to clear their doom status. That's not even getting into the fact that other runs had the Tanks play "Merry-go-round!" with said boss, along with Tanks NOT picking up the adds at Cerberus. So I too understand that pain all too well.

But you know what? I still want the developers to make this content relevant again in some way. A roulette. Relic Weapons. Something. Why? Because I'm thinking about those new players to the game who haven't even gotten a chance to clear the said content yet. I certainly wouldn't mind running that place again for the memories either. But in order to do that, I need 23 other people. And as it currently stands, there just isn't any incentive for most players to do it, leaving behind those who haven't acquired all the loot they want from the Crystal Tower raids (the minions and cards, in particular) along with the new players.

But god forbid new players to the game get to experience what the older players experienced eh?

I ran CT a million times and you want me to run it again with the same people who cant understand simple mechanics and I Have to teach them every single queue? No thank you

towers were great just because it showed how wide the skill gap really is between players. one run you'd be done in just under 20minutes skipping phases on every boss, the next you'd have shout arguments and wipes and abandons left and right.

same thing happens in dungeons and trials, but it was a lot more entertaining with 23 other people.

When it gets undead maybe then I can get the Onion Knight card. :D

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

"Coil is dead. Please fix"
"EX fights are dead. Please fix."
"Void Ark is dead. Please fix.

So on and so forth. Your problem is that the population has outgrown old content, regardless of what carrots on sticks get tossed in then. This is something that Square can't fix, really.

Also, CT sucks.

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The difference being that I see coil and ex fights in party finder constantly, and you can make your own and fill it within 30 minutes, or run it with like 4 people if you're doing bcob. Most of the ex fights you can do with a half party.

There's a huge difference between that and people literally not being able to do tower at all.

Asking for CT to remain dead content because you don't like it is super selfish.

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Originally Posted by Escha

I ran CT a million times and you want me to run it again with the same people who cant understand simple mechanics and I Have to teach them every single queue? No thank you

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So the very first time you ever did any of the CT raids, you just telepathically 'saw' how the fights were supposed to go and never made a mistake? Rigghhtt lol
Watching the video guides may help some people who are visual learners but many need to be told how it goes and then learn hands on.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

... which is different from all of the other roulettes how? Do you really think most people would be running CM and Prae over and over just for the fun of it? No, they do it for the tomestones from Main Scenario Roulette.

Just admit that you have a personal hateboner for CT and stop trying to justify it with arguments that don't even make sense.

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I don't do CM or Prae either. Poetics are useless anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Couldn't have said it better myself. Raid content should always be relevant despite when it came out.

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No, it shouldn't. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

No, it shouldn't. Sorry.

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A+ argument, 10/10, totally convinced me you're right. Truly, your debate skills are the stuff of legend, to be heralded in the forum for years to come.

Also you entirely missed the point on roulettes. That you don't do them is completely and utterly irrelevant. The point was that people run roulettes because of rewards, not because of which dungeons they cover. You could replace the Main Scenario Roulette with any other, and it's the same point (one you seem to go out of your way to not get).

First off I would love to see all the 24 person raids relevant again. Even if they only put exp in them. I would love to grind all three 24 person raids each week to get 1 lvl 50 class to 51 and get a sweet iron works weapon as well to start off with in the lvl 51 dungeon. They could give 50k exp per boss and 3k off the trash mobs and if doing the weekly quest you get 100k exp per orb. That alone would keep the 24 person raids relevant for a long time.

Having the 24 person raids give exp would be awesome and would help to break up the grind from running dungeons and fate farming. I think 250k - 350k exp total per run would be fare and a daily roulette would be nice as well.

Another thing I wish the devs would do is once you hit 60 you can run the lvl 55 - 59 dungeons and all 24 person raids for law and eso's... 20 eso's and 50 law would be fare and would help give us more stuff to do besides pvp bizerk fest.

Even though the 24 person raids are old doesn't mean they are not fun. I ran ct well over 75+ times just for the tank chest (really bad luck with drops) for glamour and I still enjoy running it. Just because it's old doesn't mean there is no life left in it.

Is the q times for ultima HM and Diablos really long? I still have those in quest journal and never tried to do those yet...

Oh and I still havn't done any of the ex primals. I basically whent throut main storyline accessed ishguard and started doing all HW content and sorta skiped over that stuff, maybe I need to go back and do that stuff.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

So the very first time you ever did any of the CT raids, you just telepathically 'saw' how the fights were supposed to go and never made a mistake? Rigghhtt lol
Watching the video guides may help some people who are visual learners but many need to be told how it goes and then learn hands on.

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You completely missed the point. CT is tedious enough to run back when it was still hot shit to farm gear and it's most likely to be more tedious when you want it to be relevant again. You teach people to do stuff, they're incompetent to comprehend simple mechanics and the fact that there are assholes pressing vote abandon every single wipe on simple shit like bone dragon, scylla and angra mainyu

NOPE. CRYSTAL TOWER NEVER AGAIN

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Originally Posted by Escha

You completely missed the point. CT is tedious enough to run back when it was still hot shit to farm gear and it's most likely to be more tedious when you want it to be relevant again. You teach people to do stuff, they're incompetent to comprehend simple mechanics and the fact that there are assholes pressing vote abandon every single wipe on simple shit like bone dragon, scylla and angra mainyu

NOPE. CRYSTAL TOWER NEVER AGAIN

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You act like all the other raid content is better.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

No, it shouldn't. Sorry.

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Yes, it should. Good talk.

Better than CT that's for sure. CT was only made for people who were too bad for coil.

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Originally Posted by Escha

You completely missed the point. CT is tedious enough to run back when it was still hot shit to farm gear and it's most likely to be more tedious when you want it to be relevant again.

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The opposite is true. It was tedious because you had to run it for gear and weapon upgrades. People felt forced to put up with it even if they were utterly sick of it, leading to a lot of trolling out of boredom.

Adding minor incentives now won't have the same effect. You can earn exp and tomestones in many different ways, so anyone who gets sick of CT can just do something else. Even if the new relic quest requires it, it'll still be easier (and more optional) than getting upgrade items for all your gear slots.

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Originally Posted by Escha

CT was only made for people who were too bad for coil.

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Something tells me you were one of the people wiping groups on easy mechanics and then initiating vote abandon. Obvious troll, 3/10.

Ok i think people dont understand here (and my bad english isnt gonna help xD), but we want like at least a roulette to make them active again, if they gave to you exp or tomes its allright, nobody say lets grind that sh*t over and over again like old times!

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Originally Posted by seorin

Something tells me you were one of the people wiping groups on easy mechanics and then initiating vote abandon. Obvious troll, 3/10.

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IGN - so obvious she calls herself an Elitist, 4/10 for graphics

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Originally Posted by seorin

The opposite is true. It was tedious because you had to run it for gear and weapon upgrades. People felt forced to put up with it even if they were utterly sick of it, leading to a lot of trolling out of boredom.

Adding minor incentives now won't have the same effect. You can earn exp and tomestones in many different ways, so anyone who gets sick of CT can just do something else. Even if the new relic quest requires it, it'll still be easier (and more optional) than getting upgrade items for all your gear slots.

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If the incentive is too great people will feel obligated to run it to the point of tedium. If the incentive is "minor" then people still won't bother doing it enough to revive the queue times.

We need to accept that content can't stay relevant forever. Even if SE did "fix" CT by finding a way to force people to run it again it would only be a temporary solution. As soon as people stop chasing the newest carrot we'll be right back to complaining about long queue times on outdated content.

The only thing they should do is give us the option to Unsync it. Adding the CT Trio to the roulette or making it part of the 3.0 relic as ways to "fix" it are bad ideas for a multitude of reasons.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

If the incentive is too great people will feel obligated to run it to the point of tedium. If the incentive is "minor" then people still won't bother doing it enough to revive the queue times.

We need to accept that content can't stay relevant forever. Even if SE did "fix" CT by finding a way to force people to run it again it would only be a temporary solution. As soon as people stop chasing the newest carrot we'll be right back to complaining about long queue times on outdated content.

The only thing they should do is give us the option to Unsync it. Adding the CT Trio to the roulette or making it part of the 3.0 relic as ways to "fix" it are bad ideas for a multitude of reasons.

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Thank you.

/10char

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Originally Posted by seorin

Something tells me you were one of the people wiping groups on easy mechanics and then initiating vote abandon. Obvious troll, 3/10.

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Oh just completely ignore my point and just dismiss it as a "trol"l, great post. And 24 man is catered towards people who can't keep up with coil is it not?

I'd like to see at least the ability to run these unsynched. I'd like to 130 several pieces of Poetics gear and weapons for glamour purposes, but most of my current playgroup never did FCOB. If we could run these unsynched it would at least make running the weekly a possible thing again. (Though CT would probably need to be retooled, as the Atomos fight wouldn't be passable without a minimum of 15 people (4 for each pad and 1 person to solo each maw).

I do agree that old content should not be relevant forever, but people should still be able to DO it. In WoW you can still go back through old raid instances and blitz through them if you want. Not so for CT because you have to get 24 people queued up for it which is a real pain especially in the case of LoTA, and it will only get worse over time because fewer and fewer people will run it, which is a real shame because CT is a gorgeous and pretty fun raid with a decently interesting storyline that ties into the main story.

On the other hand I don't want them wasting development time on making old raids accessible. It should be a cut and dry fix like allow undersizing, remove all monetary rewards to prevent RMT from spamming it, and have undersize version apply like a 50% stats buff or something.

I really don't think unsyncing it would be as viable for everyone as some people think, nor would it be desirable for people wanting the full, mostly intended experience.

I'm on Balmung and I don't think I could pull together even 8 people to run CT consistently. Anyone able to do that would be at an ilvl and level where there would be little reason to do that anyways.

A new person with even fewer connections than me, or someone on a much lower populated server would really struggle.

No, it's best we give people a reason to go back that's worthwhile. XIV has been using this formula, it's worked fine, I haven't seen many complaints about it (even on the forums), why change it?

Even relics will be optional. If you hate CT that much, and relics involve it somehow, simply opt out of doing a relic. There will be grinds everyone hates in them. Just how it is.

I'm sure SE would rather keep the new player experience alive and minorly inconvenience (but reward) a few vocal veterans than make a few veterans happy but sacrifice new players. And it would make no sense to do the alternative. You'll be hard pressed to find a step in the ARR relic questline that no one at all hates, and some parts some people hate more than others.

I think it's a beautiful thing to finally be in an MMO where the developers haven't abandoned and killed old content in the name of progress. We get progress and we get populated content for everyone at all levels. Hopefully CT will be helped back into the fold as well.

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Originally Posted by Escha

Oh just completely ignore my point and just dismiss it as a "trol"l, great post. And 24 man is catered towards people who can't keep up with coil is it not?

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No, it's not. It's catered towards whoever wants to do it for what it has and is.

I've done the hardest content in other games, raided, etc. I don't doubt that I could do it in this game too, but I've lost my interest in bleeding edge, hardcore raiding in MMOs.

24 man raids are something else for people like me to do. Not just for people who aren't skilled enough for coil, but also people who just have no interest in it and people who don't have time for it.

So if you weren't trolling, your "point" did at least fail to make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I'm on Balmung and I don't think I could pull together even 8 people to run CT consistently. Anyone able to do that would be at an ilvl and level where there would be little reason to do that anyways.

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Then are you sure many players want it to be relevant again? Balmung is one of the most populated servers. If you don't think you could scrounge up 8 people willing to run it for fun, that says a bit.

People suggesting unsynched are trying to compromise with you, because some of us don't want to run old content to get new gear. CT had it's time in the spotlight, it's not fair to the new 24 man to split the time. Some of us don't want a reason to go back to it because that sounds an awful lot like forcing us back to it. Sure, it's optional, so is wearing gear or ever leveling a battle class. But if you incentivize it then it has to be worth while, and not doing it is sabotaging ourselves. Throw out something other than the one way you envision this working. You've been extremely uncompromising.

The incentives are particularly troubling in the context that you are saying no one is willing (not only wants, but just is willing) to run it for fun on your server.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

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I'm pretty sure the lack of complaints points to either apathy or support of it. Complaints happen when people are discontent, and I haven't seen much complaining about this system. Actually I've seen more people praise it than complain about it personally. This thread is actually where I've seen most of the complaints about the system of all my time playing. Haven't seen many people complaining about it before now, even though it's been going on for a long time.

And it is fair to the new 24 man. The new 24man will drop gear that isn't outdated for maxed out jobs, the old one will give non-gear incentives for returning, minus the relic of course.

Not being uncompromising at all. People saying unsynced is the only way are.

SE has been doing what I'm suggesting for as long as I can remember, because it benefits everyone and is optional. How much more fair can you get for everyone? That IS the compromise, the payment in the form of incentives is to reward people for doing something they may not want to do. AKA pretty much any grind. Everyone benefits.

Oh and uhhh...relics ARE very optional. I know many people who chose not to do ARR relics (myself included) and things worked out just fine.

You said yourself that leveling off dungeons is better than roulettes, so any experience given by a CT roulette surely wouldn't make that obsolete, would it?

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Originally Posted by Adire

So if you weren't trolling, your "point" did at least fail to make any sense.

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That's your problem if you can't comprehend a simple paragraph I just posted.

So you want to incentivize it, but not with an incentive worth running? Then what's the point?

Looking at other roulettes, there's a pattern.
Low level: contains dungeons required to progress
High level: contains dungeons required to progress
MSQ: contains dungeons required to progress
trials: contains trials required to progress
guidlhests: contains guildhests required to progress

Is there any other compromise you can throw out besides roulette? I can get people seeing it being fun for them (though majority...? arguable, let's just leave that), but it's not really what roulettes were for.

And is this about irrelevant content in general, or a few people on a crusade about CT? There's plenty of irrelevant content now. All the coils, all ex primals. Those get done plenty for glamour/story/pony, and allowing unsynched really breathed some life into them. Why is unsynched not enough? That's really the uncompromising part. You don't seem to have any reason why not, except that it's not what you'd prefer. It would solve the problem easily. CT has glamours/minions/story to incentivize it already, which is as much as any of the other old content (which people often run unsyched) has.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

And is this about irrelevant content in general, or a few people on a crusade about CT? There's plenty of irrelevant content now. All the coils, all ex primals. Those get done plenty for glamour/story/pony, and allowing unsynched really breathed some life into them. Why is unsynched not enough? That's really the uncompromising part. You don't seem to have any reason why not, except that it's not what you'd prefer. It would solve the problem easily. CT has glamours/minions/story to incentivize it already, which is as much as any of the other old content (which people often run unsyched) has.

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As a side note, I managed to get all of Coil unlocked and have run everything up to T9 *because* of the unsync'ed option. Farming T5 for that gun drop tho.. T.T

They sync me to level 50 and that's gross though. :(

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

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Never did I say I wanted to incentivize it with things not worthwhile, everywhere have I said that I want it to be worthwhile. If you're referring to potential experience from it not making dungeons obsolete, that's a moot point, because an alternative to dungeon grinding =/= an un-worthwhile incentive.

Roulettes are but one incentive. Relics are another. New triad cards and such could be yet another example. All of these would serve to reward people who have completed it, and repopulate CT.

The reason CT is brought up more is because it's something more in line with what the average player would do, while coil and ex primals are designed for the more hardcore player. And yes, unsynced has breathed some life into them, made them more accessible. You're forgetting however that this content is designed for an 8man group, not a 24man group.

Not to mention, players who want the intended experience of what they're doing may not have the skill to do coil or ex primals, but may have the skill to do CT. For these players, a synced CT would give them that and be possible, but a synced coil/ex primal would not. And thus, that leaves the only way to get the proper 24man raid with some semblance to its intended difficulty as being incentives to repopulate it rather than make it unsynced.

And while I'm not in opposition of unsynced being an option as well, incentives would be a much better way to do things in addition to unsynced. Adherence to a formula that works well is not a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Escha

That's your problem if you can't comprehend a simple paragraph I just posted.

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Let's analyze your post and try to make it simple for you, shall we?

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Originally Posted by Escha

Better than CT that's for sure. CT was only made for people who were too bad for coil.

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What did I respond to this with?

I said, I have done hardcore content in previous games. I don't doubt that I could do coil. I choose not to do coil because I am no longer interested in hardcore raiding. I am proof that CT was not "made for people who were too bad for coil."

Why am I proof of this? Because I do CT, but I highly doubt I would be too bad for coil. I also said some people simply did not have time to commit to a static and hardcore raid. CT was also designed for these people.

And CT was designed for anyone who would like to do it. Your "point" that CT is exclusively designed for coil rejects is nonsensical, or a troll post. It seems you're the one in need of better reading comprehension.

CT was created as an alternate gearing route for people who missed the boat on getting a static that would run coils. I don't mean the gear IN CT but the poetics/soldiery gear and weapons which is pretty much equal to the Coils gear and weapons