To all the flames on primal datacenter...

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Originally Posted by C00KIE_M0N57R

The notion that I'm getting at, is that spawn camping is unsporting. Its on the same level as teabagging people that you killed (and i can confirm this personally, you can get jail time for this xD).

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What happens on the internet, stays on the internet... until you get jail time for it lol.

Seriously though, it is unsporting and not and entirely wise tactic.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Spawn camping is still a way to gain points if the enemy is straight up feeding kills. It's a valid tactic as anything else (with equally high risks attached to it).

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Valid does not necessarily mean smart. More often than not, I see spawn camping leading to more point deficits than surpluses. Too many things can go wrong. You're far from your spawn, so regrouping is difficult.Tunnel vision can mean ignoring new node spawns, and, when some of the team realize that there are new nodes to be had and the 3rd GC is getting a free ride through all of them, the spawn camping team ends up getting split between those who are paying attention and those who are too focused on the camp. The team gets divided and are weaker on both fronts. Risking all of this just for a few kills from trickle in spawns who are being blindsided is not a very wise decision. More often than not, when a team spawn camps the only thing they're doing is guaranteeing a win for the 3rd GC that isn't involved.

The only time spawn camping actually works in anyone's favour is when the team being camped is feeding so hard that you gain more points from their deaths than you might off of nodes... which is highly unlikely. Plus, it's just plain dirty. Any team that goes for the spawn camp instead of fighting over nodes is essentially opting to bag easy kills off of unorganized and lonely respawns instead of standing toe to toe in an even fight. Valid tactic or not, it's usually unwise and blatantly cowardly.

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Originally Posted by Februs

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Like everything, it depends on the context. It's just that spawn camping is incredibly high risk (the more people you commit to it, the less you have for map control on new node spawns, not to mention the potential of the other team fighting back or sitting at the camp, which is too big of a variable to reliably quantify, much more so than the actual node spawns themselves) for mediocre rewards (points from kills). The very few exceptions is if you're throttling and cutting off respawns of the team that is ahead in points

Yes it depends on the situation. It never makes any sense to spawn camp the last place team since not only does it suffer diminishing returns in terms of kills for points as their score continues to lower, but you are also more than likely gonna suffer a retaliatory tunnel vision attack from that GC which the other GC you are competing against will be more than happy to take advantage of as they close in for the pincer.

The only time I ever found myself spawn camping as a maelstrom (as in a real spawn trap where mostly everyone in the GC will come participate in it and not just a small group of trolls looking for easy kills) was when score dictated we had no choice cause the first place team is too far ahead and too close to winning for us to come back from nodes alone. The first place team may opt to spawn camp (the 2nd place team) in order to preserve/extend their lead or the second place team may opt to do it (on the 1st place team) in order to make a comeback. To me this sort of spawn camping isnt as egregious since its still a tactic with winning being the primary goal in mind rather than just killing for the sake of farming a weak GC or grieving.

Spawn camping the last place team however as I said is pretty low since the point differential you are acquiring isnt as substantial as it would be had you attacked your closest competitor the 2nd place team. Especially if that last place team has so little points that you actually stop receiving points from killing them since they have no points to give. There is pretty much no reason to spawn camp like that other than for grieving purposes. Yet I still see it happen lol.

I'm going to make some videos of these matches, maybe a reddit post. Every game today has just been both teams pushing Adders to spawn and keeping them there all game. So many 0 point games in a row. It really seems like at certain times of the day one team will just get ganged up on mercilessly.

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Originally Posted by Farrell

I'm going to make some videos of these matches, maybe a reddit post. Every game today has just been both teams pushing Adders to spawn and keeping them there all game. So many 0 point games in a row. It really seems like at certain times of the day one team will just get ganged up on mercilessly.

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What times do you play? I play evenings from 8 pm to 2 AM eastern and haven't really noticed it. I expect to get sandwiched every game now its just how this game mode is unfortunately.

It's just the Adders beef maelscum and f-lames have since slaughter

From what it seems like the Flames in general have a tunnel vision for a single group and it always screws them up. I've had points where nodes go away, Limsa or Girdania try to back up and find new nodes, flames just follow. Nodes spawn near Flames..and yet the other team takes them while the flames are busy trying to fight the other loosing team. There have been so many matches were either team will be ahead by about 300 points, because the flames are doing just enough to hurt the other team...without actually winning. There are streaks where they do go all out, organized and win but not a lot.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

There are streaks where they do go all out, organized and win but not a lot.

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You must play with a very different group of Flames than me.

You're right about chasing. I see the Flames do it all the time, about just as often as I've seen Mael do it, or Adders... So, everyone, really, but, as far as winning goes, I win almost just as often as I lose, sometimes more. Played about 5 or 6 rounds last night and I'm sitting at 50% victory rate (given that it was "Casual Tuesday" this blew my mind a little). On average I end the week with around a 40% victory rate... so, I'd say Flames win often enough, just not often enough to satisfy all of us, cuz' we're HUNGRY.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

What times do you play? I play evenings from 8 pm to 2 AM eastern and haven't really noticed it. I expect to get sandwiched every game now its just how this game mode is unfortunately.

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I'm figuring out times have a lot to do with it. Late at night adders seem to win a decent amount. Early in the morning you can get eight mans, and those are really fun honestly. In the daytime? The entire match basically happens in the adders spawn. I started around 1pm est and im currently 0/2/14. Daytime games are if you reallllly just want to spam games for exp.

Anybody playing pvp today? Literally every single game is just flames doing everything to help mael win. Every single game. Flames don't even try to win, they just there to make sure mael wins.And ppl wonder why most mael players have 50%-70% win rates on primal leaderboards.It's a joke.

There would be no imbalance if there were no GCs. That's the only joke here, how a year has passed and the devs still won't remove GC restrictions. For what? For lore? Because they have a few precious GC achievements that they spent some time wrangling their spaghetti code to make and now that can't take it apart? What a freaking joke.

lol what maelstrom is this cause its not the one I'm in apparently? 50 to 70% win rates maybe if they played only single digit matches for the whole week. Idk about that bit about the flames not trying to win either they have recently become a bigger threat to maelstrom wins than adders currently are. I sit at around 35 to 40% first place win rate every week (all solo Q's, I dont have the patience to deal with party queues) with maelstrom which is pretty mediocre and I'm pretty sure I've seen flames reporting about the same win rate in this very thread. I do agree three way sucks though. Sieze proves this even more emphatically than previous modes.

If you look on the top 100 for the datacenter you will see a whole lot of mael with 50% or higher. The only ppl that hit up to 70% are on mael, though that might just be for individual servers and not the entire datacenter for weekly or monthly so it may be fewer games (though not single digits). All the adders floating around 25%-35%, with one or two ppl above 40%. The standings was what I was referring to btw. Flames seem to be in the middle with sporadic win % when looking at the top 100.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

There would be no imbalance if there were no GCs. That's the only joke here, how a year has passed and the devs still won't remove GC restrictions. For what? For lore? Because they have a few precious GC achievements that they spent some time wrangling their spaghetti code to make and now that can't take it apart? What a freaking joke.

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Well most ppl leveled the gc's up in 2013 and then did next to nothing with them, so they are really important. /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Farrell

If you look on the top 100 for the datacenter you will see a whole lot of mael with 50% or higher. The only ppl that hit up to 70% are on mael, though that might just be for individual servers and not the entire datacenter for weekly or monthly so it may be fewer games (though not single digits).

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I see what you mean now, I had the standings filtered for Diabolos instead of all servers on primal by mistake. Most of these names up there I dont recognize so I wonder what time of day they are playing cause Maelstrom sure as hell not dominant to that extent when I play in the late evenings/early early morning.

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Originally Posted by Farrell

Anybody playing pvp today? Literally every single game is just flames doing everything to help mael win. Every single game. Flames don't even try to win, they just there to make sure mael wins.And ppl wonder why most mael players have 50%-70% win rates on primal leaderboards.It's a joke.

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It's funny, I started playing about 5 hours after you posted this and it was a VERY different scene. We had to fight tooth and nail for every win, and Mael and Adders seemed to be win trading (obviously not, but it seemed that way.). Every match we were super paranoid that once we attacked someone the other would back attack us, but if we stayed in one spot, they'd both ignore one another and come for us instead. It was awful. People started up and rage quitting before the night ended, and ques died early... Seriously one of the worst PvP nights I've had. Still managed to win a couple, but damn we had to work for them.

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Originally Posted by Farrell

Literally every single game is just flames doing everything to help mael win. Every single game. Flames don't even try to win, they just there to make sure mael wins.

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Forgot to mention, I've only played 24 matches this week, so far, but I'm sitting at a 50% win rate (12 - 1st/ 7 - 2nd/ and 5 - 3rd.) So, I can tell you with certainty that we are definitely trying to win... at least when I'm on. It seems you play earlier than I even log on, though, so who knows? Maybe the early day Flames like to fail? I've only played a couple of day matches, and I know that the morning crowd were utter crap compared to the evening crowd, but I never saw any of them intentionally throw a match... have the stupid, "I'll settle for second" attitude, maybe, but never deliberately throw one in favour of another GC.

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Originally Posted by Farrell

Anybody playing pvp today? Literally every single game is just flames doing everything to help mael win. Every single game. Flames don't even try to win, they just there to make sure mael wins.

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The only 2 games I queue'd up for yesterday (queues were longer than normal, so I said 'forget it') I saw this exactly (Maelstrom btw). We literally had multiple downtimes in the match where Flames were completely invested in Adders and their tomeliths leaving us to wonder if we should get involved or watch (the map). I had to stop and consider what exactly Adders must have done to get Flames so utterly focused on them. Even helped us steal a win from Adders (they were literally @ 790) by rushing their tomelith instead of ours; effectively sandwiching them with no place to run.

It's been a while since I've seen one GC obviously having a personal vendetta with the other; that extends into more than one match. Up until yesterday, everything seemed about even.

All Adders and Maelstrom do is work against Flames, last week I had 36 3rd place wins, 24 2nd place wins and 3 1st place wins. We're not helping anyone because each time I go to fight Mael with my team, Adders just backdoor us. Every.Single.Time. And then most of us get pissed and just focus Adders. Alot of the good Flame players stop playing too so that doesn't help us at all.

This week its 5 3rd places and 1 2nd place. Pity points ftw or I wouldn't even bother getting pvp gear.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I had to stop and consider what exactly Adders must have done to get Flames so utterly focused on them. Even helped us steal a win from Adders (they were literally @ 790) by rushing their tomelith instead of ours; effectively sandwiching them with no place to run.

It's been a while since I've seen one GC obviously having a personal vendetta with the other; that extends into more than one match. Up until yesterday, everything seemed about even.

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Sometimes it's not so much a vendetta as it is they just won't let us leave.

About two days ago, Adders were being utterly obnoxious to Flames. We'd get into a fight, the nodes would die, we'd start to back off, but Adders would chase us. We'd stop and fight back and Adders would start to retreat themselves. So, we'd think it's safe to go and start pulling out again only to have Adder start to chase us all over again. Adders were so utterly focused on back attacking us the entire match that we literally couldn't turn our backs to them without having them suddenly pounce on us. It was pissing a lot of people off, and it happened 8 or 9 matches straight. I remember because pretty much the only things in the chat box those matches were: "we need to focus Mael!" immediately followed by "Adders incoming... again >.>" They went so far as to spawn camp us several times, and, at that point, I don't think there was a single player on the Flames side that wasn't utterly ticked off at Adders.

@Februs

You just described every single one of my games though.Two days ago? Howd you like that ten games in a row? Do you know how many games ive played this week where mael has 500-600 points and 2+ nodes and adders have 100 and flames run us all the way into our spawn? This is the sorriest excuse for pvp I have ever seen in a mmo. This is literal shit. No rating. No one even trying to win because of grudge matches and eso farming. 2v1 all game every game for someone (usually me). This is a miserable experience all around. I don't even see how mael isn't tired of it by now. No one ever gets a game.

Must be why we have this unwanted influx of people joining maelstrom now making our queues even worse than it was before.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Must be why we have this unwanted influx of people joining maelstrom now making our queues even worse than it was before.

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Yes, take Flame's bads. There's a lot more where that came from.

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Originally Posted by Farrell

@Februs

You just described every single one of my games though.Two days ago? Howd you like that ten games in a row?

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Yes, because 9 games is so much better... That's not the point though. I pointed out the occasion from two days ago because it stuck out in my mind due to the chat box at the time. If you somehow got the impression that this doesn't happen every single day than I'm sorry to disappoint you. It does. Adders are, BY FAR, the GC Flames are the most weary of. Mael seems to have stronger fighters and I've seen them throw a match to let Adders win as well, but Adders are consistently back attacking us to the point of being completely illogical. By comparison, Mael don't seem to chase quite as hard as adders.

That being said, this week Mael has actually been a bigger pain in our butts. In the matches I've lost, Adders have most often been the victor because of Mael's actions. However, I've seen it go both ways. Happens all the time. We just come to expect it now.

You've done a lot of finger pointing at Flames in this thread, but maybe you should try jumping the fence for a change. With my winning %, there is no way in hell that Flames are intentionally throwing matches over whatever grudge we might have with the snakes. I'd be willing to bet that you'll be in the exact same boat if you were a Flame as you are in now, only you'd be pointing your finger at Mael or Adders.

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Originally Posted by saintmanji

Yes, take Flame's bads. There's a lot more where that came from.

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I could use the speedier que times too... They've slowed down a bit in recent weeks...

I don't do frontlines as much anymore (usually just taking my roulette for the week to inch toward rank 50), but when I do, this is more-or-less the usual for me lately.

http://puu.sh/kwnq4/ca8644d1f1.png
http://puu.sh/kwnH1/9f1926243b.png
http://puu.sh/kwmMz/5149561766.png

You can click the second image to expnd its size to compare the check if you need.

I couldn't get a screenshot of it in time, but there was a node on the last defile center (D2) and maelstrom had it occupied for the entire time while hitting us from the west flank, you could compare the chat logs to see it was left uncontested and that flames were coming after our nodes (split pushing actually, so it was more or less feeding us points, but nevermind mind the fact that maelstrom middle was left uncontested).

And you can take my word that the fight went from Mael starting with 2 (1 A rank) node, adders went for their B rank while mael and flames faught for middle, followed by the next node spawns allowing flames to get sandwiched in (yay north spawn), and welp.

@Februs

Oh I am not very interested in playing much more seal rock once I hit 50. I am curious what times of the day you play? Do you play afternoons on the weekdays? I'm just curious.

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Originally Posted by Farrell

@Februs

Oh I am not very interested in playing much more seal rock once I hit 50. I am curious what times of the day you play? Do you play afternoons on the weekdays? I'm just curious.

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I feel ya, though not for the same reason. Having only one map and one game mode gets stale after a while, so once I hit 50 I'll probably take a break until they come out with something new... even a new map would do. Anything to freshen it up a little.

I usually play in the late evenings / early mornings, regardless of what day of the week it is. I don't even get home until after 9 most days. Based on the time you posted your frustrations over that match, it seems that I don't even log on until well after you've already been playing.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Snip.

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That chat box is pretty close to exactly what I read most of the time in the Flames box, only you just have to swap the names. "Fall back" / "Ignore Adders" / "Get out" followed by "Adders chasing" / "Adders inc" / "ADDERS!!!"

It seems the Adders and Flames just can't seem to let each other go. Most of the time, when we engage Mael the fight ends when the nodes die. There's this awkward moment where we kind of stand there, looking at each other like we're unsure, but we part ways and that's it. When we get into it with Adders, though, one of us always ends up chasing the other and the fights drag on past the point where it should have ended a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Februs

That chat box is pretty close to exactly what I read most of the time in the Flames box, only you just have to swap the names. "Fall back" / "Ignore Adders" / "Get out" followed by "Adders chasing" / "Adders inc" / "ADDERS!!!"

It seems the Adders and Flames just can't seem to let each other go. Most of the time, when we engage Mael the fight ends when the nodes die. There's this awkward moment where we kind of stand there, looking at each other like we're unsure, but we part ways and that's it. When we get into it with Adders, though, one of us always ends up chasing the other and the fights drag on past the point where it should have ended a long time ago.

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Yepppppp even on my data center I've seen a ton of this in the past week or two. Adders chasing us even when we're in last. Adders spawn camping us while Maelstrom sits back passing around the popcorn with 4 nodes and a 400 point lead. It gets to the point where we just make sure Adder doesn't win the game even once they actually start trying. We just go to every last Adder vs. Mael fight and focus yellows until they're obliterated, then camp their spawn if we're feeling especially douchey.

I've been in a few matches where a friend of mine who is in Adders was in the same match, and she said that basically it's the same on their end - people screaming on /a to leave Flames alone but the majority of the alliance just tuning it out.

Flames vs Mael, yeah we all tend to just blink at each other and go "well crap" when the nodes despawn, and go our separate ways.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

It gets to the point where we just make sure Adder doesn't win the game even once they actually start trying. We just go to every last Adder vs. Mael fight and focus yellows until they're obliterated, then camp their spawn if we're feeling especially douchey.

Flames vs Mael, yeah we all tend to just blink at each other and go "well crap" when the nodes despawn, and go our separate ways.

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I've never seen it get quit that bad. I don't think I've ever been part of a group that has actively spawn camped. However, I have been part of a group that has intentionally focused Adders because they harassed us to the point where we couldn't take it any more. Especially if it gets to the point where Mael is so far ahead we can't do anything about it.

Just played a round where RNG pretty much forced Adders and us together right off the bat (Adders and Mael both had 2 nodes each and Flames had nothing. Adders were closer Mael was on high ground). We fought over the Node. Adders kept it, but when we went to leave they got super aggressive and started chasing us. We had zero nodes from the very start of the match, and yet they wouldn't let us leave instead of attacking mael. Second set of Nodes and still not a single one on the Flames end of the map. Mael get two. Adders get one. Yet, adders were still chasing us. After two node sets of this, Mael had an over 500pt lead. Adders lost just as much fighting us as we gained, so we were about even, but there was no way we were gonna catch up to Mael. If Adders had, even once, switched to attacking mael than we might have been able to turn that around, but they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I've never seen it get quit that bad. I don't think I've ever been part of a group that has actively spawn camped. However, I have been part of a group that has intentionally focused Adders because they harassed us to the point where we couldn't take it any more. Especially if it gets to the point where Mael is so far ahead we can't do anything about it.

Just played a round where RNG pretty much forced Adders and us together right off the bat (Adders and Mael both had 2 nodes each and Flames had nothing. Adders were closer Mael was on high ground). We fought over the Node. Adders kept it, but when we went to leave they got super aggressive and started chasing us. We had zero nodes from the very start of the match, and yet they wouldn't let us leave instead of attacking mael. Second set of Nodes and still not a single one on the Flames end of the map. Mael get two. Adders get one. Yet, adders were still chasing us. After two node sets of this, Mael had an over 500pt lead. Adders lost just as much fighting us as we gained, so we were about even, but there was no way we were gonna catch up to Mael. If Adders had, even once, switched to attacking mael than we might have been able to turn that around, but they didn't.

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At the end of the day, you're blaming the adders for your loss. Your loss was your team's fault.
1. You couldn't win ONE node from a team that was holding TWO in the beginning.
2. At the next Spawn, you still didn't get a node, still due to range. So when this happened, Adders in pursuit notwithstanding, what was your teams plan? Go take a node from Mael?
3. If you were being followed, you should have been able to get the majority of your team away, even if being pursued. Could have ran them straight into the Mael and forced a 3-way battle. Turning around only allows your team to be easier picked off. So it sounds like your teams communication/strategy and/or experience was lacking. You also could have regrouped at spawn and pushed a node that way. Still, while there might have been some casualties, it is impossible to slaughter 24 people running away, unless they turn around and start fighting in the open/aren't actually the whole alliance etc. Furthermore, I seriously doubt the entire Adder team chased you.
4. What it likely looked like to the adders (keep in mind, we can't cross-communicate in here) is this:
- First round, you could have focused Mael or Adders, your team picked Adders. I get your reasons, but still end of the day, you picked on Adders and left mael uncontested.
-Second round, mael spawns might have been out of reach/far away for Adders to easily contest and since you all were slow to leave initial spawns, you were too close to the new spawn they held and a threat, meaning they felt they had to chase you off. So you got chased.
-It appeared to Adders it was the typical Flames> gunning for Adders causing mael to be up crap. (I think most of this on both sides is just poppy-cock).

But when you couldn't do the initial push, and then didn't get the hell out of there, THAT's what set in motion the rest of the battle+spawns that sound like they naturally worked in Mael favor. Not some wierd 'MUST KILL THE FLAMES! vandetta...actually, if you saw adder chat, we were likely getting pissy that we felt that we couldn't focus the winning Mael once again due to the Flames.

PS: Adders loose plenty of matches too. Flames win plenty of matches, and I've seen the flames tunnel vision on the Mael as much as they tunnel vision on the Adders. Typically whoever attacks you first in any match you will hut the rest of time. Adders typically are actively telling people to stop chasing the losing team/focus on defense and/or the winning team. So, sounds like you were squishy, took too long to get out of their nodes, and were very unsuccessful at your initial push...and far less like the Adders systematically decided to punish you.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

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Don't think you've been on the Primal servers PvP frontlines very much. 1/10 win ratio for every Flame player out there. Not including 24 man premades.

I can't agree more with the OP. Adders do play well and work as a team but Flames and Maels always team up against us. My wins are 2 out of 15 matches per week.

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Originally Posted by LordHadi

I can't agree more with the OP. Adders do play well and work as a team but Flames and Maels always team up against us. My wins are 2 out of 15 matches per week.

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No one is teaming up against you. Stop looking for excuses that aren't there for your losses. Its a three way fight, eventually someone is gonna get sandwiched because of node placements. Besides maelstrom starting to consider flames the bigger threat to victory than adders, at least during the evening hours, so why would we waste our time pointlessly double teaming the last place team?

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Don't think you've been on the Primal servers PvP frontlines very much. 1/10 win ratio for every Flame player out there. Not including 24 man premades.

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Seriously... you might want to check people's character info first or even look up the PvP rankings before you look dumb. And I don't have an awesome win rate, but I play plenty.

Still, maybe the Flames loose because as a team they make poor decisions. Blaming others won't make you better. It's a 3-way fight. Tunnel-visioning any one team is going to net you losses...simple as that. Not working together will net you losses, and not knowing how to counteract a push will net a loss. But there is no grand conspiracy against the Flames on Primal Data Centers. Adders share no love for the Maelstrom. Nor do they love the Flames. They just want to win. But some matches will either due to node spawns, or due to team stupidity seemingly pit 2 teams against each other for the majority of the match.

PS: While I only did 1 match today, Flames beat Adders by 20 points in it. Mael barely had 400 points by end. Mael got 3 nodes in a row (in caves) in beginning and got sandwiched by Flames/Adders. Flames pushed the Mael hard that first spawn and got 2 nodes from Mael, Adders stole one as well, guess who came around behind us (we were north spawn and were holding the node right near that spawn/top of caves)....oh that'd be the Flames. Did we decide to attack you the rest of the fight? No, other then when it was the logical choice. Did we curse you in chat? No. Did we think it was some grand conspiracy? NO.

All it was was Mael had a weak team. They got sandwiched, nodes spawned in South for much of the match (near Flames), and Flames worked together/stayed together when attacked to keep their nodes in tact. IE, they played will and had a bit of luck. That is how you win.

My friend happened to be in the Mael that same match, and came out bitching about getting sandwiched.

WE ALL GET SANDWICHED sometimes.
We all get needlessly camped sometimes.
We all get tunnel vision teams sometimes.

But your team losing is not another teams 'fault' or some grand master plan. It's simply, you didn't play as well/react as well to the changes as the other 2 teams did. Period.


PPS: If you still don't believe there is no grand conspiracy against the flames, good news. You can switch teams for 2 weeks and 'spy' on the alliance chat. You'll be sorely disappointed to learn that no one is systematically trying to keep you down...you all do that quite nicely to yourselves.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

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For your first point, I never said it wasn’t our fault. A loss is a loss. We couldn’t turn it around. I simply pointed out that Adders had an unusually strong desire to chase us the ENTIRE match, despite the fact that we didn’t even have a node for them to attack.

For your second and third points, you’ve got something quite wrong. I also never said that Adders got second, or won the fights they got themselves into. We failed to take the node, yes, but we took more points in kills than Adders did. Adders did not punish us. They destroyed themselves in a horrible fashion.

After the first node set, our game plan actually was to attack Mael come second node set. In fact, most of us actually did get all the way to the Mael node (save for the poor buggers who are too slow to realize the rest of the team left), but Adders followed us. When we reached the closest Mael node Adders rammed right into our backsides about 1 minute into fighting and preceded to sandwich us against Mael. They followed our team all the way across the map to do this. At that point we ended up trying to pull out because there was no way to take the Mael node with Adders chomping on our butts the entire time. The idea was to try to get Mael and adders to fight, but they only kind of bounced off each other and Adder kept on chasing us. Mael fell back and sat on their nodes, and Adders continued to chase us around the caves.

After this, Mael secured their point lead and the rest of the Flames were too pissed off to care anymore. So we said F it and went on the attack. I'm assuming Adders were ticked off because we had killed so many of them in the first charge, but that's not really an excuse to play like idiots.

Thing is though, I really couldn’t blame Adders for this, because they did worse than we did. By the end of the match, Adders pushed us so far away from their own spawn that, once the Flames finally gave up on trying to attack Mael, we completely obliterated the Adders and took second. This was also due to the fact that Mael, unlike Adders, let us leave when our attack failed. They didn’t chase and let us take care of the Adders who were on our bums (probably because they didn’t see a point in getting involved, but still. It was nice of them.) The points were close, but Adders didn’t even clinch second place because they just would not let us go. They lost more points trying to recklessly chase us around the map than they gained off of any node captures they had.

I also realize what it probably looked like to the Adders. I’ve been in the same spot with Adders or Mael attacking us right off the bat (though not usually with such completely unbalanced node spawns). However, when the nodes are dead, it’s time to leave. There’s always a few idiots who don’t get this, but it’s very rare to have an ENTIRE TEAM play with pure stupidity. Honestly, I feel more sympathy to the few Adders that were likely on their team who were desperately trying to get the rest of the group to stop acting like idiots and throwing the match. Especially considering that whenever the Flames actually stopped to defend themselves, the Adders would take a massive dip in points off of their deaths. You'd think weak players would act more cautiously, but the more they died, the more they chased. This kind of gameplay is silly no matter which GC is doing it.

The point is, and the same point I’ve made since this thread was started, is that it happens regardless of which side of the fence you’re on. Sometimes you just run into that extra special group of people who let it turn into a grudge match instead of going for the win. It’s absolutely idiotic to take a vendetta out against one specific team just because they attacked first, especially at the expense of letting the other team walk all over you. It happens, obviously, to all of the GC’s, but it’s rare to see it get so out of hand.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Don't think you've been on the Primal servers PvP frontlines very much. 1/10 win ratio for every Flame player out there. Not including 24 man premades.

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I don't know about this. I've never checked the numbers myself, but I'm rocking a 40% win rate this week, so far, and that's pretty standard for me. As far as I've personally seen, the three GC's are pretty even in terms of win/loss ratio.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

No one is teaming up against you. Stop looking for excuses that aren't there for your losses. Its a three way fight, eventually someone is gonna get sandwiched because of node placements. Besides maelstrom starting to consider flames the bigger threat to victory than adders, at least during the evening hours, so why would we waste our time pointlessly double teaming the last place team?

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This is exactly right. You're one of the few people I've seen in this thread acknowledge the fact that it happens three ways, and that it's not some grand conspiracy. Don't get me wrong, grudge cycling happens, but there's no lasting arrangements or never ending vendetta between two specific GC's.

As it happens, Mael has been surprisingly the bigger threat for Flames this week as well... We've had to keep a close eye on you reds lately...