Who here is also burned out from farming?

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Yeah it would be nice to see less dungeons and primals and more new ideas.

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No it wouldn't. Asking for new stuff is one thing but asking for a new system to replace the old is another. People who bought this game bought it for a reason, which certainly wasn't some unknown type of content that may or may not be implemented. It would be delusional to think the player base as a whole would be ok with losing any of the content they are used to.

As for the topic at hand, I'm not burned out in the slightest. In ARR I got to the point where I had seen all the content I planned to and just leveled alts before Heavensward, so I'm not even busy doing ARR stuff. Just perfectly happy with the game we have. If you guys are bored of the gear grind then why not, you know, stop grinding? There are other things to do than end game. Yet, if end game is all you want to do, there's also savage for those who find everything else a boring faceroll fest. This game has something for everyone: easy fast stuff for those with limited time and patience, easy but long grinds for those with more than average play time, and also hard content that takes a while to defeat for those who want to be challenged and find easy things and repetition boring. If nothing pleases you people, what do you want?

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

snippy.

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Think the whole point of this thread is that there are people who are tired of the same dungeons/roulette, 4 raids , primals, etc. ^^;

I do agree though, to an extent..the best way IS to let the sub run out...and don't come back until the game changes, if it doesn't, then don't come back. I know I am not coming back until they add some new gameplay/content/etc. I refuse to keep paying for the same patches reskinned..over and over.

1.23 was so much better, yes I went there lol. All my friends who asking if they should come back because they left due to the same rehashed content..heh..well, I told them no, don't bother, its STILL the same. >.<

Disclaimer: Salty Post.

They really should just close the game. On the Official Forums there is a ratio of 10:1 of complainers to people happily playing the game that currently exists. SE can do nothing because everytime something new comes out, a swath of "fans" come out asking "Well why isnt there X or Y"? SE literally gives us an Inch and the OF asks for a Mile. SE tells us of what is to come, lays out a plan of how they want to lay the foundation of this game in its early years, OF complains that "we didn't see this coming".

I was there in FFXI where communication was next to none with SE. I was there for Moblin Maze Mongers where players could make their own content and then run it; Hardly anyone used it (as far as the more official forums, Killing Ifrit, was concerned). I was there for Trials of the Magian, content that gave us solo, farm-to-oblivion path and a grouping-less-farm-focused path and people complained. I was there when SE would just throw stuff in the game and say "Deal with it".

Listen: All MMOs in existence are Grinds. If, at anytime, you play with your sights set on a specific goal and then do content over and over to reach that goal then that is a grind. We all did it in Single Player RPGs for farming random battles, and we all do it here. If you play League, Heroes, DOTA, Hearthstone, Destiny, Monster Hunter, Pokemon, Tales of (Series), then you will eventually grind on something. It doesn't matter if it's Monster carves for the next piece of gear, individual games for an overall online rank, Walking a path over and over to hatch a perfect IV Pokemon, or farm easy battles to XP, it's all grinding.

Don't take your personal frustration at the whole of gaming out on MMOs when it is just following the modus operandi. And don't delude yourself into thinking that this game would magically be ten times better if SE just threw more content in the game that people would just ignore. As of today, SE is methodically placing content in the game that people can all participate in. They are learning, it's slow, but they are learning:

Remember Turn 3 in First Coil? They never did that again.
Remember how we wanted a reason to run the old CT content (pre-3.0, now it kinda sucks lol)? They gave us a reason.
Remember how we wanted a fun storyline to follow? They brought back Hildibrand from 1.0 and made it awesome!
They didn't have to do it. They could have just thrown more dungeons at us and made gear with mostly useless stats on it to keep us sifting among it all finding what we think we want. Sure the streamline is boring because we can clearly see what helps our class and what doesn't.

They are learning, but they are also building a foundation at the same time. They lost a ton of money on 1.0 and they need to rebuild. We are in the rebuilding phase.

If you lose a house and are building another one do you jump right into making a killer game room? No, you start at the foundation, the material, the basic floor plan, and plot of land to build on, etc. 2.0 is the plot of land. 3.0 is the foundation. If we set aside the Present-focused internet entertainment rage, I am sure we can find something in this game that tells us that they have somewhat of a different plan for content for players of all types who play current mmos.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

While is is true that there is grind in every MMORPG (though blizzard managed to make it bearable in world of warcraft), few are the MMORPG that makes you grind several time the same content for different reasons. And that's what people are complaining about.

In 3.0 we had to farm the level 60 dungeons for both the ilvl 170 gear and the ilvl 200 gear. In 2.0 we had to farm fates for both leveling and getting a relic ... and the list goes on.

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Im not saying this game is perfect. Not at all.

But, Blizzard designed the early days of WoW with tons of gear and deception. But the acceptable kind. I remember leveling a druid (because I wanted to do all things), and encountering their sets of "Of the Monkey" and "Of the Tiger" and thinking that I need to collect the Tiger set because I wanted to use the cat form exclusively and the bear form in emergencies. The deceptive part came, when I learned that I had to run the instances where the gear dropped over and over until I not only got the piece I wanted, but also got the RNG rolls of stats that I wanted. The random nature made it "exciting" but only as far as keeping me playing, not as far as giving me what I wanted. Eventually I wound up out-leveling the content and no needing to ever pick up that pieces that I set out searching for. Great design in keeping me playing, bad design in letting me reach my goal. Here in FFXIV know what piece to look for because they created categories for classes, not for stat grouping with RNG.

Is it as exciting? Not really. Meh design in keeping me playing, good design in letting me reach my goal.

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Listen: All MMOs in existence are Grinds. If, at anytime, you play with your sights set on a specific goal and then do content over and over to reach that goal then that is a grind. We all did it in Single Player RPGs for farming random battles, and we all do it here. If you play League, Heroes, DOTA, Hearthstone, Destiny, Monster Hunter, Pokemon, Tales of (Series), then you will eventually grind on something. It doesn't matter if it's Monster carves for the next piece of gear, individual games for an overall online rank, Walking a path over and over to hatch a perfect IV Pokemon, or farm easy battles to XP, it's all grinding.

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While is is true that there is grind in every MMORPG (though blizzard managed to make it bearable in world of warcraft), few are the MMORPG that makes you grind several time the same content for different reasons. And that's what people are complaining about.

In 3.0 we had to farm the level 60 dungeons for both the ilvl 170 gear and the ilvl 200 gear. In 2.0 we had to farm fates for both leveling and getting a relic ... and the list goes on.

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But, Blizzard designed the early days of WoW with tons of gear and deception. But the acceptable kind. I remember leveling a druid (because I wanted to do all things), and encountering their sets of "Of the Monkey" and "Of the Tiger" and thinking that I need to collect the Tiger set because I wanted to use the cat form exclusively and the bear form in emergencies. The deceptive part came, when I learned that I had to run the instances where the gear dropped over and over until I not only got the piece I wanted, but also got the RNG rolls of stats that I wanted. The random nature made it "exciting" but only as far as keeping me playing, not as far as giving me what I wanted. Eventually I wound up out-leveling the content and no needing to ever pick up that pieces that I set out searching for. Great design in keeping me playing, bad design in letting me reach my goal. Here in FFXIV know what piece to look for because they created categories for classes, not for stat grouping with no RNG.

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If you can't see that FFXIV's system is wow system for leveling gear (because what you re talking about is leveling gear, there was no RNG in endgame gear stats before WoD), with less stats variety (because one class=one type of gear, in wow 1 class = potentially 3 set of different gears), then you obviously didn't play wow enough.

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I do agree though, to an extent..the best way IS to let the sub run out...and don't come back until the game changes, if it doesn't, then don't come back. I know I am not coming back until they add some new gameplay/content/etc. I refuse to keep paying for the same patches reskinned..over and over.

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But you're gonna sink your money into some other reskinned game anyways.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

While is is true that there is grind in every MMORPG (though blizzard managed to make it bearable in world of warcraft), few are the MMORPG that makes you grind several time the same content for different reasons. And that's what people are complaining about.

In 3.0 we had to farm the level 60 dungeons for both the ilvl 170 gear and the ilvl 200 gear. In 2.0 we had to farm fates for both leveling and getting a relic ... and the list goes on.



If you can't see that FFXIV's system is wow system for leveling gear (because what you re talking about is leveling gear, there was no RNG in endgame gear stats before WoD), with less stats variety (because one class=one type of gear, in wow 1 class = potentially 3 set of different gears), then you obviously didn't play wow enough.

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What i meant to say is that WoWs item grind was a bit worse because you fought RNG on seeing the loot as well as RNG on the Stats because it had too much variance. This was done on purpose to keep people doing the content. As opposed to here where there is little variance on stats because it's tightly grouped for stats per job. As a result the gear is more boring here but better in the end because you as a player know what you are getting and that it is helping you. For example you won't find two Shadow Bow's with differing stats on DEX. So after you get one, you are effectively done. This discourages grinding, but its more boring. Example #2 that favors grinding behind the veil of "it could be better" (and is more exciting upfront): Diablo 3 and to an extent old school wow (i don't know if its the same today).

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Originally Posted by Xairos

Listen: All MMOs in existence are Grinds. If, at anytime, you play with your sights set on a specific goal and then do content over and over to reach that goal then that is a grind.

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The problem is that it needs to be made an acceptable grind. Something with a goal at the end. And here there just isnt. Why is it that I've gone through a 24 hour grind in RO (start of a new server event), but can barely grind an hour or two of favors here?
Because there is no goal at the end.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

If you play League, Heroes, DOTA, Hearthstone, Destiny, Monster Hunter, Pokemon, Tales of (Series), then you will eventually grind on something.

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Heroes of the Storm, DOTA, Hearthstone; none of these are MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

And don't delude yourself into thinking that this game would magically be ten times better if SE just threw more content in the game that people would just ignore. As of today, SE is methodically placing content in the game that people can all participate in.

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Which in turn lowers the quality of the game a great deal.

What do you think singleplayer FF games would be like if it had to be enjoyable by those that dont like RPG games? By those that only play one game every 6 months? By those that dont enjoy fantasy or scifi?

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Originally Posted by Xairos

They didn't have to do it.

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This is a sub based MMO, not a F2P. They do have to.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

They lost a ton of money on 1.0 and they need to rebuild.

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Poor marketing, early release. They could have made a better game by simply developing it for 2 years more.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

I remember leveling a druid (because I wanted to do all things), and encountering their sets of "Of the Monkey" and "Of the Tiger" and thinking that I need to collect the Tiger set because I wanted to use the cat form exclusively and the bear form in emergencies.

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I'm sorry to read about your experience as someone new to RPGs. We were all new to them at some point.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

This was done on purpose to keep people doing the content.

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No it was done to make the items and stats more interesting. Not a ''ilvl says all, thats good! Because otherwise I wouldnt understand it''

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Originally Posted by Xairos

What i meant to say is that WoWs item grind was a bit worse because you fought RNG on seeing the loot as well as RNG on the Stats because it had too much variance. This was done on purpose to keep people doing the content. As opposed to here where there is little variance on stats because it's tightly grouped for stats per job. As a result the gear is more boring here but better in the end because you as a player know what you are getting and that it is helping you. For example you won't find two Shadow Bow's with differing stats on DEX. So after you get one, you are effectively done. This discourages grinding, but its more boring. Example #2 that favors grinding behind the veil of "it could be better" (and is more exciting upfront): Diablo 3 and to an extent old school wow (i don't know if its the same today).

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The gear you re talking about is leveling gear. There were no random stats on relevant gear (eg dungeons drops after a certain level and raids) from vanilla wow to WoD. In WoD stats RNG came in for some gear but only does apply to secondary stats.

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Originally Posted by SethCypher

But you're gonna sink your money into some other reskinned game anyways.

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How do you know that? You don't even know me LOL

I was planning on spending it on reality..lol. No more games. Soo..no?

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Subjectivity is the opposite of objective, which refers to things that are more clear-cut. That Earth has one moon is objective — it's a fact. Whether the moon is pretty or not is subjective — not everyone will agree. Facts are objective, but opinions are subjective

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Whether or not a grind is acceptable is subjective. Do I want to try to Dodge Lightning 200 times for a weapon so I can do more damage to optional endgame bosses? Depends on you. Do I want to run a dungeon 20 times for tomes for gear that makes it easier for me to run dungeons to get more gear...? Depends on you. I agree with you on the fact that it's SE job to lie to us in a pleasant way and make the Grind Acceptable.

I can't even.... and for some of those I was talking about Gaming and grinding as a whole not just grinding as mmos are concerned. If you want to get Ranks in some of those games, its a Grind. or a Farm, or w/e. Look at the design choices from a developers standpoint not just as a gamer. You kept playing for gear with RNG stats because you think you can get better rolls. That's why its designed like that. Don't let the frustration of FFXIV cloud your thinking. SE chose to go with what was in FFXI and take RNG off gear, that makes it a bit boring, but it gets us to our goal a lot faster. You are right about 1.0, maybe, but they didn't try to make a better game, it was rushed, and it failed, financially. Regardless, SE still needed (and wanted) to rebuild. It doesn't change the fact that we are currently in their rebuilding attempt.

And as far as presentation, First impressions in gaming are huge. Very huge. So much so, that even with this current "Easy as pie" model we have in FFXIV people still are confused about what stats to emphasize and what secondary stats they should go for on their gear for their class.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The gear you re talking about is leveling gear. There were no random stats on relevant gear (eg dungeons drops after a certain level and raids) from vanilla wow to WoD. In WoD stats RNG came in for some gear but only does apply to secondary stats.

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Yeah, you might be right. I never saw end game gear. I got to level 86, i think. My ultimate point (in an attempt to not split hairs on what part of the game has the randomized stats on gear) is that Randomized Stats on Gear seems fun on the surface. Heck, while leveling, it IS fun. Each piece is unique and special and different. Objectively, it keeps you thinking: "IS this the best rolls I could have gotten?" and "Maybe I can get better if I do a few more runs" or you might not care at all and just go with what you got, which in turn, begs the question, why even have it all?

Is the goal the gear or the feeling?

Here is where Subjectivity can no longer be questioned. If your goal is to feel, then weird stats and worthless pieces are brilliant. If your goal is to upgrade and be at the best you can be, then to get rid of the worthless drops is better. Its a fork in the road for your gaming style. It seems like for many in this thread the fault with FFXIV (and current MMO trends) is that the game design gets us to our goal too cleanly and to clearly. It doesn't lie to us, it doesn't cloud the path, it just lays it out there and lets us choose if it's worth our time doing.

Anecdote: I used to play Magic: The Gathering. I started out just like many other players: I got a starter deck with all it's (objectively) horrible cards. But I didn't really know any better. So I had tons of fun learning the rules and seeing the awesome artwork on each of the cards. From there I, rightfully so, started to move into buying Booster Packs. Here is where things started split in my mind. Subjectively, Booster Packs are amazing! They are like the sweetest drug known to man. Objectively, they are the spawn of evil and the absolute worst way to get into deck-building and playing the game. The ratio of getting cards that are good and cards that you will need are abysmal and I was better off buying singles and trading for what I wanted as opposed to booster packs.

But.. it wasn't as much fun. So I had to make a choice. Go the fun route and lie to myself as far as efficiency was concerned, or go the effective route and get to making decks and putting my brain to work at the strategy of the game. IT was tough, but now I buy a pack maybe once or twice a year.

They can't change up the flow of this game overnight. Nor will they. They have declared (so far) that they dont want to cloud or hide the grind in this game (except for Red Scrips) as far as gear and Ilevels are concerned. Now we all have decisions to make. Will we favor the lie and the obfuscations of the past for the sake of making us feel like we are accomplishing something, or will we actually (as far as the limitations of the game we play) accomplish something even though the path is easy and laid out for us?

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Originally Posted by Xairos

Whether or not a grind is acceptable is subjective. Do I want to try to Dodge Lightning 200 times for a weapon so I can do more damage to optional endgame bosses? Depends on you. Do I want to run a dungeon 20 times for tomes for gear that makes it easier for me to run dungeons to get more gear...? Depends on you. I agree with you on the face that it's SE job to lie to us in a pleasant way and make the Grind Acceptable.

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I will assume you typed that wrong, as I can't seem to find where I wrote that quote. I don't think I would write that either, it's entirely too low level for me. Everything perceivable by human perception is subjective, after all.


What my perception is telling me is that you are writing an entire page long story about subjectivity while trying to conceal your lack of an argument.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

I will assume you typed that wrong, as I can't seem to find where I wrote that quote. I don't think I would write that either, it's entirely too low level for me. Everything perceivable by human perception is subjective, after all.


What my perception is telling me is that you are writing an entire page long story about subjectivity while trying to conceal your lack of an argument.

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You didn't but you were full of subjectivity. So nothing is Objective? hmmmm, OK. Then there is no argument if there is no objectivity.

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Your not really one to talk. Also this game has not been out for 2 years

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How am I not one to talk?
If you read the signature. This my sister's character.
I've been here since Phase 3 of this game. Even if you are new, you can go to 2.0 then 3.0 and see it's the same thing
you did before. Problem is us Vet's have been slowly treading with it for too long.

And you're right, the game, well phase 3 for me, has been out for 2 years, a month and some days.
Thanks for correcting me! Oh wait, it's been out for 4-5 right? Since 1.0.
You guys say stuff for the sake of arguments.
Yeah let's not pull straws here.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

1.23 was so much better, yes I went there lol. All my friends who asking if they should come back because they left due to the same rehashed content..heh..well, I told them no, don't bother, its STILL the same. >.<

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1.18 -> 1.23
2 dungeons (1.18) -> 1 primal (1.19) -> 1 primal (1.20) -> 2 dungeons (1.21) -> 1 primal (1.22) -> 1 trial (1.23)
Don't see much different then the ARR patch pattern.
At least in ARR we get new dungeons with every patch and not with every 3rd patch.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

How am I not one to talk?
If you read the signature. This my sister's character.
I've been here since Phase 3 of this game. Even if you are new, you can go to 2.0 then 3.0 and see it's the same thing
you did before. Problem is us Vet's have been slowly treading with it for too long.

And you're right, the game, well phase 3 for me, has been out for 2 years, a month and some days.
Thanks for correcting me! Oh wait, it's been out for 4-5 right? Since 1.0.
You guys say stuff for the sake of arguments.
Yeah let's not pull straws here.

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You don't have a signature lol or at least i can't see it second 1.0 don't count it's not the same game at all and last why do you always get upset so fast? you need to relax. And big deal your a vet we are all vets so? complaining everyday that your bored starts to get old {not saying you do but general} it's not like SE will pull this game down and re do everything for players that burn them self out after a months time

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

You don't have a signature lol or at least i can't see it second 1.0 don't count it's not the same game at all and last why do you always get upset so fast? you need to relax. And big deal your a vet we are all vets so? complaining everyday that your bored starts to get old {not saying you do but general} it's not like SE will pull this game down and re do everything for players that burn them self out after a months time

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I kinda can't help but get upset when you [yes you in specific.]come onto posts talking crap to people all the time or even read. In previous or similar posts around this topic you have
either been really rude or sarcastic. The reason why everyone's saying something is because we care about this game, and don't want it to fall under the 'same ol, same ol' routine.'
We help try to make this game better, this is why we gave a forum, to discuss our concerns and our problems.

What you could do is ignore these topics because people are literally banging their heads against to wall into a discussion just for them to knock the other side down.
This game won't get anywhere if people constantly Knight up against this. No, 2 dungeons and a raid and a primal you have to pray to God gets going in a PF isn't fun
to again over and over until your eyes bleed.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnd again, no one said they want SE to re-do the entire game.
This is exactly how I mean. I think you guys gloss over some things just to get on our nerves.

Variety. This game has no variety at the endgame. You are forced to save points(Esoterics) and Alex tokens to gear out one specific main job you have yet, when you do this, you have nothing to do with that 1 main that is geared out the most. Ravana Ex is the last challenge before you either do Alex Savage or just stop logging off for the week. I capped Esoterics on Thursday, got all my Alex EZ drops on Tuesday. There is literally nothing else for me to do at level 60 with my main. The most excitement I get on FFXIV after Wednesday is seeing if I can get 10,000 MGP on my daily scratchers. I've been keeping a close eye on the PF here on Cactuar and it is depressingly dead. I'm REALLY hoping for some variety soon or I no longer see myself subscribing to this game. Which is sad cause I think this is an amazing game.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

I kinda can't help but get upset when you [yes you in specific.]come onto posts talking crap to people all the time or even read. In previous or similar posts around this topic you have
either been really rude or sarcastic

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By the fact i don't always agree with ppl? Yea okkkk take a long hard look at yourself you always come off upset or defensive every time ppl disagree with you you your self are very rude at times. Oh but wait i don't go out of my way to read all of your post since i really can care less about you but nice try. Why do you post on your sisters account? maybe you your self got banned for posting?

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Originally Posted by Felis

1.18 -> 1.23
2 dungeons (1.18) -> 1 primal (1.19) -> 1 primal (1.20) -> 2 dungeons (1.21) -> 1 primal (1.22) -> 1 trial (1.23)
Don't see much different then the ARR patch pattern.
At least in ARR we get new dungeons with every patch and not with every 3rd patch.

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What was different was the gear. There was no ilvl, it was more about character progression then gear.

Also...we could be social. The battle system was different...we...we could actually talk while playing without voice or macros!! It was amazing!

Reputation was a thing in the game! It was meaningful to play, when you got something done it truly felt like an accomplishment for a game. I remember seeing relics and freaking out in 1.0. It had. horizontal progression. And yea, you do have a point, that should have been a red flag....

It became quite prominent by now that this game is the same thing over and over and over. Wait...wait. You forgot SKIRMISH which was DIFFERENT and....HAMLET ANNND Chocobo Caravan, you forgot the NM system too! You had an AI system too for regular monsters. They didn't feel so brainless. Why did you leave out these things..lol. All of this variety was removed. And for why?

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Originally Posted by DukeBurden

Variety. This game has no variety at the endgame. You are forced to save points(Esoterics) and Alex tokens to gear out one specific main job you have yet, when you do this, you have nothing to do with that 1 main that is geared out the most. Ravana Ex is the last challenge before you either do Alex Savage or just stop logging off for the week. I capped Esoterics on Thursday, got all my Alex EZ drops on Tuesday. There is literally nothing else for me to do at level 60 with my main. The most excitement I get on FFXIV after Wednesday is seeing if I can get 10,000 MGP on my daily scratchers. I've been keeping a close eye on the PF here on Cactuar and it is depressingly dead. I'm REALLY hoping for some variety soon or I no longer see myself subscribing to this game. Which is sad cause I think this is an amazing game.

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I hear you on this. Honestly it can't come soon enough. This game truly does have potential to be a lot of fun, but not when they keep doing this over n over again.

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

By the fact i don't always agree with ppl? Yea okkkk take a long hard look at yourself you always come off upset or defensive every time ppl disagree with you you your self are very rude at times. Oh but wait i don't go out of my way to read all of your post since i really can care less about you but nice try.

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You can disagree, agree or whatever you want. But acting like a 5 year old and saying stuff like 'aww, u wanna cookie?' is rude and childish.
It's not that hard to find you in similar posts knocking down people, dear.
Your text stands out, and I had pretty good memory of people on the forums lol.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

What was different was the gear. There was no ilvl, it was more about character progression then gear.

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If you had the choice to get a green (normal dungeon gear) or a blue gear (DL gear) from Cutters Cry, which one would you want?
Just because there was no ilevel written in the gear info don't mean that there was not one in form of the amount of stats.
Another example: Ifrit weapon versus Garuda weapon. Both were for level 50, and still a Garuda weapon was much better than a Ifrit weapon because of the higher dps stat.
Gear progession was not horizontal in 1.0 . Maybe not so much vertical like in ARR, a bit more diagonal, but not a single bit horizontal.

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Also...we could be social. The battle system was different...we...we could actually talk while playing without voice or macros!! It was amazing!

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Not before auto-attack got implemented.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

You can disagree, agree or whatever you want. But acting like a 5 year old and saying stuff like 'aww, u wanna cookie?' is rude and childish.
It's not that hard to find you in similar posts knocking down people, dear.
Your text stands out, and I had pretty good memory of people on the forums lol.

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And finding you is easy as well dear all i have to do is enter a post about about how this games bad and they you are :P. Honestly though i really don't wanna wast my day arguing with someone that uses there sisters account to be rude. So back on topic ppl dis like things move on

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Originally Posted by Felis

snip

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There was crafted gear too, melds and material had stats that made the game feel way more horizontal then it does now. There was gear that came from strongholds that was good, that came from farming keys and coffers in a group. :)

It felt very horizontal to me in the sense that I had different sets for different things. Due to the elemental wheel, I had melded crafted gear depending on what I was doing. I had an AOE fire set for CC, I had thunder melds for Garuda, etc.

There was just a lot more variety and choices in 1.0 then now, and to me its strange how they took it all away. Regardless, I won't be playing this game anymore until they change it, if ever. Needs more variety!

As for the talking, I always could be social in 1.0, it was so easy..lol. The battle system was a lot slower.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

There was crafted gear too, melds and material had stats that made the game feel way more horizontal then it does now. There was gear that came from strongholds that was good, that came from farming keys and coffers in a group. :)...

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There are many way to add horizontal progression (while still allowing vertical progression).

Additional skills (that can't be used in raids) that synergize with one another. Said skills can have specific MP/TP(/even HP) cost so you need to adjust your gearing (not just attribute but special properties like reduce TP/MP for certain abilities or even on used functions) and character attribute allocation according to which skills you have picked - of course you can't pick them all; you can learn them all but you can't have them all usable at once.

Where is the vertical part? Newer skills can obsolete older ones - either by being a straight replacement or a different but better alternative. Gear can always be better

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Honestly though i really don't wanna wast my day arguing with someone that uses there sisters account to be rude.

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That's a good way to get his sister banned also.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

The gear you re talking about is leveling gear. There were no random stats on relevant gear (eg dungeons drops after a certain level and raids) from vanilla wow to WoD. In WoD stats RNG came in for some gear but only does apply to secondary stats.

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Raid gear (as well as heroic dungeon loot, world boss loot, and garrison loot) in WoD has random tertiary stats on them, random gem sockets and whether or not it ends up warforged for increased stats (this applies to primary stats as well) is also random. This applies to both regular loot and tier tokens. RNG plays a significant role.

I get your point, but just wanted to point out that RNG in WoD is pretty huge and while out of those only the Warforged RNG increases primary stats, secondaries play a much bigger role in WoW than than they do in XIV.

We truly need more content and not getting presented by tiny updates all the time. If it didnt take so fast to level our jobs from 50-60 the game would have been alot more enjoyable. Rushing or no Rushing you cant punish a person for devoting time to this game and praise someone who does not have time or just slacks. Ofcourse it shouldnt be like if you are new you can never catch up but adding vertical progression content only will slowly burn everyone out cause you can barely enjoy any new gears before new stuff pops up making your devoted time. Just look what they did to the relic. Yoshi P pretty much disrespected all players that put time in and did the horrible dungeon grind by letting everyone else get the relic almost for free. Was it so hard to just leave something enjoyable as a grind and just let it be there? This is one of many examples new relic quest or not its a complete disrespect to everyone who dedicated time to the relic and put in so much gil into it.

Man, it hit me hard how I am doing the same shit I did previously. My hype to login everyday died last night.

I don't understand why people can't discuss normally there no need to attack your fellow adventurer just because you don't agree with certain things. Yoshi P wants this game to reach out to as many people as possible so us longtime veteran SE supporters that came here from FFXI are speaking our minds. It shouldnt be a problem just because you can't understand where we came from.

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

Man, it hit me hard how I am doing the same shit I did previously. My hype to login everyday died last night.

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Seems like every day I see more and more people comin to this conclusion. Can't say I blame you...

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

Man, it hit me hard how I am doing the same shit I did previously. My hype to login everyday died last night.

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Same here, luckily I realized that before my subscription was up for renewal. After the story there was just nothing fun to do. More of the same old. Here I'm hoping a future update will fix things, but I had that same hope for Heavensward and got disappointed.

Ok so Ive read all replies:
1. Easy content makes game too boring because you wind up having nothing to do.
2. Vertical progression is ok but its not presented correctly.
3. We understand that if its not broke dont fix it mentality but its ruining alot of endgame players gaming experience wich it shouldnt.
4. There is no need for handouts shape the player dont shape your game after the player.
5. Personal opinion on something. Yoshi P messed up the relics so hard. Disrespected everyone that spent countless of million gil on their relics. I have 7 relics it took forever to get these. I spent countless hours getting gil to be able to afford my materias for the relic and this is how I get repaid? Everyone can get the relic for half the effort? Really? like are you serious right now Yoshi P? Also the countless timesink on the dungeons for the books lights mahatma lights and relic drops.

I'm fine with expert roulette, but I agree they really need to have more than 2 dungeons in it.
But maybe I'm only fine with eso because red scrips and favors destroyed my sanity ヘ（゜◇、゜）ノ

Just got my esoteric weapon and Alexander loot for the only class i'll be playing.

I'm already out of things to do this week except logging in for raids.

Capping esoterics is a given, but it isn't something i'd say substantial to do.

God dammit.

I don't mind the two expert since they are easy. Making a grind easy feels lighter in my mind. I'd hate to have to many dungeons then having that one you dislike in random queue. Other than that yes things are starting to take a slight toll in the grind wheel. But that's how mmo's are like. When I want a challenge raids is where It should be, any grind since we have to do It more should be slightly carefree. But that's just me....

I am very burned out from farming to the point where I have given up worrying about keeping my combat class up to date. Its been 2 years of the "Repeat dungeons to cap tomestones for gear" routine and I am quite frankly done with that. I am not going to come home every day feeling like I have to get my roulettes done which is 1-2 hours of stuff that I REALLY don't want to do. I have moved primarily to crafting/gathering now, but the scrips and weekly caps there have made that feel like a major job as well. Its really spending 80% of my in game time doing stuff I really don't want to do, but I do because that's just how the system is. Currently my motivation is to try and make some gil so hopefully my small FC can afford a house when(IF???) they open up new housing wards. But seeing that housing has been disappointing me since it was first announced, I assume it will be another case of me doing something for weeks/months and then realizing it was all for nothing. There are so many great games out that every day I keep wondering why I keep myself subbed to this so I can just spend my time farming endlessly till the next farm reset.

Bottom line, SE you really gotta come up with a new theme to this game. This weekly tome capping that gets reset every other patch thing has gotten EXTREMELY stale.

Pooky: You get that when the game director came from WoW and DAoC pretty much. I'm not saying that out of a disrespect but he is not objective. I can almost bet the 300m gil that I have on my character that he is trying hard to get the WoW market gamers to FFXIV its working for now since the WoW people need the envoirmental change. When Blizzard releases their new MMORPG FFXIV will get pretty empty and its just us Legacy players here some FFXI players and some I guess who like FFXIV that will remain.
This marketing plan is paying the bills ALOT its working and is generating an insane cash flow. Question is how far are you willing to go with just focusing on subscribers and killing the actually heart and gameplay that makes FFXIV so special?
I dont mind the grind I just dont want to be punished for grinding I want to be rewarded. I don't appreciate that its so little content in here aswell. Actually the content wouldnt be little if the game wasnt so easy to complete and finish.

All FFXIV is . Is a gear grinding game. You grind the best gear to have it replaced in 6 months . Thats all it is . I so wish that the gear ment something like in 11. There were BiS pieces that were like Lv.20 and you are LV.75 before Abyssa. You found or poped high level monsters in hopes for the gear. I have seen what 5 different sones for gear now each being replaced by the new. It gets really old really fast

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

When Blizzard releases their new MMORPG FFXIV will get pretty empty and its just us Legacy players here some FFXI players and some I guess who like FFXIV that will remain.

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We should have an idea this weekend when Blizzard announces there new xpac and "around about" release date how many stay, leave, or the # of new subs

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Originally Posted by DarkRain

All FFXIV is . Is a gear grinding game. You grind the best gear to have it replaced in 6 months . Thats all it is . I so wish that the gear ment something like in 11. There were BiS pieces that were like Lv.20 and you are LV.75 before Abyssa. You found or poped high level monsters in hopes for the gear. I have seen what 5 different sones for gear now each being replaced by the new. It gets really old really fast

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It doesnt help that you acquire esoterics the exact same way you get law. The most boring way possible, daily neverreaps. I don't think it's the grind that isn't fun. It's just the way you grind for things isn't fun. The dungeons just arent fun when your item lvl 190, they are monotonous. They were fun at ilvl 150 but not at ilvl 190. Alexander normal being geared towards minimum i170 is great, they just needed stuff that was minimum ilvl 180 for the esoterics i think.